Yellow Ribbons Are For Cowards.

[Eightball]

Do you agree with Thomas Naughton? :nine:

No yellow ribbons here
By Thomas Naughton, Collegian columnist

http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/02/23/421beb6d96af4

February 23, 2005


Guilt can only weigh on a person's mind for so long before they crave the act of purgation; to get the weighty feelings of shame and responsibility out of the mind - or at least the guilty parties attempt to find some kind of peace if they cannot rid themselves of a screaming conscience that implicates and indicts its possessor.

That said, perhaps some readers will understand why my friends and I rip yellow ribbon "support the troops" magnets off of cars or wherever people have affixed them. By ripping off these ribbons, we find a way to deal with our guilt, as though with each ribbon swiped we take back a life that was taken by this senseless war started by our senseless president and those who support him.

I will never say, "support the troops." I don't believe in the validity of that statement. People say, "I don't support the war, I support the troops" as though you can actually separate the two. You cannot; the troops are a part of the war, they have become the war and there is no valid dissection of the two. Other people shout with glaring eyes that we should give up our politics, give up our political affiliations in favor of "just supporting the troops." I wish everything were that easy.

What they really mean is that we should just give up our will, give up our identities, give up our voices to those in power. Perhaps that's just the way people aligned with the right wing choose to get rid of their guilt: blindness and ignorance.

I listen to talk radio very often. It's important to know who your enemies are. The pundits on the radio are the pinnacles of guiltless, shameless wonders, and I am jealous. It must feel good to believe without question, to benefit from the blind belief of young men and women who chose to join the armed forces, to sit in a radio studio in New York and admonish the public to give in like the troops, to just follow orders, to live as just a number that will soon be etched into a gravestone that no one will ever see.

I look into the cars of people with "support the troops" ribbons as I speed past, trying to find some trace of recognition on their face, recognition of their guilt and the fact that they have given up. I usually see nothing; just a mouth moving robotically, singing the pop hits of today or the contemporary country wine of fake cowboys who share a lot with George Bush: no shame.

We say, "support the troops" so that we won't feel guilty about saying "no" to war. We reason that if we say that we support the troops, somehow we aren't monsters for not saying a word when the death tolls of U.S. soldiers climbed above 1,000. Those ribbons are yellow for a reason, they are not the mark of armed forces support, they are the mark of cowards.

Pundits on the radio advise their cowardly listeners to approach men and women in army uniforms and say "thank you." I cannot do that. Every time I pass a person in uniform I look long and hard at them and all I can think inside to say is "I'm so sorry." I want to apologize to them, to their families and to their friends. I feel sorry that we, the people, couldn't control our own government at the outset of this conflict when most of us knew deep inside that it was a mistake.

Where are we now? Are we in a better place? Is the world safer for democracy? No, it is not safer and we are not in a better place. In this war that we are fighting to somehow avenge the deaths of the Sept. 11 tragedy, we have amassed a field of body bags, the number of which almost matches the number killed in the terrorist attacks four years ago. Now, we stare at yet another request for barrels of money for this war by President Bush, while people in our own country search fruitlessly for jobs to feed their starving families, while every public school gets left behind, while our elderly are ensured an uncertain future of unpaid medical bills.

I guess we shouldn't think about those things though, right? We should just buy a yellow magnet and slap it on the butt of our car so we can sleep at night and just let our government do whatever they want. That's supporting the troops, right?

Two years ago my friend Eric called me out of the blue after almost five years of silence between us. We were in a band together when we were teenagers and he had joined the army around the time I was graduating from high school. He had to join the army; he had a son to provide for in the grand tradition of many young members of the armed forces. He called me to tell me that he was going back to Iraq, against his will. He was so sad and angry and scared. He didn't say it, but I know he was calling to tell me that he might die. I didn't say it to him then, but I felt such overwhelming guilt that I couldn't do anything to keep him from going back.

I haven't heard from him since. I don't know if he's dead, and my guilt is alive and well. I hope that all of our family members in harm's way return alive. Until then, I can really honor their sacrifice by demanding that it finally comes to an end.

 

[theim]

At least he doesn't even pretend to put up a fascade and instead tells us what libs really think. The horse's mouth finally speaks.

