All Teachers Fired at Underperforming School in Rhode Island

[editec]

Kudos to the Board.

Fire 'em all!

Hire 'em back one at a time as they prove themselves worthy of the job description...;teach our children what ever it is your were hired to teach...or get out of our way! Teaching should be performance based, not union protected, The teacher's union does more damage to our educational system than any other source.

Of course, the problem is determining a teacher's proformance.

It isn't like they're working with widget's ya' know.

Each student is different, each class of students also different.

Given that, what metric do we use to evaluate any individual teacher's efficacy?

A teacher can know his or her area of expertise very well, and still not be a good teacher.

Any time any professional's task is to work with the general public we find we have the same problem.

Our evaluation of them pretty much has to be entire SUBJECTIVE, as there no objective way to measure their efficacy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Kudos to the Board.

Fire 'em all!

Hire 'em back one at a time as they prove themselves worthy of the job description...;teach our children what ever it is your were hired to teach...or get out of our way! Teaching should be performance based, not union protected, The teacher's union does more damage to our educational system than any other source.

Of course, the problem is determining a teacher's proformance.

It isn't like they're working with widget's ya' know.

Each student is different, each class of students also different.

Given that, what metric do we use to evaluate any individual teacher's efficacy?

A teacher can know his or her area of expertise very well, and still not be a good teacher.

Any time any professional's task is to work with the general public we find we have the same problem.

Our evaluation of them pretty much has to be entire SUBJECTIVE, as there no objective way to measure their efficacy.

Actually, there is just such a metric.

"Modern statistical techniques allow researchers to measure a teacher's independent contribution to his students' learning. These techniques are not perfect, but they do raise red flags. We should use them, says Winters.

But even the best information about teacher quality is unhelpful if school systems can't act upon it. The iron-clad job protections of tenure ensure that a teacher remains on the payroll no matter how ineffective he is in the classroom, says Winters:

In 2007, only 10 of the 55,000 tenured teachers in New York City were fired for any reason.
Principals denied tenure to only 2 percent of New York teachers who were eligible to receive it last year.
Believe it or not, that's actually an improvement -- only 25 of Gotham's 6,250 eligible teachers (0.4 percent) were denied tenure in 2006.

If tenure is to exist at all, it should be treated as a privilege, not a right. Principals need to scrutinize which teachers do and don't deserve tenure, and the school system should hold accountable those school leaders who don't take that responsibility seriously. And no teacher should be immune from the consequences of poor performance, no matter how long he has been in the classroom, says Winters. "

Source: Marcus Winters, "How Tests Can Identify the Inept," New York Times, February 24, 2010.
For text:
Getting Rid of Bad Teachers - Room for Debate Blog - NYTimes.com


This statistical correlation is a basis for the "Race to the Top" bonus system of the Obama Administration.

I don't want to miss an opportunity to beat the terminated equus that I have been trumpeting on this board: it is only partially the teachers: it is mainly the flawed 'progressive education' that fails to inspire students.

 

[editec]

Modern statistical techniques allow researchers to measure a teacher's independent contribution to his students' learning. These techniques are not perfect, but they do raise red flags. We should use them, says Winters.

Who is Winters and what "statistical techiques" is he using, exactly?

I'd dearly love to see that statistical system in greater detail.

Can you direct me to it?

I taught too long and to too wildly different types of students to take that statement at face value.

No offense directed at you of course, PC, but I'm very dubious.

 

[antagon]

the knee-jerk response is to splash blame on teachers, students and parents. if these participants are taken as constants within demographics, shouldnt the system itself adjust to produce an acceptable outcome?...given 20-30, perhaps more years?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Modern statistical techniques allow researchers to measure a teacher's independent contribution to his students' learning. These techniques are not perfect, but they do raise red flags. We should use them, says Winters.

Who is Winters and what "statistical techiques" is he using, exactly?

I'd dearly love to see that statistical system in greater detail.

Can you direct me to it?

I taught too long and to too wildly different types of students to take that statement at face value.

No offense directed at you of course, PC, but I'm very dubious.

No offense taken, ever. Perfectly legit query. As a Conservative, I firmly believe in data informing policy.

Marcus A. Winters, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, conducts research and writes about education policy, including such topics as school choice, high school graduation rates, accountability, and special education.

This, from my files, was about the UFT using its political clout to block such linkage, so there must exist such software or ability.

"Standardized tests produce rich sources of information that researchers can use to identify effective policies and practices. The data revolution, moreover, promises to move education policy away from politics. Numbers don’t have agendas or run for reelection. Accurately collected and properly analyzed, data can reveal truths that escape our sight.

One such truth is the effectiveness of individual teachers. Data analysis is far from perfect, and no one argues that it should be used in isolation to make employment decisions. But modern techniques can help us distinguish between teachers whose students excel and teachers whose students languish or fail. There’s just one problem with the data revolution: it doesn’t work without data.

