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“The Canaanites. Their History and Culture” “Certainly the most famous kingdom in the land of Canaan was Israel. Israelite history and culture was an extension of Canaanite culture.”
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Writer Abdullah al-Hadlaq: Palestine never existed. Jews’ ownership of Israel confirmed by the Quran
- Thread starter MartyNYC
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- #22
Muslims have zero connection to Abraham. Abraham was Father of the Jews…I am not sure you even know what a Muslim is?
Muslims (Arabic:, al-Muslimūn, transl. "Submitters [to God]") are people who adhere to Islam, a monotheistic religion belonging to the Abrahamic tradition.
In descending order, the percentage of people who identify as Muslims on each continental landmass stands at: 45% of Africa, 25% of Asia and Oceania (collectively), 6% of Europe, and 1% of the Americas. Additionally, in subdivided geographical regions, the figure stands at: 91% of the Middle East–North Africa, 90% of Central Asia, 65% of the Caucasus, 42% of Southeast Asia, 32% of South Asia, and 42% of sub-Saharan Africa.
Muslims - Wikipedia
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Well actually Mohammad had access to some fancy technology back then. He sent his DNA to a Saudi Arabian 23 & Me DNA Ancestry testing, and it came back that he was a descendent of Ishmael from 2000 years before Mohammad
, Abraham's son from the handmade whom G d commanded Abraham to throw him out of his house, that will roam the desert like a wild ass, and who's descendants will be at war with all nations in the future. Read about it, it's in the Bible. I mean how else could Prophet Moe know that he was a relative of someone who existed 2000 years before? The religion of Islam is literally hinged on these two lies, that Mohammad is related to Ishmael, and that he was supposed to be the one that Abraham wanted to sacrifice. 
- Thread starter
- #24
Well actually Mohammad had access to some fancy technology back then. He sent his DNA to a Saudi Arabian 23 & Me DNA Ancestry testing, and it came back that he was a descendent of Ishmael from 2000 years before Mohammad
There is no evidence in the Koran that Muhammad thought he descended from Abraham.Well actually Mohammad had access to some fancy technology back then. He sent his DNA to a Saudi Arabian 23 & Me DNA Ancestry testing, and it came back that he was a descendent of Ishmael from 2000 years before Mohammad
Actually, the Torah disagrees with you. ...Muslims have zero connection to Abraham. Abraham was Father of the Jews…
Torah
Genesis 25:8 Then Abraham breathed his last and died at a good old age, an old man and full of years; and he was gathered to his people.
25:9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,
Isaac's linage became the Jewish people
Ishmael's linage were the Arabs who became Muslims
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Easy to find:There is no evidence in the Koran that Muhammad thought he descended from Abraham.
(also look at graph on first page linking Mohammad to Ishmael). Why do you think the name Esmail, Ismaeel or last name "Ismael" is so common in Islam?
"God Blessed Abraham: Muhammad came from the progeny of Abraham through Ishmael (promised by God)"
Ishmael - Wikipedia
Ishmael (Arabic:إسماعيل Ismāʿīl) is recognized as an important prophet and patriarchof Islam. Like Christians and Jews, Muslims believe that Ishmael was the firstborn of Abraham, born to him from his wife Hagar.[46] Ishmael is recognized by Muslims as the ancestor of several northern prominent Arab tribes and the forefather of Adnan, the ancestor of Muhammad.[1] Muslims also believe that Muhammad was the descendant of Ishmael who would establish a great nation.
Ishmael in Islam - Wikipedia
The general narrative pertaining to Ishmael describes the sacrifice either as a test or as part of a vow. Some versions tell of the devil trying to stop God's command from being obeyed by visiting Hagar, Ishmael, and Abraham. Every time the devil says Abraham is going to sacrifice Ishmael, each person answers that if God commanded it, they should obey. Eventually, Abraham tells Ishmael about the order and Ishmael is willing to be sacrificed and encourages Abraham to listen to God. Often, Ishmael is portrayed as telling Abraham some combination of instructions to bring his shirt back to Hagar, bind him tightly, sharpen the knife, and place him face down, all so that there will be no wavering in the resolve to obey God.
