Why do so many people deny climate change

[bripat9643]

I think that that answer qualifies as a no fucking idea to the question of what's next.

You obviously don't get it. Politicians are not going to decide what replaces fossil fuels. Some guy tinkering away in his garage or some small company led by a guy with big ideas is going to come up with it. No one knows who that is at the moment. If government gets too powerful and interferes too much in the market, it will never happen.

They way big problems get solved is by millions of individuals using their brains to solve their own problems. Government "solutions" only lead to more government and less prosperity for everyone.

The guy in his garage better get his ass in gear. The clock is ticking.

The government has many solutions to problems. So does business. After all both are run by liberals and that's what liberals so. Solve problems.

Wrong. Government creates problems. For every problem it "solves" it creates two more. In the process of "solving problems" it brutalizes the populace.

 

[Abraham3]

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

The house you're sitting in is as resistant to storm and wind because of government money spent developing those capabilities.

The car you're driving, the roads it drives on, the plane you took on your last trip, the electricity and gas that power your home have all been, at one point or another, the beneficiaries of government funded research or subsidization.

If business' true interest was in caring for your needs, it wouldn't be wasting everyone's money creating false ones. The government's job is to take care of those needs that business can't due to risk or won't due to cost.

If you want to see how well a nation works without a government, go visit Somalia.

And let's stop insulting each other.

 

[SSDD]

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

No, the computer I am typing on is the result of a couple of individuals pursuing a great idea in their garage. Government would have never willingly handed over this sort of power to the public. It was only their profound lack of foresight that allowed those two guys in the garage to fully realize their idea.

 

[Spiderman]

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

The computers used for the moon mission had less power than a digital watch. it was afterwards when private industry got involved in the computer chip business when we saw great leaps and bounds.

The house you're sitting in is as resistant to storm and wind because of government money spent developing those capabilities.

The government did not develop construction methods all it did was set minimum standards for buildings. The construction industry had to find a way to meet those standards in an efficient affordable manner.

The car you're driving, the roads it drives on, the plane you took on your last trip, the electricity and gas that power your home have all been, at one point or another, the beneficiaries of government funded research or subsidization.

It's not the government's job to provide for our needs.

If you want to see how well a nation works without a government, go visit Somalia.

And let's stop insulting each other.

Here we go again with the Somalia red herring.

Where has anyone here suggested we have no government?

 

[loa]

No, the computer I am typing on is the result of a couple of individuals pursuing a great idea in their garage. Government would have never willingly handed over this sort of power to the public. It was only their profound lack of foresight that allowed those two guys in the garage to fully realize their idea.

How about the internet you are conversing on? That's a direct result of some government funding and 'handing over' some technology.

Things are not nearly as black and white as some of the posts portray.


K.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

The house you're sitting in is as resistant to storm and wind because of government money spent developing those capabilities.

The car you're driving, the roads it drives on, the plane you took on your last trip, the electricity and gas that power your home have all been, at one point or another, the beneficiaries of government funded research or subsidization.

If business' true interest was in caring for your needs, it wouldn't be wasting everyone's money creating false ones. The government's job is to take care of those needs that business can't due to risk or won't due to cost.

If you want to see how well a nation works without a government, go visit Somalia.

And let's stop insulting each other.

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

If the government had built the computer I'm typing on, it would be larger than your house and would have cost millions of dollars.

If you want to see how well a nation works without a government, go visit Somalia.

If there were government regulations against strawmen, you'd be serving hard time.

 

[flacaltenn]

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

The house you're sitting in is as resistant to storm and wind because of government money spent developing those capabilities.

The car you're driving, the roads it drives on, the plane you took on your last trip, the electricity and gas that power your home have all been, at one point or another, the beneficiaries of government funded research or subsidization.

If business' true interest was in caring for your needs, it wouldn't be wasting everyone's money creating false ones. The government's job is to take care of those needs that business can't due to risk or won't due to cost.

If you want to see how well a nation works without a government, go visit Somalia.

And let's stop insulting each other.

Not really, a friend of mine BOUGHT the Apollo Mission Control computer.. I've had my hands on it.. And my Dad worked on the LEM guidance computer.. NEITHER contained any real fast track tech to the computer you're typing on..

The first 4 bit processors were developed in a race for the CONSUMER market..
Notably calculators and appliance control.

