Wow! 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths.......

[idb]

Interesting.
As the same site asks elsewhere...why are ICUs and funeral homes being reportedly swamped then?
What's going on?

 

[dblack]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

Not sure what you're driving at with this but not only is there a fire, a couple of the doors might be locked. 785 deaths today in the US alone. But yeah, nothing to worry about.
No one is engaging with this because everybody on your linked study died after getting the coronavirus. Nothing to discuss.

I wouldn't doubt if many of the US deaths being misdiagnosed as coronavius, could be influenza. Shit like that happens when panic is rampant.

This is not China. Contrary to the sensationalism the media is cranking out, "thousands" are not going to die here.

 

[Zander]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

Oh, good. Then we can just stand down and not worry about the pandemic. Thanks man!

You can cower in fear if you like.

Screw that. I'm going to Disneyland!

The lines will be short. Enjoy.

 

[EvMetro]

If you nuts think this thing is a hoax than take yourselves on a long vacation to NY city and have at it.

Why are you trying to conflate the media driven over reaction to covid 19 with this notion that people are calling the virus a hoax?

 

[DOTR]

I’m going to work every day. Will continue.

 

[Andylusion]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

You're simply wrong, and the Telegraph article you cited proves it. The virus was probably a contributing factor in most of the deaths in Italy. In other words, if they had not contracted covid-19, most of them would still be alive. Here are some extracts from the article:

“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older - the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions. Experts have also warned against making direct comparisons between countries due to discrepancies in testing.

But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality.

You can read the whole article here:

Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy?

The country's high death toll is due to an ageing population, overstretched health system and the way fatalities are reported

www.telegraph.co.uk

Well, we're not going to argue with you. Or at least I'm not.

The official from Italy said specifically that many of the people on the list, had died with Corona, not specifically because of Corona. That means, exactly that. The statistics coming out of Italy, are not excluding people who died from other causes. Only that they had Corona.

If I have heart failure, and I die from heart failure, and I happen to have Corona when I die of heart failure... Corona didn't do that. Heart failure did.

So, I am inclined to believe that it is possible the numbers are exaggerated in Italy. You disagree, that's fine.

 

[bluzman61]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

Nope, not a BIT surprised. It's a shame we're not getting REAL statistics on the Chinese Virus.

 

[bluzman61]

If you nuts think this thing is a hoax than take yourselves on a long vacation to NY city and have at it.

Nobody is saying it's a hoax, what many are saying though AND thinking is that the reaction to COVID-19 is a MASSIVE over reaction. Putting nearly ONE THIRD of the world into LOCKDOWN, ordering that businesses and schools and sports events and basically LIFE ITSELF outside of going to get food or medicine, this is UNHEARD of EVEN in an ACTUAL war time situation.

That mainly Leftists are DEMANDING this insane lockdown goes on for 3-6 months makes it more insane. How many peoples are going to be RUINED because of this, permanently ruined, MILLIONS. I bet when this eventually is all over that MORE peoples worldwide will have committed suicide and died of heart attacks when they realise they have been RUINED than will have died from anything to do with COVID-19.

You have basically ONE THIRD of the world under effectively House Arrest, it's beyond outrageous.

Fantastic post, Lucy. Thanks. I hope you and yours are doing well.

 

[bluzman61]

If you nuts think this thing is a hoax than take yourselves on a long vacation to NY city and have at it.

Why are you trying to conflate the media driven over reaction to covid 19 with this notion that people are calling the virus a hoax?

Well, that would obviously be because tigerred is, I guess you would say, a little soft in the head......

 

[beagle9]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

Not sure what you're driving at with this but not only is there a fire, a couple of the doors might be locked. 785 deaths today in the US alone. But yeah, nothing to worry about.
No one is engaging with this because everybody on your linked study died after getting the coronavirus. Nothing to discuss.

Never mind the disturbing hyperbole we are hearing from the media, never mind the frightening predictions and projections we keep hearing, never mind the scary assessment by the Trump White House that 200,000 Americans will die of the coronavirus before all this is over, what is the bottom line?

The bottom line is 3,807 older Americans with preexisting health issues have died in the past three months within a population of 327 million.

The bottom line is, that fact is uniquely unremarkable.

During the press conference today, Dr. Deborah Birx presented a rather startling graph. It is unavailable on the internet. It showed that New York state and New Jersey, which is connected to the N.Y. city metro area, are anomalies. The rest of the states, all 48 of them, appear to have Covid-19 under control.

This link confirms that fact. United States Coronavirus: 187,347 Cases and 3,860 Deaths - Worldometer

Please go to the graph showing the states. The number of cases is secondary to the fatality rate of this virus. The common cold is, well, common. Look at the number of deaths. Again, that is a three month total, and, again, considering the fact that we are talking about the sick and the elderly, the figures are quite ordinary, perhaps even low.

Trump's medical experts finally confirmed something else I have been saying all along. The Trump White still refuses to give us an age breakdown of the deceased, but Dr. Birx told us that, while the young do get infected, they recover. She said that the mortality rate "increases with age and preexisting medical conditions."

That is the closest the Trump White House will get to providing the age and condition of those who succumb to this new common cold virus. Why is that?

Take away New York City, Detroit, and New Orleans and the media wouldn't have much to talk about.

I saw a YouTube video that was showing why people went into panic mode, and we're emptying the shelves of toilet paper, paper towels, food etc. It said that the "World Health Administration" told them to have a 14 day stock pile enlight of the pandemic that was to come.

