ABC Scurrilously Implies Trimming Federal Spending Will Lead to More Deaths

If the VA is considered one of the best health care organizations in the world, God help us all. Have you ever spent an evening in a VA emergency room? I have. Our veterans are entitled to first rate healthcare as written into their contract in return for putting their lives on the line for their country. Many if not most aren't getting that.

You're still living a few decades back...

The Best Care Anywhere - Phillip Longman
 
So, you've got nothing...

unlike others I have never taken a stand on ryans plan, I think its a good starting point, now, what do YOU have ...anything...? any plan at all? debt ceiling? medicare? 2012 budget? maybe he needs to campaign more, in a fugue state, perhaps something will come to him....
 
So, you've got nothing...

unlike others I have never taken a stand on ryans plan, I think its a good starting point, now, what do YOU have ...anything...? any plan at all? debt ceiling? medicare? 2012 budget? maybe he needs to campaign more, in a fugue state, perhaps something will come to him....

Yeah, I have takes on all three. I'll start with the debt ceiling:

Raise it. Congress makes the decision about what the debt will be when they pass a budget. If Republicans are serious about cutting the budget, cut the budget. Default isn't going to be an effective fig leaf. Also, it would still need be raised by quite a large amount even if they got their dream plan.
 
If the VA is considered one of the best health care organizations in the world, God help us all. Have you ever spent an evening in a VA emergency room? I have. Our veterans are entitled to first rate healthcare as written into their contract in return for putting their lives on the line for their country. Many if not most aren't getting that.

You're still living a few decades back...

The Best Care Anywhere - Phillip Longman

Yes, I've read some of Longman's book when researching another issue re the VA. According to him the VA was at its lowest point in the mid 1990's during the Clinton Administration and greatly improved when President Bush and the Republican Congress funneled enormous amounts of funding into it to upgrade facilities and modernize. Longman's book came out in 2007. But I don't believe the VA today would stack up as better than private medicine. Better than government controlled Medicare? Quite likely. I've seen that up close and personal too and it isn't pretty.

Which only strengthens the argument for beginning now to start backing the federal government out of it and doing something different.
 
I'd like to know how they can claim Ryan's Medicare plan will balance the budget while also claiming it won't cut spending.

you'll get an answer when they tell me how obama isn't a fiscal train wreck either...hows that?

well... you could always undo bush's idiotic tax cuts for rich people. :eusa_whistle:

Does your family bring in $250,000 a year? If so then you are rich even living in New York. Obama promised tax reform where is it? Were is his budget? Were is the democrat's plan to address the deficit? So that’s all we get from you and the dems is raise taxes on families making over $250,000 a year? Were is the plan? I can't see how seemingly intelligent people fall into that liberal talking point bullcrap, sorry but raising taxes on anybody will not stimulate the economy never has, never will:eusa_eh:
 
If an elderly person is getting 20,000 a year from SS and you take away their Medicare and give them a voucher for 6 grand and their care costs 12 grand, then they are now getting 14,000 a year. If they started out with 14,000, they end up with 6,000 a year.

This is what the Paul Ryan/Republican plan will do. What part is too hard to understand?
It doesn't do that. But you will believe what you have been told because you and those like you are in the entitlement camp.
 
If an elderly person is getting 20,000 a year from SS and you take away their Medicare and give them a voucher for 6 grand and their care costs 12 grand, then they are now getting 14,000 a year. If they started out with 14,000, they end up with 6,000 a year.

This is what the Paul Ryan/Republican plan will do. What part is too hard to understand?
It doesn't do that. But you will believe what you have been told because you and those like you are in the entitlement camp.

That's exactly what it does. Don't take his word for it. Ask the CBO.
 
I'd like to know how they can claim Ryan's Medicare plan will balance the budget while also claiming it won't cut spending.

you'll get an answer when they tell me how obama isn't a fiscal train wreck either...hows that?

well... you could always undo bush's idiotic tax cuts for rich people. :eusa_whistle:
That would do nothing. Except give the lefties the chance to :funnyface:
Other than that, nothing will change. The economy will still be in the shitter.
 
If an elderly person is getting 20,000 a year from SS and you take away their Medicare and give them a voucher for 6 grand and their care costs 12 grand, then they are now getting 14,000 a year. If they started out with 14,000, they end up with 6,000 a year.

This is what the Paul Ryan/Republican plan will do. What part is too hard to understand?
It doesn't do that. But you will believe what you have been told because you and those like you are in the entitlement camp.

That's exactly what it does. Don't take his word for it. Ask the CBO.

Please post the CBO's response after you ask them. The CBO has to use the numbers given to it and trust that the numbers government officials give it are the real deal. So I'm sure the numbers the government gives it will produce much different results than the numbers Paul Ryan would give to it.

Here is a portion of the Heritage Foundation's analysis of the Ryan Budget proposal:

Myth #5: The House budget balances the budget on the backs of seniors.
Fact: Current and near-retirees are exempt from reforms.

Much of the attention given to the House budget has focused on the effects on retirees. However, virtually none of the $5.8 trillion in spending reductions in the first decade would affect Social Security and Medicare. In fact, seniors would benefit from averting the large tax increases planned in current law and from tax reforms that lower their rates while closing unneeded loopholes. Those currently older than age 55 would be exempt from any future changes to their Social Security and Medicare benefits.

Myth #6: The House budget would privatize Medicare and hand seniors vouchers.
Fact: Seniors would receive government support to purchase health insurance coverage on a tightly regulated government exchange system.