And the other poster was correct.. The govt was still paying folks for developing computers occupying multiple racks, when the Personal Computer was born..

Had to go buy a space heater today, because my govt designed heat pump cant hack 40 deg outdoor temps. And I picked up an additional plunger for my govt designed toilets...

 

[itfitzme]

So, we clearly establishe, yesterday, that the reason people deny climate change is because they believe that the mitigation efforts will take money out of their pockets.

What should be clear, then, is that all of their understanding of economics and science is predicated on this initial assumption. They begin with the assumption that all mitigation will always take money out of their pockets. Then they approach economics and science to prove that the government is bad, as taxes are bad, and that climate chamge science is wrong.

This is why their logic and reasoning is so often disjointed, why they change direction so quickly, because the thread of consideration that they are following has less to do with the science and everything to do with their a priori determination.

We have seen this in the argument that CO2 is not responsible for the increase in temp when, in fact, with further pressing, the truth is that they believe that the temperature record is wrong or fabricated. The obvious lack of logic in arguing that the temperature increase is a natural cycle, when in fact they believe that the data is faulty, completely escapes them. It escapes them because the foundation of their focus has nothing to do with the science, it is about that money in their pocket. What they really are not stating is that AWG doesn't exist because they know it will cost them money.

The fact of this is demonstrated. We can go back in the thread and see who jumped in to "prove" that a carbon tax will cost them.

The problem with their "proofs" is that, first off, they have no idea how to approach a null hypothesis. In fact, they have no null hypothesis. What thay have is a hypothesis, one that they take as actual fact. They then proceed forward, interpreting anything they can find, as proof. This is what leads to the obvious ignorance. Anything that brings their belief into question is ignored. It is also what leads them to misinterpreting the basics, like marginal costs, supply and demand equibrium shifts, and the effects of taxes amd the money supply. Everything is either molded to "prove" the a priori biased premise or is does not exist. Data either fits the premise or it is fabricated. Statement by others either support the premise or it is a lie.

So, there is the why and how of the denial of climate change.

 

[Impenitent]

More stuff that Toddster doesn't know and can't imagine others kmow

New analyses find evidence of human-caused climate change in half of the 12 extreme weather and climate events analyzed from 2012

September 5, 2013


The "Explaining Extreme Events of 2012 from a Climate Perspective" report was published today by the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society. (Full report).


Human influences are having an impact on some extreme weather and climate events, according to the report “Explaining Extreme Events of 2012 from a Climate Perspective” released today by the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society. Overall, 18 different research teams from around the world contributed to the peer-reviewed report that examined the causes of 12 extreme events that occurred on five continents and in the Arctic during 2012. Scientists from NOAA served as three of the four lead editors on the report.

The report shows that the effects of natural weather and climate fluctuations played a key role in the intensity and evolution of the 2012 extreme events. However, in some events, the analyses revealed compelling evidence that human-caused climate change, through the emission of heat-trapping gases, also contributed to the extreme event.

“This report adds to a growing ability of climate science to untangle the complexities of understanding natural and human-induced factors contributing to specific extreme weather and climate events,” said Thomas R. Karl, L.H.D, director of NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center (NCDC). “Nonetheless, determining the causes of extreme events remains challenging.”

In addition to investigating the causes of these extreme events, the multiple analyses of four of the events — the warm temperatures in the United States, the record-low levels of Arctic sea ice, and the heavy rain in both northern Europe and eastern Australia — allowed the scientists to compare and contrast the strengths and weaknesses of their various methods of analysis. Despite their different strategies, there was considerable agreement between the assessments of the same events.

Thomas Peterson, Ph.D., principal scientist at NOAA’s NCDC and one of the lead editors on the report, said, “Scientists around the world assessed a wide variety of potential contributing factors to these major extreme events that, in many cases, had large impacts on society. Understanding the range of influences on extreme events helps us to better understand how and why extremes are changing."

Key findings include:

Location and type of events analyzed in the Paper.

Location and type of events analyzed in the Paper.

Heat Wave and Drought in United States:

Human-induced climate change had little impact on the lack of precipitation in the central United States in 2012.
The 2012 spring and summer heat waves in the U.S. can be mainly explained by natural atmospheric dynamics, however, human-induced climate change was found to be a factor in the magnitude of warmth and was found to have affected the likelihood of such heat waves. For example:
High temperatures, such as those experienced in the U.S. in 2012 are now likely to occur four times as frequently due to human-induced climate change.
Approximately 35 percent of the extreme warmth experienced in the eastern U.S. between March and May 2012 can be attributed to human-induced climate change.

