Why God is Unknowable Unless He Reveals Himself

[Blues Man]

But in the OT it was god seeking out humans to give his message to.

So why just pick a couple people to talk to?

Again, what if your beginning premise is not correct? God's call is for everyone. Why do only a couple of people seek to hear and to respond back?

god does not speak directly to everyone as he did to some people in the bible. God initiated those conversations with the men he spoke to I didn't see where those men were seeking to speak to God

In fact most people including many Christians would say a person who claims god is speaking directly to him might be crazy.

So why is it that people who say that God spoke to them thousands of years ago weren't considered crazy?

These are some of the reasons i find religion interesting.

 

[Blues Man]

God spoke directly to people as documented in the OT

Did they know God first?

I don't know.

They may have believed in god but belief and knowing are entirely different things.

 

[Meriweather]

god does not speak directly to everyone as he did to some people in the bible. God initiated those conversations with the men he spoke to I didn't see where those men were seeking to speak to God

In fact most people including many Christians would say a person who claims god is speaking directly to him might be crazy.

So why is it that people who say that God spoke to them thousands of years ago weren't considered crazy?

You begin with the premise that 'spoke' was a literal voice. If we know this, then our ancestors were also well aware of this. However, they were intelligent enough to understand the metaphor. I am betting you can find many people today who could tell you a story of a time God spoke to them without them hearing a single sound.

 

[Meriweather]

They may have believed in god but belief and knowing are entirely different things.

Yes. Belief (and non-belief) are much easier.

 

[Blues Man]

They may have believed in god but belief and knowing are entirely different things.

Yes. Belief (and non-belief) are much easier.

I prefer to know not merely believe.

 

[Meriweather]

I prefer to know not merely believe.

Then why don't you know?

 

[Blues Man]

I prefer to know not merely believe.

Then why don't you know?

I know I have no use for gods and that I wouldn't change the way i live even if there were proof that gods exist.

Like I said I don't think it matters how we got here. What matters is how we as conscious beings act for the short time we are here.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

The thing is there are millions of people who don't believe in your god that live what can be described as a righteous life.

According to the Bible, non-Christians will be judged at the "Great white throne judgment". Christians avoid that judgment by virtue of them being a follower of Christ. Non-believers will be required to pay for their sins but can thereafter reach Heaven and eternal life. Many others will be destroyed, meaning they will cease to exist, or at least that is my understanding. I don't believe that people go to Hell, which is a place that is currently empty of residents and which was created for Satan and his angels.

Mostly agree with this.

The wicked will become ASHES under the feet of the righteous.

 

[Meriweather]

I know I have no use for gods and that I wouldn't change the way i live even if there were proof that gods exist.

Like I said I don't think it matters how we got here. What matters is how we as conscious beings act for the short time we are here.

Same could be said about our parents.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Faith, believing in the unknown.

Not Faith when HE has revealed Himself to you

 

[watchingfromafar]

god does not speak directly to everyone as he did to some people in the bible. God initiated those conversations with the men he spoke to I didn't see where those men were seeking to speak to God

You are so right on with that.

God only spoke to His chosen.
(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

God gives His “Chosen” instructions on how to treat the “stranger”.
To be the example for others to follow​

(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow

(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Lev 19:34 KJV)  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

The term “stranger” is used 128 times in the KJV of the Old Testament;
The term “Stranger” is used nine (9) times above

can anyone here find the remaining 119 verses-?

God judged them then and is judging His chosen today in the year 2021ad.
What comes next remains to be seen

-

 

[Blues Man]

You are so right on with that.

God only spoke to His chosen.
(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

God gives His “Chosen” instructions on how to treat the “stranger”.
To be the example for others to follow​

(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow

(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Lev 19:34 KJV)  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

The term “stranger” is used 128 times in the KJV of the Old Testament;
The term “Stranger” is used nine (9) times above

can anyone here find the remaining 119 verses-?

God judged them then and is judging His chosen today in the year 2021ad.
What comes next remains to be seen

-

Why should anyone trust a person that says a god spoke to him ?

 

[Meriweather]

Why should anyone trust a person that says a god spoke to him ?

Put what someone told you God said in this framework:

God said, "Love your fellow man."
Donald Duck said, "Love your fellow man."

The second quote sounds pretty smart for a duck. If, instead of smart, it sounds like something a duck would say, probably best not to trust.

 

[Blues Man]

Put what someone told you God said in this framework:

God said, "Love your fellow man."
Donald Duck said, "Love your fellow man."

The second quote sounds pretty smart for a duck. If, instead of smart, it sounds like something a duck would say, probably best not to trust.

I don't have any reason to believe anyone actually has spoken to a god. If a person today said he personally talked to a god and was told something that clashed with your beliefs would you believe him sane?

And you make it sound like the idea of loving your fellow man was never heard of until some god whispered it in some person's ear thousands of years ago.

 

[Meriweather]

And you make it sound like the idea of loving your fellow man was never heard of until some god whispered it in some person's ear thousands of years ago.

People did love family, tribe; not all brought that love to outsiders.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't have any reason to believe anyone actually has spoken to a god. If a person today said he personally talked to a god and was told something that clashed with your beliefs would you believe him sane?

If someone came up to me and said a close friend or family member said such and such, it would be my own knowledge of that person where I could say definitively, "That person would have said no such thing," or nod, and say, "I can hear him/her say that myself."

Same with God. If someone who had never bothered with God said, "God told me...." then it is a matter of giving the words consideration. Would the God I know say such a thing?

 

[Blues Man]

People did love family, tribe; not all brought that love to outsiders.

And they still don't and guess what they never will.

That's the human condition

 

[Blues Man]

If someone came up to me and said a close friend or family member said such and such, it would be my own knowledge of that person where I could say definitively, "That person would have said no such thing," or nod, and say, "I can hear him/her say that myself."

Same with God. If someone who had never bothered with God said, "God told me...." then it is a matter of giving the words consideration. Would the God I know say such a thing?

How would you know the particular religious beliefs of a person?

Just because some religion teaches that thousands of years ago some random man got a message from a god I have no reason to believe that to be true.

 

[Meriweather]

Just because some religion teaches that thousands of years ago some random man got a message from a god I have no reason to believe that to be true.

And no wish to believe that it is true?

Our God is hidden. To find, one must seek. Many have no wish to be bothered.

 

[Blues Man]

And no wish to believe that it is true?

Our God is hidden. To find, one must seek. Many have no wish to be bothered.

What's the use of an all powerful god that hides from the very creations he is supposed to love?

And why didn't he hide from Moses or all those other people he allegedly spoke to?