Why the US will never save Afghanistan

[High_Gravity]

The Unwinnable War

Out at the Kabul military training Center, on a barren hilltop, Colonel Fazl Karim is giving a new batch of recruits his usual pep talk. It's two weeks before these soldiers are commissioned as regulars in the Afghan National Army, and in some ways they look ready to go: they sit cross-legged in the dirt, all aligned in neat rows. Construction crews build more barracks nearby; 100,000 more recruits are expected to go through the U.S.-built training center in the next three years. If everything goes as planned, some 352,000 men will be ready to defend this country the day the mostly American army of foreign fighters packs up and leaves. "You are all going to die one day!" shouts Karim. "You might as well die protecting your country!"

A few men stifle yawns. Others poke their snoozing companions awake. Even the American officers overseeing all the training are skeptical. Taliban infiltration, drug use and desertion are commonplace among the men who arrive here. Troop quality is poor; recruiters can't be too selective when they have such large quotas to fill. For U.S. Army Captain Jason Reed, who is part of the training mission, it's just a matter of time. A long time. "As long as training continues when we leave, there is no reason to think that Afghanistan can't continue to grow a professional army," he says. "But it's going to take generations."

The government of Afghanistan and its American patrons do not have generations to make the country work. Afghans are supposed to take responsibility for their own security on Dec. 31, 2014, 38 months from now. But 10 years after the U.S. invaded this long-suffering country and then settled in for a long occupation, Afghanistan is nowhere close to being able to stand on its own — militarily, economically or even politically. To many, it has become an expensive misadventure. Meanwhile, the U.S. keeps broadcasting its intention to leave, not so much withdrawing as recoiling from a problem it seemingly no longer has the will or the ability to solve.

The prospect is frightening: Afghanistan today has the potential to be even more destabilizing for the region and the world than it was under the Taliban. Lawlessness has become the rule, so much so that many Afghans have grown nostalgic for the cold but effective dicta of Mullah Mohammed Omar's theocracy. Osama bin Laden may be dead and his fraying al-Qaeda network dispersed to other lands, but when the Americans leave, the country could easily revert to the failed narcostate and terrorist training ground that it once was. That alone would be a potent propaganda victory for America's foes. And it would risk unleashing another proxy war as rival militias, backed by regional allies, re-enact the civil war that saw the rise of the Taliban in the first place. Such a conflagration could pull nuclear-armed rivals Pakistan and India to the brink.

American patience for an alternative scenario is nearly tapped out. Over the course of 10 years, the U.S. has lost 1,786 service members and 763 private contractors there. An additional 14,342 service members have been wounded. The U.S. established over 180 forward operating bases around the country, deployed more than 9,000 mine-resistant vehicles and spent a total of $444 billion in the past decade on securing and rebuilding the nation — and attending to the damage the war caused to its troops when they returned home. America's best strategists and military minds and nation builders and engineers were set to work on one of the largest country-building efforts since the Marshall Plan. And it simply hasn't worked.

Even now, 10 years after the 2001 invasion, security is at one of its low points. The U.S. embassy in Kabul suffered through a prolonged siege last month. High-profile assassinations have picked off the top tier of government and security officers, including a former President tasked with leading peace negotiations with the Taliban leadership. Even as NATO statistics point to a 2% reduction in enemy attacks, the U.N. holds that 2011 is on track to be the most violent since the invasion for Afghan civilians.

American officials, first in the George W. Bush era and now under Barack Obama, confidently maintain that economic and security conditions in the country are improving, little by little. But the evidence for that claim is scant, and the deadline for U.S. withdrawal gets closer each day. In many ways, the withdrawal has already begun.

Read more: Why the U.S. Will Never Save Afghanistan - TIME

 

[Katzndogz]

Afghanistan doesn't want to be saved.

 

[Sallow]

Time to leave.

 

[JStone]

Time to leave.

Time for the Muslimes to leave and repopulate Afghanistan with nice Buddhists who inhabited Afghanistan before the Muslimes.

 

[LAfrique]

The Unwinnable War

Out at the Kabul military training Center, on a barren hilltop, Colonel Fazl Karim is giving a new batch of recruits his usual pep talk. It's two weeks before these soldiers are commissioned as regulars in the Afghan National Army, and in some ways they look ready to go: they sit cross-legged in the dirt, all aligned in neat rows. Construction crews build more barracks nearby; 100,000 more recruits are expected to go through the U.S.-built training center in the next three years. If everything goes as planned, some 352,000 men will be ready to defend this country the day the mostly American army of foreign fighters packs up and leaves. "You are all going to die one day!" shouts Karim. "You might as well die protecting your country!"

