Work Question about mean employers ... input needed

[777]

Where did this rule come from that you cannot speak badly of your former employers when it would be fully justified? Imagine a situation where you are verbally abused daily, sexually harassed, or maybe your boss has an abuse problem and he/she is just out of control ...

Why do we need to play these idiotic elementary games and pretend otherwise, meaning we'd say something like "I left because I wanted new challenges, new opportunities, whatever excuse ... " rather than telling the truth?

Why is it not OK to tell the truth that your boss was so irrational, hurtful, abusive ...? After all, the employee is the victim, not the boss. I am talking about telling the truth to prospective employer in serious abuse cases, not just because the boss is simply being mean and a jerk.


I don't get this silly "pretend" game ... when can you speak the truth?

 

[actsnoblemartin]

the reason i heard was, if you talk bad about your old boss, you will talk bad about them.

Where did this rule come from that you cannot speak badly of your former employers when it would be fully justified? Imagine a situation where you are verbally abused daily, sexually harassed, or maybe your boss has an abuse problem and he/she is just out of control ...

Why do we need to play these idiotic elementary games and pretend otherwise, meaning we'd say something like "I left because I wanted new challenges, new opportunities, whatever excuse ... " rather than telling the truth?

Why is it not OK to tell the truth that your boss was so irrational, hurtful, abusive ...? After all, the employee is the victim, not the boss. I am talking about telling the truth to prospective employer in serious abuse cases, not just because the boss is simply being mean and a jerk.


I don't get this silly "pretend" game ... when can you speak the truth?

 

[mattskramer]

the reason i heard was, if you talk bad about your old boss, you will talk bad about them.

Yes. If you speak badly about your boss (previous employment) to a prospective employer, your prospective employer is more likely to think that, if you become employed and leave after some time has passed, that you will speak similarly about him.

It may even tempt your prospective employer to contact your previous boss to get “his side of the picture”. It is usually best to, as best you can, speak neutrally or positively about your previous employers, co-workers, and acquaintances.

 

[The Man @ Lunch]

Where did this rule come from that you cannot speak badly of your former employers when it would be fully justified?

There is no "legal" rule of any kind, of course. It's not a crime to speak badly of a former employer when it's justified, nor can you be sued for doing so. (At least you're not likely to be sued because you probably don't have enough money to make it worthwhile for the employer.)

Everything that's been said earlier is true, however. It's just a pracitcal matter that you shouldn't badmouth former employers to prospective ones, or your current one.

If an interviewer asks you why you left and your boss truly WAS incompetent, or the company really was backwards, there are ways to get the message across. You just don't come right out and say these things: you only imply them very strongly.

 

[Care4all]

Where did this rule come from that you cannot speak badly of your former employers when it would be fully justified? Imagine a situation where you are verbally abused daily, sexually harassed, or maybe your boss has an abuse problem and he/she is just out of control ...

Why do we need to play these idiotic elementary games and pretend otherwise, meaning we'd say something like "I left because I wanted new challenges, new opportunities, whatever excuse ... " rather than telling the truth?

Why is it not OK to tell the truth that your boss was so irrational, hurtful, abusive ...? After all, the employee is the victim, not the boss. I am talking about telling the truth to prospective employer in serious abuse cases, not just because the boss is simply being mean and a jerk.


I don't get this silly "pretend" game ... when can you speak the truth?

We live in a much smaller world than one may realize.

There are a couple of sayings, WISE sayings that sort of relate to this:

''Don't Burn a bridge that you may need to go across in the future.''

or

''Don't burn a bridge before you cross it.''

I didn't note an occupation in your complaint,

but I ended up having a career in a field that i held a part time job in when I was in high school. Later on in life, i ran in to my old boss who i thought was a jerk when working for him, who was now one of the biggest Accounts, for the company I ended up working at, and I was given his account to handle!!!

I was greatful, I had not burned that bridge, and greatful he had not ''heard'' about what I once thought of him!

Be careful.

Care

 

[jillian]

Where did this rule come from that you cannot speak badly of your former employers when it would be fully justified? Imagine a situation where you are verbally abused daily, sexually harassed, or maybe your boss has an abuse problem and he/she is just out of control ...

Why do we need to play these idiotic elementary games and pretend otherwise, meaning we'd say something like "I left because I wanted new challenges, new opportunities, whatever excuse ... " rather than telling the truth?

Why is it not OK to tell the truth that your boss was so irrational, hurtful, abusive ...? After all, the employee is the victim, not the boss. I am talking about telling the truth to prospective employer in serious abuse cases, not just because the boss is simply being mean and a jerk.


I don't get this silly "pretend" game ... when can you speak the truth?

Someone who badmouths his boss is perceived as not being a team player. It also raises unnecessary questions in the mind of the interviewer that it may be you who was at fault and maybe that's why you had problems in your last job. Those are exactly the types of perceptions which would make an employer choose one employee over another, all other things being equal.

Put yourself in the place of a prospective employer.... would you choose the person who had a history of friction (even if it wasn't of his own making) or would you choose the person who you perceived as bringing tranquility and competence to his new job?

An interview is like being on a first date. Do you want to hear all the little rough spots in the other person's life during the first glass of wine? Wouldn't you find it strange if, instead of showing interest in the new company and emphasizing the positive, an interviewee bitterly used their brief interview to lambast their former employer? I know I wouldn't hire someone who did that.