EDIT: read the end sentence again. Pure, unadulterated BULLSHIT. Why can't this guy just go move to Spain or France or any other country weaklings like himself. "We shouldn't attack terrorists because they might get mad! waaaaaaaah!" "soldiers have died! Pack up! Wars' over! It's not worth it anymore! We should just let the Islamic world turn to facist dictatorships who want to kill westerners! And if we resist being killed, its our fault anyway!"

The lowliest species of insect has the instinct to fight back when attacked instead of curling up and dying. How did this get lost in liberals?

 

[Johnney]

he should feel guilty. sounds like a real piece of shit to me. sounds like hes to much of a pussy to do anything but vandalize peoples personal property.
come rip my shit up and see what happens

 

[theim]

he should feel guilty. sounds like a real piece of shit to me. sounds like hes to much of a pussy to do anything but vandalize peoples personal property.
come rip my shit up and see what happens

don't get mad johnney, its just the normal liberal way of peacefully voicing their opinions.

 

[Johnney]

don't get mad johnney, its just the normal liberal way of peacefully voicing their opinions.

peacefully?

figures he does it this way instead of coming up with any type of answer.

 

[Eightball]

don't get mad johnney, its just the normal liberal way of peacefully voicing their opinions.

You notice that stealing other people's property(ribbons) is ok if your the condescending intellectual, and of course liberal. :nine:

God forbid if you got scratching an "Earth First", or "Kerry/Edwards" sticker off of someone's bumper.

Actually "condescending" is the key word here. We are the stupid, mindless, sheeple, and they are the free thinking, folks with the sensitive conscience. :nine:

 

[tim_duncan2000]

What a piece of shit this guy is. I hope someone catches him in the act of vandalizing their car and beats his ass.

Two years ago my friend Eric called me out of the blue after almost five years of silence between us. We were in a band together when we were teenagers and he had joined the army around the time I was graduating from high school. He had to join the army; he had a son to provide for in the grand tradition of many young members of the armed forces. He called me to tell me that he was going back to Iraq, against his will. He was so sad and angry and scared.

Of course, he never mentions those who joined willingly and believe the US should be in Iraq.

 

[Eightball]

Duncan:

Where did you get that "Kerry, the Depressed Hippie" JPEG? :teeth: I'd love to get that JPEG.

 

[Merlin1047]

No yellow ribbons here
By Thomas Naughton, Collegian columnist

http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/02/23/421beb6d96af4

February 23, 2005


That said, perhaps some readers will understand why my friends and I rip yellow ribbon "support the troops" magnets off of cars or wherever people have affixed them.

Let me catch the coward taking MY ribbon off my car and he'll never use those fingers again.

 

[Shattered]

**wonders if this jackass was in my driveway the day after elections**

 

[Annie]

During the election cycle it seemed cool for the left to say, "We support the troops, it's the policies of the administration that are wrong." Since the end of the election, their true feelings are being expressed. I wonder if the 'real' democrats are noticing?

 

[sagegirl]

I cant agree with everything here but there is some truth to this point. Namely that the hype and rhetoric to go to war gets way charged up, it has to. Slogans, flags, and cheering crowds were the order of the day, while contemplative realistic representations were often dismissed as unpatriotic and unamerican. So when the dead bodies start coming home, we dont want to see them, the POLICY is that out of respect for the families the flag draped coffins not be shown. There is the shame, an American has fought and died for what he or she believed to be a righteous cause and we prefer to turn our heads. We dance in the glory of war but we fear the results. The fact is that WAR, no matter how justified, or righteous we try to make it, reflects our failures.
The matter of supporting the troops is secondary.....war kills, it kills innocents and it kills willing participants. I dont think anybody, (well some of you say you do) wants to see the killing and destruction. Any guilt or any shame regarding our participation is up to the individual. But if you want to put a yellow ribbon on your gas guzzling SUV that says you support the troops I see it as a trivial gesture and an arbitrary indulgence, not patriotism.

