Why Were Christian Constitutional Conservatives So Wrong About Abortion??

[Couchpotato]

Practice What You Preach

Proof that it is not a baby and that nobody really believes it is a baby is how stupid it would look to splash holy water on a pregnant woman's belly. Yet, according to Church doctrine, it has to be done so that, if the fetus doesn't survive, the baby would go to heaven instead of Limbo.

So your “proof“ that a fetus isn’t a life is that it would be stupid to splash water on a woman’s belly. Is that accurate?

 

[Couchpotato]

Catholic Church maybe. Not the entirety of the Christian faith

The Sage of Main Street

Wanna post something to dispute that?

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation. Proof of this is the thief who was crucified next the Christ went to heaven, and he most certainly wasn't baptized.

Requiring baptism would be salvation by works not faith alone which runs completely contrary to the Christian religion.

Ep 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

You really are this uninformed and educated aren't you?
They overturned it because abortion has never been coded into law.
Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats had a CLEAR MAJORITY for 19 years straight to correct that problem.
THEY NEVER DID.
And you are blaming the SCOTUS for having the duty to correctly point out they do not have the authority to codify law.
That is the reason the legislative branch exist.

READ A BOOK

Nine Players Who Think They Are a Diamond

Even opponents of judicial review, such as myself, recognize SCROTUS's right to determine jurisdiction. In this recent decision, they told Congress that it had no right to codify any laws about abortion; only state legislatures or state referendums have the right to do that. So anyone who thinks Congress can pass a law making abortion a national right doesn't understand jurisdiction.

For example, flag-burning. SCROTUS had no right to decree that it is a Constitutional right. Congress can do so about the national flag, which is under their jurisdiction, while the states can only protect their own state flags.

Why is it that any Congressman who dared to vote for that treason wouldn't have a prayer in running for re-election, so it will never happen, but nine unelected political lawyers, who would never have made it in private practice, can mandate that this treason be tolerated and still sit on the bench, their fat asses smothering the face of liberty?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The Sage of Main Street

Wanna post something to dispute that?

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation. Proof of this is the thief who was crucified next the Christ went to heaven, and he most certainly wasn't baptized.

Requiring baptism would be salvation by works not faith alone which runs completely contrary to the Christian religion.

Ep 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

A Fetus-Fetish Is a Psychological Disorder

Here's more proof that common sense tells us it's not a baby and the Christofascists don't really believe it is, either; they like to make up sins so they can boss people around. Why don't they enforce giving a Christian burial to every miscarriage, which is their idea of a dead baby? Why, when we ask a woman how many children she has had, we'll never hear the weird answer, "Three. One miscarriage, one abortion, and my son right here"?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Because they were right back then. The Bible says nothing about abortion. This is a political movement that is no different from the mullahs in Iran who impose their religious beliefs on the people of Iran. You right wing fascists want to take over America and impose your ways on us just as dictators like Hitler did.

A Dress Rehearsal for Civil War or Revolutionary War

Populists will drive the Rightists out of the Republican Party, just as Communist degenerates drove the Populists out of the "Democratic" Party. And we will put "Republican" in scare quotes, because a republic is elitist tyranny and the most effective enemy of Populism.

 

[miketx]

Because they were right back then. The Bible says nothing about abortion. This is a political movement that is no different than the mullahs in Iran who impose their religious beliefs on the people of Iran. You right wing fascists want to take over America and impose your ways on us just as dictators like Hitler did.

Leftists never stop lying. You butchers want to control everyone. We just want to be left alone.

 

[Dragonlady]

Leftists never stop lying. You butchers want to control everyone. We just want to be left alone.

You're the "butchers" here. Women are dying and not only are you OK with it, you're actually cheering their suffering.

If you genuinely believe your "saving" babies, you've been duped and used. You're killing women.

 

[miketx]

You're the "butchers" here. Women are dying and not only are you OK with it, you're actually cheering their suffering.

If you genuinely believe your "saving" babies, you've been duped and used. You're killing women.

Good.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

You're the "butchers" here. Women are dying and not only are you OK with it, you're actually cheering their suffering.

If you genuinely believe your "saving" babies, you've been duped and used. You're killing women.