As Abraham attempts to slay Ishmael, either the knife is turned over in his hand or copper appears on Ishmael to prevent the death and God tells Abraham that he has fulfilled the command. Unlike in the Bible, there is no mention in the Qur'an of an animal (ram) replacing the boy; rather he is replaced with a 'great sacrifice' (dhibḥin ʿaẓīm).[8] Since the sacrifice of a ram cannot be greater than that of Abraham's son (and a prophet in Islam at that), this replacement seems to point to either the religious institutionalisation of sacrifice itself, or to the future self-sacrifices of the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his companions (who were destined to emerge from the progeny of Ishmael) in the cause of their faith. Every Eid al-Adha once a year Muslims around the world slaughter an animal to commemorate Abraham's sacrifice and to remind themselves of self-abnegation in the way of God.[9] Later historiographic literature incorporates the Biblical narrative in which a ram is provided which is slaughtered instead of Ishmael.[2][6]
- Thread starter
- #28
Nowhere does the Koran say Ishmael was father of Arabs. In fact, Isaac is mentioned more than Ishmael. The Koran contains virtually no biographical data about Ishmael, not even his birth and death. That information is in the Bible. He and Abraham aren’t mentioned in any pre-Koran Arabian records. Scholars believe that Muhammad learned about Abraham from Jews in Arabia, especially in Medina which had a sizable Jewish population. It’s believed that he inserted Abraham into the Koran as having actually built the Kaba shrine in Mecca in retribution for Jews’ rejection of Muhammad as a prophet. Muhammad changed Abraham’s location from Canaan or Israel to Arabia. Notice that the Koran says nothing about how or why Abraham traveled to Arabia when he wasn’t even an Arab! Nor, any explanation of him returning to Canaan/Israel where Muslims acknowledge Abraham is buried in Hebron. The Koran doesn’t identify which son of Abraham was to be sacrificed and Hagar is not even mentioned in the Koran. Muslims learned about Hagar from Jewish sources.Easy to find:
(also look at graph on first page linking Mohammad to Ishmael). Why do you think the name Esmail, Ismaeel or last name "Ismael" is so common in Islam?
"God Blessed Abraham: Muhammad came from the progeny of Abraham through Ishmael (promised by God)"
According to Muslim tradition, in which he is regarded as an ancestor of Muhammad,[1] Ishmael thereby founded a great nation as promised by God in the Old Testament,[2][3] and was buried with his mother Hagar (Hājar) next to the Kaaba in Mecca, under the area demarcated by the semi-circular Hijr Ismail wall.[4]Ishmael - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Ishmael (Arabic:إسماعيل Ismāʿīl) is recognized as an important prophet and patriarchof Islam. Like Christians and Jews, Muslims believe that Ishmael was the firstborn of Abraham, born to him from his wife Hagar.[46] Ishmael is recognized by Muslims as the ancestor of several northern prominent Arab tribes and the forefather of Adnan, the ancestor of Muhammad.[1] Muslims also believe that Muhammad was the descendant of Ishmael who would establish a great nation.
Ishmael in Islam - Wikipedia
The general narrative pertaining to Ishmael describes the sacrifice either as a test or as part of a vow. Some versions tell of the devil trying to stop God's command from being obeyed by visiting Hagar, Ishmael, and Abraham. Every time the devil says Abraham is going to sacrifice Ishmael, each person answers that if God commanded it, they should obey. Eventually, Abraham tells Ishmael about the order and Ishmael is willing to be sacrificed and encourages Abraham to listen to God. Often, Ishmael is portrayed as telling Abraham some combination of instructions to bring his shirt back to Hagar, bind him tightly, sharpen the knife, and place him face down, all so that there will be no wavering in the resolve to obey God.
As Abraham attempts to slay Ishmael, either the knife is turned over in his hand or copper appears on Ishmael to prevent the death and God tells Abraham that he has fulfilled the command. Unlike in the Bible, there is no mention in the Qur'an of an animal (ram) replacing the boy; rather he is replaced with a 'great sacrifice' (dhibḥin ʿaẓīm).[8] Since the sacrifice of a ram cannot be greater than that of Abraham's son (and a prophet in Islam at that), this replacement seems to point to either the religious institutionalisation of sacrifice itself, or to the future self-sacrifices of the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his companions (who were destined to emerge from the progeny of Ishmael) in the cause of their faith. Every Eid al-Adha once a year Muslims around the world slaughter an animal to commemorate Abraham's sacrifice and to remind themselves of self-abnegation in the way of God.[9] Later historiographic literature incorporates the Biblical narrative in which a ram is provided which is slaughtered instead of Ishmael.[2][6]
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- #29
Here the Koran (i.e., Muhammad) doesn’t know Ishmael, and thinks Jacob was Abraham‘s son instead of his grandson Surat Maryam [19:47-49] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريمEasy to find:
(also look at graph on first page linking Mohammad to Ishmael). Why do you think the name Esmail, Ismaeel or last name "Ismael" is so common in Islam?