 

[Annie]

I cant agree with everything here but there is some truth to this point. Namely that the hype and rhetoric to go to war gets way charged up, it has to. Slogans, flags, and cheering crowds were the order of the day, while contemplative realistic representations were often dismissed as unpatriotic and unamerican. So when the dead bodies start coming home, we dont want to see them, the POLICY is that out of respect for the families the flag draped coffins not be shown. There is the shame, an American has fought and died for what he or she believed to be a righteous cause and we prefer to turn our heads. We dance in the glory of war but we fear the results. The fact is that WAR, no matter how justified, or righteous we try to make it, reflects our failures.
The matter of supporting the troops is secondary.....war kills, it kills innocents and it kills willing participants. I dont think anybody, (well some of you say you do) wants to see the killing and destruction. Any guilt or any shame regarding our participation is up to the individual. But if you want to put a yellow ribbon on your gas guzzling SUV that says you support the troops I see it as a trivial gesture and an arbitrary indulgence, not patriotism.

Gee Sagegirl, you are so swept up with your own opinions and sense of superiority you cannot seem to notice anything that is in opposition to your own prejudicies. Look in USA Chat or the Military thread, you will see no one here has ducked the sacrifice of the military.

 

[sagegirl]

Gee Sagegirl, you are so swept up with your own opinions and sense of superiority you cannot seem to notice anything that is in opposition to your own prejudicies. Look in USA Chat or the Military thread, you will see no one here has ducked the sacrifice of the military.

You are not the first to mention my "sense of superiority" if you guys dont stop it I am going to start believing it. I am only stating an opinion, and I do take the "high" road and it is how I live my life. I do not endure hypocrisy, if the shoe fits wear it. I do believe that slogans and excitement stir up emotion responses rather than responsible behavior. Is it any wonder enlistment is down....war is not a very good advertisement for itself.
I know there are well intentioned people that are fighting and dying with the idea that they are winning freedom and security for those of us at home (whether we support the war or not). I seriously have to wonder if they KNEW they were going to die doing it ,would they still go. It is this solemn reality that I think is purposefully avoided.
Even here, on the boards, there is a surprising lack of tolerance for opposing opinions that prevails and is directly counter to the beliefs and freedoms you so gallantly espouse and endorse. Sometimes I dont think you even understand what it is that you think youre fighting for.

 

[Annie]

You are not the first to mention my "sense of superiority" if you guys dont stop it I am going to start believing it. I am only stating an opinion, and I do take the "high" road and it is how I live my life. I do not endure hypocrisy, if the shoe fits wear it. I do believe that slogans and excitement stir up emotion responses rather than responsible behavior. Is it any wonder enlistment is down....war is not a very good advertisement for itself.
I know there are well intentioned people that are fighting and dying with the idea that they are winning freedom and security for those of us at home (whether we support the war or not). I seriously have to wonder if they KNEW they were going to die doing it ,would they still go. It is this solemn reality that I think is purposefully avoided.
Even here, on the boards, there is a surprising lack of tolerance for opposing opinions that prevails and is directly counter to the beliefs and freedoms you so gallantly espouse and endorse. Sometimes I dont think you even understand what it is that you think youre fighting for.

Read what you wrote and believe it! You are assuming that those that serve are too stupid to understand that they have volunteered to serve in a position that could get them killed! How much hubris do you have anyways?

Then you proceed to the supposition that your way is the 'high way,' at that we are all hypocrits for not agreeing!

 

[sagegirl]

Read what you wrote and believe it! You are assuming that those that serve are too stupid to understand that they have volunteered to serve in a position that could get them killed! How much hubris do you have anyways?

Then you proceed to the supposition that your way is the 'high way,' at that we are all hypocrits for not agreeing!

Wait just a second......do you not find it odd that those in congress dont have kids serving in the military, and those with money are not the ones sending their kids into harms way.....do you not find it odd. The army that we have now is volunteer but it is also the only hope of any opportunity for many unfortunates. Alot of people enlisted with no idea that they would actually be in a war and being shot at, they were told of the many opportunities that would came their way and for which they had little chance at, in our society. Many in the national guard (thats US NG not the Iraq NG) have been called up.)..and how many have been forced to serve over their expected term. It is happening and there are good reasons to be disturbed over it. But never mind ......that would be taking the high road.

You know I dont expect for you to agree with me...I am here to pose a different perspective on these issues. I am surprised sometimes with the responses that are more anger than any sort of discussion or debate. Mostly what I see is an attitude .

