Zone1 YHWH(Jehovah)

[onefour1]

This is why I believe Jesus is the final word for these last days. Hebrews 1:1-2.

God’s Final Word: His Son​

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

The scriptures in James isn't referring to salvation, but evidence of salvation. We are saved by faith in Jesus, then good works naturally follow. All scripture has to be taken in context with other scripture. The problem the cults have is they use one scripture that agrees with their doctrine to attempt to cancel out another scripture that doesn't line up with their doctrine. That's not scholarly.

This is very good explanation of the difference between Old Testament and New Testament prophets.

Prophets: New Testament vs Old Testament | Fountain of Life

To protect yourself from abuse, it's important to understand the office of the New Testament prophet and how this gift DIFFERS from the Old Testament prophet.

www.fountainoflifetm.com

Another problem I have is with polygamy. According to your Covenants book polygamy is an everlasting Covenant. Yet, now it isn't practiced. This is interesting.

Is the "new and everlasting covenant" polygamy or a temple marriage?

We believe there is no difference between a prophet called before the days of Christ and one that is called during or after the days of Christ. They all have the gift of prophesy and are able to receive prophesy from the Lord. We believe that all who are called as apostles are also prophets, seers, and revelators. An example of a prophet that came after Christ was the apostle Paul who predicted the apostasy.

2 Thessalonians 2:2-4
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In this verse, Paul tells us that before the second coming of the Lord, there would be a falling away first. The term "falling away" comes from the Greek word, "apostasia" which is apostasy. Paul also said the following:

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Thus we believe that Paul was a true prophet the same as any prophet in the Old Testament. When God calls one to be a prophet, they are given the spirit of prophesy and the prophesies they prophesy are every bit as true as any given in Old Testament times.

Regarding your question on polygamy. we believe that God at times may command his people to live the law of plural marriage and at other times he may command us not to live it. The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is to enter into an everlasting covenant of marriage. This can entail marrying one person of the opposite sex or many if the Lord commands it. You are not required to marry more than one wife unless it is commanded by the Lord. We believe that Joseph Smith was commanded by the Lord to live the law of plural marriage by the Lord and latter on in our history we were later commanded not to live it by our prophet Wilford Woodruff. In ancient times, Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon were allowed to marry many wives. In the case of Abraham and Jacob, all their wives were acceptable before the Lord. In the case of David, all his wives except Bathsheba were acceptable before the Lord and in the case of Solomon, many of the strange wives he took were offensive to the Lord. You can read the revelation received by the prophet Joseph Smith in Doctrine and Covenants 132. You can also read about the revocation of plural marriage in the Official Declaration 1. Plural Marriage is not a requirement to be exalted into the kingdom of God unless God commands it. The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is nothing more than being sealed up to eternal marriage through the priesthood of God and is performed in our Holy Temples.

 

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We believe there is no difference between a prophet called before the days of Christ and one that is called during or after the days of Christ. They all have the gift of prophesy and are able to receive prophesy from the Lord. We believe that all who are called as apostles are also prophets, seers, and revelators. An example of a prophet that came after Christ was the apostle Paul who predicted the apostasy.

2 Thessalonians 2:2-4
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In this verse, Paul tells us that before the second coming of the Lord, there would be a falling away first. The term "falling away" comes from the Greek word, "apostasia" which is apostasy. Paul also said the following:

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Thus we believe that Paul was a true prophet the same as any prophet in the Old Testament. When God calls one to be a prophet, they are given the spirit of prophesy and the prophesies they prophesy are every bit as true as any given in Old Testament times.

Regarding your question on polygamy. we believe that God at times may command his people to live the law of plural marriage and at other times he may command us not to live it. The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is to enter into an everlasting covenant of marriage. This can entail marrying one person of the opposite sex or many if the Lord commands it. You are not required to marry more than one wife unless it is commanded by the Lord. We believe that Joseph Smith was commanded by the Lord to live the law of plural marriage by the Lord and latter on in our history we were later commanded not to live it by our prophet Wilford Woodruff. In ancient times, Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon were allowed to marry many wives. In the case of Abraham and Jacob, all their wives were acceptable before the Lord. In the case of David, all his wives except Bathsheba were acceptable before the Lord and in the case of Solomon, many of the strange wives he took were offensive to the Lord. You can read the revelation received by the prophet Joseph Smith in Doctrine and Covenants 132. You can also read about the revocation of plural marriage in the Official Declaration 1. Plural Marriage is not a requirement to be exalted into the kingdom of God unless God commands it. The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is nothing more than being sealed up to eternal marriage through the priesthood of God and is performed in our Holy Temples.

Read the link I provided. Brigham Young said that polygamy was an everlasting covenant.

 

[onefour1]

Read the link I provided. Brigham Young said that polygamy was an everlasting covenant.

I read the link. Polygamous marriages, when commanded by the Lord, are entered into through the covenant of marriage and sealed by the priesthood and thus are an everlasting covenant between the man and his wives. However, If the Lord commands us not to live the law of plural marriage, then it is not a requirement to have multiple wives and the marriage between one man and one woman is still an everlasting covenant. In my last post, the actual revelation regarding the New and Everlasting Covenant from the Lord himself is given in Doctrine and Covenants section 132. That revelation is binding on the church. In that revelation, we are told that only one man on earth at a time has the keys to seal on earth and in heaven. The Apostle Peter was given this authority from Jesus.

