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On what terms? Surrender and there will be peace?He will, he has offered several peace deals to the government in Kiev.
Right. Think about that. Russia INVADED Ukraine. The war is happening IN Ukraine.Ukraine and NATO don't want peace. . . Ukraine WANTS this war. . .stooge.
Dude. .. compared to me? You are a freekin' n00b. I been here forever. .. Sure, I joined a decade ago just to be here for this.Because he's paid to push Russian propaganda
Look at the idiotic claims YOU have made sock puppet.I know you are fairly intelligent person, but you can't really expect any reasonably intelligent person to take that argument seriously.
I did as well.No, actually, I'm the one that studied logic,…
There have been Russian sock puppets "here" as long as I have been here. The Russian social media "attack" began well before Trump was elected in 2016Dude. .. compared to me? You are a freekin' n00b. I been here forever. .. Sure, I joined a decade ago just to be here for this.
For all I know? You are one of Toro's socks.
Stop already with that foolish bullshit.
You make yourself look like such an idiot.
If you want anyone to take you seriously after this whole thing is over, just. . . .. stahp.
You just keep that up, you are like a parrot or a. . .
And you would of course be wrong. In Ukraine there are actual elections.Ukraine is no more free than the folks in Russia. Stahp.
No, of course peace does not include surrender.On what terms? Surrender and there will be peace?
Right. Think about that. Russia INVADED Ukraine. The war is happening IN Ukraine.
That's like a home invader saying that you WANT that home invasion
No one can ever actually produce a copy of the Budapest Memorandum. Only claims that security assurances are guaranteed. I maintain that comes with some caveats. Why?
Because the closest outline of that Memorandum I have yet dug up? Is this. . .
Primary Sources
Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances, 1994
Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances, 1994
The Presidents of Ukraine, Russian Federation and United States of America, and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom signed three memorandums (UN Document A/49/765) on December 5, 1994, with the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. Through this...web.archive.org
"Excerpt:
"Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,
Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,
Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the cold war, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces,
Confirm the following:
1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;
2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;
3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind;
4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used;
5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State;
6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.
This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.
Signed in four copies having equal validity in the Ukrainian, English and Russian languages."
That makes no such guarantee of security in case of invasion, only it refers to using this, which I maintain, is exactly the OPPOSITE, of escalating violent confrontation.
Source: Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars 1
Final Act of the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe
". . . Accordingly, the participating States will refrain from any acts constituting a threat of force or
direct or indirect use of force against another participating State. Likewise they will refrain from
any manifestation of force for the purpose of inducing another participating State to renounce the
full exercise of its sovereign rights. Likewise they will also refrain in their mutual relations from
any act of reprisal by force.
No such threat or use of force will be employed as a means of settling disputes, or questions
likely to give rise to disputes, between them.. . . "
www.usmessageboard.com
If there was a poisoning. . . we should be suspect of both parties equally, IMO.
I made this statement in a previous post, and after thoroughly going over the thread, I wanted to see if I could dig up who had been threatened or killed. Turned out, yeah, a Ukrainian intelligence officer with links to the far right, had been involved in the death of a negotiator.
Soon after the murder of Denis Kireev, Zelenskyy consolidated all media in Ukraine, so that no one could find out any facts or truth anymore, and banned opposition parties to the far right. The media is now under government control.
" .. . .A day after it was reported that Denys Kireev, the 'traitor', had been killed by the SBU, he was named a hero:"
Reports claim Ukraine negotiator shot for treason; officials say he died in intel op
Local media claimed Denis Kireev was killed during an attempt to arrest him; but defense ministry says he died a 'hero'www.timesofisrael.com
One moment, please...
scooptrade.com
“This act of murder allegedly during detention suggests that the Ukrainian government is split, and there are representatives who still wanted to negotiate and reach some kind of agreement, and there are those who would like to continue fighting, no matter what, and this is a clear indicator: his murder by official structures. This split is deepening,” says Vladimir Zharikhin, deputy director of the Institute of CIS Countries."
Ukrainian President Zelensky deepens alliance with far right
Zelensky is seeking to appoint the notorious neo-Nazi figure Serhiy Sternenko, who was directly involved in the 2014 Odessa massacre, as head of Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) in Odessa.www.wsws.org
"Amidst the ongoing military confrontation with Russia, reports have emerged proving that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is seeking to appoint the far-right Serhiy Sternenko as head of Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) in Odessa, in an attempt to further his alliance with neo-Nazi forces.
As the former head of the neo-Nazi Right Sector in Odessa, Sternenko was directly implicated in the 2014 Trade Unions House massacre of 46 people. He is a convicted criminal and currently under investigation for murder.
Andriy Bohdan, the former head of Zelensky’s administration, confirmed the president’s offer in a Facebook post in response to questions by a reporter with the online news site Strana. When asked if the rumors were true that Zelensky had offered the position to Sternenko, Bohdan replied, “I think he did it right when they were quickly forming a list of government deputies. An acute personnel shortage as they say. . . . ”
Ukraine is brutally repressing the left, criminalizing socialist parties, imprisoning activists | MR Online
Ukraine’s Western-backed government has criminalized socialist political parties, while its Nazi-infiltrated intelligence agencies are hunting down leftists, accusing them of being too soft on Russia. This comes after Kiev gave state honors to WWII-era Ukrainian fascists who collaborated with...mronline.org
". . . Ukraine’s Western-backed government has used Russia’s February 24 invasion to drastically escalate its repression of the left, banning Ukrainian socialist parties and imprisoning left-wing activists.
