Will Senator Ted Cruz and “conservatives” ever offer real tax reform?

johnwk

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With the 2014 election just around the corner “conservatives” have the opportunity to win the hearts and minds of the American people by offering real tax reform. Have most Americans not witnessed the progressive’s disastrous and slavish experiment associated with the 16th Amendment and taxes levied on incomes without apportionment? Have we not recently seen how this very tax has been used during election time to punish and harass those who dare to speak out and against our despotic federal government? Have we not also witnessed for generations how this despicable tax is used by our federal government to not only redistribute the paychecks of America’s hard working productive citizens to fund Washington’s “free cheese wagon”, but how it is also used to tighten the regulatory iron fist of government around the necks of Americans labor, businesses and industries?


Our founding fathers were well aware of the slavish and oppressive nature of taxes which are levied directly upon the people. In speaking of this kind of tax and the evils of an unrestrained power to impose direct taxes, Representative Williams during a debate on Direct Taxes on January 18th, 1797 warns his colleagues:


"History, Mr. Williams said, informed them of the annihilation of nations by means of direct taxation. He referred gentlemen to the situation of the Roman Empire in its innocence, and asked them whether they had any direct taxes? No. Indirect taxes and taxes upon luxuries and spices from the Indies were their sources of revenue; but, as soon as they changed their system to direct taxation, it operated to their ruin; their children were sold as slaves, and the Empire fell from its splendor. Shall we then follow this system? He trusted not."


Unfortunately progressives were able to con the American People in the early 1900s and convinced them to adopt the 16th Amendment. At the time progressives made their appeal to the average working person who was not to be taxed under the proposed Amendment. It was fraudulently sold to the working person as a means to get those greedy corporations to pay their “fair share” in taxes.


During the 16th Amendment debates we find Mr. HEFLIN agitated the working class people into supporting the amendment by saying “An income tax seeks to reach the unearned wealth of the country and to make it pay its share.” 44 Cong. Rec. 4420 (1909). Note the wording “unearned wealth“ as distinguished from earned wages.

And this was shortly after Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia had begun the class warfare attack by preaching to the working poor: As I see it, the fairest of all taxes is of this nature [a tax on gains, profits and unearned income], laid according to wealth, and its universal adoption would be a benign blessing to mankind. The door is shut against it, and the people must continue to groan beneath the burdens of tariff taxes and robbery under the guise of law.” 44 Cong. Rec. 4414 (1909).


But what these cunning con artists really had in mind was to create a taxing power to allow the expansion of the federal government’s manipulative iron fist over the economy which would eventually be used to also squeeze the working people’s earned wages from their pockets in a more devastating manner than any tariff had ever done, and eventually make them dependent upon government for their subsistence! But the progressives, after the adoption of the 16th Amendment, patiently waited for one generation to pass when the intentions for which the amendment was adopted would be forgotten and a war to begin before completing their mission, which was the imposition of the Temporary Victory Tax of 1942!


FDR’s class warfare tax unconstitutionally expanded taxes on “gains, profits and unearned income” to include a 5 percent “temporary” tax upon working people’s “earned wages”. And although the 16th Amendment was sold as a way to tax “unearned income”, the temporary tax on working people’s “earned wages” was sold as a patriotic necessity in the war effort.


And here we are today, 70 years later, and this thieving tax, which robs the bread which poor working people have earned by the sweat of their brow, is still to this very day being collected, and its burden has constantly increased over the years, forcing millions upon millions of poor working people into a state of poverty and then into a dependency upon government for their subsistence ___ an outcome which is needed by our corrupted political leaders to maintain a permanent and captive, dependent voting block!


