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Where are the rebuttals for the points stating:
1) That NIWA demonstrated to the court's satisfaction that the 7 Station Series (7SS) prior to the 2010 review was based on the 1981 Salinger adjustments.
2) That dFDB ignored all the work NIWA had done developing the 7SS.
3) That the paper is "essentially identical to an “audit’ of NIWA’s Seven Station Series conducted by the NZCSC, and which was offered as evidence in their trust’s attempt to sue NIWA." [The response to this was that it was Renowden's responsibility to prove the two were the same]
4) Being identical, it contains the same mistakes that were identified by the court during the failed suit [The response to this was a rant about whether or not such information was actually in the public domain]
5) The claim that RS93 calls for one and two year comparison periods when RS93 uses 4 year periods throughout.
6) That using the shorter periods very effectively reduces the statistical significance of the data on hand, effectively reducing the observed warming trend.
7) That no professional climatologist would use a period of less than four years for precisely that reason
8) That their methodology fails to make any assessment of maximum and minimum temperatures in the record.
9) That de Freitas et al infilled a month of data missing from may of 1920 with unrealistically warm data despite records showing all surrounding stations were experiencing records cold temperatures.
10) The faulty infill and excessively abbreviated comparison period also reduced the statistical significance of the station's deviation and eliminated a needed adjustment.
11) That the paper makes no reference whatsoever to the 11 Station Series (11SS) whose raw data needs no adjustments and shows a warming trend three times that dFDB2014 find, matching closely the 0.91C found by NIWA in the 7SS.
12) That dBDF2014 fails to address or even acknowledge " the issues raised by NIWA scientist Brett Mullan’s 2012 paper in Weather & Climate (the journal of the Meteorological Society of NZ), Applying the Rhoades and Salinger Method to New Zealand’s “Seven Stations” Temperature series (Weather & Climate, 32(1), 24-38), despite it dealing in detail with the method they claim to apply."
13) That the paper fails to make any reference to surrounding sea surface temperature data or data from surrounding islands, all of which support the original NIWA warming trend.
14) That de Freitas has no publishing history in the adjustment or homogenization of climate records.
15) That Dedekind and Brill have NO relevant academic experience and NO publishing record whatsoever.
good thing I'm an atheist.Get to your knees and worship your deity.
why don't you show that adding 120 PPM of CO2 matters.jc456 -
For gods sake - try and post with a little common sense, eh?
Seriously....go and look at the growth/retreat patterns of the glaciers, and then come back and correct the errors in your post.
Where are the rebuttals for the points stating:
12) That dBDF2014 fails to address or even acknowledge " the issues raised by NIWA scientist Brett Mullan’s 2012 paper in Weather & Climate (the journal of the Meteorological Society of NZ), Applying the Rhoades and Salinger Method to New Zealand’s “Seven Stations” Temperature series (Weather & Climate, 32(1), 24-38), despite it dealing in detail with the method they claim to apply."
13) That the paper fails to make any reference to surrounding sea surface temperature data or data from surrounding islands, all of which support the original NIWA warming trend.
Where are the rebuttals for the points stating:
1) That NIWA demonstrated to the court's satisfaction that the 7 Station Series (7SS) prior to the 2010 review was based on the 1981 Salinger adjustments.
Chris de Freitas - SourceWatch
Chris de Freitas is an Associate Professor in the School of Geography, Geology and Environmental Science at the University of Auckland in New Zealand. He is a global warming skeptic, is listed as a contributor to the climate contrarian website ICECAP, and is listed as a Heartland Institute "global warming expert" and an advisor to the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition[1]
Contents
[hide]
Controversies
Under de Freitas's editorship of Climate Research (journal), several poor quality contrarian papers were published, that he had shepherded through the peer review process; half the journal's editors ended up resigning in protest at the lax editorial policies that had permitted these papers to slip through and the publisher's unwillingness to enforce suitably stringent ones. [2] De Freitas doesn't accept that extreme weather events are linked to human induced climate change [3]
yes, the climategate emails were very informative about how deFreitas could be smeared and removed from the Journal. and in fact was and was
when are you ever going to learn how to separate ideas from those who speak them?