Matthew 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Thus marriages also can be sealed for time and all eternity through the priesthood. Polygamous marriages are only part of the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage when the Lord commands his people to enter into such relationships. Otherwise, they are to only have one husband and one wife. The restoration of this law of plural marriage was instituted because it was prophesied that a restitution of all things would come about in the dispensation of the fulness of times.

Ephesians 1:10
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

We believe that Joseph Smith is the great prophet of the dispensation of the fulness of times. Through him a restitution of all things was to happen. Thus the law of plural marriage was restored for a time to give us understanding and experience regarding the law which he gave to Abraham and all those ancient prophets who lived under the law of plural marriage. Again Jesus was sent and he restored his church upon the face of the earth.

 

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I read the link. Polygamous marriages, when commanded by the Lord, are entered into through the covenant of marriage and sealed by the priesthood and thus are an everlasting covenant between the man and his wives. However, If the Lord commands us not to live the law of plural marriage, then it is not a requirement to have multiple wives and the marriage between one man and one woman is still an everlasting covenant. In my last post, the actual revelation regarding the New and Everlasting Covenant from the Lord himself is given in Doctrine and Covenants section 132. That revelation is binding on the church. In that revelation, we are told that only one man on earth at a time has the keys to seal on earth and in heaven. The Apostle Peter was given this authority from Jesus.

Matthew 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Thus marriages also can be sealed for time and all eternity through the priesthood. Polygamous marriages are only part of the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage when the Lord commands his people to enter into such relationships. Otherwise, they are to only have one husband and one wife. The restoration of this law of plural marriage was instituted because it was prophesied that a restitution of all things would come about in the dispensation of the fulness of times.

Ephesians 1:10
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

We believe that Joseph Smith is the great prophet of the dispensation of the fulness of times. Through him a restitution of all things was to happen. Thus the law of plural marriage was restored for a time to give us understanding and experience regarding the law which he gave to Abraham and all those ancient prophets who lived under the law of plural marriage. Again Jesus was sent and he restored his church upon the face of the earth.

Brigham Young said polygamy is the everlasting covenant. If polygamy is an everlasting covenant then LDS are not obeying by not marrying multiple wives.

The Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol 11, p. 269

-"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266).

 

[onefour1]

Brigham Young said polygamy is the everlasting covenant. If polygamy is an everlasting covenant then LDS are not obeying by not marrying multiple wives.

The Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol 11, p. 269

-"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266).

Joseph Smith taught that a prophet is only a prophet when he speaks as such (History, 1838–1856, volume D-1 [1 August 1842–1 July 1843] History of Joseph Smith). So, Brigham Young, as a prophet, is only speaking for the Lord when he reveals revelation or prophesy directly from the Lord. Otherwise he, like all men, are giving their opinions. Brigham Young references "the revelation" on polygamy in his JD Vol 11, p. 269 which is the revelation found in Doctrine and Covenants 132 that I have given you reference to. No where in that revelation does it say that you must enter a polygamous relationship unless the Lord commands you. The Lord has never said that polygamy is a standing law at all times in the history of the world. In fact, in the Book of Mormon, there were those who were entering a polygamous relationship outside of his commanding them to do so and they were reprimanded (see Jacob 2 in the Book of Mormon). The Journal of Discourses have never been considered to part of our canon. Our canon of scripture consists of The Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. The think contained therein are considered scripture. We are to use the gift of the Holy Ghost to verify teachings of our leaders. However, they are men and are subject to making mistakes like anyone else. Somehow Brigham Young was under the impression that Adam was God the Father but subsequent prophets have rejected this notion and it can be proved by scripture that he was mistaken. Evidently Brigham Young had some misconception about some of the things he had learned and he was very vocal about his opinions. So, to me, unless a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord by stating "Thus sayeth the Lord" or something similar, I simply consider it as his opinion and may take his word and see if it is consistent with the revelations of God in scripture and pray about it to get a confirmation from the Holy Spirit that it is true.

 

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Joseph Smith taught that a prophet is only a prophet when he speaks as such (History, 1838–1856, volume D-1 [1 August 1842–1 July 1843] History of Joseph Smith). So, Brigham Young, as a prophet, is only speaking for the Lord when he reveals revelation or prophesy directly from the Lord. Otherwise he, like all men, are giving their opinions. Brigham Young references "the revelation" on polygamy in his JD Vol 11, p. 269 which is the revelation found in Doctrine and Covenants 132 that I have given you reference to. No where in that revelation does it say that you must enter a polygamous relationship unless the Lord commands you. The Lord has never said that polygamy is a standing law at all times in the history of the world. In fact, in the Book of Mormon, there were those who were entering a polygamous relationship outside of his commanding them to do so and they were reprimanded (see Jacob 2 in the Book of Mormon). The Journal of Discourses have never been considered to part of our canon. Our canon of scripture consists of The Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. The think contained therein are considered scripture. We are to use the gift of the Holy Ghost to verify teachings of our leaders. However, they are men and are subject to making mistakes like anyone else. Somehow Brigham Young was under the impression that Adam was God the Father but subsequent prophets have rejected this notion and it can be proved by scripture that he was mistaken. Evidently Brigham Young had some misconception about some of the things he had learned and he was very vocal about his opinions. So, to me, unless a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord by stating "Thus sayeth the Lord" or something similar, I simply consider it as his opinion and may take his word and see if it is consistent with the revelations of God in scripture and pray about it to get a confirmation from the Holy Spirit that it is true.

But Joseph Smith is a false prophet.

Can We Trust the Prophecies of Joseph Smith? | Cold Case Christianity

Joseph Smith uttered demonstrably false prophecies. His status as a prophet of God must be removed and with it, the foundation for Mormonism.

coldcasechristianity.com

 

[onefour1]

But Joseph Smith is a false prophet.

