CDZ Wow! SD Legislature goes too far! So much for draining the swamp in SD

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Jan 1, 2017
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Last November, the voters of South Dakota in a statewide referendum vote passed anti-corruption legislation. This week, the legislature overturned the law saying that voters didn't know what they were doing.

South Dakota's citizen-led experiment to "drain the swamp" of political corruption appears to have lasted less than three months. Lawmakers in the state Senate voted 27-8 Wednesday to repeal the voter-approved initiative and send the measure to the governor. The legislation was given emergency status so it would take effect immediately when the governor applies his signature — which he said he expects to do.

The state's voters supported Donald Trump in a landslide last November. They also gave a 51 percent majority to a ballot initiative called the South Dakota Accountability and Anti-Corruption Act. It targeted South Dakota's status as the only state that allowed lobbyists to give politicians unlimited and undisclosed gifts. As a campaign ad said last fall, "Measure 22, the anti-corruption initiative, will stop that. No wonder the lobbyists are so afraid of it. They say you can't take your government back. Yes, you can."

But the state's governor and many lawmakers say the voters goofed. The repeal battle has drawn national attention, as voters endorsed the measure, lawmakers rushed to court to block it, and its backers have demonstrated in 15-degree weather at the state Capitol.

So why the rush to repeal the initiative? Critics say the gift language is too broad, a problem, they say, for other provisions as well. Gov. Dennis Daugaard speculated to reporters that voters might not have thought through a provision for public financing of campaigns. "I think it's possible that many voters were either unconcerned or unaware of the degree to which those dollars would be impacting the budget," said Daugaard.

Some critics say the initiative is a bait-and-switch, promising to drain the swamp but then suppressing free speech. "The bait is anti-corruption, right?" said Scott Blackburn, a research fellow at the anti-regulatory Center for Competitive Politics in Alexandria, Va. "The switch is then to target a broad array of charitable organizations, and anyone who falls even close to the purview of talking about something kind of campaign related." But Josh Silver, director of the national advocacy group Represent.us, which campaigned for the initiative, said the voters accomplished what they meant to do.

"In South Dakota, the people have had an opportunity to do what politicians have been unwilling to do: that is, pass comprehensive laws around campaign finance, ethics, transparency," he said. "This is one of these rare opportunities for the American people to actually drain the swamp."

Key Provisions of the IM 22 Referendum (full text here):
  1. IM 22 limits the amounts political parties and PACs can contribute to South Dakota candidates. Right now, parties and PACs can make unlimited contributions.
  2. IM 22 reduces the maximum amount that parties, PACs, and most candidates may accept from individual donors.
  3. IM 22 requires more frequent campaign finance reports and makes those reports available free online in a searchable database.
  4. IM 22 creates a public financing system for elections. Registered voters receive two $50 “Democracy Credits” to assign to the candidate or candidates of their choice. Candidates can receive Democracy Credits only if they agree not to take donations larger than $250 (for Legislature) or $500 (for statewide office).
  5. IM 22 expands the activities the require an individual to register as a lobbyist, increases the penalty for improper lobbying activity, expands “revolving door” restrictions to include appointed directors and top government staffers, and doubles the “revolving door” waiting period between leaving government to working as a paid lobbyist to two years.
  6. IM 22 creates a five-person state ethics commission to enforce all provisions of this law and to investigate and respond to other instances of corruption in state government.
 
Expect a Massive backlash in the next state election. Wow, just Wow. And we are the crazy, uniformed people that have no idea what is good for us? Really? Go figure a bunch of politicians would try to tell their own constituents that they are dumb.

"So why the rush to repeal the initiative? Critics say the gift language is too broad, a problem, they say, for other provisions as well. Gov. Dennis Daugaard speculated to reporters that voters might not have thought through a provision for public financing of campaigns. "I think it's possible that many voters were either unconcerned or unaware of the degree to which those dollars would be impacting the budget," said Daugaard." So, in other words, Mr. Governor, your constituents are too stupid/ uniformed to know what is good for them. Well, it's a damn good thing they elected you to set them straight.

Jeez, what a pompous ass. I wonder how long until he faces a recall election....
 
Its quite breathtaking. These people throw money round in order to nullify our democratic rights. This must be an issue that unites right and left.
 
