All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

[P F Tinmore]

'Hamas is going to survive', warns former US State Department Middle East negotiator • FRANCE 24​

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel's Tel Hashomer Military Base On Blaze; Massive Fire In Tel Aviv Amid Ongoing Fighting | Watch​

 

[P F Tinmore]

This VILE Pro-Israeli Claim Taken Apart​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This VILE Pro-Israeli Claim Taken Apart​

LOL!

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: Sovereignty
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You clearly do not know the meaning of sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

◈ Excerpts: Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law Page 5598-599

territorial sovereignty • This is an aspect of sovereignty , connoting the internal, rather than the external, manifestation of the principle of sovereignty. It is the ‘principle of the exclusive competence of the State in regard to its own territory . . . Territorial sovereignty is, in general, a situation recognized and delimited in space . . . [and] signifies independence. Independence in regard to a portion of the globe is the right to exercise therein, to the exclusion of any other State, the functions of a State.​

◈ Excerpt: Britannica Concise Encyclopedia © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. Page 1792

sovereignty In political theory, the ultimate authority in the decision-making process of the state and in the maintenance of order. In 16th century France JEAN BODIN used the concept of sovereignty to bolster the​

power of the king over his feudal lords, heralding the transition from FEUDALISM to NATIONALISM. By the end of the 18th century, the concept of the SOCIAL CONTRACT led to the idea of popular sovereignty, or sovereignty of the people, through an organized government. The HAGUE CONVENTIONS, the GENEVA CONVENTIONS, and the UNITED NATIONS all have restricted the actions of sovereign countries in the international arena, as has INTERNATIONAL LAW.​

◈ Excerpt: International Boundary Markings, Professional Standards and Practice, Copyright © The International Federation of Surveyors (FIG), December 2013, Kalvebod Brygge 31–33 • DK-1780 Copenhagen V. Denmark Page 69

The international boundary between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan was agreed upon in a Peace Treaty signed on October 26, 1994. But, like many international boundaries in Asia and Africa, this boundary has roots in the Colonial period because in the past the territories of both Jordan and Israel had been under the British Mandate.​

I am quite familiar with the present-day concept of "Sovereignty" and the impact it has on the boundaries that we discuss here. I would like to challenge you to show me a FIG Boundary Marker delineating "Palestine" and any other Territorial Sovereignty. I am not too old to learn.

I have noticed that you have in the past, completely disregarded the findings of the UN Legal Affairs Office on the matter of when I offered it. (See Posting #8107) So I tend to think here (as well) that I am wasting bandwidth offering citations on a topic for which you have already made-up your mind.

I am not saying that your arguments are weak. Nor am I saying my arguments are irrefutable. I am saying that you seldom provide support for your position. You simply throw the premise out there and then demand others to accept it as truth; disregarding any presentation that may be contrary to your.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: Sovereignty
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,


(COMMENT)

◈ Excerpts: Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law Page 5598-599

territorial sovereignty • This is an aspect of sovereignty , connoting the internal, rather than the external, manifestation of the principle of sovereignty. It is the ‘principle of the exclusive competence of the State in regard to its own territory . . . Territorial sovereignty is, in general, a situation recognized and delimited in space . . . [and] signifies independence. Independence in regard to a portion of the globe is the right to exercise therein, to the exclusion of any other State, the functions of a State.​

◈ Excerpt: Britannica Concise Encyclopedia © 2006 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. Page 1792

sovereignty In political theory, the ultimate authority in the decision-making process of the state and in the maintenance of order. In 16th century France JEAN BODIN used the concept of sovereignty to bolster the​

power of the king over his feudal lords, heralding the transition from FEUDALISM to NATIONALISM. By the end of the 18th century, the concept of the SOCIAL CONTRACT led to the idea of popular sovereignty, or sovereignty of the people, through an organized government. The HAGUE CONVENTIONS, the GENEVA CONVENTIONS, and the UNITED NATIONS all have restricted the actions of sovereign countries in the international arena, as has INTERNATIONAL LAW.​

◈ Excerpt: International Boundary Markings, Professional Standards and Practice, Copyright © The International Federation of Surveyors (FIG), December 2013, Kalvebod Brygge 31–33 • DK-1780 Copenhagen V. Denmark Page 69

The international boundary between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan was agreed upon in a Peace Treaty signed on October 26, 1994. But, like many international boundaries in Asia and Africa, this boundary has roots in the Colonial period because in the past the territories of both Jordan and Israel had been under the British Mandate.​

I am quite familiar with the present-day concept of "Sovereignty" and the impact it has on the boundaries that we discuss here. I would like to challenge you to show me a FIG Boundary Marker delineating "Palestine" and any other Territorial Sovereignty. I am not too old to learn.

