Why Do Mormons Teach Apostasy & Priesthood ?

Sublimating

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I'm a Christian and I don't believe in this doctrine. Here's my a bit of my case against it.

1.Christ stands as the eternal priest and mediator between man and God therefore authority transfers from Christ to man and not from man to man.

2. The scriptures declare "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" There is no mention of priest.

3. God is no respecter of persons so there is no man or church who can rightfully and truthfully claim that God has given him and only him and his organization special authority over the church. The scriptures declare "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally", so there's no reason Joseph Smith or the LDS can lay claim to any authority that other people or denominations can't also lay claim to.

OK, that's a start...
 
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Eightball

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First and foremost, Christ is our Priest...........He's our advocate before the Father, and it is by His shed blood at Calvary that we have been given access to the Father(Holy of Holies).

The Mormon church has a priesthood based on total error, but defends it based on their "new revelation" which they will defend as sufficient in "trumping" the bible.

We know that the Levitical priesthood, and the one Levite priest that could enter the Holy of Holies once a year and present a sacrifice for the nation of Israel was a "foreshadow" of the coming Messiah/Christ.
*******
When dealing with the Mormon/LDS church you are dealing with a "cult"...........It in some ways is an off shoot of Christianity if you consider that they do partially venerate the King James, but that about as far as it goes.

Joseph Smith has a very shady past. He and his father spent their livelihoods dooping people out of their money on treasure hunting schemes. This is documented.

This man was prone to "visions", as we know many people nowadays are prone to "visions" when they don't take their medication.

There is the possibility that his visions were not a "mind trip" and were just part of the "con man" genetics that he had while living in New York.

Blood Atonement: This is such a blasphemous teaching by the church. Basically by it's very definition it tells and teaches that Jesus Christ's death on the cross was "Not Enough".

Sadly, many honest seeking folks have been sucked into the ranks of LDS membership. They present a "moral", "clean cut", "ethical" veneer of religiosity, that meets the humanistic definition of what a religion ought to be. When put before the bible/scripture it sadly lacks God's stamp of approval.
********
 

Coyote

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First and foremost, Christ is our Priest...........He's our advocate before the Father, and it is by His shed blood at Calvary that we have been given access to the Father(Holy of Holies).

The Mormon church has a priesthood based on total error, but defends it based on their "new revelation" which they will defend as sufficient in "trumping" the bible.

We know that the Levitical priesthood, and the one Levite priest that could enter the Holy of Holies once a year and present a sacrifice for the nation of Israel was a "foreshadow" of the coming Messiah/Christ.
*******
When dealing with the Mormon/LDS church you are dealing with a "cult"...........It in some ways is an off shoot of Christianity if you consider that they do partially venerate the King James, but that about as far as it goes.

Joseph Smith has a very shady past. He and his father spent their livelihoods dooping people out of their money on treasure hunting schemes. This is documented.

This man was prone to "visions", as we know many people nowadays are prone to "visions" when they don't take their medication.

There is the possibility that his visions were not a "mind trip" and were just part of the "con man" genetics that he had while living in New York.

Blood Atonement: This is such a blasphemous teaching by the church. Basically by it's very definition it tells and teaches that Jesus Christ's death on the cross was "Not Enough".

Sadly, many honest seeking folks have been sucked into the ranks of LDS membership. They present a "moral", "clean cut", "ethical" veneer of religiosity, that meets the humanistic definition of what a religion ought to be. When put before the bible/scripture it sadly lacks God's stamp of approval.
********
Sounds like this could apply to most of the world's great prophets and demi-gods.

"visions"....talking incindiary shrubbery....
 

amrchaos

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So, are guys saying that Mormonism is a false religion?

Then, what is a true religion?
 

Coyote

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So, are guys saying that Mormonism is a false religion?

Then, what is a true religion?
Why...the one that tells The Truth of course....there can only be one....right...?:eusa_think:
 

amrchaos

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So, are guys saying that Mormonism is a false religion?

Then, what is a true religion?
Why...the one that tells The Truth of course....there can only be one....right...?:eusa_think:

Is this truth "objective" or "subjective"

Because, if religious truth is subjective, then the Mormons speak truth to their followers!
 

Avatar4321

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I'm a Christian and I don't believe in this doctrine. Here's my a bit of my case against it.

