Why are Republicans in favor of torture?

Psychoblues

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2003
2,701
142
48
North Missisippi
Give a good read to this, my friends.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22201&page=1&pp=15

As far as the last response there, from GunnyL, is concerned, here it is. I hope you all have calculators and memories and a desire to read the above referenced thread.


"Let's see, you aren't picking on me; yet, you question just about everything about me from my education to my combat experience. Your eloquence doesn't hide your condescending attitude, and you can trust me, it IS unwarranted.

You also went through a long, drawn-out story of NOT saying just how you managed 40 years of service.

The bad news for your snap assessment is that I HAVE been in combat, and my seniors did not question my intelligence, judgement, leaderships skills, morals, my technical proficiency, nor generally anything but my serious lack of tact.

While I could never have enough education, I have enough to get me by in this life if I choose to not pursue it. You however, are seriously lacking in a good dose of REALITY.

Your holier-than-thou idealism just gets people killed. Simple as that. You hamstring OUR troops with your lofty rules. If the enemy isn't expoliting them, they're sneering at them.

Superpower? You sling that word like it's supposed to mean something. We're only super when we start dropping nukes. Otherwise, it's still our army against a bunch of murdering scumbag terrorists who should be hunted down like the dogs they are and hurried on their way to Allah.

Since you claim to be a Vietnam vet, I would think that you would have learned fighting an unconventional war with conventional forces isn't the ideal way to get the trophy, now is it?"


No, I don't doubt your education, GunnyL. I made an observation of your attitude and I somehow attribute it to a faulty, in my own opinion and as a decorated veteran myself, educational system. I don't doubt your combat experience either. From reading your own statements concerning combat related events, I doubt that you ever caught on to the fact that as Americans we are actually bigger than torture, although it still happens within our forces, murder, although you might call it collateral damage or lies, as they are used by politicians to promote military interventionism that they find useful to their own designs. I could go on and on here, but I think,hope, you get my point.

I've given several fairly detailed desciptions of my military service, none of which total 40 years (that's a distraction used by a few of the posters here that have no idea) in this USMessage Board forum. It's a sham created by whom? I really don't know and I really don't give a heck. Do your own research.

I'm sure your seniors did all that you say. Mine did as well at least as far as my missions were concerned. And yes, like me, you have a lack of tact. Coupled with your parroting of false claims it doesn't take much to realize that your credibility is around zero.

It's not my fault that you have not pursued education, and I agree that you have enough to get you by in this life. I could've done better and still can. And I do better whenever and wherever I get the chance. I continue to believe that both of us are not "all-knowing".

Where do you get the "holier-than-thou" idealism thing? From what source did that parroting come from? I'm no better or worse than you. But I am your equal, under the laws of God and under the laws of this nation. You might want to quarrel with that. That's your right, but is it right?

Superpower? I ain't going into this with you at this time. Your comments are evidence enough that you have no idea as to the superiority of American Forces and what that might mean from an international standpoint. Rome had the same thoughts, as did Genghis Khan, and Hitler, and a few thousand more historical world domination inspired. Historically, WAR is a loser everytime, eventually. War leads to other wars. Damn, I'm on a history lesson again and you told me that you already knew, I apologize for my indulgence.

Yes, I claim to be a Viet Nam Vet because I am a Viet Nam Vet. I also claim to be damn proud of my service. And I also reserve the right to voice my opinions and cast an honest vote for whomever I choose to have earned it. And I'll go a little further, I earned my rights the hard way and I have little respect for those that avoid and continue to avoid service to their country and the American way of life that I have many times placed in jeapardy my own life to protect. I wasn't simply born with any rights, or so I was taught. But as an American, I did my best to protect the rights of humankind and those of my countrymen as well as my own AS AN AMERICAN. GOD didn't send me to war. America did. Maybe that's where we differ?

Psychoblues
 
Running gun battle between Gunny and Psycho aside....

I often hear that NO war is justified or as Psycho puts it "war is a loser everytime". That raises the question (in my mind at least) what would those who make such statements have done about Hitler/Ghengis Khan et al??? Obviously appeasement and diplomacy did not work in the case of WW II and Hitler. So what (hypothetically speaking) would have prevented WW II? In reply, please try to refrain from hindsight, i.e. dont tell me the Treaty of Versaille should never have happened....it did....so go from there.
 