Can We Trust the Prophecies of Joseph Smith? | Cold Case Christianity

Joseph Smith uttered demonstrably false prophecies. His status as a prophet of God must be removed and with it, the foundation for Mormonism.

coldcasechristianity.com

According to you and the author of your posted article. However, the argument over the phrase "this generation" would also hold true with the Lord himself as stated in the 24th chapter of Matthew. Here are the verses:

Matthew 24:
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

After describing events that will lead up to his second coming, Jesus stated the above. The author makes excuse as follows:

"But Jesus was not claiming the end would come in the lifetime of his listeners. He said the end would come in the lifetime of those who first saw the signs."

I don't know where he finds this in scripture, but He corroborates this with what Joseph Smith stated in his translation of the verse.

"Even Joseph knew this was what Jesus meant. Joseph retranslated this passage of the gospel in his JST version of the New Testament to say: “Verily I say unto you, this generation, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.”

I am sure that even in the days of the apostles they saw false prophets and other signs. Weren't these things being shown forth at that time? To me, the true meaning of what Christ meant when he said that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled is as follows:

Jesus taught the follow:

Matthew 16:27-28
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Here the Lord tells in no uncertain terms that there some living in that generation that would not taste of death until they see the son of man coming in his kingdom. Jesus also had the following conversation with Peter regarding what the future of John the apostle's future would be.

John 21:20-24
20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

Here Jesus tells us that John the apostle would tarry till he comes. In other words he would live at least up to the time Jesus comes in his second coming. So just from these few verses, we see that there were those in the generation that Jesus spoke these things that would not pass away until they had seen all that he prophesied come to pass.

Now the author of your article states that the meaning of this generation means those that were alive at the time of the prophesy.

"Early Mormon leaders made it quite clear the word “generation” meant those who were alive when the revelation was given in 1832."

If John and others were not to taste of death until they saw the Lord coming in the clouds of heaven for his second coming, surely they would have been alive during the days of the Lord's prophesy and Joseph Smith's prophesy. Surely they would have been apart of every generation up until the second coming of Christ. So any prophesy that states that this generation shall not all pass away until these things be fulfilled would speak the truth up until the coming of Christ. Some believe that the two witnesses of Revelation 11 will be Elijah and John the apostle who never tasted of death. The two witnesses will die just 3.5 days before the second coming of Jesus Christ.

So the prophesy of Joseph Smith could still happen because that generation has not all passed away. Now, concerning the Lord having David W. Patten prepare to fulfill a mission could be a test to David W. Patten to see if he would prepare for that mission. He was not able to fulfill the mission because the enemies of the church shot and killed him before he could go on the mission. Does this lesson the Lord calling him on a mission and having him sell his merchandise and prepare himself? Abraham was commanded of the Lord to sacrifice his son Isaac but never intended for it to be fulfilled. The Lord could simply have tested David to see if he would be faithful in preparing for the mission. Just calling him on a mission does mean that the Lord intended to protect David from being killed.

Prophesies of Joseph Smith

 

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According to you and the author of your posted article. However, the argument over the phrase "this generation" would also hold true with the Lord himself as stated in the 24th chapter of Matthew. Here are the verses:

Matthew 24:
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

After describing events that will lead up to his second coming, Jesus stated the above. The author makes excuse as follows:

"But Jesus was not claiming the end would come in the lifetime of his listeners. He said the end would come in the lifetime of those who first saw the signs."

I don't know where he finds this in scripture, but He corroborates this with what Joseph Smith stated in his translation of the verse.

"Even Joseph knew this was what Jesus meant. Joseph retranslated this passage of the gospel in his JST version of the New Testament to say: “Verily I say unto you, this generation, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.”

I am sure that even in the days of the apostles they saw false prophets and other signs. Weren't these things being shown forth at that time? To me, the true meaning of what Christ meant when he said that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled is as follows:

Jesus taught the follow:

Matthew 16:27-28
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Here the Lord tells in no uncertain terms that there some living in that generation that would not taste of death until they see the son of man coming in his kingdom. Jesus also had the following conversation with Peter regarding what the future of John the apostle's future would be.

John 21:20-24
20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

Here Jesus tells us that John the apostle would tarry till he comes. In other words he would live at least up to the time Jesus comes in his second coming. So just from these few verses, we see that there were those in the generation that Jesus spoke these things that would not pass away until they had seen all that he prophesied come to pass.

Now the author of your article states that the meaning of this generation means those that were alive at the time of the prophesy.

"Early Mormon leaders made it quite clear the word “generation” meant those who were alive when the revelation was given in 1832."

If John and others were not to taste of death until they saw the Lord coming in the clouds of heaven for his second coming, surely they would have been alive during the days of the Lord's prophesy and Joseph Smith's prophesy. Surely they would have been apart of every generation up until the second coming of Christ. So any prophesy that states that this generation shall not all pass away until these things be fulfilled would speak the truth up until the coming of Christ. Some believe that the two witnesses of Revelation 11 will be Elijah and John the apostle who never tasted of death. The two witnesses will die just 3.5 days before the second coming of Jesus Christ.

So the prophesy of Joseph Smith could still happen because that generation has not all passed away. Now, concerning the Lord having David W. Patten prepare to fulfill a mission could be a test to David W. Patten to see if he would prepare for that mission. He was not able to fulfill the mission because the enemies of the church shot and killed him before he could go on the mission. Does this lesson the Lord calling him on a mission and having him sell his merchandise and prepare himself? Abraham was commanded of the Lord to sacrifice his son Isaac but never intended for it to be fulfilled. The Lord could simply have tested David to see if he would be faithful in preparing for the mission. Just calling him on a mission does mean that the Lord intended to protect David from being killed.