1.Christ stands as the eternal priest and mediator between man and God therefore authority transfers from Christ to man and not from man to man.

2. The scriptures declare "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" There is no mention of priest.

3. God is no respecter of persons so there is no man or church who can rightfully and truthfully claim that God has given him and only him and his organization special authority over the church. The scriptures declare "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally", so there's no reason Joseph Smith or the LDS can lay claim to any authority that other people or denominations can't also lay claim to.

OK, that's a start...
Wisdom/knowledge and Priesthood are not identical.

Let me ask this question of you:

Have men authority to administer in the name of Christ, who deny revelations, when His testimony is no less than the spirit of prophecy, and His religion based, built, and sustained by immediate revelations, in all ages of the world when He has had a people on earth?

The Book of Hebrew speaks of Christ as a High Priest after the order of Melchesidek. A Priesthood Order includes more than one person. In fact, they specifically point to the Great High Priest Melchesidek.

The Bible is filled with Priests. The Gospels focused on the importance of the Authority of Christ and the Apostles to differentiate between them and the Pharisees and Scribes.

As for the laying on of hands. Do a search of the Bible, both old and new and see how many times the scriptures mention the importance of laying on hands. In fact, Hebrews mentions how the laying on of hands is a key part to the foundation of what Paul called "The Doctrine of Christ" (Hebrews 6:1-2)

In the scripture from Ephesians you mentioned, Paul mentions several of the offices in the Priesthood. But He also mentions Bishops and Deacons in other letters that he didn't mention in that list. Paul wasn't trying to list all the offices of the Priesthood, he was trying to argue that the Lord has given us these offices to brings us to a Unity of faith.

Your verse also brings up an interesting question. Where are the Apostles and Prophets the Lord has given us? And I would argue that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is unique in that we are lead by Apostles and Prophets who recieve revelation from Jesus Christ, the Chief Cornerstone.

Finally, I would answer your main question directly. We teach it because it happned. There was an Apostasy. And there was a Restoration of priesthood authority. You can read a short account of some of the early events in the Restoration at the following:

Joseph Smith—History 1
 

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So, are guys saying that Mormonism is a false religion?

Then, what is a true religion?
I think the only place to recieve that answer is from God Himself, but it's amazing how few ask Him.
 

Avatar4321

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First and foremost, Christ is our Priest...........He's our advocate before the Father, and it is by His shed blood at Calvary that we have been given access to the Father(Holy of Holies).

The Mormon church has a priesthood based on total error, but defends it based on their "new revelation" which they will defend as sufficient in "trumping" the bible.

We know that the Levitical priesthood, and the one Levite priest that could enter the Holy of Holies once a year and present a sacrifice for the nation of Israel was a "foreshadow" of the coming Messiah/Christ.
*******
When dealing with the Mormon/LDS church you are dealing with a "cult"...........It in some ways is an off shoot of Christianity if you consider that they do partially venerate the King James, but that about as far as it goes.

Joseph Smith has a very shady past. He and his father spent their livelihoods dooping people out of their money on treasure hunting schemes. This is documented.

This man was prone to "visions", as we know many people nowadays are prone to "visions" when they don't take their medication.

There is the possibility that his visions were not a "mind trip" and were just part of the "con man" genetics that he had while living in New York.

Blood Atonement: This is such a blasphemous teaching by the church. Basically by it's very definition it tells and teaches that Jesus Christ's death on the cross was "Not Enough".

Sadly, many honest seeking folks have been sucked into the ranks of LDS membership. They present a "moral", "clean cut", "ethical" veneer of religiosity, that meets the humanistic definition of what a religion ought to be. When put before the bible/scripture it sadly lacks God's stamp of approval.
********
Are you telling me you don't believe in visions?
 
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Sublimating

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I'm a Christian and I don't believe in this doctrine. Here's my a bit of my case against it.

1.Christ stands as the eternal priest and mediator between man and God therefore authority transfers from Christ to man and not from man to man.

2. The scriptures declare "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" There is no mention of priest.

3. God is no respecter of persons so there is no man or church who can rightfully and truthfully claim that God has given him and only him and his organization special authority over the church. The scriptures declare "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally", so there's no reason Joseph Smith or the LDS can lay claim to any authority that other people or denominations can't also lay claim to.