A “voucher” is usually a certificate of specified cash value that is redeemable for the purchase of goods or services. Under Ryan’s House budget plan, seniors would instead choose health plans and the government would make direct and adequate contributions to the premium cost of the plans of their choice. This “premium support” would go to Medicare-certified and -regulated plans that would compete in a Medicare “exchange,” which Ryan himself has described as “tightly regulated.”

In effect, this premium support system is broadly similar to the kind of system that Members of Congress and federal employees and retirees enjoy today in the widely popular and successful Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). As for “privatization,” virtually all participating Medicare doctors and hospitals (except public hospitals) are private, a quarter of all seniors are enrolled in private plans in Medicare Advantage, and 60 percent of seniors already purchase drug benefits through private plans in Medicare Part D. So, in effect, the House budget proposal extends the successful Part D financing model to the coverage of benefits under Parts A and B.[3]

Myth #7: Medicare is more efficient than private health insurance.
Fact: Medicare’s administrative burdens are hidden and they outweigh private-sector costs.

On paper, Medicare’s administrative costs compared to the private sector appear comparatively small: 2–3 percent of benefit expenditures. Even accounting for radically different patient profiles and functions of Medicare and private insurance, administrative costs per person under Medicare compared to private insurance plans shows that Medicare’s administrative costs exceed those of private health insurance.[4]

Furthermore, Medicare’s administrative costs do not include the enormous costs of provider compliance with massive Medicare red tape and paperwork. A 2001 PricewaterhouseCoopers study showed that for every hour spent treating a typical Medicare patient, hospital officials spent 30 minutes complying with Medicare paperwork.[5]

One administrative cost that is often overlooked is the tens of billions of dollars annually of Medicare waste, fraud, and abuse. In sheer volume, there is no comparable cost in the private sector or in the FEHBP. Private insurers have strong incentives to detect fraudulent claims, as undetected fraud hurts their bottom lines.

Myth #8: The House budget plan would end Medicare as we know it.

Fact: Obamacare ended Medicare as we know it.

Obamacare imposes record-breaking payment cuts for Medicare providers—plus an unprecedented hard cap on Medicare spending to be enforced by the newly created Independent Payments Advisory Board, an unelected board of bureaucrats empowered to lower provider payments to preordained levels indexed to inflation and economic growth. This will ensure rationing of care through provider payment cuts.[6]

Furthermore, under Section 3021 Congress tasks the new Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation with transitioning from the current fee-for-service reimbursement system toward capitated or salary-based reimbursements. This would literally be the end of traditional Medicare fee for service “as we know it.”

Both the House and Obama proposals impose external spending caps on Medicare. But the House proposal aims to control costs primarily through intense market competition—not just deeper payment cuts for Medicare providers—while preserving and enhancing the right of seniors to choose health care options.

Myth #9: The House budget plan would shift Medicaid costs to the states and hurt the poor.
Fact: Medicaid block grants would help states lower Medicaid costs and provide them with the flexibility to better serve the poor.

The House budget plan would remove the perverse incentives resulting from the open-ended federal reimbursement of state Medicaid spending. The block grant proposal would provide greater budget certainty at the federal and state levels. In addition, states would have greater flexibility and greater incentives to reduce costs. The proposal would also encourage states to spend their Medicaid dollars wisely and to consider innovative ways to deliver better care at lower costs.[7]

Myth #10: Most Medicare costs would continue to rise, and retirees would bear those costs with insufficient assistance.

Fact: Intense market competition would reduce costs and enable Medicare patients to secure value for their dollars.

Projecting far into the future, CBO predicts that under the House budget proposal the government’s share of retirees’ health care costs would decrease from currently about 70 percent to just 32 percent by 2030.[8] But that static analysis assumes that—despite a major change in economic incentives and intense market competition—health care costs will not be reduced. Behavioral responses to such powerful new economic incentives should not be ignored; experience with such changes proves otherwise.

10 Myths of Ryan's House Budget Plan | The Heritage Foundation

The Heritage Foundation does very careful research. Rebut them if you can.
 
you'll get an answer when they tell me how obama isn't a fiscal train wreck either...hows that?

well... you could always undo bush's idiotic tax cuts for rich people. :eusa_whistle:

Does your family bring in $250,000 a year? If so then you are rich even living in New York. Obama promised tax reform where is it? Were is his budget? Were is the democrat's plan to address the deficit? So that’s all we get from you and the dems is raise taxes on families making over $250,000 a year? Were is the plan? I can't see how seemingly intelligent people fall into that liberal talking point bullcrap, sorry but raising taxes on anybody will not stimulate the economy never has, never will:eusa_eh:

Not it won't . But it will make the libs feel better. And as with an ideology based on emotion, that is all that matters.
 
The only think Heritage's analysis is useful for is as toilet paper.

Well so much for an adult conversation and honest debate. Do have a nice evening.

You're not interested in an honest debate. If you were, you wouldn't be posting claims that Ryan's plan will drop employment to under 3%.

I have not in my entire life ever claimed or even suggested that anybody's plan would drop unemployment to any number, let alone under 3%. Again do have a nice evening.
 
Well so much for an adult conversation and honest debate. Do have a nice evening.

You're not interested in an honest debate. If you were, you wouldn't be posting claims that Ryan's plan will drop employment to under 3%.

I have not in my entire life ever claimed or even suggested that anybody's plan would drop unemployment to any number, let alone under 3%. Again do have a nice evening.

That Heritage analysis you just linked to did exactly that.
 

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