Billiejeens
Diamond Member
- Jun 27, 2019
- 32,084
- 20,871
- 1,845
It's certainly in the direction.
Not in any real way, no.
Why Do American Politicians Dislike Socialism and Communism So Much?
- Thread starter Alexandre Fedorovski
- Start date
Not in any real way, no.
It's certainly in the direction.
Not in any real way, no.
Sure man. If you say so. "It's different when we do it".
Billiejeens
Diamond Member
- Jun 27, 2019
- 32,084
- 20,871
- 1,845
It's certainly in the direction.
Not in any real way, no.
Sure man. If you say so. "It's different when we do it".
It's not Socialism
If you believe that to be Socialism - that's your prerogative
I'm simply not going to join you in your misunderstanding of the subject - that's my prerogative.
- Sep 16, 2012
- 57,847
- 51,413
- 3,605
I've always believed we should have an amendment keeping the government not only out of the economy, but from picking and choosing which science endeavors to support. It should be blind support, if they support science at all.
With the government supporting science, and different agencies having science driven agendas? NASA has become a joke. We get biased science and a society that worships at the alter of government and science. . . We have entered a new dark age.
Yep. We can quibble about specifics, but the general theme of socialism is state control of our economic decisions. It's just a question of degree - do we want such interference to be minimal, or do we want more?
My God man, I don’t know all the particulars of your brothers case, but one anecdotal outcome is no where near indicative of an entire system.Very much depends on how you define emergency. If your definition is " a condition if left unattended could result in immediate death" than yes. If your definition is" a condition if left unattended will result in long term harm or death" than no. As happened to my brother in law who's shattered shoulder was not deemed life threatening and ended up going from a productive member of society to a person collecting a disability check.Those that aren't capable of affording it. In the case of healthcare. Those that aren't capable of moving to a good school district in the case of education.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
renewedright.com
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
About four-in-ten Americans (42%) have positive views of socialism. Among this group, the most frequently cited reason is that it will result in fairer, more generous society (31% say this). This includes 10% who specifically express a belief that it is important for the government to take care of its citizens or for fellow citizens to care for each other.
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.thehill.com
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.thefederalist.com
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Some facts then. The USA is the third-largest oil exporter and has the largest economy in the world. Nordic style countries which include almost the entirety of Europe and include Japan all have far-reaching social programs and have stable and prosperous societies. Some of those countries only have a few million people and some over fifty and in the case of Japan over a hundred million.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Do you know what you don't see? Larger countries being less successful in keeping those social programs viable. As to the US being more diverse. My country (Belgium) has large minorities that include Italians, Moroccans, Turks, and Congolese. To be joined recently by Syrians, Afghans, and Iraqis to name a few. We still have our social programs and this without natural resources to speak of in-country. Nordic countries have lower population densities.
So what pray tell makes it impossible for the US to pursue similar policies that result in no student debt, a living wage for nearly everybody, and a health care system that gives access to high-level healthcare for its entire populace?
The citizenry as a whole would never go for that. Anyway, I’m parked for the night so another time.I don't know about that. Demographics aren't on your side. As less and less of the electorate grew up during the cold war and more and more of them are minorities who grew up seeing the rich getting richer while the middle class shrunk. The idea that having access to health are and education is the road to Communism will become a harder and harder sell IMO.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Some facts then. The USA is the third-largest oil exporter and has the largest economy in the world. Nordic style countries which include almost the entirety of Europe and include Japan all have far-reaching social programs and have stable and prosperous societies. Some of those countries only have a few million people and some over fifty and in the case of Japan over a hundred million.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Do you know what you don't see? Larger countries being less successful in keeping those social programs viable. As to the US being more diverse. My country (Belgium) has large minorities that include Italians, Moroccans, Turks, and Congolese. To be joined recently by Syrians, Afghans, and Iraqis to name a few. We still have our social programs and this without natural resources to speak of in-country. Nordic countries have lower population densities.