A few men stifle yawns. Others poke their snoozing companions awake. Even the American officers overseeing all the training are skeptical. Taliban infiltration, drug use and desertion are commonplace among the men who arrive here. Troop quality is poor; recruiters can't be too selective when they have such large quotas to fill. For U.S. Army Captain Jason Reed, who is part of the training mission, it's just a matter of time. A long time. "As long as training continues when we leave, there is no reason to think that Afghanistan can't continue to grow a professional army," he says. "But it's going to take generations."

The government of Afghanistan and its American patrons do not have generations to make the country work. Afghans are supposed to take responsibility for their own security on Dec. 31, 2014, 38 months from now. But 10 years after the U.S. invaded this long-suffering country and then settled in for a long occupation, Afghanistan is nowhere close to being able to stand on its own — militarily, economically or even politically. To many, it has become an expensive misadventure. Meanwhile, the U.S. keeps broadcasting its intention to leave, not so much withdrawing as recoiling from a problem it seemingly no longer has the will or the ability to solve.

The prospect is frightening: Afghanistan today has the potential to be even more destabilizing for the region and the world than it was under the Taliban. Lawlessness has become the rule, so much so that many Afghans have grown nostalgic for the cold but effective dicta of Mullah Mohammed Omar's theocracy. Osama bin Laden may be dead and his fraying al-Qaeda network dispersed to other lands, but when the Americans leave, the country could easily revert to the failed narcostate and terrorist training ground that it once was. That alone would be a potent propaganda victory for America's foes. And it would risk unleashing another proxy war as rival militias, backed by regional allies, re-enact the civil war that saw the rise of the Taliban in the first place. Such a conflagration could pull nuclear-armed rivals Pakistan and India to the brink.

American patience for an alternative scenario is nearly tapped out. Over the course of 10 years, the U.S. has lost 1,786 service members and 763 private contractors there. An additional 14,342 service members have been wounded. The U.S. established over 180 forward operating bases around the country, deployed more than 9,000 mine-resistant vehicles and spent a total of $444 billion in the past decade on securing and rebuilding the nation — and attending to the damage the war caused to its troops when they returned home. America's best strategists and military minds and nation builders and engineers were set to work on one of the largest country-building efforts since the Marshall Plan. And it simply hasn't worked.

Even now, 10 years after the 2001 invasion, security is at one of its low points. The U.S. embassy in Kabul suffered through a prolonged siege last month. High-profile assassinations have picked off the top tier of government and security officers, including a former President tasked with leading peace negotiations with the Taliban leadership. Even as NATO statistics point to a 2% reduction in enemy attacks, the U.N. holds that 2011 is on track to be the most violent since the invasion for Afghan civilians.

American officials, first in the George W. Bush era and now under Barack Obama, confidently maintain that economic and security conditions in the country are improving, little by little. But the evidence for that claim is scant, and the deadline for U.S. withdrawal gets closer each day. In many ways, the withdrawal has already begun.

Read more: Why the U.S. Will Never Save Afghanistan - TIME

The most urgent things Afghanistan needs saving from are the US and its NATO brotherhood gang.

 

[High_Gravity]

The Unwinnable War

Out at the Kabul military training Center, on a barren hilltop, Colonel Fazl Karim is giving a new batch of recruits his usual pep talk. It's two weeks before these soldiers are commissioned as regulars in the Afghan National Army, and in some ways they look ready to go: they sit cross-legged in the dirt, all aligned in neat rows. Construction crews build more barracks nearby; 100,000 more recruits are expected to go through the U.S.-built training center in the next three years. If everything goes as planned, some 352,000 men will be ready to defend this country the day the mostly American army of foreign fighters packs up and leaves. "You are all going to die one day!" shouts Karim. "You might as well die protecting your country!"

A few men stifle yawns. Others poke their snoozing companions awake. Even the American officers overseeing all the training are skeptical. Taliban infiltration, drug use and desertion are commonplace among the men who arrive here. Troop quality is poor; recruiters can't be too selective when they have such large quotas to fill. For U.S. Army Captain Jason Reed, who is part of the training mission, it's just a matter of time. A long time. "As long as training continues when we leave, there is no reason to think that Afghanistan can't continue to grow a professional army," he says. "But it's going to take generations."

