A thought experiment on borders.

Discussion in 'Election Forums' started by Ray9, Feb 4, 2017.

  1. Ray9
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    Ray9 Gold Member

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    Let’s do a thought experiment. Apparently there are two camps on the issue of borders, those who believe they are necessary to preserve the continuity, safety and cultural integrity of civilization and those who believe borders shouldn’t exist at all.


    Robert Frost reflected on the necessity of walls as he and his neighbor walked the stone border separating their properties. In his poem “Mending Wall” Frost did his own thought experiment while along with his neighbor he patrolled on the opposite side of the piled stones between their farms looking for loose boulders that needed to be replaced. Frost philosophically reasoned that “something there is that doesn’t love a wall” because walls can shut people out from one another. His neighbor had a more pragmatic approach to the maintenance they were performing. Unlike Frost he didn’t question any complex issues arising from the existence of the wall and human interaction. His neighbor knew only that the wall needed to be fixed in the spring and it’s a good practice to do the fixing with the owner of the adjacent property. His neighbor says “good fences make good neighbors”.


    Now it’s a pretty good bet the Frost was better educated than his neighbor and he observes that his neighbor walks in the “shade” as he works which could be interpreted as unenlightened and though he would like to put “notions” in his head to persuade him to be more thoughtful he seems to respect the neighbor’s point of view and his dignity as a fellow human being because the wall they are repairing is an artifact of wisdom not educated intelligence.


    In the poem there is the mention of “hunters” who are interlopers that cast aside the stones to make spaces in the wall to pursue their quarry. The hunters have no respect for the space they overrun because they have nothing invested in it. Frost does not say to his neighbor that the hunters have some kind of lofty right to dispossess those who occupy a space of the space they occupy. He does not confront his neighbor with threats of legal action to force his neighbor to stop putting up stones that impede hunters. Frost says nothing about his neighbor being an ignorant fool, only that he thinks differently. Whether or not one is more wrongheaded is not explored in the poem. Both seem to arrive at the conclusion that in a world where everyone does not have the best of intentions, some walls are necessary even if there is always something that wants them down-maybe in a fictional, fanciful world where everyone does have the best of intentions.


    We are not living in the days of Robert Frost. We are living in an age where a tiny nucleus of politically connected and educated elite considers the rest of us ignorant fools. They are moving populations all over the Earth without regard to the personal space and shared cultural history the rest of us already occupy. This has been tried all over Europe for centuries and has produced such wonderful outcomes as Nazis and Ethnic Cleansing. For some reason intellectuals relish ideas where the slaughter of innocent men, women and children on the side of the road to settle old scores is just part of doing business. They keep pushing the failures of Europe in American classrooms as though they are somehow morally superior to our way of life. Separating people into political groups and then fomenting antipathy between those groups is commonplace in the psychosis of leftwing politics and it was staying the course here until this last presidential election. One of our political parties marched itself right over a cliff and now their true colors are exposed with rioting brown shirts at educational institutions as they try to burn out opposing points of view with violent intolerance.


    Robert Frost should have listened to his neighbor. End of thought experiment.
     
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  2. anotherlife
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    anotherlife Gold Member

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    Very interesting.

    The bible says, that moving a border stone is theft. Therefore putting in a border where there was none before is theft.

    In the thought experiment, therefore, both farmers are thieves, they stole the land of the hunters by erecting the stone fence in the first place.

    Yes, Europe has now a lot more borders than ever before. This shows that Europe is based on theft, ever since ww1.

    The problem is that theft used to be just theft but now theft is legislated. This way we believe that we are thieves rightfully, and everyone else is wrongful.

    Fore example the borders of the republic of Venice are replaced with the borders of Croatia since ww1, and it doesn't matter that the Adriatic Sea has always been Venice, we think that it is "rightfully" Croatia/Yugoslavia, and we would have the sentiment that Venive/Italy would be wrongful to want it back.

    It is the ethnic cleansing / deportations / forced population shifting, what gives the legitimacy to the theft.

    The USA is by far not this bad, because the USA doesn't yet have internal borders.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
  3. Ray9
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    Ray9 Gold Member

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    You raise a good point. In the US one can travel from state to state without papers or even identification. But this may not be the case for long if attacks escalate and increase. In the wake of the attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001 the Department of Homeland Security was created and it has the ability to impose Martial Law at the drop of a hat. Under Martial Law travel restrictions can be implemented and suddenly the US is identical to many parts of Europe. It's good that you used the word "yet".
     
  4. anotherlife
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    anotherlife Gold Member

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    Yes, and this is why I think that the 2001 intelligence was ignored by bush on purpose.

    In Europe, they are ahead in this process indeed. In the USA, even those who were deported to reservations, have the right to free travel anywhere and can freely open a business anywhere without having to learn crazy state languages.

    I think it is interesting to see how Europe uses language as a weapon, and rejects English, when the entire world embraces English increasingly more. Luckily, the USA will never sink this low, because in the USA everyone likes English except the Mexicans.
     

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