New York has deliberately refused to take that step. The state already has a sophisticated system for tracking student progress, but it doesn’t allow this statewide data set to match students to their teachers. No technical or administrative factors prevent the state from doing so. Only political obstacles stand in the way."
Teachers’ Unions vs. Progress—Again by Marcus A. Winters, City Journal 14 December 2009

"According to the related regulations that the president is scheduled to unveil at the Department of Education on Friday, states will not be eligible for the funds at all if they have any legal or regulatory barrier preventing the use of student achievement data from being used to evaluate teachers and principals."http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124838467837976975.html

And this to indicate that not using data, which must be widely available since it is a basis for the "Race To The Top" awards, would block the awards.

"The Education Department on July 24 released draft guidelines for the Race to the Top fund, $4.35 billion in grants to improve America's schools. This is the largest pot of discretionary funds ever made available to the department, and a centerpiece of President Obama's education reform efforts. During a teleconference on the day of the release, Secretary Arne Duncan called Race to the Top an opportunity to turn islands of excellence into systems of excellence.

According to the guidelines, however, states that prohibit linking student achievement data to teacher and principal evaluation will not be eligible to apply."
National Journal Online -- Education Experts -- Are The 'Race To The Top' Requirements Fair?

"...love to see that statistical system in greater detail..."
News reports don't seem to provide that level of detail. Sorry.

BTW, within the last month, the mayor of NYC directed that the data be used for tenure decisions.

 

[PoliticalChic]

the knee-jerk response is to splash blame on teachers, students and parents. if these participants are taken as constants within demographics, shouldnt the system itself adjust to produce an acceptable outcome?...given 20-30, perhaps more years?

First, the 20-30 year timeline if far too optimistic. The James S. Coleman 737-page report, with more than 150,000 students in the sample, on the effects of inputs on educational outcomes said the following: ‘inputs’ had relatively little bearing on school results- and that pupil achievement depended more on race, income, social class, family background, and peer group! School funding has little effect on student achievement. Another controversial finding of the Coleman Report was that, on average, black schools were funded on a nearly equal basis by the 1960s.

This, almost 45 years ago, and we're still hearing arguments about greater funding being the answer.

It's not the kids, except that they see the easy way out, and they take it.


The largest part of the problem is that so many, and most teachers have bought into this as well, is the flawed logic that making school easier will result in kids doing better.
a. The kids know when they are being fed watered-down pap.
b. real self-esteem stems from conquering a real challenge.
c. discipline must be restored.

Progressive, romantic ideas must be banished, and stringent, content-rich curriculum must be re-instituted. But...let's try all types, and see which produces the most educated students.

The correct way to solve the problem is to use the proven successul free-market model.
1. Allow every variety of educaton, charters, schools or every description, private, public, parchocial, traditonal, progressive, you name it.
2. Education funds go with the child, not to the school: the more kids pick a school, the more remunerative for the school.
3. Parents may choose any type of schooling, in any school that chooses to accept the child, and the funds are sent directly to the school
This follows the plan of idea of the "G.I. Bill"
4.Testing. Decide on the standards for schools, and test the multiple varieties of schools. Remove funding to those who cannot demonstrate success.
5. The free market will determine winners and losers, and society and freedom are the biggest winners.

 

[Samson]

I don't want to miss an opportunity to beat the terminated equus that I have been trumpeting on this board: it is only partially the teachers: it is mainly the flawed 'progressive education' that fails to inspire students.

First you quote from the "Decline and Fall" of "progressivism" in the 1920's.

Then you decide that Progressivism associated with this source only "fell" in every institution, EXCEPT education.

Now you pretend there is something in your imaginary little world that "inspires" students more than the status quo, yet there cannot be any comparison, since you've declared that nothing has existed except progressive education since the BEGINING of complusory education in 1918.

What evidence do you have to support any curriculum that would allow RI stiudents to succeed more than the changes that are already being implemented? The students have been given state standardised tests. These tests have been used to compare student progress from one year to the next. Students have not progressed, so teaching methods are being re-evaluated.

I appears you are more interested in "trumpeting" anything you can fabricate in agreement with Coulter, rather than reality.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I don't want to miss an opportunity to beat the terminated equus that I have been trumpeting on this board: it is only partially the teachers: it is mainly the flawed 'progressive education' that fails to inspire students.

First you quote from the "Decline and Fall" of "progressivism" in the 1920's.

Then you decide that Progressivism associated with this source only "fell" in every institution, EXCEPT education.

Now you pretend there is something in your imaginary little world that "inspires" students more than the status quo, yet there cannot be any comparison, since you've declared that nothing has existed except progressive education since the BEGINING of complusory education in 1918.

What evidence do you have to support any curriculum that would allow RI stiudents to succeed more than the changes that are already being implemented? The students have been given state standardised tests. These tests have been used to compare student progress from one year to the next. Students have not progressed, so teaching methods are being re-evaluated.

I appears you are more interested in "trumpeting" anything you can fabricate in agreement with Coulter, rather than reality.

Well, look who's back from the Hall of Flame...

Misunderstander in Chief.

But it's so good to see you back! After all, what good would this debate be without the human piñata!

1. Most normal humans who both read and were able to comprehend previous posts, in other words weren't suffering- or, in your case, enjoying, ADD, would realize that, unfortunately, Progressivism has not been blotted out.