Histrionic nonsensical bullshit.

 

[beautress]

Simple question.....thru-out the 60's and 70's -- why did so many Christian Conservatives who professed love for the Constitution; get it so wrong about abortion??

"White evangelicals in the 1970s did not mobilize against Roe v. Wade, which they considered a Catholic issue. They organized instead to defend racial segregation in evangelical institutions, including Bob Jones University. The historical record is clear. In 1968, Christianity Today, the flagship magazine of evangelicalism, organized a conference with the Christian Medical Society The historical record is clear. In 1968, Christianity Today, the flagship magazine of evangelicalism, organized a conference with the Christian Medical Society -- they concluded: “Whether the performance of an induced abortion is sinful we are not agreed,” the statement read, “but about the necessity of it and permissibility for it under certain circumstances we are in accord. Carl F. H. Henry, the magazine’s founder, affirmed that “a woman’s body is not the domain and property of others,"

The Religious Right and the Abortion Myth

White evangelicals in the 1970s didn’t initially care about abortion. They organized to defend racial segregation in evangelical institutions — and only seized on banning abortion because it was more palatable than their real goal.

www.politico.com

How could someone like the Christian Medical Society get it so wrong?? Did they not know Jesus is against abortion? The same Bible they used to condemn abortion now is the same Bible that existed then...how could they claim abortion is a necessity and permissible? Did they not care about the children? But it gets worse.....

"Meeting in St. Louis in 1971, the messengers (delegates) to the Southern Baptist Convention, hardly a redoubt of liberalism, passed a resolution calling for the legalization of abortion, a position they reaffirmed in 1974 — a year after Roe — and again in 1976. When the Roe decision was handed down, W. A. Criswell, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas and sometime president of the Southern Baptist Convention, issued a statement praising the ruling. “I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person,” Criswell declared."

Again, what Bible were these people looking at?? Abortion is murder and mothers should be put to death for such an abomination....why was there so much ambiguity on this?? No such wishy washy language existed when they were using Biblical justifications to call for executing gays or railing against the evils of desegregation and miscegenation -- why not that same heat for abortion?? but wait, there's more....even Ronald Reagan, the second coming of Jesus himself, signed into law a big pro-abortion bill...was he not a conservative then?? Did he not love Jesus?

"When the issue surfaced in the first months of his governorship, Reagan was unsure how to react. Surprising as it may seem today, in 1967 abortion was not the great public issue that it is today. Reagan later admitted that abortion had been “a subject I’d never given much thought to.”

Reagan’s Darkest Hour | National Review

As president, Ronald Reagan was an unflagging champion of unborn human life. “Today there is a wound in our national conscience,” Reagan told a joint session of Congress in his 1986 State of the Un…

www.nationalreview.com

How could he have never given much thought to it, but then signed the most liberal pro-abortion bill in the country that year? Hell, even the great superhero Libertarian Conservative, Ayn Rand said this about abortion.....

View attachment 662093


I mean I know she is an Atheist and you right-wingers give her a pass because she hated black folks and other shit as much as you did -- but even for a Jesus-hating atheist, this is pretty twisted stuff from her.....how did these Conservatives get it all wrong -- and then all suddenly in the span of a few years -- suddenly launch a crusade against abortion and women's health rights??

Oh, I remember......racism......

"After several decades of research, I can state without fear of contradiction that evangelicals mobilized politically in the 1970s not, as commonly supposed, in opposition to the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade ruling of 1973, but rather in defense of racial segregation at Bob Jones University and at all-white “segregation academies,” many of them church-sponsored. The durability of what I call the abortion myth, the fiction that opposition to legalized abortion was the catalyst of their movement, can be attributed to the founders of the Religious Right themselves."

