Why the war in Ukraine is important to the West (long post)

[toomuchtime_]

The bottom line, Putin took Crimea during the Obama-Biden administration. Putin took nothing during the Trump administration nor did Putin align with Communist China. Nor was Iran selling arms to Putin.

Whine all you want, some day maybe you'll face facts.

Unless you can point to things Trump said or did to prevent another invasion or to prevent the "alliance" between Russia and China, there is no reason to think Trump had an effect on these things than he had on the weather while he was in office. Can we blame Trump for the pandemic since that happened while he was in office?

 

[zaangalewa]

Yeah, terrible President Trump forced members of NATO to cough up and honor their financial obligations to the organization for the first time. MEAN MAN! ...

"A big roof over the USA and ready is the greatest psychiatric hospital of the world" is the only thing I will say any longer to this weird fake-problem of absolutelly real US-American superidiots. Very very very supershort: How much money will you not have to pay to your army when Germany is doing what exactly?
(1) If we will pay only 50% any longer for our army => your army costs will grow because you have to compensate this.
(2) If we will pay 200% for our army => your army costs will grow because Germany could become a danger for the USA.

But anyway showed Donald Trump with his not existing fear to speak out stupid nonsense only one thing: He had learned from Adolf Hitler that political proganda is not able to be stupid enough because it always exist enough idiots who believe every nonsense as long as it is a pathetic patriotic nonsense. How it had been possible that this man got more than one vote this I will never understand.

 

[zaangalewa]

Unless you can point to things Trump said or did to prevent another invasion or to prevent the "alliance" between Russia and China, there is no reason to think Trump had an effect on these things than he had on the weather while he was in office. Can we blame Trump for the pandemic since that happened while he was in office?

You lost more people because of Covid-19 than you lost in all of your wars while Donald Trump was in the US-American office in the Andromeda galaxy. We all had been saved in the (still not really existing) end from vaccinations and by mutations of this virus - while many citizens of the USA had nothing else to do than to fight against each other instead to fight this damned virus and to win enough time.

 

[Foxfyre]

After reading so many posts on here, especially from Russian shills, I am encouraged to finally make this posting. After some pondering before producing this post, my thesis is an impulsive instinct that the West should replicate Reagans approach to avoiding war: proxy support is better than direct combat where possible.

It is how the U.S crippled Russias economy when Russia attacked Afghanistan and left after years. The difference today is that Russia has a huge ally which the West helped enrich. This complicates matters greatly, another conundrum.

Most of us understand history, some of us lived through the 80s. We probably more appreciate what the world might look like if Russia wins in Ukraine. I provide the map to illustrate what is at stake and probably the existence that Russia inspires to return to. Here are former nations of Russia that are not today, but which would all be threatened if Russia takes Ukraine: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.

Now, we also see Hungary, Poland and other European nations once heavily influenced by Russia could also fall. From there it's not much of a leap to see how an attack by Russia and their allies could spread to Western Europe. Look at the map, these are all small distances.

I understand that Americans in particular are asking themselves "why are we spending billions in the Ukraine when we have so many issues at home"? It's one reason I hate government waste in Canada, it hurts us when times of emergency. The war in Ukraine is an emergency.

The billions the West is spending now pales in comparisons to the many TRILLIONS in economic benefit that would be lost if Russia keeps expanding. Not to mention the lost lives and risk to our own security over time. These are high stakes no doubt and as imperfect as Ukraine is, they are dying for their freedom.

If Obamas admin had been more firm, Russia and others probably wouldn't have expanded. They underestimated Bidens will, but, they still have the upper hand and a Big Brother. Now that Ukrainians have shown the will to fight and inclination to fight in order to remain sovereign and free, the world is obligated to to help. Morally and otherwise.

Europe must be more valiant and conspicuous. More subdued in their support in some instances, more profound and direct in others.. Germany in particular if they value their own mortality. On this I definitely agree with Americans.

Demand accountability of money spent, but also respect what is at stake. It may be far more than we comprehend.




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Which is why we need the vision and political skills of a Donald Trump in the White House. One of Trump's primary platforms was no more senseless wars. And if anybody forces the U.S. into war, we will use overwhelming force to end it quickly and leave.

And because those who might choose to be our enemies believed him, knew he wouldn't fight a "P.C." war but would annihilate them, North Korea stopped flying provocative missiles over South Korea and Japan, the war in Syria ended quietly, Russia, China, Iran all stopped saber rattling, three Arab nations made peace and opened trade and diplomatic relations with Israel and we had the closest thing to peace in our time as I have experienced.

All that is now reversed under Biden, we are again sending troops and mega billions we don't have to support the Ukraine in war, China threatens Taiwan, North Korea is again firing missiles over its adversaries and threatening the U.S., Iran is increasingly militant, and some of our former Arab allies are forming provocative alliances with China and China and Russia are forming an alliance that could be dangerous for the world. We are closer to WWIII than we have been since the Cuban missile crisis.

That is the difference between the peace through strength policies of the Trump administration vs the incompetence and weakness of the Biden administration.

 

[Markle]

Unless you can point to things Trump said or did to prevent another invasion or to prevent the "alliance" between Russia and China, there is no reason to think Trump had an effect on these things than he had on the weather while he was in office. Can we blame Trump for the pandemic since that happened while he was in office?

 

[Ringo]

The Japanese publication Shūkan Gendai is at the root, pointing out that Ze's fate could be unenviable.
"Because of his close ties with the U.S., Zelensky could repeat the fate of Osama bin Laden, whom the U.S. also supported during the war in Afghanistan..."