"God Blessed Abraham: Muhammad came from the progeny of Abraham through Ishmael (promised by God)"
According to Muslim tradition, in which he is regarded as an ancestor of Muhammad,[1] Ishmael thereby founded a great nation as promised by God in the Old Testament,[2][3] and was buried with his mother Hagar (Hājar) next to the Kaaba in Mecca, under the area demarcated by the semi-circular Hijr Ismail wall.[4]Ishmael - Wikipedia
Ishmael (Arabic:إسماعيل Ismāʿīl) is recognized as an important prophet and patriarchof Islam. Like Christians and Jews, Muslims believe that Ishmael was the firstborn of Abraham, born to him from his wife Hagar.[46] Ishmael is recognized by Muslims as the ancestor of several northern prominent Arab tribes and the forefather of Adnan, the ancestor of Muhammad.[1] Muslims also believe that Muhammad was the descendant of Ishmael who would establish a great nation.
Ishmael in Islam - Wikipedia
The general narrative pertaining to Ishmael describes the sacrifice either as a test or as part of a vow. Some versions tell of the devil trying to stop God's command from being obeyed by visiting Hagar, Ishmael, and Abraham. Every time the devil says Abraham is going to sacrifice Ishmael, each person answers that if God commanded it, they should obey. Eventually, Abraham tells Ishmael about the order and Ishmael is willing to be sacrificed and encourages Abraham to listen to God. Often, Ishmael is portrayed as telling Abraham some combination of instructions to bring his shirt back to Hagar, bind him tightly, sharpen the knife, and place him face down, all so that there will be no wavering in the resolve to obey God.
As Abraham attempts to slay Ishmael, either the knife is turned over in his hand or copper appears on Ishmael to prevent the death and God tells Abraham that he has fulfilled the command. Unlike in the Bible, there is no mention in the Qur'an of an animal (ram) replacing the boy; rather he is replaced with a 'great sacrifice' (dhibḥin ʿaẓīm).[8] Since the sacrifice of a ram cannot be greater than that of Abraham's son (and a prophet in Islam at that), this replacement seems to point to either the religious institutionalisation of sacrifice itself, or to the future self-sacrifices of the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his companions (who were destined to emerge from the progeny of Ishmael) in the cause of their faith. Every Eid al-Adha once a year Muslims around the world slaughter an animal to commemorate Abraham's sacrifice and to remind themselves of self-abnegation in the way of God.[9] Later historiographic literature incorporates the Biblical narrative in which a ram is provided which is slaughtered instead of Ishmael.[2][6]
Muhammad heard from Jews bits and pieces about Abraham and his family, however he evidently was confused.
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Mohammad took shelter with the Jews before he turned on them, that‘s where he learned about Judaism, Hygeine, Kosher laws, etc. Then he took parts of the Judaic faith and blended it with the local Saudi moon God faith (ie to make it palatable to the locals he named God Allah) to create the new faith. That is the story of most faiths by the way. Look at what happened in ancient Rome with Constantine who was a Zoroastrian / Mithraism and Christianity.Here the Koran (i.e., Muhammad) doesn’t know Ishmael, and thinks Jacob was Abraham‘s son instead of his grandson Surat Maryam [19:47-49] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
Muhammad heard from Jews bits and pieces about Abraham and his family, however he evidently was confused.
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You realize that Abraham was from Ur in Mesopotamia or in other words Babylon, and I believe most of those events involving his life and the sacrifice occured there.Nowhere does the Koran say Ishmael was father of Arabs. In fact, Isaac is mentioned more than Ishmael. The Koran contains virtually no biographical data about Ishmael, not even his birth and death. That information is in the Bible. He and Abraham aren’t mentioned in any pre-Koran Arabian records. Scholars believe that Muhammad learned about Abraham from Jews in Arabia, especially in Medina which had a sizable Jewish population. It’s believed that he inserted Abraham into the Koran as having actually built the Kaba shrine in Mecca in retribution for Jews’ rejection of Muhammad as a prophet. Muhammad changed Abraham’s location from Canaan or Israel to Arabia. Notice that the Koran says nothing about how or why Abraham traveled to Arabia when he wasn’t even an Arab! Nor, any explanation of him returning to Canaan/Israel where Muslims acknowledge Abraham is buried in Hebron. The Koran doesn’t identify which son of Abraham was to be sacrificed and Hagar is not even mentioned in the Koran. Muslims learned about Hagar from Jewish sources.
The Koran doesn’t mention which son but it does give Israel to the Jews in its very first pages. Trust me, Muslims do believe that Mohammad is a descendent of Ishmael. It is like one of the tenets of the faith. In fact, did you know that the word “seyed” in Arabic literally means descendant of the prophet, which they consider Mohammad to be. So any Muslim with the word Seyed in his first or last name is given special respect In society. It is the equivalent of a Cohen to Jews.