Since when does America or American's take advice from a "World Health Organization" ???? Since we became these so called "World Citizen's" now ??????

How did the citizens of America get this information up front, and then they acted upon it before most of us knew anything about it ???

Is this nation in some sort of planned out grip by the world community/world health organization ???? Why are leftist using this disaster for political reason's, and why are the leftist/Democrats/liberals the ones hyping this thing in ways that are to be against Trump and the current administration ??

It's getting so hard to trust anything Democrat these days, in fact it might be over for them as they've played their bluff out. All one has to do is look for the links, the connections, and then listen to the speak, and pay close attention to the opportunities that are jumped on at every second by them. Never let a good crisis go to waste remember ??

 

[the other mike]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

New York's death toll
will pass 9/11 by the end of the week.

Central Park will be the site of a new hospital for coronavirus patients

Field hospital to open in Central Park for coronavirus patients

abcnews.go.com

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[Fed Starving]

All I know is Satan doesn't have a job, can't get unemployment and has incurable illnesses.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

That is like saying the cause of death was not from the gun shot but from the loss of blood.

you people are getting too desperate.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If I have heart failure, and I die from heart failure, and I happen to have Corona when I die of heart failure... Corona didn't do that. Heart failure did.

unless the Coronavirus lead to the heart failure

 

[skye]

When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????

I just don't understand it.

 

[the other mike]

When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????

I just don't understand it.

Good question.
They'll be reconsidering having 30,000 Chinese migrant workers
in their garment factories from now on....for sure.

 

[Lewdog]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

This is like saying people don't die from HIV... they die from AIDS. You are using the chicken and the egg argument with a deadly virus.

 

[Bruce Daniels]

Are not from Covid 19. Surprised? I'm not. The entire world is screaming FIRE in a movie theater, and there's no fire.

This article below sheds a great deal of light on why Italy has such a high reported "death rate" from Covid-19.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Italy: Only 12% of “Covid19 deaths” list Covid19 as cause

Report shows up to 88% of Italy’s alleged Covid19 deaths could be misattributed

The way Italy registers deaths explains their increased coronavirus case/fatality ratio, according to one expert and a report from Italy’s National Institute of Health (ISS).

Citing this report (in English here), Professor Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health said:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus […] On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”

This has been reported widely, it was even in The Telegraph, and yet no one seems to be engaging with it.

The president of the Italian Civil Protection Service actually went out of his way to remind people of the nature of Italy’s fatality figures in a morning briefing on 20/03:
I want you to remember these people died WITH the coronavirus and not FROM the coronavirus”

here is the article- https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23...m-LuAMIPzzMqYb57qoQrYeqMrfI81YHk4T0aXEEQUQ9Nw

You're simply wrong, and the Telegraph article you cited proves it. The virus was probably a contributing factor in most of the deaths in Italy. In other words, if they had not contracted covid-19, most of them would still be alive. Here are some extracts from the article:

“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older - the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions. Experts have also warned against making direct comparisons between countries due to discrepancies in testing.

But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality.

You can read the whole article here:

Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy?

The country's high death toll is due to an ageing population, overstretched health system and the way fatalities are reported

www.telegraph.co.uk

Well, we're not going to argue with you. Or at least I'm not.

The official from Italy said specifically that many of the people on the list, had died with Corona, not specifically because of Corona. That means, exactly that. The statistics coming out of Italy, are not excluding people who died from other causes. Only that they had Corona.

If I have heart failure, and I die from heart failure, and I happen to have Corona when I die of heart failure... Corona didn't do that. Heart failure did.

So, I am inclined to believe that it is possible the numbers are exaggerated in Italy. You disagree, that's fine.

Could it be possible, in your universe, if your already-compromised heart failed as the result of a cascading escalation of health issues which resulted from contracting covid-19, and that the virus CONTRIBUTED to your death? Do you claim that they are completely unrelated? You simply don't want to admit that this pandemic is real.

 

[skye]

When will Italy start using chloroquine for their coronavirus patients?

I mean....seriously

what are they waiting for????

I just don't understand it.

Good question.
They'll be reconsidering having 30,000 Chinese migrant workers
in their garment factories from now on.

Absolutely!

Hope they learn their lessons....they wanted all their clothes to say Made in Italy.... instead to Made in China...so they brought in thousands of Chinese workers.

And that's where Italy is now...because of their stupidity ...they are in the midst of Hell.

Oh well...later rather than sooner ....they will understand (we hope)

 

[Bruce Daniels]

If you nuts think this thing is a hoax than take yourselves on a long vacation to NY city and have at it.

Nobody is saying it's a hoax, what many are saying though AND thinking is that the reaction to COVID-19 is a MASSIVE over reaction. Putting nearly ONE THIRD of the world into LOCKDOWN, ordering that businesses and schools and sports events and basically LIFE ITSELF outside of going to get food or medicine, this is UNHEARD of EVEN in an ACTUAL war time situation.

That mainly Leftists are DEMANDING this insane lockdown goes on for 3-6 months makes it more insane. How many peoples are going to be RUINED because of this, permanently ruined, MILLIONS. I bet when this eventually is all over that MORE peoples worldwide will have committed suicide and died of heart attacks when they realise they have been RUINED than will have died from anything to do with COVID-19.

You have basically ONE THIRD of the world under effectively House Arrest, it's beyond outrageous.

Fantastic post, Lucy. Thanks. I hope you and yours are doing well.

Hey, Lucy, go out and congregate! Ignore the warnings! I'm really starting to think that the coronavirus is a mechanism for weeding out the really stupid people.