30 year old decides not to buy health insurance

[Care4all]

I recently ... 4 months ago caught my hand in a molder and got 3 fingers good including bone. I went to the emergency care as it was close by and after filling out a ton of forms was asked if I had insurance. I was the asked if it was good insurance and told good ... you will be ok and get to keep your fingers ... my friend and I looked at each other SHOCKED !! WTF
I have all digits and most use because I pay for my insurance if I didn't they would be gone.

this is true.

people without insurance get minimal care, they do not get the best of the best or even close to that....people poor enough on medicaid, would get the same care, and keep their fingers, but not the one without insurance...in most cases.

 

[pete]

Sure I will be paying the bill, just like now

OK ... so whats the difference? Why is the health care bill needed ... oh so they can CONTROL it and they do so good when they control things!!

with the health care bill, he will be forced to buy insurance....so the 6 months cost will not come on down to you and me....?

and those that still can not afford it ....?

 

[pete]

I recently ... 4 months ago caught my hand in a molder and got 3 fingers good including bone. I went to the emergency care as it was close by and after filling out a ton of forms was asked if I had insurance. I was the asked if it was good insurance and told good ... you will be ok and get to keep your fingers ... my friend and I looked at each other SHOCKED !! WTF
I have all digits and most use because I pay for my insurance if I didn't they would be gone.

this is true.

people without insurance get minimal care, they do not get the best of the best or even close to that....people poor enough on medicaid, would get the same care, and keep their fingers, but not the one without insurance...in most cases.

Not totally true because against their oath they will be forced to chose the least expensive method of care. From the doctors themselves.

 

[Care4all]

I recently ... 4 months ago caught my hand in a molder and got 3 fingers good including bone. I went to the emergency care as it was close by and after filling out a ton of forms was asked if I had insurance. I was the asked if it was good insurance and told good ... you will be ok and get to keep your fingers ... my friend and I looked at each other SHOCKED !! WTF
I have all digits and most use because I pay for my insurance if I didn't they would be gone.

this is true.

people without insurance get minimal care, they do not get the best of the best or even close to that....people poor enough on medicaid, would get the same care, and keep their fingers, but not the one without insurance...in most cases.

Not totally true because against their oath they will be forced to chose the least expensive method of care. From the doctors themselves.

you mean, due to Insurance company arrangements that dictate what they will pay for....?

 

[dblack]

Didn't see my answer on the list, which is:

Whoever wants to.

 

[dblack]

The question is not who should pay but who will pay. And the answer is all of us who pay insurance premiums or otherwise access healthcare, as the hospital will pass on the cost of care for the 30-year-old to other consumers.

Why?

 

[Truthmatters]

its the system we have

 

[uscitizen]

NINH
NO insurance no hospital.

It was a bad business decision on the hospitals part to take him in?

 

[geauxtohell]

That 30 year old who decides not to buy health insurance ends up needing 6-months of hospitalization. Who should pay?

On principle, he should pay. And hospitals make a weak attempt at collection, but never pursue it too far.

Pragmatically, the cost will be written off and then spread out across those who can pay. That's how hospitals operate. They could sue him for his medical care, but that would put hospitals in the unenviable position of forcing patients into bankruptcy and having possession over their assets, to include property. In short, hospitals would have to have huge financial wings to simply handle trying to collect bad debt (where "breaking even" is considered a win).

On the larger policy issue, that discourages the sick people from seeking care, which is counter to the hospital's mission.

So, instead, the debt is written off and the people who can pay end up paying more for their procedures to cover it.

And you guys bitch about any initiative that might require people to have health insurance. It doesn't really matter, we can either try and fix it now or wait for the system to implode. The current model is non-operational.

As for "letting him die in the waiting room". That's a violation of federal EMTALA laws as is refusing care for anyone that presents.

You can thank conservative hero Ronald Reagan for that one. He signed it into law.

I actually think it's a good law, but pragmatically, it forces hospitals to treat anyone under penalty of law.

 

[geauxtohell]

That 30 year old who decides not to buy health insurance ends up needing 6-months of hospitalization. Who should pay?

The hospital should bill him.

I realize the left has vested interests in the health insurance companies. After all the dems gave them a gigantic gift. That will ultimately be ruled unacceptable.

But there is no reason I should spend that type of money for years on end on the chance I might get sick.

Paid premiums far exceed any use I have gotten in 15 years. It simply is not cost effective.

And it is for people like you that I make this post.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/4154020-post49.html

Your premiums are jacked because some people are not paying anything. They are not all bad actors either. Staying in the hospital for 3-4 days starts to rack up debt into the tens of thousands.

The hospitals can't "dump" or refuse to care for patient's because of federal EMTALA laws.

So people like you are stuck in the middle.