Its quite breathtaking. These people throw money round in order to nullify our democratic rights. This must be an issue that unites right and left.
Well it should be. Sadly both sides are far too busy bickering over who is more to blame, and have no time left to realise we actually agree this is a problem. I am not, repeat, not referring to politicians. I'm talking about the everyday people out there trying to prove their "side" didn't do this, or the other guys are more to blame. It's time for this country to grow-up and quit worrying about who did what (groups, parties, etc.), we have more important things to do, like fix our Republic. I don't think there are too many people who don't think it's broken, just disagree on why, and what is broken about it. Well, I can clear both of those things up with one word:

Divided.

Abraham Lincoln: “A house divided against itself cannot stand."

So, who out there is adult enough to come to the table to fix the real problem? Are there any?
 
Sad. Hopefully the voters take this to heart and pay the local government there back in kind. I suspect that they are as open as they are to taking it out because it so narrowly passed. Maybe this will get the measure more attention and garner more support.
 
Well, this is what Republicans do when they get control of things....and they purport to be the party of the people.
Hate to break it to you, but Republicans do not have a monopoly on this type of arrogant behavior.
 
Well, this is what Republicans do when they get control of things....and they purport to be the party of the people.
Hate to break it to you, but Republicans do not have a monopoly on this type of arrogant behavior.

I'd be interested to learn of instances where Democrat majority legislatures, along with a Democratic governor, have repealed referenda, particularly just a few months after the voters passed it. Jesus H. Christ! The SD legislature and governor didn't even give the measure a chance to "do its thing." I can't go so far as to say it's not happened in modern times, but can say I'm not aware of it happening.
 
Well, this is what Republicans do when they get control of things....and they purport to be the party of the people.
Hate to break it to you, but Republicans do not have a monopoly on this type of arrogant behavior.

I'd be interested to learn of instances where Democrat majority legislatures, along with a Democratic governor, have repealed referenda, particularly just a few months after the voters passed it. Jesus H. Christ! The SD legislature and governor didn't even give the measure a chance to "do its thing." I can't go so far as to say it's not happened in modern times, but can say I'm not aware of it happening.
"In Michigan, voters are allowed to overturn laws they don't like. This is how it works: you try and get enough signatures to get a referendum to repeal the law on a ballot. If a majority of voters vote against the law... it's repealed. But there's a catch: laws that have appropriations attached to them cannot be repealed by voters." Michigan Radio
They simply make it so they don't have to.
 
Well, this is what Republicans do when they get control of things....and they purport to be the party of the people.
Hate to break it to you, but Republicans do not have a monopoly on this type of arrogant behavior.

I'd be interested to learn of instances where Democrat majority legislatures, along with a Democratic governor, have repealed referenda, particularly just a few months after the voters passed it. Jesus H. Christ! The SD legislature and governor didn't even give the measure a chance to "do its thing." I can't go so far as to say it's not happened in modern times, but can say I'm not aware of it happening.
I'd be interested to learn of instances where Democrat majority legislatures, along with a Democratic governor, have repealed referenda, particularly just a few months after the voters passed it. Jesus H. Christ! The SD legislature and governor didn't even give the measure a chance to "do its thing." I can't go so far as to say it's not happened in modern times, but can say I'm not aware of it happening.
"In Michigan, voters are allowed to overturn laws they don't like. This is how it works: you try and get enough signatures to get a referendum to repeal the law on a ballot. If a majority of voters vote against the law... it's repealed. But there's a catch: laws that have appropriations attached to them cannot be repealed by voters." Michigan Radio
They simply make it so they don't have to.

The "catch" notwithstanding, that's still very different from the legislature overturning a law the voters enacted via referendum.
 
Well, this is what Republicans do when they get control of things....and they purport to be the party of the people.
Hate to break it to you, but Republicans do not have a monopoly on this type of arrogant behavior.