So what pray tell makes it impossible for the US to pursue similar policies that result in no student debt, a living wage for nearly everybody, and a health care system that gives access to high-level healthcare for its entire populace?
The citizenry as a whole would never go for that. Anyway, I’m parked for the night so another time.
“Access”? Who doesn’t have access?
Economic circumstances are a way more effective method in making certain services hard to get or even unattainable in some circumstances than a government run healthcare system can ever be.
Do hospitals refuse to treat emergencies?
And, are you saying that you support school choice?
I'm gonna give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you know that a decent healthcare system is about more than emergency care
As to me supporting school choice. I'm not saying I support it. I'm saying I have it. It does require a perquisite. A public transportation system both cheap and extensive. This in order to get the pupils to the classrooms if they live further away.
And, we all have choices, whether we choose to act is another question.
Nothing in life is free.
You are right that one anecdotal case isn't necessarily indicative of the entire system but the fact that I have a close family member that had this happen to him seems to be a clear answer to what you asked right? Emergency care in the USA seemed to use a very narrow interpretation of the word emergency in his case. What if I told you that this simply doesn't happen in Belgium? I know this because emergency care here DOES take care of all injuries when you come into an emergency room. Even if you aren't insured.My God man, I don’t know all the particulars of your brothers case, but one anecdotal outcome is no where near indicative of an entire system.Very much depends on how you define emergency. If your definition is " a condition if left unattended could result in immediate death" than yes. If your definition is" a condition if left unattended will result in long term harm or death" than no. As happened to my brother in law who's shattered shoulder was not deemed life threatening and ended up going from a productive member of society to a person collecting a disability check.Those that aren't capable of affording it. In the case of healthcare. Those that aren't capable of moving to a good school district in the case of education.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Some facts then. The USA is the third-largest oil exporter and has the largest economy in the world. Nordic style countries which include almost the entirety of Europe and include Japan all have far-reaching social programs and have stable and prosperous societies. Some of those countries only have a few million people and some over fifty and in the case of Japan over a hundred million.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Do you know what you don't see? Larger countries being less successful in keeping those social programs viable. As to the US being more diverse. My country (Belgium) has large minorities that include Italians, Moroccans, Turks, and Congolese. To be joined recently by Syrians, Afghans, and Iraqis to name a few. We still have our social programs and this without natural resources to speak of in-country. Nordic countries have lower population densities.
So what pray tell makes it impossible for the US to pursue similar policies that result in no student debt, a living wage for nearly everybody, and a health care system that gives access to high-level healthcare for its entire populace?
The citizenry as a whole would never go for that. Anyway, I’m parked for the night so another time.I don't know about that. Demographics aren't on your side. As less and less of the electorate grew up during the cold war and more and more of them are minorities who grew up seeing the rich getting richer while the middle class shrunk. The idea that having access to health are and education is the road to Communism will become a harder and harder sell IMO.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Some facts then. The USA is the third-largest oil exporter and has the largest economy in the world. Nordic style countries which include almost the entirety of Europe and include Japan all have far-reaching social programs and have stable and prosperous societies. Some of those countries only have a few million people and some over fifty and in the case of Japan over a hundred million.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Do you know what you don't see? Larger countries being less successful in keeping those social programs viable. As to the US being more diverse. My country (Belgium) has large minorities that include Italians, Moroccans, Turks, and Congolese. To be joined recently by Syrians, Afghans, and Iraqis to name a few. We still have our social programs and this without natural resources to speak of in-country. Nordic countries have lower population densities.
So what pray tell makes it impossible for the US to pursue similar policies that result in no student debt, a living wage for nearly everybody, and a health care system that gives access to high-level healthcare for its entire populace?
The citizenry as a whole would never go for that. Anyway, I’m parked for the night so another time.
“Access”? Who doesn’t have access?
Economic circumstances are a way more effective method in making certain services hard to get or even unattainable in some circumstances than a government run healthcare system can ever be.