The government of Afghanistan and its American patrons do not have generations to make the country work. Afghans are supposed to take responsibility for their own security on Dec. 31, 2014, 38 months from now. But 10 years after the U.S. invaded this long-suffering country and then settled in for a long occupation, Afghanistan is nowhere close to being able to stand on its own — militarily, economically or even politically. To many, it has become an expensive misadventure. Meanwhile, the U.S. keeps broadcasting its intention to leave, not so much withdrawing as recoiling from a problem it seemingly no longer has the will or the ability to solve.

The prospect is frightening: Afghanistan today has the potential to be even more destabilizing for the region and the world than it was under the Taliban. Lawlessness has become the rule, so much so that many Afghans have grown nostalgic for the cold but effective dicta of Mullah Mohammed Omar's theocracy. Osama bin Laden may be dead and his fraying al-Qaeda network dispersed to other lands, but when the Americans leave, the country could easily revert to the failed narcostate and terrorist training ground that it once was. That alone would be a potent propaganda victory for America's foes. And it would risk unleashing another proxy war as rival militias, backed by regional allies, re-enact the civil war that saw the rise of the Taliban in the first place. Such a conflagration could pull nuclear-armed rivals Pakistan and India to the brink.

American patience for an alternative scenario is nearly tapped out. Over the course of 10 years, the U.S. has lost 1,786 service members and 763 private contractors there. An additional 14,342 service members have been wounded. The U.S. established over 180 forward operating bases around the country, deployed more than 9,000 mine-resistant vehicles and spent a total of $444 billion in the past decade on securing and rebuilding the nation — and attending to the damage the war caused to its troops when they returned home. America's best strategists and military minds and nation builders and engineers were set to work on one of the largest country-building efforts since the Marshall Plan. And it simply hasn't worked.

Even now, 10 years after the 2001 invasion, security is at one of its low points. The U.S. embassy in Kabul suffered through a prolonged siege last month. High-profile assassinations have picked off the top tier of government and security officers, including a former President tasked with leading peace negotiations with the Taliban leadership. Even as NATO statistics point to a 2% reduction in enemy attacks, the U.N. holds that 2011 is on track to be the most violent since the invasion for Afghan civilians.

American officials, first in the George W. Bush era and now under Barack Obama, confidently maintain that economic and security conditions in the country are improving, little by little. But the evidence for that claim is scant, and the deadline for U.S. withdrawal gets closer each day. In many ways, the withdrawal has already begun.

Read more: Why the U.S. Will Never Save Afghanistan - TIME

The most urgent things Afghanistan needs saving from are the US and its NATO brotherhood gang.

Go fuck yourself Lafrique, NATO and the US will be gone soon and than the people of Afghanistan will get butt raped by the Taliban.

 

[zzzz]

The Russians were there 9 years and accomplished nothing but filling body bags. History is littered with failed campaigns to conquer and hold this territory.

When we leave it will fall back into the quagmire it was before. To change it it you need to occupy it for generations, 30 or 40 years, and change the mind set of the youth. This is what has happened to the Arab world, the young are being taught hate and it has laid the groundwork for a century of religious warfare. we are only at the beginning stages of this war and as the young people get older and push out the elders the Middle East will become an inferno of hate. Beware.

 

[California Girl]

Did we go there to 'save' Afghanistan? No. We went to protect America.

 

[High_Gravity]

The Russians were there 9 years and accomplished nothing but filling body bags. History is littered with failed campaigns to conquer and hold this territory.

When we leave it will fall back into the quagmire it was before. To change it it you need to occupy it for generations, 30 or 40 years, and change the mind set of the youth. This is what has happened to the Arab world, the young are being taught hate and it has laid the groundwork for a century of religious warfare. we are only at the beginning stages of this war and as the young people get older and push out the elders the Middle East will become an inferno of hate. Beware.

I think we over commited ourselves to Afghanistan, I know at the beginning of this we made all kinds of promises of democracy, to rebuild their country, let their women go to school etc etc but perhaps this was all a little too enthusiastic, it doesn't seem like too many of the Afghan people want these things or we wouldn't be facing so much resistance, we have been in that country for 10 years and most of the people outside the major cities still live in mud huts with no running water and eletricity and they seem content in that fact. We should have just focused on removing the threat from Afghanistan and leave the rebuilding stuff alone, the people there don't seem interested in our help and don't want it. They want to live in a 8th century world dominated by the Quran, and if thats what they really want than they should have it, but only as long as they are threat to themselves and nobody else.

