Why I believe the Liberal approach is not a good approach.

[nitroz]

Well, the liberals do carry out their job by defending the rights of everyone, but they also cross the line by pissing away the taxes that we pay for rights that people don't even have.

Now I'm going to be very disorganized and I could possibly be wrong, so don't take my word for it.

Religion and Liberalism: While freedom of Religion is in the constitution, Liberals should only address the manner if any government is denying anyone these rights due to religious reasons. Other than that, LEAVE THAT TOPIC ALONE!!! (Looks at Liberals defending Islam) They get equal rights as it is. Other citizens also have the right to be against certain religions.


Immigration and Liberalism: Liberals only have the right to fight for LEGAL immigrant's rights.
If a liberal tries to give an illegal immigrant any other right than due process, then he should be impeached, fired from his position, forced to pay back all tax dollars wasted, and be severely fined. Illegal Immigrants are entitled the right to due process by stepping foot on this country due to the constitution. Illegals don't deserve any other rights because they are *ILLEGAL* THEY DON'T PAY TAXES! THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY! AND THEY DEMAND RIGHTS WHEN THEY FUCK US OVER BY WASTING TAX MONEY, SMUGGLE DRUGS INTO THIS COUNTRY, AND CUT IN LINE BEFORE THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO BECOME CITIZENS THE *LEGAL* WAY!




Thats all I have to say.... for now.
Political parties should be my next subject.

 

[Avatar4321]

Actually, I think they do a rather crappy job in defending anyone's rights.

 

[ladyliberal]

Well, the liberals do carry out their job by defending the rights of everyone, but they also cross the line by pissing away the taxes that we pay for rights that people don't even have.

Now I'm going to be very disorganized and I could possibly be wrong, so don't take my word for it.

Religion and Liberalism: While freedom of Religion is in the constitution, Liberals should only address the manner if any government is denying anyone these rights due to religious reasons. Other than that, LEAVE THAT TOPIC ALONE!!! (Looks at Liberals defending Islam) They get equal rights as it is. Other citizens also have the right to be against certain religions.


Immigration and Liberalism: Liberals only have the right to fight for LEGAL immigrant's rights.
If a liberal tries to give an illegal immigrant any other right than due process, then he should be impeached, fired from his position, forced to pay back all tax dollars wasted, and be severely fined. Illegal Immigrants are entitled the right to due process by stepping foot on this country due to the constitution. Illegals don't deserve any other rights because they are *ILLEGAL* THEY DON'T PAY TAXES! THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY! AND THEY DEMAND RIGHTS WHEN THEY FUCK US OVER BY WASTING TAX MONEY, SMUGGLE DRUGS INTO THIS COUNTRY, AND CUT IN LINE BEFORE THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO BECOME CITIZENS THE *LEGAL* WAY!




Thats all I have to say.... for now.
Political parties should be my next subject.

If you're referring to moral rights, then you're certainly entitled to your opinions, although I largely disagree with them. If you're speaking of Constitutional rights...

Of course people have the right to oppose religions they don't like, they just don't have a right to apply state actions against them. If they did, the government could ban all religion. Also, the typical religious position is to defend the right to practice Islam, not to defend Islam itself. Liberals often have mixed feelings about any organized religion.

Regarding immigrant rights, even undocumented persons within US jurisdiction are entitled to most of the rights of citizens, not just due process. The Bill of Rights and other applicable parts of the Constitution are framed as restrictions on government power not as rights of citizens, and so citizenship doesn't play a central role. Of course, in practice undocumented people can have practice asserting their rights. For example, many undocumented people have declined to lobby for immigration reform (their right under the 1st amendment) because they fear deportation if they call attention to themselves.
Also, illegal immigrants do pay many taxes, as Newt Gingrich recently pointed out, though often not all that they are legally required to pay.

 

[Texanmike]

The reality is that in general both conservatism and liberalism today are fundamentally flawed. Both attempt to share key components of a free society. Generally speaking, Liberalism (or the bastardized version we have today) seeks to share the consequences of behavior. Conservatism (or the bastardized version we have today) seeks to share the regulation of behavior with society.

Neither solution works long term because if I must assume no risk for my behavior (ie I am able to pass on the risk on to society if I make a bad decision) I will inevitably make decisions that burden society (the tax payer in many cases...). The other side of the equation is the regulation of behavior. The conservatives seek to preach individual responsibility but not reward it with unregulated behavior.