Now, with this in mind the question is, with another election upon us, will Senator Ted Cruz and “conservatives” step forward and offer real tax reform, or will they do a Mark Levin “fan dance” in order to keep alive a tyrannical tax which every despotic government loves? And how may this type of taxing power be withdrawn from Congress’ reach? It can begin with “conservatives” who run for office in 2014 to propose a 32 word amendment to our Constitution which declares:


The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money


These words, if added to our Constitution, would end taxes calculated from incomes and return us to a consumption based taxing system, which is what our founders intended, and which proved to pave the way for America to become the economic marvel of the world because it held Congress’ greedy taxing appetite in check! Hamilton stresses this in Federalist No 21 with regard to taxes on articles of consumption:


“There is no method of steering clear of this inconvenience, but by authorizing the national government to raise its own revenues in its own way. Imposts, excises, and, in general, all duties upon articles of consumption, may be compared to a fluid, which will, in time, find its level with the means of paying them. The amount to be contributed by each citizen will in a degree be at his own option, and can be regulated by an attention to his resources. The rich may be extravagant, the poor can be frugal; and private oppression may always be avoided by a judicious selection of objects proper for such impositions. If inequalities should arise in some States from duties on particular objects, these will, in all probability, be counter balanced by proportional inequalities in other States, from the duties on other objects. In the course of time and things, an equilibrium, as far as it is attainable in so complicated a subject, will be established everywhere. Or, if inequalities should still exist, they would neither be so great in their degree, so uniform in their operation, nor so odious in their appearance, as those which would necessarily spring from quotas, upon any scale that can possibly be devised.


It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess. They prescribe their own limit; which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed, that is, an extension of the revenue. When applied to this object, the saying is as just as it is witty, that, "in political arithmetic, two and two do not always make four .'' If duties are too high, they lessen the consumption; the collection is eluded; and the product to the treasury is not so great as when they are confined within proper and moderate bounds. This forms a complete barrier against any material oppression of the citizens by taxes of this class, and is itself a natural limitation of the power of imposing them.”



I suspect if “conservatives” running for office this coming election unite in an agreement to send the above 32 word amendment to the States for ratification if they are elected, it will not only verify they are true conservatives who want to return to our nation’s founding principles which includes its original tax plan, but they are willing to confront the existing Washington establishment head on which now thrives from and worships the socialist/progressive inspired tax calculated from profits, gains and other incomes.


JWK


“Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”, no longer in print.
 

DiamondDave

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With politicians more interested in power than in equality or 'the right thing', you will not see a push for any good tax system such as a flat tax.. you will get pandering for votes with handouts from the DEMs and pandering for votes and support with deductions and exemptions by the REPs

And of course neither party has been interested in the true necessity of slashing government spending... for that lessens power too
 

MarcATL

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With the 2014 election just around the corner “conservatives” have the opportunity to win the hearts and minds of the American people by offering real tax reform. Have most Americans not witnessed the progressive’s disastrous and slavish experiment associated with the 16th Amendment and taxes levied on incomes without apportionment? Have we not recently seen how this very tax has been used during election time to punish and harass those who dare to speak out and against our despotic federal government? Have we not also witnessed for generations how this despicable tax is used by our federal government to not only redistribute the paychecks of America’s hard working productive citizens to fund Washington’s “free cheese wagon”, but how it is also used to tighten the regulatory iron fist of government around the necks of Americans labor, businesses and industries?


Our founding fathers were well aware of the slavish and oppressive nature of taxes which are levied directly upon the people. In speaking of this kind of tax and the evils of an unrestrained power to impose direct taxes, Representative Williams during a debate on Direct Taxes on January 18th, 1797 warns his colleagues:


"History, Mr. Williams said, informed them of the annihilation of nations by means of direct taxation. He referred gentlemen to the situation of the Roman Empire in its innocence, and asked them whether they had any direct taxes? No. Indirect taxes and taxes upon luxuries and spices from the Indies were their sources of revenue; but, as soon as they changed their system to direct taxation, it operated to their ruin; their children were sold as slaves, and the Empire fell from its splendor. Shall we then follow this system? He trusted not."