Where are the rebuttals for the points stating:
1) That NIWA demonstrated to the court's satisfaction that the 7 Station Series (7SS) prior to the 2010 review was based on the 1981 Salinger adjustments.
2) That dFDB ignored all the work NIWA had done developing the 7SS.
3) That the paper is "essentially identical to an “audit’ of NIWA’s Seven Station Series conducted by the NZCSC, and which was offered as evidence in their trust’s attempt to sue NIWA." [The response to this was that it was Renowden's responsibility to prove the two were the same]
4) Being identical, it contains the same mistakes that were identified by the court during the failed suit [The response to this was a rant about whether or not such information was actually in the public domain]
5) The claim that RS93 calls for one and two year comparison periods when RS93 uses 4 year periods throughout.
6) That using the shorter periods very effectively reduces the statistical significance of the data on hand, effectively reducing the observed warming trend.
7) That no professional climatologist would use a period of less than four years for precisely that reason
8) That their methodology fails to make any assessment of maximum and minimum temperatures in the record.
9) That de Freitas et al infilled a month of data missing from may of 1920 with unrealistically warm data despite records showing all surrounding stations were experiencing records cold temperatures.
10) The faulty infill and excessively abbreviated comparison period also reduced the statistical significance of the station's deviation and eliminated a needed adjustment.
11) That the paper makes no reference whatsoever to the 11 Station Series (11SS) whose raw data needs no adjustments and shows a warming trend three times that dFDB2014 find, matching closely the 0.91C found by NIWA in the 7SS.
12) That dBDF2014 fails to address or even acknowledge " the issues raised by NIWA scientist Brett Mullan’s 2012 paper in Weather & Climate (the journal of the Meteorological Society of NZ), Applying the Rhoades and Salinger Method to New Zealand’s “Seven Stations” Temperature series (Weather & Climate, 32(1), 24-38), despite it dealing in detail with the method they claim to apply."
13) That the paper fails to make any reference to surrounding sea surface temperature data or data from surrounding islands, all of which support the original NIWA warming trend.
14) That de Freitas has no publishing history in the adjustment or homogenization of climate records.
15) That Dedekind and Brill have NO relevant academic experience and NO publishing record whatsoever.
Ian, you have not responded to any of these. Are you now willing to admit that neither deFreitas nor his supporters answered any of these Renowden observations?
And, btw, the 11 Station Series matches NIWA's 7 Station Series. It does NOT match dFDB2014.
really? you want to go through the list?
Ok. #1.
the NIWA said its dataset was based on Salinger and Rhoades93, a peer reviewed methodology. when it was shown that it wasnt, they then said it was based on Salinger's 1981 doctorate thesis. when asked for the thesis and number work up they said buy a copy. when the thesis didnt explain the dataset because the working figures were missing, the NIWA said everything was 'lost' when the university changed computers. no one was quite sure how Salinger's dataset got put on the official govt website or why it was distributed worldwide without documentation.
crick, you always side with authority even when there is clear evidence that there have been major screw-ups all the way down the line.
this NZ case is yet another clarion call for data to be present and available to public scrutiny. Steve McIntyre shouldnt have to spend his retirement prising data out of clenched fists to analyze climate science papers. it should simply be available, as most Journal rules say it should be.
Dude, the entire globe once was ice covered and has been melting for millions of years. you have no point!!!!Meanwhile, back in the real world, what is going away are NZ's glaciers - and I have to say that it appalls me that people simply ignore what they can see with their own ideas because their own political views find it too boring....
A spectacular ice retreat at the Franz Josef Glacier has surprised experts.
The glacier has retreated 500m in four years, prompting suggestions of a road up the valley as the ice disappears from view.
Dr Brian Anderson, a Victoria University senior research fellow in glaciology, said the retreat was "really unusual and quite amazing".
"While the glacier has always been dramatic in its advances and retreats, the rapidity of the present retreat is remarkable," he said.
Between 1893 and the end of its last big retreat 90 years later, in 1983, Franz Josef Glacier receded about 3km.