Column: Race, Reagan and the rise of the Religious Right

The overwhelming white evangelical support for Donald Trump is a puzzle that will occupy historians for generations. How can the Religious Right, a movement that trumpets its fidelity to “family values,” throw its support to a vulgar, thrice-married...

www.vnews.com

Like how Ronald Reagan campaigned in 1980 to defend the right of universities like Bob Jones to racially segregate....I guess that is how Bob Jones was able to get away with banning interracial dating on their campus all the way up to the year 2000....Or how the founder of the Religious Right, Paul Weyrich was pissed that the IRS were planning to rescind the tax-exempt statuses of religious institutions that instituted segregation....in the papers he wrote; he essentially admitted: "Now, Falwell and other leaders of the Religious Right had a “respectable” issue, opposition to abortion, one that would energize white evangelicals — and, not incidentally, divert attention from the real origins of "our movement."

Paul M. Weyrich papers - Archives West

Archives West provides access to descriptions of primary sources in the western United States, including correspondence, diaries, and photographs. Digital reproductions of primary sources are available in some cases. Archives West was formerly known as the Northwest Digital Archives (NWDA).

archiveswest.orbiscascade.org

So once abortion is banned at the federal level, because that is definitely next -- what more red meat can you offer to the rabid evangelical base?? Because the beast will have to be fed.....can't be abortion anymore....Contraceptives?? Yea, that may hold them off for a moment....but sooner or later, you are going to have to throw them a bone and do something about their first love....segregation....at least bring back the whole separate but equal doctrine and use that to get your segregation rocks off....it's definitely coming...people like me have been right about the religious right so far.....even when so-called "small government Conservatives" were assuring us "relax bro, you are just overreacting, no one is asking for that" -- when it came to banning abortion, same-sex marriages, epealing Lawrence v Texas; and ultimately attacking the very concept of the 14th amendment....oh, but when that pendulum swings back in the other direction....I doubt many of the reactionary right-wingers will be able to handle it...they are far too fragile to deal with an ounce of the oppression they love seeing inflicted on others...because for a right-winger, equality feels like oppression...always have been....

Everything the bible says with re to childbirth is that little children should be suffered to be born, to be taught right behaviors because we believe we are God's creations, and a fetus even in its earliest stage is precious to God. We're not wrong, Biffy, but some people just never grow up to their responsibilities, one of which when a child is conceived, it deserves to be born if that is at all possible.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Simple question.....thru-out the 60's and 70's -- why did so many Christian Conservatives who professed love for the Constitution; get it so wrong about abortion??

"White evangelicals in the 1970s did not mobilize against Roe v. Wade, which they considered a Catholic issue. They organized instead to defend racial segregation in evangelical institutions, including Bob Jones University. The historical record is clear. In 1968, Christianity Today, the flagship magazine of evangelicalism, organized a conference with the Christian Medical Society The historical record is clear. In 1968, Christianity Today, the flagship magazine of evangelicalism, organized a conference with the Christian Medical Society -- they concluded: “Whether the performance of an induced abortion is sinful we are not agreed,” the statement read, “but about the necessity of it and permissibility for it under certain circumstances we are in accord. Carl F. H. Henry, the magazine’s founder, affirmed that “a woman’s body is not the domain and property of others,"

The Religious Right and the Abortion Myth

White evangelicals in the 1970s didn’t initially care about abortion. They organized to defend racial segregation in evangelical institutions — and only seized on banning abortion because it was more palatable than their real goal.

www.politico.com

How could someone like the Christian Medical Society get it so wrong?? Did they not know Jesus is against abortion? The same Bible they used to condemn abortion now is the same Bible that existed then...how could they claim abortion is a necessity and permissible? Did they not care about the children? But it gets worse.....

"Meeting in St. Louis in 1971, the messengers (delegates) to the Southern Baptist Convention, hardly a redoubt of liberalism, passed a resolution calling for the legalization of abortion, a position they reaffirmed in 1974 — a year after Roe — and again in 1976. When the Roe decision was handed down, W. A. Criswell, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas and sometime president of the Southern Baptist Convention, issued a statement praising the ruling. “I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person,” Criswell declared."

Again, what Bible were these people looking at?? Abortion is murder and mothers should be put to death for such an abomination....why was there so much ambiguity on this?? No such wishy washy language existed when they were using Biblical justifications to call for executing gays or railing against the evils of desegregation and miscegenation -- why not that same heat for abortion?? but wait, there's more....even Ronald Reagan, the second coming of Jesus himself, signed into law a big pro-abortion bill...was he not a conservative then?? Did he not love Jesus?