Do hospitals refuse to treat emergencies?
And, are you saying that you support school choice?
I'm gonna give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you know that a decent healthcare system is about more than emergency care
As to me supporting school choice. I'm not saying I support it. I'm saying I have it. It does require a perquisite. A public transportation system both cheap and extensive. This in order to get the pupils to the classrooms if they live further away.
And, we all have choices, whether we choose to act is another question.
Nothing in life is free.
You will never hear me claim it is free. I pay a tax rate that would make an American blanch. On the other hand if you actually look at what my health care system costs out of pocket and in taxes I pay considerably less. And that money makes healthcare universal in my country.
What do you think is better? A healthcare system that insures everybody at a considerably lower cost at the expense of it being funded by taxes. Or a system that allows you freedom of choice in opting to insure yourself in needing medical care at some point in your life?
As to choice itself I'll argue that a choice between eating and making rent or taking out medical insurance is no choice at all.
Last edited:
You are right that one anecdotal case isn't necessarily indicative of the entire system but the fact that I have a close family member that had this happen to him seems to be a clear answer to what you asked right? Emergency care in the USA seemed to use a very narrow interpretation of the word emergency in his case. What if I told you that this simply doesn't happen in Belgium? I know this because emergency care here DOES take care of all injuries when you come into an emergency room. Even if you aren't insured.My God man, I don’t know all the particulars of your brothers case, but one anecdotal outcome is no where near indicative of an entire system.Very much depends on how you define emergency. If your definition is " a condition if left unattended could result in immediate death" than yes. If your definition is" a condition if left unattended will result in long term harm or death" than no. As happened to my brother in law who's shattered shoulder was not deemed life threatening and ended up going from a productive member of society to a person collecting a disability check.Those that aren't capable of affording it. In the case of healthcare. Those that aren't capable of moving to a good school district in the case of education.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Some facts then. The USA is the third-largest oil exporter and has the largest economy in the world. Nordic style countries which include almost the entirety of Europe and include Japan all have far-reaching social programs and have stable and prosperous societies. Some of those countries only have a few million people and some over fifty and in the case of Japan over a hundred million.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Do you know what you don't see? Larger countries being less successful in keeping those social programs viable. As to the US being more diverse. My country (Belgium) has large minorities that include Italians, Moroccans, Turks, and Congolese. To be joined recently by Syrians, Afghans, and Iraqis to name a few. We still have our social programs and this without natural resources to speak of in-country. Nordic countries have lower population densities.
So what pray tell makes it impossible for the US to pursue similar policies that result in no student debt, a living wage for nearly everybody, and a health care system that gives access to high-level healthcare for its entire populace?
The citizenry as a whole would never go for that. Anyway, I’m parked for the night so another time.I don't know about that. Demographics aren't on your side. As less and less of the electorate grew up during the cold war and more and more of them are minorities who grew up seeing the rich getting richer while the middle class shrunk. The idea that having access to health are and education is the road to Communism will become a harder and harder sell IMO.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Some facts then. The USA is the third-largest oil exporter and has the largest economy in the world. Nordic style countries which include almost the entirety of Europe and include Japan all have far-reaching social programs and have stable and prosperous societies. Some of those countries only have a few million people and some over fifty and in the case of Japan over a hundred million.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Do you know what you don't see? Larger countries being less successful in keeping those social programs viable. As to the US being more diverse. My country (Belgium) has large minorities that include Italians, Moroccans, Turks, and Congolese. To be joined recently by Syrians, Afghans, and Iraqis to name a few. We still have our social programs and this without natural resources to speak of in-country. Nordic countries have lower population densities.
So what pray tell makes it impossible for the US to pursue similar policies that result in no student debt, a living wage for nearly everybody, and a health care system that gives access to high-level healthcare for its entire populace?
The citizenry as a whole would never go for that. Anyway, I’m parked for the night so another time.
