CDZ A Moderate Maifesto

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by JimBowie1958, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. Natural Citizen
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    Natural Citizen Gold Member

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    All it shows is that you're both intellectually dishonest.

    You echoed Mussolini's sentiment pretty much mirror image. That's the only context that matters. It's right there in black and white. And Jimbo called it one of his finest moments.Of course he's going to defend you.

    But from an educated observer's perspective I think jim plays his role well. He's got most people around here fooled, I think.
     
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  2. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    ???
     
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  3. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    OT:
    Whom do you channel in order to have such a perspective?
     
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    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  4. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    You've stumbled on a veritable hive of Communists and fellow travelers here; we couldn't fool you, could we?
     
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  5. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    Is it?
    White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader - LEO Weekly Ok, I can get on board with number 10, sort of.
    Can't imagine how someone is supposed to interpret this in any other way. Please explain that to me. How is this NOT a statement AGAINST white people?
    Fair enough. Where are you finding these conversations? They certainly are quite rare in the national media...
     
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  6. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    Well said. It is a much more clear and concise way of stating why so many people have a problem with "identity politics" than my attempt in post #25. It's really not "identity" that is the problem, it's "collectivism" disguised as "identity" politics. To put it, hopefully, more clearly:

    I do not have a problem with identity politics per se, it's when it spills into collectivist politics and identifying by "membership" in a particular group that I have a problem with.

    An example:
    "Black people are poor." collectivist
    VS.
    "Many black people are poor." identifying

    I am in no way suggesting anyone is making such a blanket statement as "Black people are poor." it is merely an example used to demonstrate my point, poorly I fear.
     
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  7. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    Search for the term "collectivism" on this message board.

    Read those posts.

    Q.E.D.[/QUOTE]
    I'll bit, but I'll do one better. The first entry when one Googles "collectivism":
    "the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it."
    So, it would seem as though you are incorrect here.
     
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  8. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I would like to see moderates seize control of the Government

    Right now, moderates meekly go along with the extremes of their party
    The right mocks them as RINOs while the left calls them Blue Dogs

    In the Senate, if 15 moderate Democrats and 15 moderate Republicans were to get together and agree to compromises on legislation they could force the extremes to concede or lose

    They would be the most powerful voting block in Congress
     
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  9. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    "Number 10," and perhaps "Number 7," are the only serious behests. [1] The first six are merely presented to illustrate innocuous and understandable yet effective actions that nonetheless contribute to a centuries long process of consolidation of wealth and power among whites.

    For instance, several of "1-6" are about upward mobility. There's really no good basis for expecting a decedent to endow someone other than their familial heirs; however, to the extent that opportunities to develop personal wealth has been something by and large not available at all to blacks, they, in contrast to whites, had with every generation to literally start from scratch, economically, educationally, socially, and often enough legally for unlike whites, blacks faced with potential or real charges didn't generally receive the benefit of the doubt and often enough saw charges trumped up to make the someone's scapegoat. When one cannot pass on to one's kids much or anything -- can't help them with school because one has no education to speak of, can't pass on wealth and property because one has none, can't pass on social status because one hasn't any, etc. -- one's kids inherit nothing.

    Nobody's seriously imploring anyone to bequeath their property to a poor black family/individual. The BLM author is merely pointing out, at a very personal level, how America's culture contrived to oppress blacks.

    There is another key point that's being made: the oppression of blacks has, in the 21st century more so than ever before, become almost synonymous with oppression of the poor, regardless of race. Poor people of any race suffer from the same consolidatory processes, customs, policies and structures that, in the past, were largely consigned to blacks. Thus the key "take away" from points "1-6" is that be one poor, one is deluding oneself if one thinks one's fortunes are notably better than are those of similarly situated blacks. That's always been more or less the case, but as white primacy increasingly erodes, poor folks are better off aligning without regard to race than they are doing so along the lines of race. That appears, at least to me, to be the tacit exhortation and illustration given in points "1-6."


    Note:
    1. I wouldn't have any problem doing "Number 7." I've never personally needed to lead the charge to do it, but given the firm's culture -- we have zero tolerance for all the "isms" because they are very bad for business -- it's definitely something I have enough authority and leverage to do were I certain a member of the firm or an employee is a racist.
     
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  10. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    You may well be right. However, if this author was serious about starting a conversation, they would, surely, have used a far less divisive tactic. Therefore, it still illustrates the point I was trying to make, which is:
    Many of those who claim they wish to start a national dialog, really aren't interested in hearing any debate, they just want to shout about how they have been wronged and provide few, if any real solutions.
     
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