Prophesies of Joseph Smith

If you read the words from the people who were present during the life of Joseph Smith in my link you'll see that they understood Smith's prophecy to mean during their lifetime.

 

[onefour1]

If you read the words from the people who were present during the life of Joseph Smith in my link you'll see that they understood Smith's prophecy to mean during their lifetime.

Can you post the quote? I read the article and what I remember was that the author said, ""Early Mormon leaders made it quite clear the word 'generation' meant those who were alive when the revelation was given in 1832."

Surely those who were allowed to not taste of death until they were to see the Lord coming in the clouds of heaven would still have been alive during the days of Joseph Smith and thus would have been considered to be part of that generation according to what the author of the article argues. Thus those, such as John the apostle and others who received the blessing of translation, would have been alive in all generations since they were born clear up until the coming of Christ at his second coming. Thus according to those in Joseph Smith's day, they would have been alive when the revelation was given and thus would have been part of that generation. Thus if you have other information from your link, please post it.

 

[BS Filter]

Can you post the quote? I read the article and what I remember was that the author said, ""Early Mormon leaders made it quite clear the word 'generation' meant those who were alive when the revelation was given in 1832."

Surely those who were allowed to not taste of death until they were to see the Lord coming in the clouds of heaven would still have been alive during the days of Joseph Smith and thus would have been considered to be part of that generation according to what the author of the article argues. Thus those, such as John the apostle and others who received the blessing of translation, would have been alive in all generations since they were born clear up until the coming of Christ at his second coming. Thus according to those in Joseph Smith's day, they would have been alive when the revelation was given and thus would have been part of that generation. Thus if you have other information from your link, please post it.

Read the entire article. The testimonials are near the end.

Can We Trust The Prophecies Of Joseph Smith?​

By
J. Warner Wallace
Published
August 20, 2020

• 
  https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/can-we-trust-the-prophecies-of-joseph-smith/#
  
  

There is an unfortunate legacy of false prophecy related to Joseph Smith, the “prophet” and founder of Mormonism. Just type “False Prophecy of Joseph Smith” into any search engine and you’ll discover what I mean. But there appears to be some confusion surrounding Joseph’s prophesies, and neither Mormons nor non-Mormons seem to examine the claims of prophecy fairly. Non-Mormons point to every prophecy of Joseph in an effort to demonstrate he is a liar, and Mormons try to justify Joseph’s unfulfilled predictions by twisting the laws of prophecy. Let’s take an honest look at the different types of prophesy as they relate to Joseph Smith. Before we begin, we’ll need to examine the different categories of prophecy as they apply to the founder of Mormonism:
Open-dated Prophecies
Let’s begin with the easiest predictions a prophet can make. Open-dated prophecies are given without a specific time frame for their fulfillment:
Example: Joseph Smith predicts in 1835 that, “The coming of the Lord, which was nigh – even fifty-six years should wind up the scene” (History of the Church, Vol. 2 p. 182).
Although the Lord did not return by 1891, Joseph Smith only said fifty-six years “should” wind up the scene. The word “should” provides Joseph with an escape clause; it allows for the possibility something could happen to upset the original time schedule. Therefore, even though the prediction did not come true, this prophecy alone does not necessarily make Joseph Smith a false prophet. Christians cannot look at open-dated prophecies and judge the prophetic status of Joseph Smith.
Self-fulfilling Prophecies
These are prophecies the prophet can fulfill on his own. They require no outside action or event outside the control of the prophet.
Example: The Lord instructs Joseph not to translate any more until he goes to Ohio. (D&C 37:1).
To make this prophecy come true, Joseph Smith simply had to stop translating for a few months. When a prophet has the ability to control the outcome of the prophecy, there is no way to judge whether or not the prophet is true or trustworthy. Just as it is unfair for Non-Mormons to try to use open-dated prophecies against Joseph, Mormons cannot use these types of self-fulfilling prophecies to prove Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.
Conditional Prophecies
These types of prophecies only come true if a certain condition exists. In other words, if a situation changes, the prophecy may also change.

Example: Joseph Smith states that if the people of Ohio repent, they will not be severely judged of the Lord (D&C 64:16-18).
The outcome of this prophecy is conditioned upon the repentance of the people in question. If the people of Ohio were not severely judged, it could be fairly argued they must have sufficiently repented. So this type of prophecy cannot be used by either side to prove anything at all.
Most of Joseph Smith’s prophecies are of the first three types, and while these forms of prophecy are often cited by one side or the other to falsify (or verify) the prophetic stature of Joseph Smith, none are legitimately applicable. There is a fourth kind of prophecy, however, uttered by Joseph Smith. This last form of prophecy can be examined to validate (or invalidate) Joseph’s status as a true prophet:
Close-dated and Unconditional Prophecies
Some prophecies are offered with specificity and must come true within a particular time frame without any mitigating conditions. Although relatively few of Joseph Smith’s prophecies are of this type, they are extremely important because they allow us to test Joseph Smith as a prophet.
Example: Temple in Independence.
In this revelation given on September 22 and 23, 1832, Joseph Smith foretold of an LDS temple to be built in Independence, Missouri. (D&C Section 84):
1. “A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2. Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3. Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.