“Access”? Who doesn’t have access?
Economic circumstances are a way more effective method in making certain services hard to get or even unattainable in some circumstances than a government run healthcare system can ever be.
Do hospitals refuse to treat emergencies?
And, are you saying that you support school choice?
I'm gonna give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you know that a decent healthcare system is about more than emergency care
As to me supporting school choice. I'm not saying I support it. I'm saying I have it. It does require a perquisite. A public transportation system both cheap and extensive. This in order to get the pupils to the classrooms if they live further away.
And, we all have choices, whether we choose to act is another question.
Nothing in life is free.
You will never hear me claim it is free. I pay a tax rate that would make an American blanch. On the other hand if you actually look at what my health care system costs out of pocket and in taxes I pay considerably less. And that money makes healthcare universal in my country.
What do you think is better? A healthcare system that insures everybody at a considerably lower cost at the expense of it being funded by taxes. Or a system that allows you freedom of choice in opting to insure yourself in needing medical care at some point in your life?
As to choice itself I'll argue that a choice between eating and making rent or taking out medical insurance is no choice at all.
I'm glad you are happy with your system. You have no dog in our race.
The question here was never if I was happy with my system. The question was if Socialism as practiced in Nordic countries and indeed most of the Western world is a. superior and b. translatable. You are the one who made the choice of putting up a comparison between the US and Nordic countries. Something I feel I'm well placed to respond to.You are right that one anecdotal case isn't necessarily indicative of the entire system but the fact that I have a close family member that had this happen to him seems to be a clear answer to what you asked right? Emergency care in the USA seemed to use a very narrow interpretation of the word emergency in his case. What if I told you that this simply doesn't happen in Belgium? I know this because emergency care here DOES take care of all injuries when you come into an emergency room. Even if you aren't insured.My God man, I don’t know all the particulars of your brothers case, but one anecdotal outcome is no where near indicative of an entire system.Very much depends on how you define emergency. If your definition is " a condition if left unattended could result in immediate death" than yes. If your definition is" a condition if left unattended will result in long term harm or death" than no. As happened to my brother in law who's shattered shoulder was not deemed life threatening and ended up going from a productive member of society to a person collecting a disability check.Those that aren't capable of affording it. In the case of healthcare. Those that aren't capable of moving to a good school district in the case of education.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Some facts then. The USA is the third-largest oil exporter and has the largest economy in the world. Nordic style countries which include almost the entirety of Europe and include Japan all have far-reaching social programs and have stable and prosperous societies. Some of those countries only have a few million people and some over fifty and in the case of Japan over a hundred million.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Do you know what you don't see? Larger countries being less successful in keeping those social programs viable. As to the US being more diverse. My country (Belgium) has large minorities that include Italians, Moroccans, Turks, and Congolese. To be joined recently by Syrians, Afghans, and Iraqis to name a few. We still have our social programs and this without natural resources to speak of in-country. Nordic countries have lower population densities.
So what pray tell makes it impossible for the US to pursue similar policies that result in no student debt, a living wage for nearly everybody, and a health care system that gives access to high-level healthcare for its entire populace?
The citizenry as a whole would never go for that. Anyway, I’m parked for the night so another time.I don't know about that. Demographics aren't on your side. As less and less of the electorate grew up during the cold war and more and more of them are minorities who grew up seeing the rich getting richer while the middle class shrunk. The idea that having access to health are and education is the road to Communism will become a harder and harder sell IMO.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Some facts then. The USA is the third-largest oil exporter and has the largest economy in the world. Nordic style countries which include almost the entirety of Europe and include Japan all have far-reaching social programs and have stable and prosperous societies. Some of those countries only have a few million people and some over fifty and in the case of Japan over a hundred million.It is true that nordic countries have a market economy only more heavily regulated. On the other hand those are exactly the policies suggested by the people on the left like Sanders, Warren and the like. They don't advocate for the policies pursued by Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Yet they are routinely portrayed as extremists and Communists.What is required in America today for a person who wants to become a politician ?!