 

[Annie]

Wait just a second......do you not find it odd that those in congress dont have kids serving in the military, and those with money are not the ones sending their kids into harms way.....do you not find it odd. The army that we have now is volunteer but it is also the only hope of any opportunity for many unfortunates. Alot of people enlisted with no idea that they would actually be in a war and being shot at, they were told of the many opportunities that would came their way and for which they had little chance at, in our society. Many in the national guard (thats US NG not the Iraq NG) have been called up.)..and how many have been forced to serve over their expected term. It is happening and there are good reasons to be disturbed over it. But never mind ......that would be taking the high road.

You know I dont expect for you to agree with me...I am here to pose a different perspective on these issues. I am surprised sometimes with the responses that are more anger than any sort of discussion or debate. Mostly what I see is an attitude .

Lack of discussing is not something that has been hurled at me much around here. You still don't get it,

there are good reasons to be disturbed over it. But never mind ......that would be taking the high road.

You really don't. There are reasons that others are finding you condescending at best and closed minded at worse.

 

[Johnney]

Wait just a second......do you not find it odd that those in congress dont have kids serving in the military, and those with money are not the ones sending their kids into harms way.....do you not find it odd.

and here i thought the draft was over.

 

[Annie]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2005/02/24/cstillwell.DTL

OPINION: The Making Of A 9/11 Republican
- Cinnamon Stillwell
Thursday, February 24, 2005

As one of a handful of Bay Area conservative columnists, I'm no stranger to pushing buttons. Indeed, I welcome feedback from readers, whether positive or negative. I find the interplay stimulating, but I am often bemused by the stereotypical assumptions made by my critics on the left. It's not enough to simply disagree with my views; I have to be twisted into a conservative caricature that apparently makes opponents feel superior. They seem not to have considered that it's possible to put forward different approaches to various societal problems and not be the devil incarnate.

But in some ways I understand where this perspective comes from, because I once shared it. I was raised in liberal Marin County, and my first name (which garners more comments than anything else) is a direct product of the hippie generation. Growing up, I bought into the prevailing liberal wisdom of my surroundings because I didn't know anything else. I wrote off all Republicans as ignorant, intolerant yahoos. It didn't matter that I knew none personally; it was simply de rigueur to look down on such people. The fact that I was being a bigot never occurred to me, because I was certain that I inhabited the moral high ground.

Having been indoctrinated in the postcolonialist, self-loathing school of multiculturalism, I thought America was the root of all evil in the world. Its democratic form of government and capitalist economic system was nothing more than a machine in which citizens were forced to be cogs. I put aside the nagging question of why so many people all over the world risk their lives to come to the United States. Freedom of speech, religious freedom, women's rights, gay rights (yes, even without same-sex marriage), social and economic mobility, relative racial harmony and democracy itself were all taken for granted in my narrow, insulated world view.

So, what happened to change all that? In a nutshell, 9/11. The terrorist attacks on this country were not only an act of war but also a crime against humanity. It seemed glaringly obvious to me at the time, and it still does today. But the reaction of my former comrades on the left bespoke a different perspective. The day after the attacks, I dragged myself into work, still in a state of shock, and the first thing I heard was one of my co-workers bellowing triumphantly, "Bush got his war!" There was little sympathy for the victims of this horrific attack, only an irrational hatred for their own country.

As I spent months grieving the losses, others around me wrapped themselves in the comfortable shell of cynicism and acted as if nothing had changed. I soon began to recognize in them an inability to view America or its people as victims, born of years of indoctrination in which we were always presented as the bad guys.

Never mind that every country in the world acts in its own self-interest, forms alliances with unsavory countries -- some of which change later -- and are forced to act militarily at times. America was singled out as the sole guilty party on the globe. I, on the other hand, for the first time in my life, had come to truly appreciate my country and all that it encompassed, as well as the bravery and sacrifices of those who fight to protect it.

Thoroughly disgusted by the behavior of those on the left, I began to look elsewhere for support. To my astonishment, I found that the only voices that seemed to me to be intellectually and morally honest were on the right. Suddenly, I was listening to conservative talk-show hosts on the radio and reading conservative columnists, and they were making sense. When I actually met conservatives, I discovered that they did not at all embody the stereotypes with which I'd been inculcated as a liberal.