OK, that's a start...
Wisdom/knowledge and Priesthood are not identical.

Let me ask this question of you:

Have men authority to administer in the name of Christ, who deny revelations, when His testimony is no less than the spirit of prophecy, and His religion based, built, and sustained by immediate revelations, in all ages of the world when He has had a people on earth?

The Book of Hebrew speaks of Christ as a High Priest after the order of Melchesidek. A Priesthood Order includes more than one person. In fact, they specifically point to the Great High Priest Melchesidek.

The Bible is filled with Priests. The Gospels focused on the importance of the Authority of Christ and the Apostles to differentiate between them and the Pharisees and Scribes.

As for the laying on of hands. Do a search of the Bible, both old and new and see how many times the scriptures mention the importance of laying on hands. In fact, Hebrews mentions how the laying on of hands is a key part to the foundation of what Paul called "The Doctrine of Christ" (Hebrews 6:1-2)

In the scripture from Ephesians you mentioned, Paul mentions several of the offices in the Priesthood. But He also mentions Bishops and Deacons in other letters that he didn't mention in that list. Paul wasn't trying to list all the offices of the Priesthood, he was trying to argue that the Lord has given us these offices to brings us to a Unity of faith.

Your verse also brings up an interesting question. Where are the Apostles and Prophets the Lord has given us? And I would argue that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is unique in that we are lead by Apostles and Prophets who recieve revelation from Jesus Christ, the Chief Cornerstone.

Finally, I would answer your main question directly. We teach it because it happned. There was an Apostasy. And there was a Restoration of priesthood authority. You can read a short account of some of the early events in the Restoration at the following:

Joseph Smith—History 1
Bishops & Deacons are offices created by the church. God gave the others, they were not added positions. As to where the Apostles and prophets are...I have met many people who held the tittle of Apostle and of Prophet but that doesn't mean that they were actually prophets or apostles as God has instructed us to try the spirits because there are many false prophets and the same is true of apostles.

I would like it if you could fully address question number #3 What claim can the LDS Church lay hold to that another church cannot also claim?

In your short history of JS it quotes the scripture that says God gives liberally to all men so why do you teach that God has only given the LDS Church certain authorities? How can you claim this as the truth without knowing it to be so?

and if you could demonstrate the occurrence of apostasy with biblical scripture.
 
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Eightball

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First and foremost, Christ is our Priest...........He's our advocate before the Father, and it is by His shed blood at Calvary that we have been given access to the Father(Holy of Holies).

The Mormon church has a priesthood based on total error, but defends it based on their "new revelation" which they will defend as sufficient in "trumping" the bible.

We know that the Levitical priesthood, and the one Levite priest that could enter the Holy of Holies once a year and present a sacrifice for the nation of Israel was a "foreshadow" of the coming Messiah/Christ.
*******
When dealing with the Mormon/LDS church you are dealing with a "cult"...........It in some ways is an off shoot of Christianity if you consider that they do partially venerate the King James, but that about as far as it goes.

Joseph Smith has a very shady past. He and his father spent their livelihoods dooping people out of their money on treasure hunting schemes. This is documented.

This man was prone to "visions", as we know many people nowadays are prone to "visions" when they don't take their medication.

There is the possibility that his visions were not a "mind trip" and were just part of the "con man" genetics that he had while living in New York.

Blood Atonement: This is such a blasphemous teaching by the church. Basically by it's very definition it tells and teaches that Jesus Christ's death on the cross was "Not Enough".

Sadly, many honest seeking folks have been sucked into the ranks of LDS membership. They present a "moral", "clean cut", "ethical" veneer of religiosity, that meets the humanistic definition of what a religion ought to be. When put before the bible/scripture it sadly lacks God's stamp of approval.
********
Are you telling me you don't believe in visions?
The problem lies in putting too much creedence in "visions" and not enough creedence in scripture.

Paul.........the Apostle, appointed by Jesus Christ while he/Paul was on His way to Damascus, clearly states that we/Christians must "test" the spirits.............This is why he/Paul clear states in Romans, the our faith comes by "hearing", and "hearing" by the Word/scripture of God."

Your church puts so much of their validation of faith in visions......and burning bosoms experiences, and dreams, and when it conflicts with the bible, you go with the vision/dream/etc...

Faith is not developed in the true Christian by visual, physical phenomena, but by believing in God's Word.