Unfortunately progressives were able to con the American People in the early 1900s and convinced them to adopt the 16th Amendment. At the time progressives made their appeal to the average working person who was not to be taxed under the proposed Amendment. It was fraudulently sold to the working person as a means to get those greedy corporations to pay their “fair share” in taxes.


During the 16th Amendment debates we find Mr. HEFLIN agitated the working class people into supporting the amendment by saying “An income tax seeks to reach the unearned wealth of the country and to make it pay its share.” 44 Cong. Rec. 4420 (1909). Note the wording “unearned wealth“ as distinguished from earned wages.

And this was shortly after Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia had begun the class warfare attack by preaching to the working poor: As I see it, the fairest of all taxes is of this nature [a tax on gains, profits and unearned income], laid according to wealth, and its universal adoption would be a benign blessing to mankind. The door is shut against it, and the people must continue to groan beneath the burdens of tariff taxes and robbery under the guise of law.” 44 Cong. Rec. 4414 (1909).


But what these cunning con artists really had in mind was to create a taxing power to allow the expansion of the federal government’s manipulative iron fist over the economy which would eventually be used to also squeeze the working people’s earned wages from their pockets in a more devastating manner than any tariff had ever done, and eventually make them dependent upon government for their subsistence! But the progressives, after the adoption of the 16th Amendment, patiently waited for one generation to pass when the intentions for which the amendment was adopted would be forgotten and a war to begin before completing their mission, which was the imposition of the Temporary Victory Tax of 1942!


FDR’s class warfare tax unconstitutionally expanded taxes on “gains, profits and unearned income” to include a 5 percent “temporary” tax upon working people’s “earned wages”. And although the 16th Amendment was sold as a way to tax “unearned income”, the temporary tax on working people’s “earned wages” was sold as a patriotic necessity in the war effort.


And here we are today, 70 years later, and this thieving tax, which robs the bread which poor working people have earned by the sweat of their brow, is still to this very day being collected, and its burden has constantly increased over the years, forcing millions upon millions of poor working people into a state of poverty and then into a dependency upon government for their subsistence ___ an outcome which is needed by our corrupted political leaders to maintain a permanent and captive, dependent voting block!


Now, with this in mind the question is, with another election upon us, will Senator Ted Cruz and “conservatives” step forward and offer real tax reform, or will they do a Mark Levin “fan dance” in order to keep alive a tyrannical tax which every despotic government loves? And how may this type of taxing power be withdrawn from Congress’ reach? It can begin with “conservatives” who run for office in 2014 to propose a 32 word amendment to our Constitution which declares:


The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money


These words, if added to our Constitution, would end taxes calculated from incomes and return us to a consumption based taxing system, which is what our founders intended, and which proved to pave the way for America to become the economic marvel of the world because it held Congress’ greedy taxing appetite in check! Hamilton stresses this in Federalist No 21 with regard to taxes on articles of consumption:


“There is no method of steering clear of this inconvenience, but by authorizing the national government to raise its own revenues in its own way. Imposts, excises, and, in general, all duties upon articles of consumption, may be compared to a fluid, which will, in time, find its level with the means of paying them. The amount to be contributed by each citizen will in a degree be at his own option, and can be regulated by an attention to his resources. The rich may be extravagant, the poor can be frugal; and private oppression may always be avoided by a judicious selection of objects proper for such impositions. If inequalities should arise in some States from duties on particular objects, these will, in all probability, be counter balanced by proportional inequalities in other States, from the duties on other objects. In the course of time and things, an equilibrium, as far as it is attainable in so complicated a subject, will be established everywhere. Or, if inequalities should still exist, they would neither be so great in their degree, so uniform in their operation, nor so odious in their appearance, as those which would necessarily spring from quotas, upon any scale that can possibly be devised.