4. Verily, this is the word of the Lord, and that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5. For verily this generation shall not pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill his house.”
31. …which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the ‘consecrated spot as I have appointed.’”
Verses four and five declare a “temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not all pass away” before the temple will be built. And this temple is to be built in Zion, which is Independence, Missouri. Over one hundred and eighty years later, there is still no Temple on the “temple lot” specified in this prophecy. Early Mormon leaders made it quite clear the word “generation” meant those who were alive when the revelation was given in 1832.
25 years later, Heber C. Kimball still believed it
“They are holy places, and they will be held sacred even as Jackson County..” “and I shall yet see the day that I will go back there, with brother Brigham and with thousands and millions of others, and we will go precisely according to the dedication of the Prophet of the living God. Talk to me about my having any dubiety on my mind about these things being fulfilled.—I am just as confident of it as I am that I am called to be a saviour of men, and no power can hinder it.” (President Heber C. Kimball, December 17, 1857 Journal of Discourses, Vol 6. p. 190).
25 years later, Elias Smith still believed it
“I expect to live to be an old man, and to go back with the saints to the land of Jackson County.” (President B. Young; “God grant it.”) (1857 Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 221)
29 years later, Heber C. Kimball still believed it
“Brethren, I shall go to Jackson County with thousands of this people who will be faithful to their integrity; but we cannot go back until we have built some good houses.” (1861 Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 350, Disclosure by Heber C. Kimball).
29 years later, Elder George A. Smith still believed it
“Who is there that is prepared for this movement back to the center stake of Zion, and where are the architects amongst us that are qualified to erect this temple and the city that will surround it.” “And let me remind you that it is predicted that this generation shall not pass away till a temple shall be built, and the glory of the Lord rest upon it, according to the promises.” (Elder George A. Smith, March 10, 1861, Journal of Discourse, Vol. 9, p. 71).
ADVERTISEMENT. SCROLL TO CONTINUE READING.

32 years later, Elder George Q. Cannon still believed it
The generation in which the revelation was given, which is upwards of thirty years ago.
“The day is near when a Temple shall be reared in the Center Stake of Zion, and the Lord has said his glory shall rest on that House in this generation, that is in the generation in which the revelation was given, which is upwards of thirty years ago.” (Elder George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 344, October 23, 1864).
38 years later, Elder Orson Pratt still believed it
“We have just as much confidence in returning to Jackson County and the building of a great city that will remain there a thousand years before the earth passes away, as the Jews have in returning to Jerusalem and re-building the waste places of Palestine. In fact, we have more faith than they have; for they have been so many generations cast out of their land that their descendants have almost lost their faith in returning. But, the Latter-day Saints are fresh, as it were. There are many of the old stock, who passed through all those tribulations I have named, still living, whose faith in returning to Jackson County, and the things that are coming, is as firm and fixed as the throne of the Almighty.” (Elder Orson Pratt, in a discourse delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, April 10, 1870. Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 138).
“God promised in the year 1832 that we should, before this generation then living had passed away, return and build up the City of Zion in Jackson County; that we should return and build up the temple of the Most High where we formerly laid the corner stone. He promised us that He would manifest Himself on that temple, that the glory of God should be upon it; and not only upon the temple, but within it, even a cloud by day and a flaming fire by night. We believe in these promises as much as we believe in any promise ever uttered by the mouth of Jehovah. The Latter-day Saints just as much expect to receive a fulfillment of that promise during the generation that was in existence in 1832 as they expect that the sun will rise and set to-morrow. Why? Because God cannot lie. He will fulfill all His promises. He has spoken, it must come to pass. This is our faith.” (Elder Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 362, May 5, 1870).
39 years later, Elder Orson Pratt still believed it
“all the people that were living thirty-nine years ago have not passed away; but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled.”…”We just as much expect that a city will be built, called Zion, in the place and on the land which has been appointed by the Lord our God, and that a temple will be reared on the spot that has been selected, and the corner-stone of which has been laid, in the generation when this revelation was given; we just as much expect this as we expect the sun to rise in the morning and set in the evening; or as much as we expect to see the fulfillment of any of the purposes of the Lord our God, pertaining to the works of his hands. But say the objector, “thirty nine years have passed away.” What of that? The generation has not passed away; all the people that were living thirty-nine years ago have not passed away; but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled.” (Elder Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 275., delivered in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, April 9, 1871).
42 years later, Elder Orson Pratt still believed it
“God said, in the year 1832, before we were driven out of Jackson County, in a revelation which you will find here in this book, that before that generation should all pass away, a house of the Lord should be built in that county. (Jackson County). This was given forty-two years ago. That generation then living was not only to commence a house of God in Jackson County, Missouri, but was actually to complete the same. And when it is completed the glory of God should rest upon it.” (Elder Orson Pratt, Interest Manifested, ETO p. 111).

 

[onefour1]

Read the entire article. The testimonials are near the end.