The real solution lies somewhere in the middle and is different for different people. THIS is the basis for the States Rights. If you were to put this on a sliding scale, there is no reason to move the entire nation to one place or the other. Let each state select their own individual place on these scales and give every person in the US the opportunity to pick one of 50 flavors of liberty.

The BIGGEST problem is the national agenda. Why would we make Florida operate under the same set of rules as Washington? Why do we try to regulate things like drug use/marriage/welfare/healthcare nationally. Let 50 states do 50 different things and hey, if it is working for one state, let the other states copy the program.

Mike

 

[LilOlLady]

Well, the liberals do carry out their job by defending the rights of everyone, but they also cross the line by pissing away the taxes that we pay for rights that people don't even have.

Now I'm going to be very disorganized and I could possibly be wrong, so don't take my word for it.

Religion and Liberalism: While freedom of Religion is in the constitution, Liberals should only address the manner if any government is denying anyone these rights due to religious reasons. Other than that, LEAVE THAT TOPIC ALONE!!! (Looks at Liberals defending Islam) They get equal rights as it is. Other citizens also have the right to be against certain religions.


Immigration and Liberalism: Liberals only have the right to fight for LEGAL immigrant's rights.
If a liberal tries to give an illegal immigrant any other right than due process, then he should be impeached, fired from his position, forced to pay back all tax dollars wasted, and be severely fined. Illegal Immigrants are entitled the right to due process by stepping foot on this country due to the constitution. Illegals don't deserve any other rights because they are *ILLEGAL* THEY DON'T PAY TAXES! THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY! AND THEY DEMAND RIGHTS WHEN THEY FUCK US OVER BY WASTING TAX MONEY, SMUGGLE DRUGS INTO THIS COUNTRY, AND CUT IN LINE BEFORE THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO BECOME CITIZENS THE *LEGAL* WAY!




Thats all I have to say.... for now.
Political parties should be my next subject.

OMG when right wing soft bellies fuck up they blame the illegals aliens. Ilegals do pay taxes, social seurity, etc which you collect on. Talk about wasting tax money, were you sleep the 8 years Bush was ruining the country by spending money we did not have and borowing from any country that would lend us.
You haven't said anything worth listening to yet that make any sense.

 

[Texanmike]

Well, the liberals do carry out their job by defending the rights of everyone, but they also cross the line by pissing away the taxes that we pay for rights that people don't even have.

Now I'm going to be very disorganized and I could possibly be wrong, so don't take my word for it.

Religion and Liberalism: While freedom of Religion is in the constitution, Liberals should only address the manner if any government is denying anyone these rights due to religious reasons. Other than that, LEAVE THAT TOPIC ALONE!!! (Looks at Liberals defending Islam) They get equal rights as it is. Other citizens also have the right to be against certain religions.


Immigration and Liberalism: Liberals only have the right to fight for LEGAL immigrant's rights.
If a liberal tries to give an illegal immigrant any other right than due process, then he should be impeached, fired from his position, forced to pay back all tax dollars wasted, and be severely fined. Illegal Immigrants are entitled the right to due process by stepping foot on this country due to the constitution. Illegals don't deserve any other rights because they are *ILLEGAL* THEY DON'T PAY TAXES! THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY! AND THEY DEMAND RIGHTS WHEN THEY FUCK US OVER BY WASTING TAX MONEY, SMUGGLE DRUGS INTO THIS COUNTRY, AND CUT IN LINE BEFORE THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO BECOME CITIZENS THE *LEGAL* WAY!




Thats all I have to say.... for now.
Political parties should be my next subject.

OMG when right wing soft bellies fuck up they blame the illegals aliens. Ilegals do pay taxes, social seurity, etc which you collect on. Talk about wasting tax money, were you sleep the 8 years Bush was ruining the country by spending money we did not have and borowing from any country that would lend us.
You haven't said anything worth listening to yet that make any sense.

Actually the biggest problem with liberals and conservatives is that they are slaves to the respective parties. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a conservative rail on Obama for something that they would have praised Bush for, I'd be a millionaire. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a liberal rail on something for Bush that they would praise Obama for, I'd be a millionaire.

Mike

 

[Trakar]

The reality is that in general both conservatism and liberalism today are fundamentally flawed...

I concur fully!

Not that my own ideologies are without flaw, but rather, in that they don't get the chance to be bastardized by either face of our current corporatist political system, my ideology's flaws remain more hypothetical than realized.

I am a progressive republican in the modern continuation of the ideals and beliefs expressed by the likes of Teddy Roosevelt, Lincoln and Eisenhower.