I'd be interested to learn of instances where Democrat majority legislatures, along with a Democratic governor, have repealed referenda, particularly just a few months after the voters passed it. Jesus H. Christ! The SD legislature and governor didn't even give the measure a chance to "do its thing." I can't go so far as to say it's not happened in modern times, but can say I'm not aware of it happening.
I'd be interested to learn of instances where Democrat majority legislatures, along with a Democratic governor, have repealed referenda, particularly just a few months after the voters passed it. Jesus H. Christ! The SD legislature and governor didn't even give the measure a chance to "do its thing." I can't go so far as to say it's not happened in modern times, but can say I'm not aware of it happening.
"In Michigan, voters are allowed to overturn laws they don't like. This is how it works: you try and get enough signatures to get a referendum to repeal the law on a ballot. If a majority of voters vote against the law... it's repealed. But there's a catch: laws that have appropriations attached to them cannot be repealed by voters." Michigan Radio
They simply make it so they don't have to.

The "catch" notwithstanding, that's still very different from the legislature overturning a law the voters enacted via referendum.
That may be, yet the message is the same, "we know what is best for you, regardless of what you may think." Kind of like what a parent tells a child, isn't it?
 
Well, this is what Republicans do when they get control of things....and they purport to be the party of the people.
Hate to break it to you, but Republicans do not have a monopoly on this type of arrogant behavior.

I'd be interested to learn of instances where Democrat majority legislatures, along with a Democratic governor, have repealed referenda, particularly just a few months after the voters passed it. Jesus H. Christ! The SD legislature and governor didn't even give the measure a chance to "do its thing." I can't go so far as to say it's not happened in modern times, but can say I'm not aware of it happening.
I'd be interested to learn of instances where Democrat majority legislatures, along with a Democratic governor, have repealed referenda, particularly just a few months after the voters passed it. Jesus H. Christ! The SD legislature and governor didn't even give the measure a chance to "do its thing." I can't go so far as to say it's not happened in modern times, but can say I'm not aware of it happening.
"In Michigan, voters are allowed to overturn laws they don't like. This is how it works: you try and get enough signatures to get a referendum to repeal the law on a ballot. If a majority of voters vote against the law... it's repealed. But there's a catch: laws that have appropriations attached to them cannot be repealed by voters." Michigan Radio
They simply make it so they don't have to.

The "catch" notwithstanding, that's still very different from the legislature overturning a law the voters enacted via referendum.
That may be, yet the message is the same, "we know what is best for you, regardless of what you may think." Kind of like what a parent tells a child, isn't it?
What? The voters telling the legislature that they don't agree with a law is not like a parent telling their children they know what's best. It's the conceptual opposite of that.

While the parent-child analogy is seems fitting for the discussion we're having, it's not substantively so because all the parties involved in the voting process are adults. Now if you'd like to use that analogy, you'd need to demonstrate that a majority or large plurality of non-elected voters who voted to reverse legislative actions are indeed sophomoric in their actual analysis of, and will and ability to analyze, the matters put to their vote and the impacts of their votes regarding those matters.

I wouldn't say that, but the fact is that once the voters have spoken by voting on a matter, their decision has to be honored. That's why Trump is in the White House; he won the majority of the electoral votes.
 
What? The voters telling the legislature that they don't agree with a law is not like a parent telling their children they know what's best. It's the conceptual opposite of that.
You are arguing with a phantom. That is not at all what I was saying. It's the Legislators treating, and looking at, the voters as if they were their children. Am I being more clear this time?
 
While the parent-child analogy is seems fitting for the discussion we're having, it's not substantively so because all the parties involved in the voting process are adults. Now if you'd like to use that analogy, you'd need to demonstrate that a majority or large plurality of non-elected voters who voted to reverse legislative actions are indeed sophomoric in their actual analysis of, and will and ability to analyze, the matters put to their vote and the impacts of their votes regarding those matters.
Are you saying that to use an analogy, one must prove (to your satisfaction?) that the two situations are similar enough? What kind of crap is that? Analogies are meant to SIMPLIFY things that are not simple, what you are suggesting does quite the opposite.
 
What? The voters telling the legislature that they don't agree with a law is not like a parent telling their children they know what's best. It's the conceptual opposite of that.
You are arguing with a phantom. That is not at all what I was saying. It's the Legislators treating, and looking at, the voters as if they were their children. Am I being more clear this time?

Well, not really because the example you presented is one whereby the people are reversed legislative action. (Did you mistakenly present the example differently than did the content at your link? I haven't read the linked content; only your summary of it.)
 
What? The voters telling the legislature that they don't agree with a law is not like a parent telling their children they know what's best. It's the conceptual opposite of that.
You are arguing with a phantom. That is not at all what I was saying. It's the Legislators treating, and looking at, the voters as if they were their children. Am I being more clear this time?