Can We Trust The Prophecies Of Joseph Smith?​

By
J. Warner Wallace
Published
August 20, 2020

• 
  Can We Trust the Prophecies of Joseph Smith? | Cold Case Christianity

There is an unfortunate legacy of false prophecy related to Joseph Smith, the “prophet” and founder of Mormonism. Just type “False Prophecy of Joseph Smith” into any search engine and you’ll discover what I mean. But there appears to be some confusion surrounding Joseph’s prophesies, and neither Mormons nor non-Mormons seem to examine the claims of prophecy fairly. Non-Mormons point to every prophecy of Joseph in an effort to demonstrate he is a liar, and Mormons try to justify Joseph’s unfulfilled predictions by twisting the laws of prophecy. Let’s take an honest look at the different types of prophesy as they relate to Joseph Smith. Before we begin, we’ll need to examine the different categories of prophecy as they apply to the founder of Mormonism:
Open-dated Prophecies
Let’s begin with the easiest predictions a prophet can make. Open-dated prophecies are given without a specific time frame for their fulfillment:
Example: Joseph Smith predicts in 1835 that, “The coming of the Lord, which was nigh – even fifty-six years should wind up the scene” (History of the Church, Vol. 2 p. 182).
Although the Lord did not return by 1891, Joseph Smith only said fifty-six years “should” wind up the scene. The word “should” provides Joseph with an escape clause; it allows for the possibility something could happen to upset the original time schedule. Therefore, even though the prediction did not come true, this prophecy alone does not necessarily make Joseph Smith a false prophet. Christians cannot look at open-dated prophecies and judge the prophetic status of Joseph Smith.
Self-fulfilling Prophecies
These are prophecies the prophet can fulfill on his own. They require no outside action or event outside the control of the prophet.
Example: The Lord instructs Joseph not to translate any more until he goes to Ohio. (D&C 37:1).
To make this prophecy come true, Joseph Smith simply had to stop translating for a few months. When a prophet has the ability to control the outcome of the prophecy, there is no way to judge whether or not the prophet is true or trustworthy. Just as it is unfair for Non-Mormons to try to use open-dated prophecies against Joseph, Mormons cannot use these types of self-fulfilling prophecies to prove Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.
Conditional Prophecies
These types of prophecies only come true if a certain condition exists. In other words, if a situation changes, the prophecy may also change.

Example: Joseph Smith states that if the people of Ohio repent, they will not be severely judged of the Lord (D&C 64:16-18).
The outcome of this prophecy is conditioned upon the repentance of the people in question. If the people of Ohio were not severely judged, it could be fairly argued they must have sufficiently repented. So this type of prophecy cannot be used by either side to prove anything at all.
Most of Joseph Smith’s prophecies are of the first three types, and while these forms of prophecy are often cited by one side or the other to falsify (or verify) the prophetic stature of Joseph Smith, none are legitimately applicable. There is a fourth kind of prophecy, however, uttered by Joseph Smith. This last form of prophecy can be examined to validate (or invalidate) Joseph’s status as a true prophet:
Close-dated and Unconditional Prophecies
Some prophecies are offered with specificity and must come true within a particular time frame without any mitigating conditions. Although relatively few of Joseph Smith’s prophecies are of this type, they are extremely important because they allow us to test Joseph Smith as a prophet.
Example: Temple in Independence.
In this revelation given on September 22 and 23, 1832, Joseph Smith foretold of an LDS temple to be built in Independence, Missouri. (D&C Section 84):
1. “A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2. Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3. Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.


4. Verily, this is the word of the Lord, and that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5. For verily this generation shall not pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill his house.”
31. …which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the ‘consecrated spot as I have appointed.’”
Verses four and five declare a “temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not all pass away” before the temple will be built. And this temple is to be built in Zion, which is Independence, Missouri. Over one hundred and eighty years later, there is still no Temple on the “temple lot” specified in this prophecy. Early Mormon leaders made it quite clear the word “generation” meant those who were alive when the revelation was given in 1832.
25 years later, Heber C. Kimball still believed it
“They are holy places, and they will be held sacred even as Jackson County..” “and I shall yet see the day that I will go back there, with brother Brigham and with thousands and millions of others, and we will go precisely according to the dedication of the Prophet of the living God. Talk to me about my having any dubiety on my mind about these things being fulfilled.—I am just as confident of it as I am that I am called to be a saviour of men, and no power can hinder it.” (President Heber C. Kimball, December 17, 1857 Journal of Discourses, Vol 6. p. 190).
25 years later, Elias Smith still believed it
“I expect to live to be an old man, and to go back with the saints to the land of Jackson County.” (President B. Young; “God grant it.”) (1857 Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 221)
29 years later, Heber C. Kimball still believed it
“Brethren, I shall go to Jackson County with thousands of this people who will be faithful to their integrity; but we cannot go back until we have built some good houses.” (1861 Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 350, Disclosure by Heber C. Kimball).
29 years later, Elder George A. Smith still believed it
“Who is there that is prepared for this movement back to the center stake of Zion, and where are the architects amongst us that are qualified to erect this temple and the city that will surround it.” “And let me remind you that it is predicted that this generation shall not pass away till a temple shall be built, and the glory of the Lord rest upon it, according to the promises.” (Elder George A. Smith, March 10, 1861, Journal of Discourse, Vol. 9, p. 71).
ADVERTISEMENT. SCROLL TO CONTINUE READING.