It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess. They prescribe their own limit; which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed, that is, an extension of the revenue. When applied to this object, the saying is as just as it is witty, that, "in political arithmetic, two and two do not always make four .'' If duties are too high, they lessen the consumption; the collection is eluded; and the product to the treasury is not so great as when they are confined within proper and moderate bounds. This forms a complete barrier against any material oppression of the citizens by taxes of this class, and is itself a natural limitation of the power of imposing them.”



I suspect if “conservatives” running for office this coming election unite in an agreement to send the above 32 word amendment to the States for ratification if they are elected, it will not only verify they are true conservatives who want to return to our nation’s founding principles which includes its original tax plan, but they are willing to confront the existing Washington establishment head on which now thrives from and worships the socialist/progressive inspired tax calculated from profits, gains and other incomes.


JWK


“Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”, no longer in print.
the short and simple answer is no...the Republicans won't do a DAMN thing about tax reforms other than give lip service.

Same as usual.
 

Jroc

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Where you people been?....

This plan discards a needlessly complex and manipulative tax code, replacing it with a simplified mechanism that promotes work, saving, and investment.
•Provides individual income tax payers a choice of how to pay their taxes – through existing law, or through a highly simplified code that fits on a postcard with just two rates and virtually no special tax deductions, credits, or exclusions (except the health care tax credit).
•Simplifies tax rates to 10 percent on income up to $100,000 for joint filers, and $50,000 for single filers; and 25 percent on taxable income above these amounts. Also includes a generous standard deduction and personal exemption (totaling $39,000 for a family of four).
•Eliminates the alternative minimum tax [AMT].
•Promotes saving by eliminating taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends; also eliminates the death tax.
•Replaces the corporate income tax – currently the second highest in the industrialized world – with a border-adjustable business consumption tax of 8.5 percent. This new rate is roughly half that of the rest of the industrialized world.
Tax Reforms | A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans
 
OP
J

johnwk

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With politicians more interested in power than in equality or 'the right thing', you will not see a push for any good tax system such as a flat tax..
Why do you think the socialist flat tax on profits, gains, and other incomes is a good tax system? It would keep alive our Washington Establishment's hand in our pocket and all the other miseries associated with that kind of tax.


Why not support and promote something like this:


House/Senate Joint Resolution

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the sixteenth article of amendment and end taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other “incomes”.

Section 1: The sixteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

Section 2: Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

Section 3: This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by three fourths of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission thereof to the States by the Congress.


This proposal would return us to our Constitution's original tax plan and its checks and balances which were designed to promote a free market system.



I believe this would give America’s working people and business owners something to unite under and then work to elect members to Congress this coming election who will make the adoption of this proposal part of their campaign.


We already know the terrible damage the socialist tax calculated from “incomes” has done to America, and selling the repeal of this horrid tax, which is a source of our progressive’s power in Washington, and forcing Congress to once again raise its revenue from imposts, duties, excise taxes and an apportioned tax among the states if found necessary, is not a difficult task. But we have to start somewhere and so I ask: Will Senator Ted Cruz and “conservatives” offer real tax reform this coming election?

JWK


Today’s corrupted politics is all about the Benjamins, and which political party's leadership can put their hand deeper into the productive working person’s pocket
 

Joe Steel

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The only fair method of taxation is a steeply progressive income tax. Our tax policy should be reformed to add more tax brackets and to increase marginal tax rates at every level to a maximum rate of at least 90% on the top tax bracket. That would spread the cost of American burden fairly.
 

zeke

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With politicians more interested in power than in equality or 'the right thing', you will not see a push for any good tax system such as a flat tax..
Why do you think the socialist flat tax on profits, gains, and other incomes is a good tax system? It would keep alive our Washington Establishment's hand in our pocket and all the other miseries associated with that kind of tax.


Why not support and promote something like this:


House/Senate Joint Resolution

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the sixteenth article of amendment and end taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other “incomes”.

Section 1: The sixteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

Section 2: Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

Section 3: This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by three fourths of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission thereof to the States by the Congress.


