A message to young (and old) ideologues

Discussion in 'Politics' started by MaggieMae, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. MaggieMae
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    MaggieMae Reality bits

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    With the heated congressional debate over the tax cut extension, we are witnessing an historic example of Constitutional tenets of checks and balances in order to reach compromise. It is democracy in action, and one for the history books.

    The Constitution does not express ideological opinions because a single political philosophy should not create rule of law. A single event should not dictate reaction to future events of a similar nature.

    The public rightfully needs to have adult conversations and debates concerning real world problems in real time, and historically as now, the outcome is not going to please everyone. But our system of government is arranged so that those who "lose" the debate of the moment will live to see another day.

    I'm continually reminded of the brilliance of our founders who instinctively knew how to frame the Constitution while not knowing how diverse the nation would ultimately become.
     
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  2. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

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    Which is why we should all fight the government's urges to "Fundamentally transform the united states of america" and we should also fight all their attempts to go above and beyond all the limits the constitution has placed on them.....recent examples the patriot act and the health care bill.
     
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  3. loosecannon
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    loosecannon Senior Member

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    only on a political board can the complete breakdown of our republican system be heralded as a shining example of the constitution's brilliance.

    The system has fallen down and it can't get up.
    And the constitution did not enshrine political parties to dominate Congress.
     
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  4. MaggieMae
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    MaggieMae Reality bits

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    Sorry, but I've seen it fall down several times in the course of my lifetime and it always manages to land upright, on its feet. And it will again. The irony is that with all the screeching about "Constitutional Values" by the far right, it appears to the the far right who has no faith in the system at all.
     
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  5. Baruch Menachem
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    Baruch Menachem '

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    You read Madison's arguments in the federalist papers, you would see your mistake. Partisan politics was not new to him, and in Federalist #10 he explains how the system uses parties rather than allows parties to game the system.

    Madison is the guy who wrote the initial draft they worked from.

    At the same time I had to read the Federalist papers, I also had to read Machiavelli's Discourses for another class. You could tell Madison was very familiar with Machiavelli's work.
     
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  6. QUENTIN
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    "Ideologues" is treated like a dirty word as though essential, foundational beliefs aren't "pragmatic", but I'd argue it's just another way of saying "a principled person who sticks to their convictions."

    The country's founders were mostly ideologues who zealously advocated and codified a clear ideological opinion found in absolutist, unequivocal language in the Constitution: a firm belief in representative democracy, aversion to concentrations of power, the inviolable right of freedom of speech, religion, press, privacy, assembly, fair trials, etc.

    Most great leaders throughout history were ideologues and men finding common ground in competing principles they resolutely maintain produces far better results than excessive concession on matters of principle and adoption of so much Realpolitik.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  7. Soggy in NOLA
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    Soggy in NOLA Platinum Member

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    What? Who says this? We have faith in the system, but we reserve ultimate faith in our ability to manage our own lives. We don't have faith in government's ability or motives when reaching out into areas like education, values, food, drink, this that and the other thing.
     
  8. Jarhead
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    Jarhead Gold Member

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    Well said.

    We are seeing democracy in action.

    Just wish both sides would stop with the rhetoric. The rhetoric is all about elections, and right now is not the time for political posturing.
     
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  9. Jarhead
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    The system designed is well at work.

    The unethical manipulation of the system by both sides of the aisle is what is slowing it up.
     
  10. AllieBaba
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    AllieBaba BANNED

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    I thought the word was "ideagogue".

    Lol. Learn something every day!
     

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