There are widespread reports of Ukrainian state security services arresting and torturing leftists. Neo-Nazis and far-right extremists have systematically infiltrated Kiev’s police, military, and intelligence agencies since a US-sponsored 2014 coup installed a compliant pro-Western government.
In an early morning speech on March 20, President Volodymyr Zelensky announced that Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council was banning 11 opposition political parties, half of which are left-wing.. . . "
The far right doesn't want peace, and thus, are doing everything possible to sabotage peace talks. . . it would appear.
Our government recognized them as corrupt, here is the Atlantic Council working with them, trying to get them to straighten their crap out . . . .
Securing the home front: SBU reform in Ukraine
Securing the home front: SBU reform in Ukraine
Thirty years after independence, Ukraine continues to reform and modernize its key government institutions, including the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU).www.atlanticcouncil.org
www.usmessageboard.com
Everyone participating in such an operation would be a murderer and the US would be as guilty as Russia for committing atrocities and war crimes.Sorry bout that,
1. I say we grab Mexico.
2. Send troops down the eastern coast, kill anything that moves.
3. Letting them know we are serious.
4. Then we send troops up the west side of Canada, again killing anything that moves.
Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
They are not free elections of parties are banned and candidates are assassinated and threatened from running.And you would of course be wrong. In Ukraine there are actual elections.
I guess you just don't know shit or pay attention.You were relatively quiet until your country invaded Ukraine
For this analogy to work the home invader is invading because you threatened to hire a security company and put up security monitors to prevent you from invading the home in the first place.No, of course peace does not include surrender.
Damn, I can't even communicate with you. Your mind has been so. . . propagandized, you can't even be reached.
Russia wants to have a security structure based on the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe
This was in that Budapest Memorandum, BEFORE NATO offered membership to Ukraine.
Historical background of the conflict in Ukraine
I understood all the ins and outs of this conflict. Historically, in the northern Black Sea region, on the territory of Ukraine, there lived Poles, descendants of the Sarmatians and Turks (true ethnic Turks, Torks), the population of the Hetmanate. Bandera justify their claims to the whole of...
These, were what Russia wants before the invasion;
". . Setting aside the manoeuvres and cynicism of geopolitics, whomever the players, this historical memory is the driving force behind Russia's respect-seeking, self-protective security proposals, which were published in Moscow in the week the UN voted 130-2 to outlaw Nazism. They are:
- NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)
- NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.
- Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.
- the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact. (refer to previous quoted post for this)
- the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)
These amount to a comprehensive draft of a peace plan for all of post-war Europe and ought to be welcomed in the West. But who understands their significance in Britain? What they are told is that Putin is a pariah and a threat to Christendom.. . "
WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA
WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDAjohnpilger.com
And this? This is the Ukraine intelligence services, which is infiltrated by the neo-Nazis, which are beholden to NATO and the West, were sabotaging peace talks, actually assassinating Ukraine negotiators;
Navy electronic attack aircraft heading to Germany
Saw an article on Drudge claiming the Ukraine negotiator was poisoned. Don't know if its legit. If there was a poisoning. . . we should be suspect of both parties equally, IMO. I made this statement in a previous post, and after thoroughly going over the thread, I wanted to see if I could...
Wrong. Russia will not stop with Ukraine.Simple simpleton. The US stops shipping arms, stops pushing NATO to Russia’s border, tells Z to approve Minsk. War over. No more dead Ukrainians and no chance for WWIII. You may think me a genius, but it’s not that difficult my son.
Correct. That's why the US welcomes parties like Al Qaeda and the Taliban.They are not free elections of parties are banned and candidates are assassinated and threatened from running.
The "Gipper" is more of a "gripper".Wrong. Russia will not stop with Ukraine.
Without arming Ukraine and stopping Putin's land grabs there would be no end to his trying to restore the old USSR.
You can think you can throw Ukraine under the bus, but that is a non-starter.
I know you and joe xiden are not geniuses. Far from it.
Yea it is...of course it is.And Russia IS NOT MY NATION, I don't give a shit about it.
The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations."Russia wants to have a security structure based on the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe
This was in that Budapest Memorandum, BEFORE NATO offered membership to Ukraine.
Five yard penalty for unnecessary roughness. Accurate but just mean.The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations."
Fail out the gate Boris
Very foolish. Apparently you WANT WWIII, but you’re too dumb to know it.For this analogy to work the home invader is invading because you threatened to hire a security company and put up security monitors to prevent you from invading the home in the first place.
Russia doesn't get to dictate to NATO or it's prospective member nations.
The only thing Russia has ever had to fear form NATO is that NATO would step in to stop them if they ever invaded another country in Europe.
If you allow Russia to dictate policy in your nation or alliance you've already capitulated to him.
It’s funny how you chicken hawks who consume propaganda that benefits the war profiteers think all Americans should be like you, and the ones who aren’t are traitors.The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations."
Fail out the gate Boris