I have noticed that you have in the past, completely disregarded the findings of the UN Legal Affairs Office on the matter of when I offered it. (See Posting #8107) So I tend to think here (as well) that I am wasting bandwidth offering citations on a topic for which you have already made-up your mind.

I am not saying that your arguments are weak. Nor am I saying my arguments are irrefutable. I am saying that you seldom provide support for your position. You simply throw the premise out there and then demand others to accept it as truth; disregarding any presentation that may be contrary to your.

Most Respectfully,
R

The people have the sovereignty, i.e. the people of a defined territory are the sovereigns of that territory.

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​

Notice that there is no mention of a government or state.

By the end of the 18th century, the concept of the SOCIAL CONTRACT led to the idea of popular sovereignty, or sovereignty of the people, through an organized government.

The creation of governments or states are rights exercised by a sovereign people. Who created the United States of America? It was We The People, was it not? A constitution is a social contract between a sovereign people and the government they created.

You say that sovereignty can be determined by people with money/power/guns. I say it is not.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The people have the sovereignty, i.e. the people of a defined territory are the sovereigns of that territory.

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,​

​

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:​

​

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;​

​

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​

Notice that there is no mention of a government or state.

The creation of governments or states are rights exercised by a sovereign people. Who created the United States of America? It was We The People, was it not? A constitution is a social contract between a sovereign people and the government they created.

You say that sovereignty can be determined by people with money/power/guns. I say it is not.

The people have the sovereignty, i.e. the people of a defined territory are the sovereigns of that territory.

If those Arabs had the sovereignty, why don't they have a country?

The right to self-determination

They had the right, but not the ability.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The people have the sovereignty, i.e. the people of a defined territory are the sovereigns of that territory.

If those Arabs had the sovereignty, why don't they have a country?

The right to self-determination

They had the right, but not the ability.

Irrelevant.


Article 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

International Law Documents | Higher Education from Cambridge University Press

Discover International Law Documents, 1st Edition, Jan Klabbers on Higher Education from Cambridge

www.cambridge.org

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Irrelevant.


Article 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

International Law Documents | Higher Education from Cambridge University Press

Discover International Law Documents, 1st Edition, Jan Klabbers on Higher Education from Cambridge

www.cambridge.org

How's that working out for Kurdistan?

 

[P F Tinmore]

How's that working out for Kurdistan?

Kurdistan never had international borders.

 

[P F Tinmore]

College students on divisions over Israel, safety and what is considered free speech​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Kurdistan never had international borders.

The Kurds have no right to self-determination without external interference?

No right to national independence and sovereignty?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

 

[P F Tinmore]

BREAKING: LIVE From CEASEFIRE Protest as Biden Sends $1 Billion More Weapons to Israel​

 

[Lisa558]

The people have the sovereignty, i.e. the people of a defined territory are the sovereigns of that territory.

If those Arabs had the sovereignty, why don't they have a country?

The right to self-determination

They had the right, but not the ability.

Bingo. In the 15 years since the Jews vacated GAZA, why didn’t the Muslims elect a government that was NOT dedicated to the destruction of Israel but rather a good one that would use the foreign aid it was given to build up a modern country? It wouldn’t be as good as Israel, since of course they’re not as smart and capable, but couldn’t they have made SOME progress in 15 years?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: Sovereignty
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Reading Comprehension!

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

(COMMENT)

STATES are equal.

The West Bank and Gaza Strip are not a STATE.

State: The criteria of statehood → (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other States’: Montevideo Convention

---

Is Palestine a State?​

The International Criminal Court (ICC) answered this question this week, and said no week, and said no.