32 years later, Elder George Q. Cannon still believed it
The generation in which the revelation was given, which is upwards of thirty years ago.
“The day is near when a Temple shall be reared in the Center Stake of Zion, and the Lord has said his glory shall rest on that House in this generation, that is in the generation in which the revelation was given, which is upwards of thirty years ago.” (Elder George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 344, October 23, 1864).
38 years later, Elder Orson Pratt still believed it
“We have just as much confidence in returning to Jackson County and the building of a great city that will remain there a thousand years before the earth passes away, as the Jews have in returning to Jerusalem and re-building the waste places of Palestine. In fact, we have more faith than they have; for they have been so many generations cast out of their land that their descendants have almost lost their faith in returning. But, the Latter-day Saints are fresh, as it were. There are many of the old stock, who passed through all those tribulations I have named, still living, whose faith in returning to Jackson County, and the things that are coming, is as firm and fixed as the throne of the Almighty.” (Elder Orson Pratt, in a discourse delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, April 10, 1870. Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 138).
“God promised in the year 1832 that we should, before this generation then living had passed away, return and build up the City of Zion in Jackson County; that we should return and build up the temple of the Most High where we formerly laid the corner stone. He promised us that He would manifest Himself on that temple, that the glory of God should be upon it; and not only upon the temple, but within it, even a cloud by day and a flaming fire by night. We believe in these promises as much as we believe in any promise ever uttered by the mouth of Jehovah. The Latter-day Saints just as much expect to receive a fulfillment of that promise during the generation that was in existence in 1832 as they expect that the sun will rise and set to-morrow. Why? Because God cannot lie. He will fulfill all His promises. He has spoken, it must come to pass. This is our faith.” (Elder Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 362, May 5, 1870).
39 years later, Elder Orson Pratt still believed it
“all the people that were living thirty-nine years ago have not passed away; but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled.”…”We just as much expect that a city will be built, called Zion, in the place and on the land which has been appointed by the Lord our God, and that a temple will be reared on the spot that has been selected, and the corner-stone of which has been laid, in the generation when this revelation was given; we just as much expect this as we expect the sun to rise in the morning and set in the evening; or as much as we expect to see the fulfillment of any of the purposes of the Lord our God, pertaining to the works of his hands. But say the objector, “thirty nine years have passed away.” What of that? The generation has not passed away; all the people that were living thirty-nine years ago have not passed away; but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled.” (Elder Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 275., delivered in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, April 9, 1871).
42 years later, Elder Orson Pratt still believed it
“God said, in the year 1832, before we were driven out of Jackson County, in a revelation which you will find here in this book, that before that generation should all pass away, a house of the Lord should be built in that county. (Jackson County). This was given forty-two years ago. That generation then living was not only to commence a house of God in Jackson County, Missouri, but was actually to complete the same. And when it is completed the glory of God should rest upon it.” (Elder Orson Pratt, Interest Manifested, ETO p. 111).

Just because many of the members of the church took the prophecy to mean that it would occur in their lifetime does not mean that that is what the prophecy was referring to regarding "this generation". Look back at the prophecy of Jesus. He gave a list of prophecies that were to occur and he also said that that generation would not all pass away until they were all fulfilled. Were they all fulfilled within a 150 years? NO! The gospel had not yet been preached in all the world. Had Jesus come in the clouds of heaven within 150 years? NO! Unless one understands that some who were alive during his time would continue living all the way up to the event of the second coming, that prophesy itself would also be false. I'm sure that some among the disciples of Christ likely interpreted the prophesy to mean that if they lived another 100 to 150 years that all those prophecies would be fulfilled. Yet they weren't. Was Jesus a liar? NO! He gave some the gift of translation that they would live up until he actually did come in the clouds of heaven for his second coming. Regardless of how others interpreted the prophesy it stands true that the generation that was alive in the days when Jesus made the prophesy are and will still be alive clear up until his second coming. Thus that generation did not all pass away. This also holds true for the prophesy of Joseph Smith. If those who were alive from the days of Jesus time on earth were still alive in the days of Joseph Smith, then, according to the interpretation the author of your article gives for what was believed to be a generation, then Joseph Smith's prophesy would hold true on the same principal that Jesus Christ's prophesy held true.

Jesus said, "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (see Matthew 16:28). The word, "some" implies more than one. Through the history of the earth, there have been those who have not tasted death after coming to the earth. We know John was one of those, but Jesus said, "some". We don't know who else was there that received the blessing. It is possible that at any time during the history of this earth's temporal existence that a person could receive the blessing of translation. Can you or the author say with absolute certainty that nobody received the blessing in the days of Joseph Smith or in our current days. We have record of John in the New Testament but not of the others whom Jesus referred to when he said, "some". So, if you want to claim that "this generation" only applies to those born shortly before and during the days of Joseph Smith, you would also have to prove that nobody during his days was translated. Good luck proving that. But the author of your link clearly made it known that what those in the church believed was that, "this generation", meant that it was those alive at the time of the prophesy. Obviously those who were translated in the days of Jesus were still alive during the days of Joseph Smith when he gave his prophesy. So the author of your link, according to what he stated the members of the church believed the word, "generation", meant, ie "Early Mormon leaders made it quite clear the word 'generation' meant those who were alive when the revelation was given in 1832.", includes all that were alive during the revelation. Thus those who were translated in the days of Christ also were still alive and they too were part of that generation. Thus there is evidence that his false prophesy theory is false. The temple in Zion could still be built up until those who have been translated actually do pass away. You can suppose that the thoughts of the members who made comments understood the true meaning of the prophesy but that is not a solid argument against the facts that I have presented. All who were alive during Joseph Smith's prophesy have not all passed away. It is that simple. Those who have been translated in times past who have not passed away are members of all subsequent generations if the meaning of "generation" according to the author of the link's writing is true. It is possible for anyone to miss interpret the meaning of a prophesy if they don't take in all the information that is available. As the prophesy of Christ holds true because of those who were translated, so too does the prophesy of Joseph Smith.