CSM said:
Running gun battle between Gunny and Psycho aside....

I often hear that NO war is justified or as Psycho puts it "war is a loser everytime". That raises the question (in my mind at least) what would those who make such statements have done about Hitler/Ghengis Khan et al??? Obviously appeasement and diplomacy did not work in the case of WW II and Hitler. So what (hypothetically speaking) would have prevented WW II? In reply, please try to refrain from hindsight, i.e. dont tell me the Treaty of Versaille should never have happened....it did....so go from there.

OK, so where do you draw the parallels between Hitler, World War II and Ghengis Khan? I draw them at world domination aspirations, period. I suppose you have other parallels that you would be kind enough to share?

I have no running gun battle with Gunny, CSM, but if you insist, fire your best shots.

Psychoblues
 
Psychoblues said:
OK, so where do you draw the parallels between Hitler, World War II and Ghengis Khan? I draw them at world domination aspirations, period. I suppose you have other parallels that you would be kind enough to share?

I have no running gun battle with Gunny, CSM, but if you insist, fire your best shots.

Psychoblues

Ok it is obvious you are just looking for a fight. I was seriously asking what does one do about those with "world domination aspirations" as you put it once their intentions become clear.....

As for my kindness....I have none. As for firing a shot...why should I waste my ammo on the likes of you?
 
Psychoblues said:
OK, so where do you draw the parallels between Hitler, World War II and Ghengis Khan? I draw them at world domination aspirations, period. I suppose you have other parallels that you would be kind enough to share?

I have no running gun battle with Gunny, CSM, but if you insist, fire your best shots.

Psychoblues
I'd say chalk that up as a non-answer, CSM. Surprise!
 
Mr. P said:
I'd say chalk that up as a non-answer, CSM. Surprise!
Not surprised at all. Typical post from a troll...try to overwhelm us with arrogance and their self perceived higher intelligence. When pressed, they dissapate like so much fog in bright sunshine....no substance at all.
 
I don't see where anything you said in your opening post even pertains to torture.

If you want a battle with people, cool.

But here is a question. I don't know if you are married..or kids.....so let's assume you have a child.

Heaven forbid, someone kidnaps your child. He/She is buried with a limited amount of oxygen. The authorities have caught the person responsible but he/she is not cooperating.

Time is running out.

Is there anything you would NOT allow the authorities to do to find out where your child is?

Let's add to this....suppose the "bad guy" was Muslim. Would you tell the authorities to do anything they wanted except something disrespectful to his religion (a la' Gitmo)?

I have a feeling you would be right next him, pulling his fingernails out one by one......
 
GotZoom said:
I don't see where anything you said in your opening post even pertains to torture.

If you want a battle with people, cool.

But here is a question. I don't know if you are married..or kids.....so let's assume you have a child.

Heaven forbid, someone kidnaps your child. He/She is buried with a limited amount of oxygen. The authorities have caught the person responsible but he/she is not cooperating.

Time is running out.

Is there anything you would NOT allow the authorities to do to find out where your child is?

Let's add to this....suppose the "bad guy" was Muslim. Would you tell the authorities to do anything they wanted except something disrespectful to his religion (a la' Gitmo)?

I have a feeling you would be right next him, pulling his fingernails out one by one......
Clearly he/she would make every attempt to 'understand' why they took his child. I mean, in order to solve the crisis, he'd have to know the perspective the kidnappers hold against him. It's only by coming to the global table of LOVE and PEACE that the poor victimized kidnappers would be able to share their issues, and receive affirmation.

:-/

I HATE People sometimes..

My prayer:
My God...what are your people becoming?
 
Psycho smacks of Lt Kerry...I respect his limited combat service and rank..but by no means the man he has become...end of story! :2guns:
 
Psychoblues said:
Give a good read to this, my friends.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22201&page=1&pp=15

As far as the last response there, from GunnyL, is concerned, here it is. I hope you all have calculators and memories and a desire to read the above referenced thread.


