67 Years

Discussion in 'History' started by Unkotare, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. Unkotare
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    Unkotare Diamond Member

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  2. there4eyeM
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    there4eyeM unlicensed metaphysician

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    Great moral responsibility in being the first to use 'the bomb'.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  3. gipper
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    gipper Libertarian/Anarchist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    The a-bombings were immoral and necessary. It is never right to wantonly murder civilians. And particularly of a nation that wanted to surrender. Japan has been seeking surrender terms for months. The idiot progressive Truman and the fascist FDR demanded unconditional surrender leading to thousands of unnecessary deaths by both sides.

    Japan was done by July '45. They were incapable of continuing the war. Their navy and air force were gone. We have complete control of air and sea.

    The bombing was NOT about winning the war. It was about showing the world our power and it was hoped, scare Stalin (how the hell did we align ourselves with histories greatest tyrant and murderer???), which of course, failed.

    Immoral and unnecessary.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  4. whitehall
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    whitehall Gold Member

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    By the time we dropped the two Bombs Japan was already defeated. It's once powerful navy hardly existed except for a few rogue subs. Before he died FDR left instructions not to negotiate with Japan under any conditions and "give 'em hell Harry followed the instructions even though Japan was so desperate for surrender terms that they contacted Stalin (who was a US ally). The big hangup about surrender terms was the preservation of the Emperor and not executing him but Truman refused to talk. The ironic thing was that the Emperor was preserved anyway after we incinerated two cities with a horrific weapon. Life was cheap during WW2 and we Americans have been taught that the wholesale killing of civilians to force a crazy regime to surrender was a legitimate concept. Maybe it was but we have to acknowledge what we did and the mistakes we made along the way.
     
  5. gipper
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    gipper Libertarian/Anarchist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I think we need to realize that war is a way for the state to gain more power. Progressives like Wilson and FDR were all about power. Both did all they could to get an isolationist nation into war including many unconstitutional things. Allowing politicians to take us to war almost always leads to big problems...see Korean War, Vietnam War, Iraq War....Lincoln may have been the worst of all as he prosecuted a war against Americans.

    War is the tool of the tyrant.

    I see a typo in my earlier post. It should read: The a-bombings were immoral and unnecessary.
     
  6. whitehall
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    whitehall Gold Member

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    You miss the point deadhead. War is a way of protecting a Nation from it's enemies. Japan was a cruel nation that enslaved most of Southeast Asia and the Philippines. The problem was that America had such inept leadership that both Japan and Nazi Germany thrived during FDR's first three terms. The US had virtually no intelligence network or coherent foreign policy and the dirty little secret is that FDR may have underestimated Japan's military might to such an extent that the administration actually invited a Japanese attack to get into the "real war" in Europe.
     
  7. gipper
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    gipper Libertarian/Anarchist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I am afraid you miss the point. The debate was about whether the a-bombings were necessary. I have stated why I think they were not. You have cited things entirely unrelated.
     
  8. martybegan
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    martybegan Gold Member

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    In actual effect the atom bombs produced devistation no different from the bombing of other cities during WWII, except it only took one bomb per city. The fire bombing of tokyo was far more destructive, but isnt given as much attention as it took hundreds of bombers to create the same effect.

    We gave Japan the same conditions we gave Germany. Germany capitulated, Japan did not. While Japan was near defeat, thier millitary leadership was determined to go down fighting, and stuck to the concept that if they caused enough casualties on the invasion beaches, they could get away with negotiated terms. They also wanted to maintain thier army, have no occupation, try thier own war criminals, and handle thier own disarmament, above and beyond thier requirement for immunity for the emperor.

    If Japan didnt surrender, the options were blockade, further coventional air bombing, and invasion. Blockade would result in millions of starvation deaths, conventional air bombing millions of civilian casualties, and invasion millions of casulaties on both sides. With invasion we might have also needed help from the Soviets, and guess what they would have asked for. Imagine a cold war with a "North and South" Japan.
     
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  9. Artevelde
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    Artevelde Senior Member

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    This is stupid and false. Japan was not ready to surrender.

    The use of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved countless lives.
     
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  10. Unkotare
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    Unkotare Diamond Member

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    When people need to insist that the question is simple, it is very telling.
     

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