Thomas was the disciple that said that he had to touch the scars on Jesus to actually believe the Jesus was raised from the dead. Jesus mildly rebuked Thomas afterwards, by telling him and the others their in the room that in the future, people will believe and not "see" as Thomas did and will have strong faith, as the H.Spirit will give them validation in their souls.

When a Mormon missionary, elder at your door encourages you to ask God in prayer if Mormonism is the truth, that Mormon is violating biblical scripture. Paul again said, go to the Word of God, to confirm yeah or nay.

If a Christian or non-Christian does as the Mormon rep asks them to do, Satan is overjoyed and will provide a nice juicy phenomena perfectly fit for that individual that will communicate that Mormonism is the "truth". It has happened myriads of times over and over again since the beginning of the LDS religion.

People have had dreams with dead relatives telling them that Mormonism is the truth. Visions...........dreams.......burning in the bosom..........with validation that way is so risky.

Just look at the various Christian denominations that have gone overboard into the "tongues" gift phenomena................People have been erroneously encouraged right from the pulpit to seek out tongues as an alleged "filling" of the Holy Spirit.

I have visited many of these Christian churches where miracles, visions, tongues......etc... is over emphasized, and scripture is given a second seat.

Yet, what I have observed is an immaturity in those Christian believers, as they "gauge" their Christian faith upon how much they experience "phenomena" and some how conclude that their faith needs this constant boost in order to continue in abiding in Christ.

Sadly, the drop-out rate from these denominations is drastic, as God will in his disciplining love, cut-off the phenomena from these believers, and force them to exercize true faith, which is dependent on His written Word.

There is a great old devotions book written by a Mrs. Charles Cowman, called "Streams In The Desert".............The title says it all.

The streams or "Life" does flow in the desert...........the desert is the life that must depend on God regardless of phenomena, or good days or bad days. This is the faith that hangs on when everything around them says, "curse God" and walk away, cause He isn't there to help you when you really need Him."

The Mormon doctrine of depending on alleged miraculous things to confirm their system of belief is precarious at the least, and disastrous to true faith for the most part.

Grace is also a mysterious one for the Mormon. Unmerited favor, is not something they comprehend. Grace is the stimulous behind true faith; the faith that carries one through sickness, bereavement, and all kinds of loss of great magnitude. It is the peace that passeth all understanding while enduring the greatest storms of life.
******
J.S. Jr. I believe had a sexual hangup as his proclivity to encourage plural marriage is the epitome of carnality in the human male.

Teaching celestial sex in their LDS made-up heaven is a red flag in his teaching that indicates or points towards a strange, and strong sexual emphasis as part of their his erroneous revelations.

It is the plural marriage thing that got the Mormons banished from every town and state they traveled through on their way to Salt Lake.
********
Mormon Temple Rites: This is another thing that needs explanation from Mormons. Why do their secret temple rights, handshakes, etc.. parallel Masonic initiations so closely?

It is said that J.S. Jr. was a Freemason of high degrees. Interestingly, the venerated book of the Freemasons, "Morals and Dogmas of Freemasonry" by Albert Pike, states that Lucifer is the true God.........Also, Albert Pike was high up in the KKK during and after the civil war.

Interestingly, Mormon teaching says that lucifer, the devil/Satan was Jesus' brother.

Interesting parallels?

In fact, there was a good chance that Lucifer could have been sent by the Mormon/Father God to earth to be our Savior instead of Jesus, but the "counsel" their in Mormon heaven decided that Jesus would go. This enraged Lucifer, Jesus' brother.......so he/satan became the bad guy.

Just the very fact of equating Jesus Christ with anyting created is blasphemous. Jesus' incarnation at Bethlehem was not a creative moment by God but a sending of His Son who had for eternity past/present/future sat at the right hand of the Father. Jesus allowed Himself to become human flesh, with all it's limitations in order to be the perfect sacrificial lamb of God.
*****
The bible has all that's needed to believe, and hold strong in faith to God through Jesus Christ's life.
******
Visions are a questionable, and weak link. Those who depend on that phenomena to validate their faith will inevitably fall painfully, as God will finally have to expose to them that they have been believing based on a false foundation, and not the Word of God.

Evidence Demands a Verdict, and the bible is a more than ample source of evidence.
********
 

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