Although my initial agreement with voices on the right centered on the war on terrorism, I began to find myself in concurrence with other aspects of conservative political philosophy as well. Smaller government, traditional societal structures, respect and reverence for life, the importance of family, personal responsibility, national unity over identity politics and the benefits of living in a meritocracy all became important to me. In truth, it turns out I was already conservative on many of these subjects but had never been willing to admit as much.

In my search for like-minded individuals, I also gravitated toward the religiously observant. This was somewhat revolutionary, considering my former liberal discomfort with religious folk, but I found myself in agreement on a number of issues. When it came to support for Israel, Orthodox Jews and Christian Zionists were natural allies. As the left rained down vicious attacks on Israel, commentators on the right (with the exception of Pat Buchanan and his ilk) became staunch supporters of the nation. The fact that I'm not a particularly religious person myself had little bearing on this political relationship, for it's entirely possible to be secular and not be antireligious. Unlike the secular fundamentalists who make it their mission in life to destroy all vestiges of America's Judeo-Christian heritage, I have come to value this legacy.

So I became what's now commonly known as a "9/11 Republican." Living in a time of war, disenchanted with the left and disappointed with the obstructionism and lack of vision of the Democratic Party, I threw in my hat with the only party that seemed to be offering solutions, rather than simply tearing away at our country. I went from voting for Ralph Nader in 2000 to proudly casting my ballot for George W. Bush in 2004. This doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with Bush on every issue, but there is enough common ground to support his party overall. In the wake of this political transformation, I discovered that I was not alone. It turned out that there are other 9/11 Republicans out there, both in the Bay Area and beyond, and they have been coming out of the woodwork.

Like many a political convert, I took it on myself to openly oppose the politics of those with which I once shared world views. Beyond writing, I put myself on the front lines of this ideological battle by taking part in counterprotests at the antiwar rallies leading up to the war in Iraq. This turned out to be a further wake-up call, because it was there that I encountered more intolerance than ever before in my life. Holding pro-Iraq-liberation signs and American flags, I was spat on, called names, intimidated, threatened, attacked, cursed and, on a good day, simply argued with. It was clear that any deviation from the prevailing leftist groupthink of the Bay Area was considered a threat to be eliminated as quickly as possible.Kind of like the Yellow Ribbon Ripping!

It was at such protests that I also had my first real brushes with anti-Semitism. The anti-Israel sentiment on the left -- inexorably linked to anti-Americanism -- ran high at these events and boiled over into Jew hatred on more than one occasion. The pro-Palestinian sympathies of the left had led to a bizarre commingling of pacifism, Communism and Arab nationalism. So it was not uncommon to see kaffiyeh-clad college students chanting Hamas slogans, graying hippies wearing "Intifada" T-shirts, Che Guevera backpacks, and signs equating Zionism with Nazism, all against a backdrop of peace, patchouli and tie-dye.

Being unapologetically pro-Israel, I was called every name in the book, from "Zionist pig" to "Zionist scum," and was once told that those with European origins such as myself couldn't really be Jewish. In the end, the blatant anti-Semitism on the left, even among Jews, only strengthened my political transformation. I was, in effect, radicalized by the radicals.

But more than anything, it was the left's hypocrisy when it came to the war on terrorism that made me turn rightward after 9/11. I remember, back in my liberal days, being fiercely opposed to the Taliban and its brutal treatment of women. Even then, I felt that Afghanistan should immediately be liberated, as Malcolm X once said in another context, by any means necessary. But when it came time, it turned out that the left was mostly opposed to such liberation, whether of the Afghan people or of the Iraqis (especially if America and a Republican president were at the helm).

Indeed, liberals had become strangely conservative in their fierce attachment to the status quo. In contrast, the much-maligned neoconservatives (among whose ranks I count myself) and Bush had become the "radicals," bringing freedom and democracy to the despotic Middle East. Is it any wonder that in such a topsy-turvy world, I found myself in agreement with those I'd formerly denounced?