Between 1983 and 2008 it advanced almost 1.5km after heavy snowfalls. But in the past four years it has melted almost 500m.
The retreat began in 2008, and last year the ice thinned by about 70m behind the glacier terminal.
A colleague with a seismometer detected "ice quakes" - the ground shaking from an ice collapse - as a huge cavity formed beneath the glacier, eventually causing its surface to sink into it.
By January this year, a hole had formed in the glacier, putting an end to guided walks.
Tourists are now flown on to the ice by helicopter.The walk from the car park to the terminal face is now 3km.
Franz Josef Glacier s rapid retreat photos - National - NZ Herald News
Chris de Freitas - SourceWatch
Chris de Freitas is an Associate Professor in the School of Geography, Geology and Environmental Science at the University of Auckland in New Zealand. He is a global warming skeptic, is listed as a contributor to the climate contrarian website ICECAP, and is listed as a Heartland Institute "global warming expert" and an advisor to the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition[1]
Contents
[hide]
Controversies
Under de Freitas's editorship of Climate Research (journal), several poor quality contrarian papers were published, that he had shepherded through the peer review process; half the journal's editors ended up resigning in protest at the lax editorial policies that had permitted these papers to slip through and the publisher's unwillingness to enforce suitably stringent ones. [2] De Freitas doesn't accept that extreme weather events are linked to human induced climate change [3]
yes, the climategate emails were very informative about how deFreitas could be smeared and removed from the Journal. and in fact was and was
when are you ever going to learn how to separate ideas from those who speak them?
It is important to know one's sources. You didn't know this? Huh.
Where are the rebuttals for the points stating:
1) That NIWA demonstrated to the court's satisfaction that the 7 Station Series (7SS) prior to the 2010 review was based on the 1981 Salinger adjustments.
2) That dFDB ignored all the work NIWA had done developing the 7SS.
3) That the paper is "essentially identical to an “audit’ of NIWA’s Seven Station Series conducted by the NZCSC, and which was offered as evidence in their trust’s attempt to sue NIWA." [The response to this was that it was Renowden's responsibility to prove the two were the same]
4) Being identical, it contains the same mistakes that were identified by the court during the failed suit [The response to this was a rant about whether or not such information was actually in the public domain]
5) The claim that RS93 calls for one and two year comparison periods when RS93 uses 4 year periods throughout.
6) That using the shorter periods very effectively reduces the statistical significance of the data on hand, effectively reducing the observed warming trend.
7) That no professional climatologist would use a period of less than four years for precisely that reason
8) That their methodology fails to make any assessment of maximum and minimum temperatures in the record.
9) That de Freitas et al infilled a month of data missing from may of 1920 with unrealistically warm data despite records showing all surrounding stations were experiencing records cold temperatures.
10) The faulty infill and excessively abbreviated comparison period also reduced the statistical significance of the station's deviation and eliminated a needed adjustment.
11) That the paper makes no reference whatsoever to the 11 Station Series (11SS) whose raw data needs no adjustments and shows a warming trend three times that dFDB2014 find, matching closely the 0.91C found by NIWA in the 7SS.
12) That dBDF2014 fails to address or even acknowledge " the issues raised by NIWA scientist Brett Mullan’s 2012 paper in Weather & Climate (the journal of the Meteorological Society of NZ), Applying the Rhoades and Salinger Method to New Zealand’s “Seven Stations” Temperature series (Weather & Climate, 32(1), 24-38), despite it dealing in detail with the method they claim to apply."
13) That the paper fails to make any reference to surrounding sea surface temperature data or data from surrounding islands, all of which support the original NIWA warming trend.
14) That de Freitas has no publishing history in the adjustment or homogenization of climate records.
15) That Dedekind and Brill have NO relevant academic experience and NO publishing record whatsoever.
Ian, you have not responded to any of these. Are you now willing to admit that neither deFreitas nor his supporters answered any of these Renowden observations?
And, btw, the 11 Station Series matches NIWA's 7 Station Series. It does NOT match dFDB2014.
really? you want to go through the list?