Hurricane Sandy Inundation Probability:

The record-setting impacts of Sandy were largely attributable to the massive storm surge and resulting inundation from the onshore-directed storm path coincident with high tide. However, climate-change related increases in sea level have nearly doubled today’s annual probability of a Sandy-level flood recurrence as compared to 1950. Ongoing natural and human-induced forcing of sea level ensures that Sandy-level inundation events will occur more frequently in the future from storms with less intensity and lower storm surge than Sandy.

Arctic Sea Ice:

The extremely low Arctic sea ice extent in summer 2012 resulted primarily from the melting of younger, thin ice from a warmed atmosphere and ocean. This event cannot be explained by natural variability alone. Summer Arctic sea ice extent will continue to decrease in the future, and is expected to be largely absent by mid-century.

Global Rainfall Events:

The unusually high amount of summer rainfall in the United Kingdom in 2012 was largely the result of natural variability. However, there is evidence that rainfall totals are influenced by increases in sea surface temperature and atmospheric moisture which may be linked to human influences on climate.
The magnitude of the extreme rainfall experienced over southeastern Australia between October 2011 and March 2012 was mainly associated with La Niña conditions. However, the likelihood of above-average precipitation during March was found to have increased by 5 percent to 15 percent because of human influences on the climate.
Extreme rainfall events such as the December 2011 two-day rainfall in Golden Bay, New Zealand, are more likely to occur due to a 1 percent to 5 percent increase in available moisture resulting from increased levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
The July 2012 extreme rainfall events in North China and southwestern Japan were mainly due to natural variability.

The report was edited by Peterson, along with Martin P. Hoerling, NOAA’s Earth System Research Laboratory; Peter A. Stott, UK Met Office Hadley Centre and Stephanie C. Herring of NCDC and written by 78 scientists from 11 countries. View the full report online.

Wow, very convincing.

I guess we're to blame for the record number of hurricanes every year for the last 5 years?

Hurricane
(to Billie Jean)

Disasters come more often it seems
And so Pat Roberson and I prayed
Everybody knows exactly what it means
It had to be that gay parade - that party on Fire Island -that nightclub down in Queens

It was worse than a disaster scene
You see on the movie screen
I said, pardon me, what do you mean, by "anthropogenic global warming?"
She said, that is why the hurricane came aground
That is why - the hurricane - came aground

She told me the hurricane's name was Sandy
And it was the corporate modus operandi
They pump carbon dioxide in the air
Then these come aground
They pump - in the air - these come aground

Now I've always trusted corporations are careful what they do
They don't pump poisons in the air
I don't think the problem could be co2
Or that the corporations - just don't care

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

For Bush's two terms,
the law was on our side
But who can stand with Obama in charge*and his business death march
But then - this hurricane- came aground

I went back to my corporate job
But what she said laid heavy on my heart
When I looked at the smoke stacks
My head began to throb - i thought about those slobs - and longed to join their mob!

Now I feel revulsed and conflicted
To this life of excess I've become addicted
I sold my soul as if money was eternal youth
Now that lie is - an inconvenient truth

All Man's wealth comes from cheap fossil fuel
I jumped at that because I'm nobody's fool
Now that cost has come home to roost, as deadly as a viper
And now we've got to pay -pay the piper

So take my strong advice
Just remember to always think twice
Do think twice - do think twice

She told my baby, we were swimming til three
Then she looked at me, and showed me a photo
My baby cried, her family had died, oh no
All because - this hurricane - came aground

Hurricanes are not global warming
She just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one

Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming

...

 

[PMZ]

Seeing as your answer is, the government will throw trillions at a solution, never mind if it doesn't work.......I prefer mine.

You don't have a solution. You don't even recognize that there's a problem. That makes you and other denialists totally useless.

If the problem is an eventual exhaustion of fossil fuels, the market will find the solution.

The only thing that will get in the way of that solution will be assclowns like you, using big government to waste trillions and put up roadblocks to the real solution.