"When the issue surfaced in the first months of his governorship, Reagan was unsure how to react. Surprising as it may seem today, in 1967 abortion was not the great public issue that it is today. Reagan later admitted that abortion had been “a subject I’d never given much thought to.”

Reagan’s Darkest Hour | National Review

As president, Ronald Reagan was an unflagging champion of unborn human life. “Today there is a wound in our national conscience,” Reagan told a joint session of Congress in his 1986 State of the Un…

www.nationalreview.com

How could he have never given much thought to it, but then signed the most liberal pro-abortion bill in the country that year? Hell, even the great superhero Libertarian Conservative, Ayn Rand said this about abortion.....

View attachment 662093


I mean I know she is an Atheist and you right-wingers give her a pass because she hated black folks and other shit as much as you did -- but even for a Jesus-hating atheist, this is pretty twisted stuff from her.....how did these Conservatives get it all wrong -- and then all suddenly in the span of a few years -- suddenly launch a crusade against abortion and women's health rights??

Oh, I remember......racism......

"After several decades of research, I can state without fear of contradiction that evangelicals mobilized politically in the 1970s not, as commonly supposed, in opposition to the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade ruling of 1973, but rather in defense of racial segregation at Bob Jones University and at all-white “segregation academies,” many of them church-sponsored. The durability of what I call the abortion myth, the fiction that opposition to legalized abortion was the catalyst of their movement, can be attributed to the founders of the Religious Right themselves."

Column: Race, Reagan and the rise of the Religious Right

The overwhelming white evangelical support for Donald Trump is a puzzle that will occupy historians for generations. How can the Religious Right, a movement that trumpets its fidelity to “family values,” throw its support to a vulgar, thrice-married...

www.vnews.com

Like how Ronald Reagan campaigned in 1980 to defend the right of universities like Bob Jones to racially segregate....I guess that is how Bob Jones was able to get away with banning interracial dating on their campus all the way up to the year 2000....Or how the founder of the Religious Right, Paul Weyrich was pissed that the IRS were planning to rescind the tax-exempt statuses of religious institutions that instituted segregation....in the papers he wrote; he essentially admitted: "Now, Falwell and other leaders of the Religious Right had a “respectable” issue, opposition to abortion, one that would energize white evangelicals — and, not incidentally, divert attention from the real origins of "our movement."

Paul M. Weyrich papers - Archives West

Archives West provides access to descriptions of primary sources in the western United States, including correspondence, diaries, and photographs. Digital reproductions of primary sources are available in some cases. Archives West was formerly known as the Northwest Digital Archives (NWDA).

archiveswest.orbiscascade.org

So once abortion is banned at the federal level, because that is definitely next -- what more red meat can you offer to the rabid evangelical base?? Because the beast will have to be fed.....can't be abortion anymore....Contraceptives?? Yea, that may hold them off for a moment....but sooner or later, you are going to have to throw them a bone and do something about their first love....segregation....at least bring back the whole separate but equal doctrine and use that to get your segregation rocks off....it's definitely coming...people like me have been right about the religious right so far.....even when so-called "small government Conservatives" were assuring us "relax bro, you are just overreacting, no one is asking for that" -- when it came to banning abortion, same-sex marriages, epealing Lawrence v Texas; and ultimately attacking the very concept of the 14th amendment....oh, but when that pendulum swings back in the other direction....I doubt many of the reactionary right-wingers will be able to handle it...they are far too fragile to deal with an ounce of the oppression they love seeing inflicted on others...because for a right-winger, equality feels like oppression...always have been....

I appreciate the effort, but your post makes minimal sense.

Roe vs. Wade was arguably the first classic case in SCOTUS judicial activism... Abortion wasn't legal in most states, and people weren't overwhelmingly calling for it at the time.

When it was imposed, it was shocking, not some "victory" for women.

Now, today's past few generations act as if it's been one of the foundations of our country, when it's only been around for a cup of coffee, and was pushed by powerful leftist judges.