And hilariously fight tooth and nail against any sort of reform while bitching that your premiums are going up.

BTW, guess who wins with Tort Reform? I'll give you a hint: It's not the patients, the rest of the policy holders, or the doctors.

 

[geauxtohell]

I recently ... 4 months ago caught my hand in a molder and got 3 fingers good including bone. I went to the emergency care as it was close by and after filling out a ton of forms was asked if I had insurance. I was the asked if it was good insurance and told good ... you will be ok and get to keep your fingers ... my friend and I looked at each other SHOCKED !! WTF
I have all digits and most use because I pay for my insurance if I didn't they would be gone.

If that's true, that ED committed an EMTALA violation and it's only a matter of time before they get smacked for it.

1. Name and one other identifier at triage
2. Patients who are not triaged to the back my have routine registration that does not discourage the patient from completing care (Comment: If you have a conditions of admission form with guarantors, personal liability statement, and assignment of benefits, you are at risk for financial discussions and resulting patient departures. CMS has indicated that any system that induces departures will be at risk for citation for violating EMTALA.)
3. You MAY ask for insurance information and copy the card
4. You are strongly DISCOURAGED from any financial discussions at this point
5. If the patient asks about financial issues, you are to say that finances can be dealt with following care
6. If the patient continues to insist, the best practices indicate that a financial person experienced in EMTALA should hold that conversation (Comment: I strongly recommend that physicians and nurses NOT DISCUSS any financial issues with the patient at any time)
7. You may contact a physician for medical purposes at any time, but not for gatekeeper permission to treat (Comment: private physicians should be contacted only where there is a documented medical need, and no request by the PCP to send the patient to the office should be granted.)
8. You may contact the insurance company after care is initiated (although most now do not require that), but if permission to treat or admit is DENIED, you still must provide the care. (So why call?)
9. It is not required, but is considered a prudent approach, to separate the financial face sheet from the treatment record, so the treating physician is not aware of denials or types of insurance.
10. Once the patient has had an MSE and is stabilized and/or admitted or the patient is determined not to have any emergency medical condition under the law, completion of registration and financial discussions may occur without EMTALA restrictions.

EMTALA/EMTALA Resources for hospitals

That will be a cool $50,000 fine.

 

[Care4all]

OK ... so whats the difference? Why is the health care bill needed ... oh so they can CONTROL it and they do so good when they control things!!

with the health care bill, he will be forced to buy insurance....so the 6 months cost will not come on down to you and me....?

and those that still can not afford it ....?

they pay a yearly penalty, that goes in to our tax funds, which partially pay for the services he receives on the gvt's tax bill of it....but the remaining bill due to the hospital, he can still claim bankruptcy....and the prices go up on hospital services for others, to recoup....just as before, I presume

 

[geauxtohell]

I recently ... 4 months ago caught my hand in a molder and got 3 fingers good including bone. I went to the emergency care as it was close by and after filling out a ton of forms was asked if I had insurance. I was the asked if it was good insurance and told good ... you will be ok and get to keep your fingers ... my friend and I looked at each other SHOCKED !! WTF
I have all digits and most use because I pay for my insurance if I didn't they would be gone.

this is true.

people without insurance get minimal care, they do not get the best of the best or even close to that....people poor enough on medicaid, would get the same care, and keep their fingers, but not the one without insurance...in most cases.

Pragmatically, Medicaid patients are also presenting to teaching hospitals which tend to be tertiary care and level one trauma centers with massive residency programs.

Part of the extensive care they get is due to the fact that residents are training on them as they need too in order to go on and be licensed.

So, it's not quite as unfair as people make it out to be. If people want to go on medicaid and deal with a medical student and three residents before they see an attending physicians, go for it.

 

[geauxtohell]

NINH
NO insurance no hospital.

It was a bad business decision on the hospitals part to take him in?

People who say stuff like that are completely ignorant of how healthcare works. I don't claim to be an expert at all, but I do at least know it's federal law that you have to treat patients.

Overturn EMTALA and federal mandates and this becomes a different discussion. But, at this point, the hospital has no choice but to treat them.

(Not that I have a problem with that, just pointing out how clueless some people are).

 

[Care4all]

I recently ... 4 months ago caught my hand in a molder and got 3 fingers good including bone. I went to the emergency care as it was close by and after filling out a ton of forms was asked if I had insurance. I was the asked if it was good insurance and told good ... you will be ok and get to keep your fingers ... my friend and I looked at each other SHOCKED !! WTF
I have all digits and most use because I pay for my insurance if I didn't they would be gone.

If that's true, that ED committed an EMTALA violation and it's only a matter of time before they get smacked for it.