 

[BS Filter]

Just because many of the members of the church took the prophecy to mean that it would occur in their lifetime does not mean that that is what the prophecy was referring to regarding "this generation". Look back at the prophecy of Jesus. He gave a list of prophecies that were to occur and he also said that that generation would not all pass away until they were all fulfilled. Were they all fulfilled within a 150 years? NO! The gospel had not yet been preached in all the world. Had Jesus come in the clouds of heaven within 150 years? NO! Unless one understands that some who were alive during his time would continue living all the way up to the event of the second coming, that prophesy itself would also be false. I'm sure that some among the disciples of Christ likely interpreted the prophesy to mean that if they lived another 100 to 150 years that all those prophecies would be fulfilled. Yet they weren't. Was Jesus a liar? NO! He gave some the gift of translation that they would live up until he actually did come in the clouds of heaven for his second coming. Regardless of how others interpreted the prophesy it stands true that the generation that was alive in the days when Jesus made the prophesy are and will still be alive clear up until his second coming. Thus that generation did not all pass away. This also holds true for the prophesy of Joseph Smith. If those who were alive from the days of Jesus time on earth were still alive in the days of Joseph Smith, then, according to the interpretation the author of your article gives for what was believed to be a generation, then Joseph Smith's prophesy would hold true on the same principal that Jesus Christ's prophesy held true.

Jesus said, "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (see Matthew 16:28). The word, "some" implies more than one. Through the history of the earth, there have been those who have not tasted death after coming to the earth. We know John was one of those, but Jesus said, "some". We don't know who else was there that received the blessing. It is possible that at any time during the history of this earth's temporal existence that a person could receive the blessing of translation. Can you or the author say with absolute certainty that nobody received the blessing in the days of Joseph Smith or in our current days. We have record of John in the New Testament but not of the others whom Jesus referred to when he said, "some". So, if you want to claim that "this generation" only applies to those born shortly before and during the days of Joseph Smith, you would also have to prove that nobody during his days was translated. Good luck proving that. But the author of your link clearly made it known that what those in the church believed was that, "this generation", meant that it was those alive at the time of the prophesy. Obviously those who were translated in the days of Jesus were still alive during the days of Joseph Smith when he gave his prophesy. So the author of your link, according to what he stated the members of the church believed the word, "generation", meant, ie "Early Mormon leaders made it quite clear the word 'generation' meant those who were alive when the revelation was given in 1832.", includes all that were alive during the revelation. Thus those who were translated in the days of Christ also were still alive and they too were part of that generation. Thus there is evidence that his false prophesy theory is false. The temple in Zion could still be built up until those who have been translated actually do pass away. You can suppose that the thoughts of the members who made comments understood the true meaning of the prophesy but that is not a solid argument against the facts that I have presented. All who were alive during Joseph Smith's prophesy have not all passed away. It is that simple. Those who have been translated in times past who have not passed away are members of all subsequent generations if the meaning of "generation" according to the author of the link's writing is true. It is possible for anyone to miss interpret the meaning of a prophesy if they don't take in all the information that is available. As the prophesy of Christ holds true because of those who were translated, so too does the prophesy of Joseph Smith.

A lot of supposition in your response. We're you raised in LDS or converted?

 

[onefour1]

A lot of supposition in your response. We're you raised in LDS or converted?

There is supposition in any argument that backs up the idea that Jesus is the Christ and that he spoke nothing but the truth. One would have to know and prove without any supposition that Jesus is the Christ, that the writers of the gospels spoke the truth and what we know about Christ today is true without an supposition. Many including myself take what we believe about Jesus Christ on faith and not a pure knowledge. So, supposition is included in most all conversations we have in this world.

I was born into an inactive LDS family. They didn't follow the teachings of Christ to a large degree but were not bad people. I never attended church up until I was a teenager. I was invited to play basketball at the ward house and by doing so became friends with those I played with. I was then invited to go to church and later invited to attend seminary classes. I became quite interested in the scriptures and loved the word of God. I became a very active member of the church and at age 19 served a mission for the church. I have been an active member ever since then and strongly believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.

 

[BS Filter]

There is supposition in any argument that backs up the idea that Jesus is the Christ and that he spoke nothing but the truth. One would have to know and prove without any supposition that Jesus is the Christ, that the writers of the gospels spoke the truth and what we know about Christ today is true without an supposition. Many including myself take what we believe about Jesus Christ on faith and not a pure knowledge. So, supposition is included in most all conversations we have in this world.

I was born into an inactive LDS family. They didn't follow the teachings of Christ to a large degree but were not bad people. I never attended church up until I was a teenager. I was invited to play basketball at the ward house and by doing so became friends with those I played with. I was then invited to go to church and later invited to attend seminary classes. I became quite interested in the scriptures and loved the word of God. I became a very active member of the church and at age 19 served a mission for the church. I have been an active member ever since then and strongly believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.

I became a Christian in 1982. I was fortunate to attend a nondenominational Bible school on a scholarship from the Open Door Mission in Omaha, Nebraska. That was it, just study the Bible. I learned everything points to Jesus. He is the completeness of God's message to us. There is no more. The last prophet, Priest, King, etc. Jesus is the beginning and the end. No more Scripture. No more prophets. Nothing added. So I guess I'm not a good candidate or Open to receiving your beliefs. I have also talked to too many ex Mormons who are now Christians.

 

[onefour1]

Whether you are a member of my church or a member of another does not diminish my respect for you as a fellow child of God our Eternal Father in Heaven. You are my spiritual brother and believing in God and our savior Jesus Christ tells me that you are a good man. I have enjoyed the conversations we've had.

 

[BS Filter]

Whether you are a member of my church or a member of another does not diminish my respect for you as a fellow child of God our Eternal Father in Heaven. You are my spiritual brother and believing in God and our savior Jesus Christ tells me that you are a good man. I have enjoyed the conversations we've had.

Same here.