The war on terrorism is nothing more than the great struggle of our time, and, like the earlier ones against fascism and totalitarianism, we ignore it at our peril. Whether or not one accepts that we are engaged in a war, our enemies have declared it so. It took the horrors of 9/11 to awaken me to this reality, but for others, such lessons remain unlearned. For me, it was self-evident that in Islamic terrorism, America had found a nihilistic threat that sought to wipe out not only Western civilization but also civilization itself.

The Islamists have been clear all along about their plans to form an Islamic caliphate and inhabit the entire world with burqas, stonings, amputations, honor killings and a lack of religious and political freedom. Whether or not to oppose such a movement should have been a no-brainer, especially for self-proclaimed "progressives." Instead, they have extended their misguided sympathies to tyrants and terrorists.

In the end, history will be the judge, and each of us will have to think about what legacy we wish to leave to future generations. If there's one thing I've learned since 9/11, it's that it's never too late to alter one's place in the great scheme of things.

 

[Merlin1047]

Wait just a second......do you not find it odd that those in congress dont have kids serving in the military, and those with money are not the ones sending their kids into harms way.....do you not find it odd. The army that we have now is volunteer but it is also the only hope of any opportunity for many unfortunates. Alot of people enlisted with no idea that they would actually be in a war and being shot at, they were told of the many opportunities that would came their way and for which they had little chance at, in our society. Many in the national guard (thats US NG not the Iraq NG) have been called up.)..and how many have been forced to serve over their expected term. It is happening and there are good reasons to be disturbed over it. But never mind ......that would be taking the high road.

You know I dont expect for you to agree with me...I am here to pose a different perspective on these issues. I am surprised sometimes with the responses that are more anger than any sort of discussion or debate. Mostly what I see is an attitude .

You leftist folks need to adopt Sponge Bob Square Pants as your mascot. You soak up any inane talking point hatched by the DNC, Michael Moore or Moveon.org and spout it back out as if it were a gem of wisdom.

I really get sick of crap like this "do you not find it odd that those in congress dont have kids serving in the military, and those with money are not the ones sending their kids into harms way"

HELL NO, I don't find it odd. Parents don't "send" their kids into the military. In case you have failed to notice - it's an all VOLUNTEER force. People are in the military because they WANT TO BE THERE - not because anyone "sent" them. Can you finally try to get that to penetrate the obviously dense bony layer which seems to be impeding your cognitive faculties???

And where the hell did you get this conclusion - "Many in the national guard (thats US NG not the Iraq NG) have been called up.)..and how many have been forced to serve over their expected term."? "Forced"??? That's a total crock. When you sign up in the Guard or Reserves, you should know that it's not for weekend socials, you are joining the military - albeit part time and you agree to serve as needed. Nobody "forced" anyone to join. We've been training and paying these folks for lots of years and now you want to whine about the fact that they have to serve. I sympathize with them in regard to the disruption of their lives caused by a deployment - but that's the way the crumbling cookie bounces.

Finally, I don't believe that you personally are an unpatriotic person. But the fact is that many who share your views care only about themselves and nothing about their country. What occasionally irritates me about your views is that you seem to be entirely to pacifist and you appear to suffer selective retention. You claim that we do not want to acknowledge the dead returning from Iraq, yet you would forget the dead from Sep 11. You would forget our troops who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan and have us cut and run, making a hollow mockery of the sacrifice of those who won't be coming home. You want to forget the attacks on our Marines in Lebanon, the attack on the Cole, the attacks in Mogadishu and all those others too numerous to mention. You even refuse to acknowledge that we are at war, instead you want to characterize this as reckless adventursim by the Bush administration. You want to paint us as the agressor when in fact we have been under attack by moslem scum for over thirty years.

Finally, it appears to me that you want to seize upon any excuse to hide here at home, pretend that there is no moslem threat and do absolutely nothing. THAT is what really winds my watch. If you are being attacked by an enemy, you don't hide in your castle and wait for him to come to you. You go out to meet him and preferably do battle on his own home ground. That is what we are doing and if we intend to win this war, that is what we must continue to do. Perhaps someday even you will learn that the threat posed by moslem terrorists will not go away simply by pretending it isn't there or by ignoring it.

So if from time to time I get a little heated, it's not that I dislike you, but your narrow views and turn-the-other-cheek philosophy do tend to frustrate the living shit out of me.