 

[Texanmike]

The reality is that in general both conservatism and liberalism today are fundamentally flawed...

I concur fully!

Not that my own ideologies are without flaw, but rather, in that they don't get the chance to be bastardized by either face of our current corporatist political system, my ideology's flaws remain more hypothetical than realized.

I am a progressive republican in the modern continuation of the ideals and beliefs expressed by the likes of Teddy Roosevelt, Lincoln and Eisenhower.

Well I believe Lincoln was the worst president of all time, so we might not agree politically. The thing is, I'm conservative in my life. Very traditional values, yes sir/ma'am to just about everyone, I don't drink (its been over a year since I've had anything alcoholic and probably 2 or 3 years before that), no drugs, go to church etc etc etc. That said, I have no inclination to force that on others. Of course I don't want crack heads (though I do support the federal de-criminalization of all substances) in my neighborhood and would vote locally for criminalization I respect others right to have their own version of freedom, even if it is different from mine.

I borrow the behavioral freedom from the left and the individual responsibility from the right. I can't call myself a centrist though because I don't want moderation, I want extremes from both sides therefore I call my self a north/south kind of guy. I'm off of the political spectrum really. (Libertarian is close).

(And for the record, the reason I consider Lincoln the worst POTUS of all time is because of the civil war. I believe that states can leave the union and the war all but sealed the states to lose their rights. Even the founders talked about how the threat of dissolving the union would protect the individual states rights. Mason and John Taylor in particular.)

Mike

 

[Trakar]

The reality is that in general both conservatism and liberalism today are fundamentally flawed...

I concur fully!

Not that my own ideologies are without flaw, but rather, in that they don't get the chance to be bastardized by either face of our current corporatist political system, my ideology's flaws remain more hypothetical than realized.

I am a progressive republican in the modern continuation of the ideals and beliefs expressed by the likes of Teddy Roosevelt, Lincoln and Eisenhower.

Well I believe Lincoln was the worst president of all time, so we might not agree politically. The thing is, I'm conservative in my life. Very traditional values, yes sir/ma'am to just about everyone, I don't drink (its been over a year since I've had anything alcoholic and probably 2 or 3 years before that), no drugs, go to church etc etc etc. That said, I have no inclination to force that on others. Of course I don't want crack heads (though I do support the federal de-criminalization of all substances) in my neighborhood and would vote locally for criminalization I respect others right to have their own version of freedom, even if it is different from mine.

I borrow the behavioral freedom from the left and the individual responsibility from the right. I can't call myself a centrist though because I don't want moderation, I want extremes from both sides therefore I call my self a north/south kind of guy. I'm off of the political spectrum really. (Libertarian is close).

(And for the record, the reason I consider Lincoln the worst POTUS of all time is because of the civil war. I believe that states can leave the union and the war all but sealed the states to lose their rights. Even the founders talked about how the threat of dissolving the union would protect the individual states rights. Mason and John Taylor in particular.)

Mike

Agreeing isn't as important as the manner of our disagreeing. So long as a respectful consideration is given to each man's individuality and strong laws enacted to keep the tip of your fist from infringing upon the boundaries outlined by my nose, and vice versa, I've no problem with honest differences of opinions and consideration.

I can understand the attraction to libertarianism, in the glorification of the individual, but I fully feel that the only way individual liberties and rights can be protected and guaranteed is through regulation and oversight. Likewise I feel little compunction about fair taxation to not just provide a level playing field but also to (so to speak) constantly build upon and improve the stadium so that all may enjoy a rising tide of improving fortune (that is the nature of progressivism WordNet Search - 3.1) The founding fathers were as split on "states rights" as we undoubtably are. I doubt the actual utility of state governments and see them more as a waste of money and unnecessary bureaucratic complication rather than anything that much serves a truely useful purpose in modern society, but that is my personal impression and not anything inherent to the ideologies I pay service to.

I'm Catholic of very traditional rearing and manners, and spent the better part of my adult life in the military, but that is largely irrelevent to my political considerations. I've no problem with an occassional drink or smoke, though they are pretty far down on my list of priorities or pleasures. I smoked cigarettes for about 27 years but set them down a long time ago without looking back. I don't care about anyone's bad habits as long as they involve consensual adult participation and don't directly involve me paying for their fun and choices. But again, to me, these are not issues of politics but of personal responsibility and individual right. I'm sure there are lots of areas were we agree and many more where we disagree, but to me, it is more important how we do each of these things than that we agree or disagree on any particular issue.