 

[jc456]

A Fetus-Fetish Is a Psychological Disorder

Here's more proof that common sense tells us it's not a baby and the Christofascists don't really believe it is, either; they like to make up sins so they can boss people around. Why don't they enforce giving a Christian burial to every miscarriage, which is their idea of a dead baby? Why, when we ask a woman how many children she has had, we'll never hear the weird answer, "Three. One miscarriage, one abortion, and my son right here"?

Why do you believe a human life is dispensable so women can have unprotected sex?

 

[BULLDOG]

Everything the bible says with re to childbirth is that little children should be suffered to be born, to be taught right behaviors because we believe we are God's creations, and a fetus even in its earliest stage is precious to God. We're not wrong, Biffy, but some people just never grow up to their responsibilities, one of which when a child is conceived, it deserves to be born if that is at all possible.

Abortion is not mentioned in the bible, other than instructions to induce one if a husband suspects his wife of infedelity. Abortion was practiced at that time, but not mentioned.

 

[Dragonlady]

Leftists never stop lying. You butchers want to control everyone. We just want to be left alone.

Don't YOU have it backwards???

If you think abortion is wrong, don't have one, but leave the rest of us alone.

 

[Couchpotato]

Abortion is not mentioned in the bible, other than instructions to induce one if a husband suspects his wife of infedelity. Abortion was practiced at that time, but not mentioned.

Doesnt say you shouldn’t rape young girls either. Or torture puppies. Or take a blow torch to grandma. The Bible isn’t a list of all the things you arent supposed to do.

 

[Couchpotato]

You're the "butchers" here. Women are dying and not only are you OK with it, you're actually cheering their suffering.

If you genuinely believe your "saving" babies, you've been duped and used. You're killing women.

The maternal mortality rate is just under 10 per 100k births. At 3.5 births a year that‘s less than 350. More women drown in swimming pools than as a result of pregnancy each year. Shouldn’t we ban swimming? Women are dying because of your support of swimming.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

If you think abortion is wrong, don't have one, but leave the rest of us alone.

If you think rape is wrong, don't force yourself on anyone, but let everyone else do as they will.


This is literally your insane, garbage "logic."

 

[BULLDOG]

Doesnt say you shouldn’t rape young girls either. Or torture puppies. Or take a blow torch to grandma. The Bible isn’t a list of all the things you arent supposed to do.

Seems you don't know much about the Bible.
Actually, the bible orders rape, and the punishment for rape is exactly the same as seducing an unmarried woman.
Numbers 31:17-18,40-41
Why would God tell Moses to keep the virgin girls alive after killing their brothers, mothers, and fathers? Surely sex would not be consensual after such a genocide. Also, the Hebrew does specify women children

**Deuteronomy 22:22-29 **
Raping an unmarried woman in verse 28 is treated the same as consensually seducing an unmarried woman in Numbers 22:16

—Proverbs 12:10
The Bible and Jewish law teach us to treat animals with kindness and respect and to protect nature and conserve its resources.

Leviticus 19:32
"'Rise in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly and revere your God.

 

[Couchpotato]

Seems you don't know much about the Bible.
Actually, the bible orders rape, and the punishment for rape is exactly the same as seducing an unmarried woman.
Numbers 31:17-18,40-41
Why would God tell Moses to keep the virgin girls alive after killing their brothers, mothers, and fathers? Surely sex would not be consensual after such a genocide. Also, the Hebrew does specify women children

**Deuteronomy 22:22-29 **
Raping an unmarried woman in verse 28 is treated the same as consensually seducing an unmarried woman in Numbers 22:16

—Proverbs 12:10
The Bible and Jewish law teach us to treat animals with kindness and respect and to protect nature and conserve its resources.

Leviticus 19:32
"'Rise in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly and revere your God.

Pretty sure it says not to kill people in the Bible as well. Yes I’m sure I’ve read that somewhere in there. But you want to be specific. So post the verse where it say you shouldnt torture puppies specifically or you shouldn’t burn Grandma with a blowtorch. It’s nit in there so must be ok.

 

[beautress]

Abortion is not mentioned in the bible, other than instructions to induce one if a husband suspects his wife of infedelity. Abortion was practiced at that time, but not mentioned.

I'm afraid you are mistaken.