This proposal would return us to our Constitution's original tax plan and its checks and balances which were designed to promote a free market system.



I believe this would give America’s working people and business owners something to unite under and then work to elect members to Congress this coming election who will make the adoption of this proposal part of their campaign.


We already know the terrible damage the socialist tax calculated from “incomes” has done to America, and selling the repeal of this horrid tax, which is a source of our progressive’s power in Washington, and forcing Congress to once again raise its revenue from imposts, duties, excise taxes and an apportioned tax among the states if found necessary, is not a difficult task. But we have to start somewhere and so I ask: Will Senator Ted Cruz and “conservatives” offer real tax reform this coming election?

JWK


Today’s corrupted politics is all about the Benjamins, and which political party's leadership can put their hand deeper into the productive working person’s pocket

Hey, should the country declare bankruptcy BEFORE or AFTER the repeal of the 16th? Just curious. I would declare BK before. How about you?
 

Edgetho

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When are you going to learn, dimocraps aren't part of a political group, they're cultists.

And dimocraps don't compromise.

Did they compromise on Obamacare? Or did they ram it through on midnight of Christmas Eve with bribes, backroom deals, and thousands of hidden pages of legislation?

Did they compromise on Global Warming? Or did the president command the EPA to issue CO2 regulations when even a Democrat-controlled Congress couldn’t pass cap-and-trade legislation?

Did they compromise on the Stimulus package, ramming through trillions in deficit spending that has utterly failed to rescue anything except for the public sector unions’ campaign coffers?

Did they compromise on their outrageous financial reform legislation (“Dodd-Frank”) that is spreading misery and layoffs throughout the country?

Actually, I don’t recall a single Democrat compromise on any of these outrageous measures. Not a one.

And they won't compromise on Tax Reform

dimocraps only compromise in one direction. Time to wise up, people
 

rightwinger

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Conservatives never actually offer anything

They will tell you what they do not like but will never allow themselves to be pinned down on what they actually support
 

Darkwind

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The only fair method of taxation is a steeply progressive income tax. Our tax policy should be reformed to add more tax brackets and to increase marginal tax rates at every level to a maximum rate of at least 90% on the top tax bracket. That would spread the cost of American burden fairly.
1fair

adjective \ˈfer\ : agreeing with what is thought to be right or acceptable
: treating people in a way that does not favor some over others
: not too harsh or critical
Might want to relearn the definition of fair. I do not agree with what you think is right or acceptable, nor does over half the country.

I want a tax system that is equitable. Meaning that each person is taxed at the same rate, regardless of income.

Actually, I want taxation eliminated at the Federal level completely, and to have each state tithe their share of the federal burden to the Feds for things like defense, interstate commerce, parks, and of course, foreign interaction. In other words, the right and proper and legitimate functions of Federal Government.
 
Last edited:

Edgetho

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Conservatives never actually offer anything

They will tell you what they do not like but will never allow themselves to be pinned down on what they actually support
You are either a lying cultist or a very stupid dimocrap.

Come to think of it, they're about the same.... :dunno:
 

Joe Steel

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The only fair method of taxation is a steeply progressive income tax. Our tax policy should be reformed to add more tax brackets and to increase marginal tax rates at every level to a maximum rate of at least 90% on the top tax bracket. That would spread the cost of American burden fairly.
1fair

adjective \ˈfer\ : agreeing with what is thought to be right or acceptable
: treating people in a way that does not favor some over others
: not too harsh or critical
Might want to relearn the definition of fair. I don't not agree with what you think is right or acceptable, nor does over half the country.

I want a tax system that is equitable. Meaning that each person is taxed at the same rate, regardless of income.
Take your own advice. Fairness does not mean everyone is treated the same way. Doing so would favor some over others.

That is not equitable. For taxation, equity is a the degree of burden a tax creates. Some taxpayers might not be able to bear the same tax rate as others.
 

zeke

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Somebody anybody show me how it would work out IF we repealed the 16th.