Ok. #1.
the NIWA said its dataset was based on Salinger and Rhoades93, a peer reviewed methodology. when it was shown that it wasnt, they then said it was based on Salinger's 1981 doctorate thesis. when asked for the thesis and number work up they said buy a copy. when the thesis didnt explain the dataset because the working figures were missing, the NIWA said everything was 'lost' when the university changed computers. no one was quite sure how Salinger's dataset got put on the official govt website or why it was distributed worldwide without documentation.
crick, you always side with authority even when there is clear evidence that there have been major screw-ups all the way down the line.
this NZ case is yet another clarion call for data to be present and available to public scrutiny. Steve McIntyre shouldnt have to spend his retirement prising data out of clenched fists to analyze climate science papers. it should simply be available, as most Journal rules say it should be.
McIntyre? Really? It isn't like anyone was wrenching his arm and making him look like a fool. He did that to himself.
Dude, the entire globe once was ice covered and has been melting for millions of years. you have no point!!!!Meanwhile, back in the real world, what is going away are NZ's glaciers - and I have to say that it appalls me that people simply ignore what they can see with their own ideas because their own political views find it too boring....
A spectacular ice retreat at the Franz Josef Glacier has surprised experts.
The glacier has retreated 500m in four years, prompting suggestions of a road up the valley as the ice disappears from view.
Dr Brian Anderson, a Victoria University senior research fellow in glaciology, said the retreat was "really unusual and quite amazing".
"While the glacier has always been dramatic in its advances and retreats, the rapidity of the present retreat is remarkable," he said.
Between 1893 and the end of its last big retreat 90 years later, in 1983, Franz Josef Glacier receded about 3km.
Between 1983 and 2008 it advanced almost 1.5km after heavy snowfalls. But in the past four years it has melted almost 500m.
The retreat began in 2008, and last year the ice thinned by about 70m behind the glacier terminal.
A colleague with a seismometer detected "ice quakes" - the ground shaking from an ice collapse - as a huge cavity formed beneath the glacier, eventually causing its surface to sink into it.
By January this year, a hole had formed in the glacier, putting an end to guided walks.
Tourists are now flown on to the ice by helicopter.The walk from the car park to the terminal face is now 3km.
Franz Josef Glacier s rapid retreat photos - National - NZ Herald News
Millions of years? That was over 600 million years ago, and that ice has been gone for at least 550 million years. Facepalm, dude. And guess what melted it? You guessed it - rising CO2 levels.
Dude, the entire globe once was ice covered and has been melting for millions of years. you have no point!!!!Meanwhile, back in the real world, what is going away are NZ's glaciers - and I have to say that it appalls me that people simply ignore what they can see with their own ideas because their own political views find it too boring....
A spectacular ice retreat at the Franz Josef Glacier has surprised experts.
The glacier has retreated 500m in four years, prompting suggestions of a road up the valley as the ice disappears from view.
Dr Brian Anderson, a Victoria University senior research fellow in glaciology, said the retreat was "really unusual and quite amazing".
"While the glacier has always been dramatic in its advances and retreats, the rapidity of the present retreat is remarkable," he said.
Between 1893 and the end of its last big retreat 90 years later, in 1983, Franz Josef Glacier receded about 3km.
Between 1983 and 2008 it advanced almost 1.5km after heavy snowfalls. But in the past four years it has melted almost 500m.
The retreat began in 2008, and last year the ice thinned by about 70m behind the glacier terminal.
A colleague with a seismometer detected "ice quakes" - the ground shaking from an ice collapse - as a huge cavity formed beneath the glacier, eventually causing its surface to sink into it.
By January this year, a hole had formed in the glacier, putting an end to guided walks.
Tourists are now flown on to the ice by helicopter.The walk from the car park to the terminal face is now 3km.
Franz Josef Glacier s rapid retreat photos - National - NZ Herald News
Millions of years? That was over 600 million years ago, and that ice has been gone for at least 550 million years. Facepalm, dude. And guess what melted it? You guessed it - rising CO2 levels.
Shakun12 tried to show that CO2 caused the Earth to come out of the last Glacial Period. should we go over the mistakes, deceptions and equivical proxies again?