- he must be Jewish or black;
- he must say that he is religious;
- he must be homosexual or at least support LGBT, or he will not get support in Hollywood, Portland or New York;
- he should say that he hates "socialism" or "communism", either sincerely believing that it is BAD, or because he "plays by the rules" adopted in the American establishment, or believing that the split in society on the "poor" and "rich", a Platonic idea going back to the 5th century BC is NORMAL.
In this sense, Trump's speechwriters continue to insert criticism of socialism wherever they go, either because of their poor education at Chicago university or deliberately discrediting their patron to those who know the scientific definition of socialism.
So it was THIS time when the President ripped Biden as a “Trojan Horse” for socialism who would be led around by radicals like Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Home - Renewed Right
View attachment 376592
This is how Democrats are represented by their opponents
View attachment 376597
This is how socialism is portrayed by those who want Americans to believe that socialism is worse than COVID-19
View attachment 376598
This is how Obama's rule and politics are represented
ALTHOUGH ALL THREE cartoons are psychological sabotage aimed at DISCREDITING THE IDEA of socialism!
WHAT DO both Democrats and Republicans DON'T LIKE about the idea of socialism ???
This is that socialism preaches the idea of SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF HAPPINESS among all members of society!
In Their Own Words: Behind Americans’ Views of ‘Socialism’ and ‘Capitalism’
Socialism’s critics say it weakens work ethic; those with positive views say it fosters equality
For many Americans, “socialism” is a word that evokes a weakened work ethic, stifled innovation and excessive reliance on the government. For others, it represents a fairer, more generous society.
View attachment 376600
Critics of socialism point to Venezuela as an example of a country where it has failed.
People with positive views of socialism cite different countries, such as Finland and Denmark, as places where it has succeeded.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
Many with positive views of socialism say it fosters equality
A smaller share of Americans who have a positive view of socialism say it would build upon and improve capitalism (20%). Some in this group say the U.S. already has socialism, in the form of government programs. Others specifically say they prefer a blend of socialism and capitalism. “A blend can ensure a thriving productive society for all,” said a 42-year-old woman.
Just 2% of those who have a positive view of socialism explicitly mention the phrase “democratic socialism” as the reason.
While some who express a negative view of socialism link it with countries like Venezuela, some of those with a positive view point to different countries – such as Denmark or Finland – as models. Among those with a positive impression, 6% say it has been a historical or comparative success, with most of these people citing how it has worked in European countries.
“Capitalism is the worst way to set up a society, except for all the other ways,” said a 44-year-old man. “Free markets allow for more innovative solutions and for more people to succeed.”
When those who hold negative views of capitalism are asked why they hold this view, about a quarter (23%) say that capitalism creates an unfair economic structure, mentioning that the system only benefits a small number of people or that wealth in this country is distributed poorly.
A similar share (20%) says that capitalism has an exploitative and corrupt nature, often hurting either people or the environment.
A smaller share of Americans who have negative views of capitalism (8%) mention that corporations and wealthy people undermine the democratic process by having too much power in political matters. And 4% of those with a negative view say that capitalism can work, but to do so it needs better oversight and regulation.
View attachment 376602
Ok, so maybe I am reading it wrong but, you are telling us that we just don't understand Socialism, and something about a scientific explanation of Socialism, but you don't provide this so called 'Scientific explanation'... Why?
Then you commit the same mistake that Bernie makes in telling us that Nordic countries as Socialist countries as a positive model when clearly they are NOT Socialist at all....
Consider:
"One hears too often that Nordic economies (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are based on socialist systems with sky-high taxation that are void of opportunities for entrepreneurial individuals.
The latest case occurred when Fox Business host Trish Regan compared Denmark to Venezuela, and in the face of Danish backlash, she admitted that the comparison was unfair, but that socialism is not the way forward for the U.S.