The Office has been informed that Palestine has been recognised as a State in bilateral relations by more than 130 governments and by certain international organisations, including United Nation bodies. However, tthe current status granted to Palestine by the United Nations General Assembly is that of “observer”, not as a “Non‐member State”. The Office understands that on 23 September 2011, Palestine submitted an application for admission to the United Nations as a Member State in accordance with article 4(2) of the United Nations Charter, but the Security Council has not yet made a recommendation in this regard.

SOURCE: Council on Foreign Relations, by Elliott Abrams, 4 April 2012.

Is Palestine a State?​

Published online by Cambridge University Press: 21 April 2022

Summary​

The Palestinian Authority defines itself as the State of Palestine and has the outward organs of an independent State. The State of Palestine conducts foreign relations, albeit the Oslo accords prohibited the Palestinian authority from doing so. Some States will not recognise another State if it was created as a result of an illegal action. This may be relevant to the consideration of whether Palestine should be recognised as a State. It is a subject of controversy as to whether the State of Palestine has a sufficiently effective government and defined territory to be considered a State in accordance with classical international law definitions. It can be argued that the large number of States and international organisations that recognise and treat Palestine as a State overcomes such deficiencies. The issue of whether Palestine is, at present, a State remains controversial.

---

Give this some thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: Sovereignty
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Reading Comprehension!


(COMMENT)

STATES are equal.

The West Bank and Gaza Strip are not a STATE.

State: The criteria of statehood → (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other States’: Montevideo Convention

---

Is Palestine a State?​

The International Criminal Court (ICC) answered this question this week, and said no week, and said no.

Is Palestine a State?​

Published online by Cambridge University Press: 21 April 2022

Summary​

The Palestinian Authority defines itself as the State of Palestine and has the outward organs of an independent State. The State of Palestine conducts foreign relations, albeit the Oslo accords prohibited the Palestinian authority from doing so. Some States will not recognise another State if it was created as a result of an illegal action. This may be relevant to the consideration of whether Palestine should be recognised as a State. It is a subject of controversy as to whether the State of Palestine has a sufficiently effective government and defined territory to be considered a State in accordance with classical international law definitions. It can be argued that the large number of States and international organisations that recognise and treat Palestine as a State overcomes such deficiencies. The issue of whether Palestine is, at present, a State remains controversial.

---

Give this some thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

More obfuscation.

This completely ignores the information that I post.

 

[Shusha]

The people have the sovereignty, i.e. the people of a defined territory are the sovereigns of that territory.

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,​

​

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:​

​

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;​

​

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​

Notice that there is no mention of a government or state.

The creation of governments or states are rights exercised by a sovereign people. Who created the United States of America? It was We The People, was it not? A constitution is a social contract between a sovereign people and the government they created.

You say that sovereignty can be determined by people with money/power/guns. I say it is not.

You are very poorly trying to fit your square peg into a round hole. You can argue all you want about "a people" having a right to self-determination and sovereignty in some portion of the world's land, but it is all meaningless if those people can't engage that self-determination through the development of the necessary means; namely, a functioning government, the capacity to enter into relations with other States, live peacefully with neighbors.

Even stranger is your demand for a defined territory with international borders as a pre-requisite for a people to have the right to self-determination or sovereignty. Only States have a right to territorial integrity.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You are very poorly trying to fit your square peg into a round hole. You can argue all you want about "a people" having a right to self-determination and sovereignty in some portion of the world's land, but it is all meaningless if those people can't engage that self-determination through the development of the necessary means; namely, a functioning government, the capacity to enter into relations with other States, live peacefully with neighbors.

Even stranger is your demand for a defined territory with international borders as a pre-requisite for a people to have the right to self-determination or sovereignty. Only States have a right to territorial integrity.

Only States have a right to territorial integrity.

That is the point that I have been making.

3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the peoples of Namibia, of the Palestinian people and of all peoples under alien and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without external interference;

Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution - Question of Palestine

35/35. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights A The General Assembly, Recalling its resolutions 2649 (XXV) of 30...

www.un.org

 

[Shusha]

That is the point that I have been making.

3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the peoples of Namibia, of the Palestinian people and of all peoples under alien and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without external interference;

Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution - Question of Palestine

35/35. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights A The General Assembly, Recalling its resolutions 2649 (XXV) of 30...

www.un.org

When Palestine becomes a State, it will have territorial integrity. You've just got the order wrong.