Dude, the entire globe once was ice covered and has been melting for millions of years. you have no point!!!!Meanwhile, back in the real world, what is going away are NZ's glaciers - and I have to say that it appalls me that people simply ignore what they can see with their own ideas because their own political views find it too boring....
A spectacular ice retreat at the Franz Josef Glacier has surprised experts.
The glacier has retreated 500m in four years, prompting suggestions of a road up the valley as the ice disappears from view.
Dr Brian Anderson, a Victoria University senior research fellow in glaciology, said the retreat was "really unusual and quite amazing".
"While the glacier has always been dramatic in its advances and retreats, the rapidity of the present retreat is remarkable," he said.
Between 1893 and the end of its last big retreat 90 years later, in 1983, Franz Josef Glacier receded about 3km.
Between 1983 and 2008 it advanced almost 1.5km after heavy snowfalls. But in the past four years it has melted almost 500m.
The retreat began in 2008, and last year the ice thinned by about 70m behind the glacier terminal.
A colleague with a seismometer detected "ice quakes" - the ground shaking from an ice collapse - as a huge cavity formed beneath the glacier, eventually causing its surface to sink into it.
By January this year, a hole had formed in the glacier, putting an end to guided walks.
Tourists are now flown on to the ice by helicopter.The walk from the car park to the terminal face is now 3km.
Franz Josef Glacier s rapid retreat photos - National - NZ Herald News
Millions of years? That was over 600 million years ago, and that ice has been gone for at least 550 million years. Facepalm, dude. And guess what melted it? You guessed it - rising CO2 levels.
Shakun12 tried to show that CO2 caused the Earth to come out of the last Glacial Period. should we go over the mistakes, deceptions and equivical proxies again?
You get events that happened 250 million years ago confused with, well, something that didn't happen 250 million years ago. Are you certain you want to subject yourself to more embarrassing discussion?
Shakun12 tried to show that CO2 caused the Earth to come out of the last Glacial Period. should we go over the mistakes, deceptions and equivical (sic) proxies again?
Dude, the entire globe once was ice covered and has been melting for millions of years. you have no point!!!!Meanwhile, back in the real world, what is going away are NZ's glaciers - and I have to say that it appalls me that people simply ignore what they can see with their own ideas because their own political views find it too boring....
A spectacular ice retreat at the Franz Josef Glacier has surprised experts.
The glacier has retreated 500m in four years, prompting suggestions of a road up the valley as the ice disappears from view.
Dr Brian Anderson, a Victoria University senior research fellow in glaciology, said the retreat was "really unusual and quite amazing".
"While the glacier has always been dramatic in its advances and retreats, the rapidity of the present retreat is remarkable," he said.
Between 1893 and the end of its last big retreat 90 years later, in 1983, Franz Josef Glacier receded about 3km.
Between 1983 and 2008 it advanced almost 1.5km after heavy snowfalls. But in the past four years it has melted almost 500m.
The retreat began in 2008, and last year the ice thinned by about 70m behind the glacier terminal.
A colleague with a seismometer detected "ice quakes" - the ground shaking from an ice collapse - as a huge cavity formed beneath the glacier, eventually causing its surface to sink into it.
By January this year, a hole had formed in the glacier, putting an end to guided walks.
Tourists are now flown on to the ice by helicopter.The walk from the car park to the terminal face is now 3km.
Franz Josef Glacier s rapid retreat photos - National - NZ Herald News
Millions of years? That was over 600 million years ago, and that ice has been gone for at least 550 million years. Facepalm, dude. And guess what melted it? You guessed it - rising CO2 levels.
Shakun12 tried to show that CO2 caused the Earth to come out of the last Glacial Period. should we go over the mistakes, deceptions and equivical proxies again?
You get events that happened 250 million years ago confused with, well, something that didn't happen 250 million years ago. Are you certain you want to subject yourself to more embarrassing discussion?
it seems to me that you should be the one who is embarrassed, by trying to deflect to obscure subjects. you got anything on NZ temp records other than ad homs against the authors of the paper?
Ian -
Was the person/group involved in the court case from a science or a politics background?
If the answer is extreme right-wing politics, what do you think that tells us about the nature of denialism?