A big part of the Danish backlash was to say that Denmark is by many metrics a very market-oriented country. All Nordic countries are very high on World Economic Forum indicators on competitiveness and innovation, and they all are also high on the World Bank Doing Business indicator.
Their employment rates are generally higher than the U.S., and while GDP per capita may be lower on average, Nordic people are the happiest bunch of people on Earth if you look at almost any relevant study on happiness."
snip
" Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. "
snip
" Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model "
Nordic nations are not socialist; they’re free-trade lovers
Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms.
and this:
"
Sweden stood as the world’s fourth wealthiest country nearly five decades ago. Its taxes were lower than most western countries, including the United States. The economy was deregulated, and public spending was hardly above 10 percent gross domestic product (GDP).
But Sweden was soon teetering on the brink of collapse from its experiment with socialism.
“Free markets and small government made Sweden rich,” said Swedish economist and Cato Institute fellow Johan Norberg. “The experiment with socialism crashed us.”
Socialism Didn’t Work In Sweden, And It Won’t Work In America
Bernie Sanders and AOC point to the brief window of Swedish socialism’s artificial success before Sweden crumbled under its reality.
It's an inherently dishonest argument by those on the right not to mention schizophrenic. On the one hand those suggesting following the policies of Nordic countries are portrayed as extremists and Communists. But when faced by the fact that those policies make a better society people like you are quick to point out that those countries have capitalism.
Yeah, I know, facts suck...Look, Nordic style heavy taxation, and far reaching social programs may work fine for small countries with vast oil wealth, however it’s a different story for a diversified large country like the United States.
Do you know what you don't see? Larger countries being less successful in keeping those social programs viable. As to the US being more diverse. My country (Belgium) has large minorities that include Italians, Moroccans, Turks, and Congolese. To be joined recently by Syrians, Afghans, and Iraqis to name a few. We still have our social programs and this without natural resources to speak of in-country. Nordic countries have lower population densities.
So what pray tell makes it impossible for the US to pursue similar policies that result in no student debt, a living wage for nearly everybody, and a health care system that gives access to high-level healthcare for its entire populace?
The citizenry as a whole would never go for that. Anyway, I’m parked for the night so another time.
“Access”? Who doesn’t have access?
Economic circumstances are a way more effective method in making certain services hard to get or even unattainable in some circumstances than a government run healthcare system can ever be.
Do hospitals refuse to treat emergencies?
And, are you saying that you support school choice?
I'm gonna give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you know that a decent healthcare system is about more than emergency care
As to me supporting school choice. I'm not saying I support it. I'm saying I have it. It does require a perquisite. A public transportation system both cheap and extensive. This in order to get the pupils to the classrooms if they live further away.
And, we all have choices, whether we choose to act is another question.
Nothing in life is free.
You will never hear me claim it is free. I pay a tax rate that would make an American blanch. On the other hand if you actually look at what my health care system costs out of pocket and in taxes I pay considerably less. And that money makes healthcare universal in my country.
What do you think is better? A healthcare system that insures everybody at a considerably lower cost at the expense of it being funded by taxes. Or a system that allows you freedom of choice in opting to insure yourself in needing medical care at some point in your life?
As to choice itself I'll argue that a choice between eating and making rent or taking out medical insurance is no choice at all.
I'm glad you are happy with your system. You have no dog in our race.
As to my bone in the race. The person who becomes the president of the United States has a profound impact on the rest of the world so I do have a big general bone in this race. I also have a personal bone in the fact that my wife is American and my daughter has dual citizenship. At some point in her life, she might want to live in the US. The America she will then move too is of interest to me.
So far J-Mac I have enjoyed our conversation. You are both respectful and seemingly at least somewhat open to having an actual conversation. That's why your last post is disappointing. I've had this conversation with many conservative on this board. What I always encounter when asked to compare the US system to that in my country is that they break off the conversation, get mad or deflect. Please don't be one of those.
Similar threads