 

[High_Gravity]

Did we go there to 'save' Afghanistan? No. We went to protect America.

You are definently spot on that we initially went into Afghanistan for our own interests CG however our mission in Afghanistan has changed several times since October 2001 when we initially went in, at first it was to topple the Taliban, kill or capture Bin Laden and close down the Al Qaeda training camps in the country, than we got ourselves into the rebuilding business of bringing demoracy to the country, rebuilding their schools, infrastructure etc, than it was to try and stop the flow of drugs coming from inside the country which is at some of the highest levels ever seen, and now I am hearing that our main focus is rebuilding their Military and police to the Afghans can continue the fight on their own after we leave, the mission in Afghanistan has definently been morphed and changed over time.

 

[zzzz]

Since 2000 there is only one war we should have fought and that was the initial attack on Afghanistan. The attack on the US was initiated and trained for in the terrorist camps under the umbrella of Taliban protection. The focus was to destroy the camps and terrorists and topple the Taliban. We did everything we could do in the first three months. Mission accomplished.

Should have gotten out. 10 years later ... nothing much has changed except a lot of dead and maimed American troops coming home. For what? To protect America from Terrorists? They all fled to Pakistan, Oman, and Sudan after the invasion.

This illustrates the problem with committing troops ... getting out! Political leaders have a problem withdrawing troops after a successful assault. They are fearful of leaving a vacuum in the country, just like the Soviets left when they abandoned Afghanistan. We are finally getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan but at what cost? We have destroyed our economy and a generation of young men and women have to live with the horror of war for the rest of their lives and children have lost their parents to guide them.

 

[High_Gravity]

Since 2000 there is only one war we should have fought and that was the initial attack on Afghanistan. The attack on the US was initiated and trained for in the terrorist camps under the umbrella of Taliban protection. The focus was to destroy the camps and terrorists and topple the Taliban. We did everything we could do in the first three months. Mission accomplished.

Should have gotten out. 10 years later ... nothing much has changed except a lot of dead and maimed American troops coming home. For what? To protect America from Terrorists? They all fled to Pakistan, Oman, and Sudan after the invasion.

This illustrates the problem with committing troops ... getting out! Political leaders have a problem withdrawing troops after a successful assault. They are fearful of leaving a vacuum in the country, just like the Soviets left when they abandoned Afghanistan. We are finally getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan but at what cost? We have destroyed our economy and a generation of young men and women have to live with the horror of war for the rest of their lives and children have lost their parents to guide them.

I don't think "just getting out" would have done any good either, if we left after the first 3 months the Taliban and Al Qaeda would have simply just came back, most of them retreated during the initial assault to Pakistan anyways. I don't have all the answers my friend, but I don't think just packing up and leaving after the first 3 months would have been a good idea because they would just come back and re-open the training camps.

 

[Flopper]

We went into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. We got him and it's time to get out.

 

[High_Gravity]

We went into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. We got him and it's time to get out.

That was the initial reason for going in yes but the war in Afghanistan stopped being about Bin Laden years ago, we have adopted the rebuilding model in Afghanistan now, plus Bin Laden was not even in Afghanistan.

 

[LAfrique]

Imperialists never invade nations with resources they covert with intention of leaving; unless, of course, forced out by the natives.

 

[High_Gravity]

Imperialists never invade nations with resources they covert with intention of leaving; unless, of course, forced out by the natives.

Stick a dick in your mouth Lafreak and shut the fuck up.

 

[zonly1]

It can't be saved based on the tribal conditions, third world development, and just plain isolated ignorance. I say ignorance because many tribal communities can't even read their own language. It's by design to control the region that way. There's no motivation for the people in power to give independence to the poor tribal communities.

I maybe wrong but after talking to several soldier who have been through the tour episodes this is there general description(s).

 

[editec]

Heroin addicts the world over are praying that the Taliban doesn't take back Afghanistan.

 

[High_Gravity]

Heroin addicts the world over are praying that the Taliban doesn't take back Afghanistan.

The Taliban deals in the heroin trade now so nothing much will change even if they do, exports might actually go up without US Troops on the ground.

 

[Douger]

Heroin addicts the world over are praying that the Taliban doesn't take back Afghanistan.

The Taliban deals in the heroin trade now so nothing much will change even if they do, exports might actually go up without US Troops on the ground.

Keep tripping.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_54LJMwG4E]Opium fields guarded by U.S. troops in Afghanistan - YouTube[/ame]