2. "...nothing has existed except progressive education..."
Let me help you out- which way did you come in? (rimshot). If you can recall how to review the thread, you might find that I have offered the "Massachusetts Miracle." Search for same.

3. "What evidence do you have to support ..."
What evidence do you have that mirrors an education, outside of that parchment from the Florida Clown College?
"...any curriculum ..." As you review the thread, a recent post suggests that the future golden age of education will flow from an administrative initiative that will allow all types of curriculum to be tried.

4. "...teaching methods are being re-evaluated..." Methods that are not re-evaluated with an eye toward re-instituting an 'essentialist' curriculum are, in reality, not re-evaluated. On the contrary, boards simply blame teachers.


5. "...in agreement with Coulter,..."
What is this fascination you have with Queen Ann? It seems to go beyond education.


Ok, now you can go back to the couch and the pork rinds, coma boy. And your visions of Ann...

What’s that you’re muttering? “Must-defend-self…”

 

[Samson]

What evidence do you have to support any curriculum that would allow RI stiudents to succeed more than the changes that are already being implemented? .

Well, look who's back from the Hall of Flame...

Misunderstander in Chief.

But it's so good to see you back! After all, what good would this debate be without the human piñata!

1. Most normal humans who both read and were able to comprehend previous posts, in other words weren't suffering- or, in your case, enjoying, ADD, would realize that, unfortunately, Progressivism has not been blotted out.

2. "...nothing has existed except progressive education..."
Let me help you out- which way did you come in? (rimshot). If you can recall how to review the thread, you might find that I have offered the "Massachusetts Miracle." Search for same.

3. "What evidence do you have to support ..."
What evidence do you have that mirrors an education, outside of that parchment from the Florida Clown College?
"...any curriculum ..." As you review the thread, a recent post suggests that the future golden age of education will flow from an administrative initiative that will allow all types of curriculum to be tried.

4. "...teaching methods are being re-evaluated..." Methods that are not re-evaluated with an eye toward re-instituting an 'essentialist' curriculum are, in reality, not re-evaluated. On the contrary, boards simply blame teachers.


5. "...in agreement with Coulter,..."
What is this fascination you have with Queen Ann? It seems to go beyond education.


Ok, now you can go back to the couch and the pork rinds, coma boy. And your visions of Ann...

What’s that you’re muttering? “Must-defend-self…”

Well, I've attempted to wade through your frothy answer to a relatively simple question.

I'll post it again for your rather shallow consideration:

What evidence do you have to support any curriculum that would allow RI stiudents to succeed more than the changes that are already being implemented?

I give you a "C-" for your attempt to evade an answer thus far.

Frankly, I'm astonished you haven't pasted (yes I mean PASTED) something to support Finnish Teaching & Curriculum in Rhode Island, which has nothing like the demographic profile of Finland, but nonetheless, should adopt Finland's Educational System.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What evidence do you have to support any curriculum that would allow RI stiudents to succeed more than the changes that are already being implemented? .

Well, look who's back from the Hall of Flame...

Misunderstander in Chief.

But it's so good to see you back! After all, what good would this debate be without the human piñata!

1. Most normal humans who both read and were able to comprehend previous posts, in other words weren't suffering- or, in your case, enjoying, ADD, would realize that, unfortunately, Progressivism has not been blotted out.

2. "...nothing has existed except progressive education..."
Let me help you out- which way did you come in? (rimshot). If you can recall how to review the thread, you might find that I have offered the "Massachusetts Miracle." Search for same.

3. "What evidence do you have to support ..."
What evidence do you have that mirrors an education, outside of that parchment from the Florida Clown College?
"...any curriculum ..." As you review the thread, a recent post suggests that the future golden age of education will flow from an administrative initiative that will allow all types of curriculum to be tried.

4. "...teaching methods are being re-evaluated..." Methods that are not re-evaluated with an eye toward re-instituting an 'essentialist' curriculum are, in reality, not re-evaluated. On the contrary, boards simply blame teachers.


5. "...in agreement with Coulter,..."
What is this fascination you have with Queen Ann? It seems to go beyond education.


Ok, now you can go back to the couch and the pork rinds, coma boy. And your visions of Ann...

What’s that you’re muttering? “Must-defend-self…”

Well, I've attempted to wade through your frothy answer to a relatively simple question.

I'll post it again for your rather shallow consideration:

What evidence do you have to support any curriculum that would allow RI stiudents to succeed more than the changes that are already being implemented?

I give you a "C-" for your attempt to evade an answer thus far.

Frankly, I'm astonished you haven't pasted (yes I mean PASTED) something to support Finnish Teaching & Curriculum in Rhode Island, which has nothing like the demographic profile of Finland, but nonetheless, should adopt Finland's Educational System.

I read your post: this is not the Department of Redundancy Department.

It seems the closest you have come to science is bussing tables at Red Lobster.

Are you asking me to prove a hypothetical???

Now, if, in some convoluted bizarro world you are suggesting that you would entertain an example of the benefits of traditional methods, I AGAIN suggest you read of the 'Massachusetts Miracle,' based on the use of content-based curriculum of E. D. Hirsch, jr. in my previous post.