 

[nitroz]

Well, the liberals do carry out their job by defending the rights of everyone, but they also cross the line by pissing away the taxes that we pay for rights that people don't even have.

Now I'm going to be very disorganized and I could possibly be wrong, so don't take my word for it.

Religion and Liberalism: While freedom of Religion is in the constitution, Liberals should only address the manner if any government is denying anyone these rights due to religious reasons. Other than that, LEAVE THAT TOPIC ALONE!!! (Looks at Liberals defending Islam) They get equal rights as it is. Other citizens also have the right to be against certain religions.


Immigration and Liberalism: Liberals only have the right to fight for LEGAL immigrant's rights.
If a liberal tries to give an illegal immigrant any other right than due process, then he should be impeached, fired from his position, forced to pay back all tax dollars wasted, and be severely fined. Illegal Immigrants are entitled the right to due process by stepping foot on this country due to the constitution. Illegals don't deserve any other rights because they are *ILLEGAL* THEY DON'T PAY TAXES! THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY! AND THEY DEMAND RIGHTS WHEN THEY FUCK US OVER BY WASTING TAX MONEY, SMUGGLE DRUGS INTO THIS COUNTRY, AND CUT IN LINE BEFORE THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO BECOME CITIZENS THE *LEGAL* WAY!




Thats all I have to say.... for now.
Political parties should be my next subject.

OMG when right wing soft bellies fuck up they blame the illegals aliens. Ilegals do pay taxes, social seurity, etc which you collect on. Talk about wasting tax money, were you sleep the 8 years Bush was ruining the country by spending money we did not have and borowing from any country that would lend us.
You haven't said anything worth listening to yet that make any sense.

Ha!
Yeah right!

 

[nitroz]

Well, the liberals do carry out their job by defending the rights of everyone, but they also cross the line by pissing away the taxes that we pay for rights that people don't even have.

Now I'm going to be very disorganized and I could possibly be wrong, so don't take my word for it.

Religion and Liberalism: While freedom of Religion is in the constitution, Liberals should only address the manner if any government is denying anyone these rights due to religious reasons. Other than that, LEAVE THAT TOPIC ALONE!!! (Looks at Liberals defending Islam) They get equal rights as it is. Other citizens also have the right to be against certain religions.


Immigration and Liberalism: Liberals only have the right to fight for LEGAL immigrant's rights.
If a liberal tries to give an illegal immigrant any other right than due process, then he should be impeached, fired from his position, forced to pay back all tax dollars wasted, and be severely fined. Illegal Immigrants are entitled the right to due process by stepping foot on this country due to the constitution. Illegals don't deserve any other rights because they are *ILLEGAL* THEY DON'T PAY TAXES! THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY! AND THEY DEMAND RIGHTS WHEN THEY FUCK US OVER BY WASTING TAX MONEY, SMUGGLE DRUGS INTO THIS COUNTRY, AND CUT IN LINE BEFORE THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO BECOME CITIZENS THE *LEGAL* WAY!




Thats all I have to say.... for now.
Political parties should be my next subject.

If you're referring to moral rights, then you're certainly entitled to your opinions, although I largely disagree with them. If you're speaking of Constitutional rights...

Of course people have the right to oppose religions they don't like, they just don't have a right to apply state actions against them. If they did, the government could ban all religion. Also, the typical religious position is to defend the right to practice Islam, not to defend Islam itself. Liberals often have mixed feelings about any organized religion.

Regarding immigrant rights, even undocumented persons within US jurisdiction are entitled to most of the rights of citizens, not just due process. The Bill of Rights and other applicable parts of the Constitution are framed as restrictions on government power not as rights of citizens, and so citizenship doesn't play a central role. Of course, in practice undocumented people can have practice asserting their rights. For example, many undocumented people have declined to lobby for immigration reform (their right under the 1st amendment) because they fear deportation if they call attention to themselves.
Also, illegal immigrants do pay many taxes, as Newt Gingrich recently pointed out, though often not all that they are legally required to pay.

I do agree.
There should be no way where any type of government in this country can deny anyone rights from religion. Even practicing their religion. Now if the government is giving them full rights, then leave the subject alone and tell them to tough it out.

Hmm. I must be uneducated on immigration then and need to catch up.
The thing is though, the key word is *illegal*. They shouldn't have to have mass demonstrations to fight deportation, they should get in line like everyone else thats trying to do it legally! If they want rights soo much, then have Mexico pay us billions of dollars cause we simply don't have the money to do so. I still stand firm behind how I think illegal immigration should be dealt with.