Syed Ali (name) - Wikipedia
Syeds are said to be the direct descendants of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad, and the title is usually used in front of the given name as a title, meaning lord, master or sir and is used as a surname in honour of their ancestor.
The Arabic meaning of Syed is noble one. Syed's are the most honourable, respected, educated and high ranking individuals among muslims. In these countries, the title "Syed", an honorific that denotes descent from Muhammad, is the most common English spelling of the Arabic term Sayyid
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- #32
Allah originated as the pagan Arab high god, al-Ilah. Allah is simply a contraction. Islam began as Judaism for pagan Arabs with no scripture. The two main principals of Islam, monotheism and Judgment Day, were taken from Judaism.Mohammad took shelter with the Jews before he turned on them, that‘s where he learned about Judaism, Hygeine, Kosher laws, etc. Then he took parts of the Judaic faith and blended it with the local Saudi moon God faith (ie to make it palatable to the locals he named God Allah) to create the new faith. That is the story of most faiths by the way. Look at what happened in ancient Rome with Constantine who was a Zoroastrian / Mithraism and Christianity.
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- #33
No evidence exists in the Koran or in any other sources in Muhammad’s lifetime that he descended from Ishmael—This was a later Muslim invention to provide Muhammad with biblical legitimacy. Ishmael is a minor figure in the Koran, a prophet among other prophets, which Muhammad authored.You realize that Abraham was from Ur in Mesopotamia or in other words Babylon, and I believe most of those events involving his life and the sacrifice occured there.
The Koran doesn’t mention which son but it does give Israel to the Jews in its very first pages. Trust me, Muslims do believe that Mohammad is a descendent of Ishmael. It is like one of the tenets of the faith. In fact, did you know that the word “seyed” in Arabic literally means descendant of the prophet, which they consider Mohammad to be. So any Muslim with the word Seyed in his first or last name is given special respect In society. It is the equivalent of Kohen in Hebrew.
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No evidence exists that Mohammad is related, correct. After all, Abraham lived about 2000 before Mohammad came into the scene. However Ishmael and that he was the intended sacrifice is a central part of the Islamic faith. You cannot consider yourself a practicing Muslim without completely accepting this.No evidence exists in the Koran or in any other sources in Muhammad’s lifetime that he descended from Ishmael—This was a later Muslim invention to provide Muhammad with biblical legitimacy. Ishmael is a minor figure in the Koran, a prophet among other prophets, which Muhammad authored.
Arabs know they are the descends of Ishmael.No evidence exists in the Koran or in any other sources in Muhammad’s lifetime that he descended from Ishmael—This was a later Muslim invention to provide Muhammad with biblical legitimacy. Ishmael is a minor figure in the Koran, a prophet among other prophets, which Muhammad authored.
Just like Jewish people know they are descends of Isaac
In Islamic theology all of the prophets, including Muhammad, are revered equally. None are categorized as minor or major prophets.
Muhammad very well could have been a direct descendent of Ishmael.
People here in the US usually don't know the names of their great-grandparents, let alone those further removed.
But in many cultures kids are taught to memorize the names of the people they descended from.
I knew a guy from a muslim majority African country that could recite the names of over 100 generations of his direct ancestors.
People here in the US usually don't know the names of their great-grandparents, let alone those further removed.
But in many cultures kids are taught to memorize the names of the people they descended from.
I knew a guy from a muslim majority African country that could recite the names of over 100 generations of his direct ancestors.
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Bottom line is even today, with all the technology, can we determine if you’re related to someone that lived 2000 years ago. Sure you can say a person is from this or that region, and other possible relatives living today, provided the same DNA bank has access to their DNA. Unless someone can provide us with usable DNA sampleS of Mohammad, Jesus, Abraham or known descendants can we then perhaps make an attempt who if anyone is related. .
Therefore, once again, this comes down to faith, and whether one has it or not.
Therefore, once again, this comes down to faith, and whether one has it or not.
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- #38
Even if Ishmael (Hebrew name, not Arabic) was ancestor of Arabs (Neither Bible nor Quran says this), most Muslims are not Arabs. Ishmael, if he even existed, would have been a polytheist. Turks, Iranians, Pakistanis, etc., have zero connection to Ishmael.No evidence exists that Mohammad is related, correct. After all, Abraham lived about 2000 before Mohammad came into the scene. However Ishmael and that he was the intended sacrifice is a central part of the Islamic faith. You cannot consider yourself a practicing Muslim without completely accepting this.
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