1. Name and one other identifier at triage
2. Patients who are not triaged to the back my have routine registration that does not discourage the patient from completing care (Comment: If you have a conditions of admission form with guarantors, personal liability statement, and assignment of benefits, you are at risk for financial discussions and resulting patient departures. CMS has indicated that any system that induces departures will be at risk for citation for violating EMTALA.)
3. You MAY ask for insurance information and copy the card
4. You are strongly DISCOURAGED from any financial discussions at this point
5. If the patient asks about financial issues, you are to say that finances can be dealt with following care
6. If the patient continues to insist, the best practices indicate that a financial person experienced in EMTALA should hold that conversation (Comment: I strongly recommend that physicians and nurses NOT DISCUSS any financial issues with the patient at any time)
7. You may contact a physician for medical purposes at any time, but not for gatekeeper permission to treat (Comment: private physicians should be contacted only where there is a documented medical need, and no request by the PCP to send the patient to the office should be granted.)
8. You may contact the insurance company after care is initiated (although most now do not require that), but if permission to treat or admit is DENIED, you still must provide the care. (So why call?)
9. It is not required, but is considered a prudent approach, to separate the financial face sheet from the treatment record, so the treating physician is not aware of denials or types of insurance.
10. Once the patient has had an MSE and is stabilized and/or admitted or the patient is determined not to have any emergency medical condition under the law, completion of registration and financial discussions may occur without EMTALA restrictions.

EMTALA/EMTALA Resources for hospitals

That will be a cool $50,000 fine.

thank you. I honestly did not know that, or remember that...

 

[Full-Auto]

That 30 year old who decides not to buy health insurance ends up needing 6-months of hospitalization. Who should pay?

The hospital should bill him.

I realize the left has vested interests in the health insurance companies. After all the dems gave them a gigantic gift. That will ultimately be ruled unacceptable.

But there is no reason I should spend that type of money for years on end on the chance I might get sick.

Paid premiums far exceed any use I have gotten in 15 years. It simply is not cost effective.

And it is for people like you that I make this post.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/4154020-post49.html

Your premiums are jacked because some people are not paying anything. They are not all bad actors either. Staying in the hospital for 3-4 days starts to rack up debt into the tens of thousands.

The hospitals can't "dump" or refuse to care for patient's because of federal EMTALA laws.

So people like you are stuck in the middle.

And hilariously fight tooth and nail against any sort of reform while bitching that your premiums are going up.

BTW, guess who wins with Tort Reform? I'll give you a hint: It's not the patients, the rest of the policy holders, or the doctors.

My premiums were jacked because of namby pamby cry babies that think insurance should cover all of their wants. This brand of insurance is not allowed to act like insurance. I insure against accidents not for subsidizing an office visit.................

 

[geauxtohell]

The hospital should bill him.

I realize the left has vested interests in the health insurance companies. After all the dems gave them a gigantic gift. That will ultimately be ruled unacceptable.

But there is no reason I should spend that type of money for years on end on the chance I might get sick.

Paid premiums far exceed any use I have gotten in 15 years. It simply is not cost effective.

And it is for people like you that I make this post.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/4154020-post49.html

Your premiums are jacked because some people are not paying anything. They are not all bad actors either. Staying in the hospital for 3-4 days starts to rack up debt into the tens of thousands.

The hospitals can't "dump" or refuse to care for patient's because of federal EMTALA laws.

So people like you are stuck in the middle.

And hilariously fight tooth and nail against any sort of reform while bitching that your premiums are going up.

BTW, guess who wins with Tort Reform? I'll give you a hint: It's not the patients, the rest of the policy holders, or the doctors.

My premiums were jacked because of namby pamby cry babies that think insurance should cover all of their wants. This brand of insurance is not allowed to act like insurance. I insure against accidents not for subsidizing an office visit.................

Apparently it does. What, did you think you were going to be immune from the cost of treating the whole group of insured patients under your plan when you threw your money in the kitty?

How do you think insurance works? Might as well do some preventative care and get your money's worth.

At any rate, your complaint is specific to your provider. Not the nation at large.

 

[percysunshine]

The Hippocratic Oath is taken by professional doctors.

Why they named it after an over weight land mammal is beyond me.

 

[geauxtohell]

Oh. Anecdotal, but relevant to this. I am a healthy 30 year old with no co-morbidity. My wife is currently pregnant with her own insurance program.

I wanted to switch my health insurance and was denied from two (Blue Cross and another one) insurance agencies because my wife was pregnant. That was the reason. They made no bones about it. Their statement was that "you could put the baby on your policy and we'd be responsible for it".

So I went back to my original plan. I have my doubts that I could get insurance at this point if I hadn't had already been on a plan.

 

[Seawytch]

Simple analogy here...

Which costs more...getting regular oil changes or driving until the car blows up and buying a new engine?