Well, not really because the example you presented is one whereby the people are reversed legislative action. (Did you mistakenly present the example differently than did the content at your link? I haven't read the linked content; only your summary of it.)
No, that is not the example he used. The example was a case of the legislator making the reversal impossible. The pubic has the power to overturn a law they do not like UNLESS the legislator attaches an appropriation to it. In those cases the public is not empowered to overturn the law.

In that case the legislator is telling the public tough shit.
 
Are you saying that to use an analogy, one must [show] that the two situations are similar enough?

If the analogy has material differences that are relevant to the line of discussion for which the analogy aims to illustrate a point, yes. The nature of the governors-to-governed relationship, as well as the faculties of the parties in that relationship, are not at all similar to those found in the parent-child relationship. The only similarity is that one party in each relationship is deemed, in the main, to have authority to make decisions on behalf of the other.

It's reasonable to think that, on a given life decision/political matter, a parent knows better than their child; moreover, because of the child's minority, the parent has literal and formal decisionmaking authority over the child such that the parent's decision stands no matter what the child thinks of it. The same set of facts simply don't exist between governors and the governed who voted for a given measure about which they were specifically asked to vote. Are you suggesting that the nature of representative government should, in the case of ballot referendum decisions, nonetheless function in form and function as does the parent-child relationship?
 
What? The voters telling the legislature that they don't agree with a law is not like a parent telling their children they know what's best. It's the conceptual opposite of that.
You are arguing with a phantom. That is not at all what I was saying. It's the Legislators treating, and looking at, the voters as if they were their children. Am I being more clear this time?

Well, not really because the example you presented is one whereby the people are reversed legislative action. (Did you mistakenly present the example differently than did the content at your link? I haven't read the linked content; only your summary of it.)
No, that is not the example he used. The example was a case of the legislator making the reversal impossible. The pubic has the power to overturn a law they do not like UNLESS the legislator attaches an appropriation to it. In those cases the public is not empowered to overturn the law.

In that case the legislator is telling the public tough shit.

So you are saying the focus of his point was on the "catch" and not nature of how the reversal be effected? Perhaps you are right. If you are right, I don't know why he mentioned that as the focus of the thread is on the fact that the governor and legislature overturned the voters' actually and literally expressed will. The Michigan law he identified is a preemptive move, a blocking move. It's not a full-on "f*ck you; what you voted for doesn't matter" move.

I agree that the legislative tactic Michigan used to limit the types of laws voters can overturn has a hindering effect on voters' ability to express themselves via their ballots. That said, that very piece of legislation they passed can be overturned by referendum as it doesn't itself require an appropriation.
 
Are you saying that to use an analogy, one must [show] that the two situations are similar enough?

If the analogy has material differences that are relevant to the line of discussion for which the analogy aims to illustrate a point, yes. The nature of the governors-to-governed relationship, as well as the faculties of the parties in that relationship, are not at all similar to those found in the parent-child relationship. The only similarity is that one party in each relationship is deemed, in the main, to have authority to make decisions on behalf of the other.

It's reasonable to think that, on a given life decision/political matter, a parent knows better than their child; moreover, because of the child's minority, the parent has literal and formal decisionmaking authority over the child such that the parent's decision stands no matter what the child thinks of it. The same set of facts simply don't exist between governors and the governed who voted for a given measure about which they were specifically asked to vote. Are you suggesting that the nature of representative government should, in the case of ballot referendum decisions, nonetheless function in form and function as does the parent-child relationship?
I think you are looking far too deep into this analogy. Let me explain what I was getting at with the analogy.
The voters in SD decided (via a referendum) to do something about the perceived corruption (whether it is real or not is irrelevant) in their state. The state (by means of the Governor) said "tough, you don't know what your talking about." In this situation the Governor treated the people of his state as if they were children. Not in the sense that he actually has absolute power over them, but that he acted as though he did. The relationship is different, and yet the action taken by the authority figure is the same as is the underlying message.
Now wouldn't it have been so much easier to use the analogy, and take it for what it is, instead of over analyzing and looking too deep? It seems to me as if you are trying to find fault in what I say, instead of actually engaging in a debate of the topic.
 

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