All of a sudden, the debt accrued by tax and spend methods would do what exactly?
The government would honor its debt and obligations exactly HOW with no assured income.

Like I said. Repeal the 16th. But do you declare bankruptcy before or after?

You gotta do something with that national debt. What is it you all think could be done?
After the income from the income tax is gone?
 

ClosedCaption

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Think of Tax Reform like the Carrot and Repubs are the Donkey.
 

rightwinger

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Conservatives never actually offer anything

They will tell you what they do not like but will never allow themselves to be pinned down on what they actually support
You are either a lying cultist or a very stupid dimocrap.

Come to think of it, they're about the same.... :dunno:
Still waiting on that Healthcare Plan
 

Edgetho

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Conservatives never actually offer anything

They will tell you what they do not like but will never allow themselves to be pinned down on what they actually support
You are either a lying cultist or a very stupid dimocrap.

Come to think of it, they're about the same.... :dunno:
Still waiting on that Healthcare Plan
I've shown five of them to you three times. Not my fault you're too stupid to read them.

If I can find one written in crayon, I'll post if for you.

Stop stalking me bitch. You think I don't know what you're doing? Asking the same question over and over while refusing to acknowledge that I've answered it?

That's stalking. Stop it
 

Soggy in NOLA

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The only fair method of taxation is a steeply progressive income tax. Our tax policy should be reformed to add more tax brackets and to increase marginal tax rates at every level to a maximum rate of at least 90% on the top tax bracket. That would spread the cost of American burden fairly.
So, it's fair to shoulder one segment of the population with the bulk of the tax burden?

How in ay way is it fair to have the majority of Americans paying nothing?
 

DiamondDave

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With politicians more interested in power than in equality or 'the right thing', you will not see a push for any good tax system such as a flat tax..
Why do you think the socialist flat tax on profits, gains, and other incomes is a good tax system? It would keep alive our Washington Establishment's hand in our pocket and all the other miseries associated with that kind of tax.


Why not support and promote something like this:


House/Senate Joint Resolution

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the sixteenth article of amendment and end taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other “incomes”.

Section 1: The sixteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

Section 2: Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

Section 3: This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by three fourths of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission thereof to the States by the Congress.


This proposal would return us to our Constitution's original tax plan and its checks and balances which were designed to promote a free market system.



I believe this would give America’s working people and business owners something to unite under and then work to elect members to Congress this coming election who will make the adoption of this proposal part of their campaign.


We already know the terrible damage the socialist tax calculated from “incomes” has done to America, and selling the repeal of this horrid tax, which is a source of our progressive’s power in Washington, and forcing Congress to once again raise its revenue from imposts, duties, excise taxes and an apportioned tax among the states if found necessary, is not a difficult task. But we have to start somewhere and so I ask: Will Senator Ted Cruz and “conservatives” offer real tax reform this coming election?

JWK


Today’s corrupted politics is all about the Benjamins, and which political party's leadership can put their hand deeper into the productive working person’s pocket
Because our current level of national defense, size of government systems, etc will not operate under just a tariff or excise system...

And it is highly doubtful there will be any repeal of any current amendment...

So, being easier to pass a law about equalized taxation rates on all income without exception, exemption, ceiling, floor, or deduction would be easier and still keep with the mantra of equal treatment by government under law
 

DiamondDave

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The only fair method of taxation is a steeply progressive income tax. Our tax policy should be reformed to add more tax brackets and to increase marginal tax rates at every level to a maximum rate of at least 90% on the top tax bracket. That would spread the cost of American burden fairly.
FAIR is subjective.. period

It is FAIR in your eyes when you get to pay a lesser rate and someone else who you envy is forced to pay more... and no fucking way does any government deserve 90% of anyone's income

Fucking wealth redistribution promoting idiots
 

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