The market is doing that today. The government is merely encouraging more rapid progress. Why? Businesses only invest in what's best for each of them individually. People only buy what they need today. Neither consumers nor companies will solve long term problems because they're no smarter than you are.

 

[flacaltenn]

More stuff that Toddster doesn't know and can't imagine others kmow

New analyses find evidence of human-caused climate change in half of the 12 extreme weather and climate events analyzed from 2012

September 5, 2013


The "Explaining Extreme Events of 2012 from a Climate Perspective" report was published today by the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society. (Full report).


Human influences are having an impact on some extreme weather and climate events, according to the report “Explaining Extreme Events of 2012 from a Climate Perspective” released today by the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society. Overall, 18 different research teams from around the world contributed to the peer-reviewed report that examined the causes of 12 extreme events that occurred on five continents and in the Arctic during 2012. Scientists from NOAA served as three of the four lead editors on the report.

The report shows that the effects of natural weather and climate fluctuations played a key role in the intensity and evolution of the 2012 extreme events. However, in some events, the analyses revealed compelling evidence that human-caused climate change, through the emission of heat-trapping gases, also contributed to the extreme event.

“This report adds to a growing ability of climate science to untangle the complexities of understanding natural and human-induced factors contributing to specific extreme weather and climate events,” said Thomas R. Karl, L.H.D, director of NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center (NCDC). “Nonetheless, determining the causes of extreme events remains challenging.”

In addition to investigating the causes of these extreme events, the multiple analyses of four of the events — the warm temperatures in the United States, the record-low levels of Arctic sea ice, and the heavy rain in both northern Europe and eastern Australia — allowed the scientists to compare and contrast the strengths and weaknesses of their various methods of analysis. Despite their different strategies, there was considerable agreement between the assessments of the same events.

Thomas Peterson, Ph.D., principal scientist at NOAA’s NCDC and one of the lead editors on the report, said, “Scientists around the world assessed a wide variety of potential contributing factors to these major extreme events that, in many cases, had large impacts on society. Understanding the range of influences on extreme events helps us to better understand how and why extremes are changing."

Key findings include:

Location and type of events analyzed in the Paper.

Location and type of events analyzed in the Paper.

Heat Wave and Drought in United States:

Human-induced climate change had little impact on the lack of precipitation in the central United States in 2012.
The 2012 spring and summer heat waves in the U.S. can be mainly explained by natural atmospheric dynamics, however, human-induced climate change was found to be a factor in the magnitude of warmth and was found to have affected the likelihood of such heat waves. For example:
High temperatures, such as those experienced in the U.S. in 2012 are now likely to occur four times as frequently due to human-induced climate change.
Approximately 35 percent of the extreme warmth experienced in the eastern U.S. between March and May 2012 can be attributed to human-induced climate change.

Hurricane Sandy Inundation Probability:

The record-setting impacts of Sandy were largely attributable to the massive storm surge and resulting inundation from the onshore-directed storm path coincident with high tide. However, climate-change related increases in sea level have nearly doubled today’s annual probability of a Sandy-level flood recurrence as compared to 1950. Ongoing natural and human-induced forcing of sea level ensures that Sandy-level inundation events will occur more frequently in the future from storms with less intensity and lower storm surge than Sandy.

Arctic Sea Ice:

The extremely low Arctic sea ice extent in summer 2012 resulted primarily from the melting of younger, thin ice from a warmed atmosphere and ocean. This event cannot be explained by natural variability alone. Summer Arctic sea ice extent will continue to decrease in the future, and is expected to be largely absent by mid-century.

Global Rainfall Events:

The unusually high amount of summer rainfall in the United Kingdom in 2012 was largely the result of natural variability. However, there is evidence that rainfall totals are influenced by increases in sea surface temperature and atmospheric moisture which may be linked to human influences on climate.
The magnitude of the extreme rainfall experienced over southeastern Australia between October 2011 and March 2012 was mainly associated with La Niña conditions. However, the likelihood of above-average precipitation during March was found to have increased by 5 percent to 15 percent because of human influences on the climate.
Extreme rainfall events such as the December 2011 two-day rainfall in Golden Bay, New Zealand, are more likely to occur due to a 1 percent to 5 percent increase in available moisture resulting from increased levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
The July 2012 extreme rainfall events in North China and southwestern Japan were mainly due to natural variability.