I'd also point out that by law, former employers are not allowed to badmouth employees when being called about them. If they can't say anything positive, they are required to say nothing more than the dates or employment and the job title held.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Someone who badmouths his boss is perceived as not being a team player. It also raises unnecessary questions in the mind of the interviewer that it may be you who was at fault and maybe that's why you had problems in your last job. Those are exactly the types of perceptions which would make an employer choose one employee over another, all other things being equal.

Put yourself in the place of a prospective employer.... would you choose the person who had a history of friction (even if it wasn't of his own making) or would you choose the person who you perceived as bringing tranquility and competence to his new job?

An interview is like being on a first date. Do you want to hear all the little rough spots in the other person's life during the first glass of wine? Wouldn't you find it strange if, instead of showing interest in the new company and emphasizing the positive, an interviewee bitterly used their brief interview to lambast their former employer? I know I wouldn't hire someone who did that.

I'd also point out that by law, former employers are not allowed to badmouth employees when being called about them. If they can't say anything positive, they are required to say nothing more than the dates or employment and the job title held.

And how does one learn that the former employer did not follow this law?

 

[mattskramer]

And how does one learn that the former employer did not follow this law?

If you are concerned about what is being said about you there are several companies that, for a fee ranging from $30 to $200, pretend to be a prospective employer, call your past employers, and advice you about what they said. Some question the ethics of such a business but it is legal.

I think that the following are typical services:

http://checkmyreference.com/

http://www.employment-reference.com/index.htm

 

[Paulie]

Why pay a company to do that? That's ridiculous. Just do it yourself, or have a friend do it for you. Works like a charm.

I will say that I have to agree with being neutral about past employers...for your own good. I'm not sure if both sides are protected under the Defamation of Character law, though.

 

[mattskramer]

Why pay a company to do that? That's ridiculous. Just do it yourself, or have a friend do it for you. Works like a charm.

I will say that I have to agree with being neutral about past employers...for your own good. I'm not sure if both sides are protected under the Defamation of Character law, though.

I have never been good at deception. I think that if I were to ask a fried to do it, he might make a mistake. If I were to try to find out what someone thinks of me, I’d hire an experienced “professional”.

 

[The Man @ Lunch]

Actually, many companies have become so afraid that a former employee will come back with a lawsuit against them that they've become extremely strict about what information they're allowed to give to people checking references.

Normally it's limited to (1) date of hire, (2) last date employed, (3) job title(s) held, and (4) salary history. Sometimes managers will be allowed to say whether the person resigned or was terminated, but even this piece of information isn't always given out.

 

[Paulie]

Actually, many companies have become so afraid that a former employee will come back with a lawsuit against them that they've become extremely strict about what information they're allowed to give to people checking references.

Normally it's limited to (1) date of hire, (2) last date employed, (3) job title(s) held, and (4) salary history. Sometimes managers will be allowed to say whether the person resigned or was terminated, but even this piece of information isn't always given out.

In this type of matter though, there's a provision called "the truth is the exception".

If the former employer says something negative, as long as it is the absolute truth, then their ass is pretty much covered by law...most judges will throw out the case in that matter.

The only moral reason to want to say something negative about a former employee, even if it IS the truth, is to protect a prospective employer from some type of danger from that particular employee...like if it involved drugs, weapons, stealing from the company, stuff like that.

If it was because the employee was lazy, or mouthy, and didn't take it in the ass from the boss like everyone else, and eventually got canned, then there's no real reason to give a negative reference about them. That's where the law gets a little hazy.

 

[The Man @ Lunch]

In this type of matter though, there's a provision called "the truth is the exception".

If the former employer says something negative, as long as it is the absolute truth, then their ass is pretty much covered by law...most judges will throw out the case in that matter.

True, but most companies would far prefer to stay out of court entirely than to have a case against them thrown out in the first place. That's the main reason they tend to be so careful about covering their asses: it's the cheapest alternative.

 

[Gem]

I worked as the Student Life and Housing Director at a university for awhile...what I noticed most when looking at resumes was that more and more people are putting in compliments that, when you read them carefully, really aren't compliments.

It seems that people are not willing to be blunt and confrontational...but they are willing to write recommendations like, "worked adequately with others," "competent writing skills," etc. "worked well with some." was one that actually made me laugh out loud.

I would be very hesitant to bad mouth a former boss to a prospective new one - even if it is the truth. There are several reasons for this, 1) The new boss really doesn't give a shit about your old boss...she just wants to make sure you aren't going to go postal and kill people in her office and are going to be able to do the job she wants to hire you for. 2) If he ever has to fire you he wants to know that you aren't going to be sitting in someone else's office badmouthing him and 3) True or not...since the old boss isn't present...it makes you look petty...even if you are completely in the right.

I put it up there with interview mistakes like using thinly veiled positive traits when the employer says, "What are your weaknesses." "Oh...um, I'm a perfectionist...I never stop until I get it just right. And, I am really, really organized and punctual."

 

[manu1959]

Where did this rule come from that you cannot speak badly of your former employers when it would be fully justified? Imagine a situation where you are verbally abused daily, sexually harassed, or maybe your boss has an abuse problem and he/she is just out of control ...

Why do we need to play these idiotic elementary games and pretend otherwise, meaning we'd say something like "I left because I wanted new challenges, new opportunities, whatever excuse ... " rather than telling the truth?

Why is it not OK to tell the truth that your boss was so irrational, hurtful, abusive ...? After all, the employee is the victim, not the boss. I am talking about telling the truth to prospective employer in serious abuse cases, not just because the boss is simply being mean and a jerk.


I don't get this silly "pretend" game ... when can you speak the truth?

i guess for the same reason when someone calls about a past employee that was several rocks short of a full box......you can't say that