The report was edited by Peterson, along with Martin P. Hoerling, NOAA’s Earth System Research Laboratory; Peter A. Stott, UK Met Office Hadley Centre and Stephanie C. Herring of NCDC and written by 78 scientists from 11 countries. View the full report online.

Wow, very convincing.

I guess we're to blame for the record number of hurricanes every year for the last 5 years?

Hurricane
(to Billie Jean)

Disasters come more often it seems
And so Pat Roberson and I prayed
Everybody knows exactly what it means
It had to be that gay parade - that party on Fire Island -that nightclub down in Queens

It was worse than a disaster scene
You see on the movie screen
I said, pardon me, what do you mean, by "anthropogenic global warming?"
She said, that is why the hurricane came aground
That is why - the hurricane - came aground

She told me the hurricane's name was Sandy
And it was the corporate modus operandi
They pump carbon dioxide in the air
Then these come aground
They pump - in the air - these come aground

Now I've always trusted corporations are careful what they do
They don't pump poisons in the air
I don't think the problem could be co2
Or that the corporations - just don't care

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

For Bush's two terms,
the law was on our side
But who can stand with Obama in charge*and his business death march
But then - this hurricane- came aground

I went back to my corporate job
But what she said laid heavy on my heart
When I looked at the smoke stacks
My head began to throb - i thought about those slobs - and longed to join their mob!

Now I feel revulsed and conflicted
To this life of excess I've become addicted
I sold my soul as if money was eternal youth
Now that lie is - an inconvenient truth

All Man's wealth comes from cheap fossil fuel
I jumped at that because I'm nobody's fool
Now that cost has come home to roost, as deadly as a viper
And now we've got to pay -pay the piper

So take my strong advice
Just remember to always think twice
Do think twice - do think twice

She told my baby, we were swimming til three
Then she looked at me, and showed me a photo
My baby cried, her family had died, oh no
All because - this hurricane - came aground

Hurricanes are not global warming
She just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one

Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming

...

That is correct.. Artistic value aside and political bias cast off..

Hurricanes are not global warming. Not today or last year..

And Sandy wasn't a hurricane when NY was caught with it's pants down..
Do you know any tunes about mass hysteria?

 

[PMZ]

You obviously don't get it. Politicians are not going to decide what replaces fossil fuels. Some guy tinkering away in his garage or some small company led by a guy with big ideas is going to come up with it. No one knows who that is at the moment. If government gets too powerful and interferes too much in the market, it will never happen.

They way big problems get solved is by millions of individuals using their brains to solve their own problems. Government "solutions" only lead to more government and less prosperity for everyone.

The guy in his garage better get his ass in gear. The clock is ticking.

The government has many solutions to problems. So does business. After all both are run by liberals and that's what liberals so. Solve problems.

Yes, Obama and Solyndra solved a problem, how to give hundreds of millions of taxpayer funds to an Obama supporter.

One thing quite beyond conservative ''thinking'' is the concept of business and technological risk. It's incurable.

 

[PMZ]

Time to put the troll to bed.. He's got a busy day tomorrow fixing all those problems..
"That's what Liberals do" ?????????????????????????????????

Maybe --- I'm a Liberal.. Not the kind of Liberal that PMZ would recognize. THE REAL kind of Liberal that has an inherent distrust of government power and reach.. And a huge faith in INDIVIDUAL initiative and responsibilities. The trolls have inbred any kind of self-preservation RIGHT out of their offspring...

REALLY Man.. DOn't feed this troll anymore.. He's exploding out of his jump suit like O.J.

I have inherent mistrust in make more money regardless of the cost to others.

 

[PMZ]

Of what relevance is that? The claim that corporations can set whatever price they want is obvious bullshit. If that was the case, then why would the price of oil ever go down? Ifitzme asked why the price declined in 2009. His theories can't explain it.

Oil prices will be determined by what alternative to oil is available. That’s why big oil has directed their minions to deny reality. It's good for the oil business. The minions don't think. The do what they're told.

The price of oil is determined by the laws of supply and demand, just like the price of every other commodity. Contrary to your paranoid delusions, opposition to your schemes to save humanity isn't driven by some diabolical conspiracy instigated by the oil companies. I'm not a "minion" of the oil companies. If I was, then where's the my check?

Why should they pay you if you are willing to follow just for a very little media entertainment?

 

[PMZ]

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

No, the computer I am typing on is the result of a couple of individuals pursuing a great idea in their garage. Government would have never willingly handed over this sort of power to the public. It was only their profound lack of foresight that allowed those two guys in the garage to fully realize their idea.

The technology came from the government, not take as little risk as possible, make more money regardless of the cost to others, business.

 

[PMZ]

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

The computers used for the moon mission had less power than a digital watch. it was afterwards when private industry got involved in the computer chip business when we saw great leaps and bounds.

The house you're sitting in is as resistant to storm and wind because of government money spent developing those capabilities.

The government did not develop construction methods all it did was set minimum standards for buildings. The construction industry had to find a way to meet those standards in an efficient affordable manner.

The car you're driving, the roads it drives on, the plane you took on your last trip, the electricity and gas that power your home have all been, at one point or another, the beneficiaries of government funded research or subsidization.

It's not the government's job to provide for our needs.

If you want to see how well a nation works without a government, go visit Somalia.

And let's stop insulting each other.

Here we go again with the Somalia red herring.

Where has anyone here suggested we have no government?

Somalia is not a red herring. It's the realized vision of extreme conservative politics, though it was realized just by people who didn't know any better. Conservatives don't know any better either. They merely follow those selling plutocracy.

 

[PMZ]

The computer you're typing on is the result of government funds spent developing processors were as small and as powerful as possible to support the moon mission.

The house you're sitting in is as resistant to storm and wind because of government money spent developing those capabilities.

The car you're driving, the roads it drives on, the plane you took on your last trip, the electricity and gas that power your home have all been, at one point or another, the beneficiaries of government funded research or subsidization.

If business' true interest was in caring for your needs, it wouldn't be wasting everyone's money creating false ones. The government's job is to take care of those needs that business can't due to risk or won't due to cost.

If you want to see how well a nation works without a government, go visit Somalia.

And let's stop insulting each other.

Not really, a friend of mine BOUGHT the Apollo Mission Control computer.. I've had my hands on it.. And my Dad worked on the LEM guidance computer.. NEITHER contained any real fast track tech to the computer you're typing on..

The first 4 bit processors were developed in a race for the CONSUMER market..
Notably calculators and appliance control.

And the other poster was correct.. The govt was still paying folks for developing computers occupying multiple racks, when the Personal Computer was born..

Had to go buy a space heater today, because my govt designed heat pump cant hack 40 deg outdoor temps. And I picked up an additional plunger for my govt designed toilets...

''the Apollo Mission Control computer''

This statement alone defines the depth of your technological knowledge. The computer. Amazing.

 

[PMZ]

So, we clearly establishe, yesterday, that the reason people deny climate change is because they believe that the mitigation efforts will take money out of their pockets.

What should be clear, then, is that all of their understanding of economics and science is predicated on this initial assumption. They begin with the assumption that all mitigation will always take money out of their pockets. Then they approach economics and science to prove that the government is bad, as taxes are bad, and that climate chamge science is wrong.

This is why their logic and reasoning is so often disjointed, why they change direction so quickly, because the thread of consideration that they are following has less to do with the science and everything to do with their a priori determination.

We have seen this in the argument that CO2 is not responsible for the increase in temp when, in fact, with further pressing, the truth is that they believe that the temperature record is wrong or fabricated. The obvious lack of logic in arguing that the temperature increase is a natural cycle, when in fact they believe that the data is faulty, completely escapes them. It escapes them because the foundation of their focus has nothing to do with the science, it is about that money in their pocket. What they really are not stating is that AWG doesn't exist because they know it will cost them money.

The fact of this is demonstrated. We can go back in the thread and see who jumped in to "prove" that a carbon tax will cost them.

The problem with their "proofs" is that, first off, they have no idea how to approach a null hypothesis. In fact, they have no null hypothesis. What thay have is a hypothesis, one that they take as actual fact. They then proceed forward, interpreting anything they can find, as proof. This is what leads to the obvious ignorance. Anything that brings their belief into question is ignored. It is also what leads them to misinterpreting the basics, like marginal costs, supply and demand equibrium shifts, and the effects of taxes amd the money supply. Everything is either molded to "prove" the a priori biased premise or is does not exist. Data either fits the premise or it is fabricated. Statement by others either support the premise or it is a lie.

So, there is the why and how of the denial of climate change.

There are two possible explanations. They don't know or they do know but don't care.

I go with the latter. They know but want to dump the consequences of their lives on liberals and future generations.

It's mere failure to take responsibility.

 

[PMZ]

More stuff that Toddster doesn't know and can't imagine others kmow

New analyses find evidence of human-caused climate change in half of the 12 extreme weather and climate events analyzed from 2012

September 5, 2013


The "Explaining Extreme Events of 2012 from a Climate Perspective" report was published today by the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society. (Full report).


Human influences are having an impact on some extreme weather and climate events, according to the report “Explaining Extreme Events of 2012 from a Climate Perspective” released today by the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society. Overall, 18 different research teams from around the world contributed to the peer-reviewed report that examined the causes of 12 extreme events that occurred on five continents and in the Arctic during 2012. Scientists from NOAA served as three of the four lead editors on the report.

The report shows that the effects of natural weather and climate fluctuations played a key role in the intensity and evolution of the 2012 extreme events. However, in some events, the analyses revealed compelling evidence that human-caused climate change, through the emission of heat-trapping gases, also contributed to the extreme event.

“This report adds to a growing ability of climate science to untangle the complexities of understanding natural and human-induced factors contributing to specific extreme weather and climate events,” said Thomas R. Karl, L.H.D, director of NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center (NCDC). “Nonetheless, determining the causes of extreme events remains challenging.”

In addition to investigating the causes of these extreme events, the multiple analyses of four of the events — the warm temperatures in the United States, the record-low levels of Arctic sea ice, and the heavy rain in both northern Europe and eastern Australia — allowed the scientists to compare and contrast the strengths and weaknesses of their various methods of analysis. Despite their different strategies, there was considerable agreement between the assessments of the same events.

Thomas Peterson, Ph.D., principal scientist at NOAA’s NCDC and one of the lead editors on the report, said, “Scientists around the world assessed a wide variety of potential contributing factors to these major extreme events that, in many cases, had large impacts on society. Understanding the range of influences on extreme events helps us to better understand how and why extremes are changing."

Key findings include:

Location and type of events analyzed in the Paper.

Location and type of events analyzed in the Paper.

Heat Wave and Drought in United States:

Human-induced climate change had little impact on the lack of precipitation in the central United States in 2012.
The 2012 spring and summer heat waves in the U.S. can be mainly explained by natural atmospheric dynamics, however, human-induced climate change was found to be a factor in the magnitude of warmth and was found to have affected the likelihood of such heat waves. For example:
High temperatures, such as those experienced in the U.S. in 2012 are now likely to occur four times as frequently due to human-induced climate change.
Approximately 35 percent of the extreme warmth experienced in the eastern U.S. between March and May 2012 can be attributed to human-induced climate change.

Hurricane Sandy Inundation Probability:

The record-setting impacts of Sandy were largely attributable to the massive storm surge and resulting inundation from the onshore-directed storm path coincident with high tide. However, climate-change related increases in sea level have nearly doubled today’s annual probability of a Sandy-level flood recurrence as compared to 1950. Ongoing natural and human-induced forcing of sea level ensures that Sandy-level inundation events will occur more frequently in the future from storms with less intensity and lower storm surge than Sandy.

Arctic Sea Ice:

The extremely low Arctic sea ice extent in summer 2012 resulted primarily from the melting of younger, thin ice from a warmed atmosphere and ocean. This event cannot be explained by natural variability alone. Summer Arctic sea ice extent will continue to decrease in the future, and is expected to be largely absent by mid-century.

Global Rainfall Events:

The unusually high amount of summer rainfall in the United Kingdom in 2012 was largely the result of natural variability. However, there is evidence that rainfall totals are influenced by increases in sea surface temperature and atmospheric moisture which may be linked to human influences on climate.
The magnitude of the extreme rainfall experienced over southeastern Australia between October 2011 and March 2012 was mainly associated with La Niña conditions. However, the likelihood of above-average precipitation during March was found to have increased by 5 percent to 15 percent because of human influences on the climate.
Extreme rainfall events such as the December 2011 two-day rainfall in Golden Bay, New Zealand, are more likely to occur due to a 1 percent to 5 percent increase in available moisture resulting from increased levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
The July 2012 extreme rainfall events in North China and southwestern Japan were mainly due to natural variability.

The report was edited by Peterson, along with Martin P. Hoerling, NOAA’s Earth System Research Laboratory; Peter A. Stott, UK Met Office Hadley Centre and Stephanie C. Herring of NCDC and written by 78 scientists from 11 countries. View the full report online.

Wow, very convincing.

I guess we're to blame for the record number of hurricanes every year for the last 5 years?

Hurricane
(to Billie Jean)

Disasters come more often it seems
And so Pat Roberson and I prayed
Everybody knows exactly what it means
It had to be that gay parade - that party on Fire Island -that nightclub down in Queens

It was worse than a disaster scene
You see on the movie screen
I said, pardon me, what do you mean, by "anthropogenic global warming?"
She said, that is why the hurricane came aground
That is why - the hurricane - came aground

She told me the hurricane's name was Sandy
And it was the corporate modus operandi
They pump carbon dioxide in the air
Then these come aground
They pump - in the air - these come aground

Now I've always trusted corporations are careful what they do
They don't pump poisons in the air
I don't think the problem could be co2
Or that the corporations - just don't care

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

For Bush's two terms,
the law was on our side
But who can stand with Obama in charge*and his business death march
But then - this hurricane- came aground

I went back to my corporate job
But what she said laid heavy on my heart
When I looked at the smoke stacks
My head began to throb - i thought about those slobs - and longed to join their mob!

Now I feel revulsed and conflicted
To this life of excess I've become addicted
I sold my soul as if money was eternal youth
Now that lie is - an inconvenient truth

All Man's wealth comes from cheap fossil fuel
I jumped at that because I'm nobody's fool
Now that cost has come home to roost, as deadly as a viper
And now we've got to pay -pay the piper

So take my strong advice
Just remember to always think twice
Do think twice - do think twice

She told my baby, we were swimming til three
Then she looked at me, and showed me a photo
My baby cried, her family had died, oh no
All because - this hurricane - came aground

Hurricanes are not global warming
She just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one

Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming

...

Unstable climate is AGW.

 

[PMZ]

Wow, very convincing.

I guess we're to blame for the record number of hurricanes every year for the last 5 years?

Hurricane
(to Billie Jean)

Disasters come more often it seems
And so Pat Roberson and I prayed
Everybody knows exactly what it means
It had to be that gay parade - that party on Fire Island -that nightclub down in Queens

It was worse than a disaster scene
You see on the movie screen
I said, pardon me, what do you mean, by "anthropogenic global warming?"
She said, that is why the hurricane came aground
That is why - the hurricane - came aground

She told me the hurricane's name was Sandy
And it was the corporate modus operandi
They pump carbon dioxide in the air
Then these come aground
They pump - in the air - these come aground

Now I've always trusted corporations are careful what they do
They don't pump poisons in the air
I don't think the problem could be co2
Or that the corporations - just don't care

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son
She says they are the one
But the hurricane is not their son

For Bush's two terms,
the law was on our side
But who can stand with Obama in charge*and his business death march
But then - this hurricane- came aground

I went back to my corporate job
But what she said laid heavy on my heart
When I looked at the smoke stacks
My head began to throb - i thought about those slobs - and longed to join their mob!

Now I feel revulsed and conflicted
To this life of excess I've become addicted
I sold my soul as if money was eternal youth
Now that lie is - an inconvenient truth

All Man's wealth comes from cheap fossil fuel
I jumped at that because I'm nobody's fool
Now that cost has come home to roost, as deadly as a viper
And now we've got to pay -pay the piper

So take my strong advice
Just remember to always think twice
Do think twice - do think twice

She told my baby, we were swimming til three
Then she looked at me, and showed me a photo
My baby cried, her family had died, oh no
All because - this hurricane - came aground

Hurricanes are not global warming
She just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But the hurricane is not Koch's son

Hurricanes are not global warming
She's just a girl who claims
They caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
But Sandy is not Koch's son

She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one
She says they caused this one

Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming
Hurricanes are not global warming

...

That is correct.. Artistic value aside and political bias cast off..

Hurricanes are not global warming. Not today or last year..

And Sandy wasn't a hurricane when NY was caught with it's pants down..
Do you know any tunes about mass hysteria?

Most of Sandy's damage was done by water. The consequence of adding high assignable cause variability to elevated sea level.