"Let's see, you aren't picking on me; yet, you question just about everything about me from my education to my combat experience. Your eloquence doesn't hide your condescending attitude, and you can trust me, it IS unwarranted.

You also went through a long, drawn-out story of NOT saying just how you managed 40 years of service.

The bad news for your snap assessment is that I HAVE been in combat, and my seniors did not question my intelligence, judgement, leaderships skills, morals, my technical proficiency, nor generally anything but my serious lack of tact.

While I could never have enough education, I have enough to get me by in this life if I choose to not pursue it. You however, are seriously lacking in a good dose of REALITY.

Your holier-than-thou idealism just gets people killed. Simple as that. You hamstring OUR troops with your lofty rules. If the enemy isn't expoliting them, they're sneering at them.

Superpower? You sling that word like it's supposed to mean something. We're only super when we start dropping nukes. Otherwise, it's still our army against a bunch of murdering scumbag terrorists who should be hunted down like the dogs they are and hurried on their way to Allah.

Since you claim to be a Vietnam vet, I would think that you would have learned fighting an unconventional war with conventional forces isn't the ideal way to get the trophy, now is it?"


No, I don't doubt your education, GunnyL. I made an observation of your attitude and I somehow attribute it to a faulty, in my own opinion and as a decorated veteran myself, educational system. I don't doubt your combat experience either. From reading your own statements concerning combat related events, I doubt that you ever caught on to the fact that as Americans we are actually bigger than torture, although it still happens within our forces, murder, although you might call it collateral damage or lies, as they are used by politicians to promote military interventionism that they find useful to their own designs. I could go on and on here, but I think,hope, you get my point.

I've given several fairly detailed desciptions of my military service, none of which total 40 years (that's a distraction used by a few of the posters here that have no idea) in this USMessage Board forum. It's a sham created by whom? I really don't know and I really don't give a heck. Do your own research.

I'm sure your seniors did all that you say. Mine did as well at least as far as my missions were concerned. And yes, like me, you have a lack of tact. Coupled with your parroting of false claims it doesn't take much to realize that your credibility is around zero.

It's not my fault that you have not pursued education, and I agree that you have enough to get you by in this life. I could've done better and still can. And I do better whenever and wherever I get the chance. I continue to believe that both of us are not "all-knowing".

Where do you get the "holier-than-thou" idealism thing? From what source did that parroting come from? I'm no better or worse than you. But I am your equal, under the laws of God and under the laws of this nation. You might want to quarrel with that. That's your right, but is it right?

Superpower? I ain't going into this with you at this time. Your comments are evidence enough that you have no idea as to the superiority of American Forces and what that might mean from an international standpoint. Rome had the same thoughts, as did Genghis Khan, and Hitler, and a few thousand more historical world domination inspired. Historically, WAR is a loser everytime, eventually. War leads to other wars. Damn, I'm on a history lesson again and you told me that you already knew, I apologize for my indulgence.

Yes, I claim to be a Viet Nam Vet because I am a Viet Nam Vet. I also claim to be damn proud of my service. And I also reserve the right to voice my opinions and cast an honest vote for whomever I choose to have earned it. And I'll go a little further, I earned my rights the hard way and I have little respect for those that avoid and continue to avoid service to their country and the American way of life that I have many times placed in jeapardy my own life to protect. I wasn't simply born with any rights, or so I was taught. But as an American, I did my best to protect the rights of humankind and those of my countrymen as well as my own AS AN AMERICAN. GOD didn't send me to war. America did. Maybe that's where we differ?

Psychoblues

I have to agree with CSM. This is nothing but a personal attack, and it's based on little more than assumption/conjecture. The more you post and reveal yourself, the more I am convinced you are the fraud others have said you are.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it becomes worthless the very second you believe you are better than someone else for a differing opinion you disagree with. And that's is ALL you have posted. Your opinion and your misguided beliefs. It is those very misguided beliefs that have given rise to questioning your service.

If there is some point you are trying to make other than preaching your personal ideology based on Superman comic books, make it. If all you are about is running off at the mouth trying to impress anyone with what-all you claimed to have done, don't bother.

Personally, I find your ideology ridiculous, and not indicative of any hint of your being conscious of the reality we live in, nor the reality of humping a weapon in combat. And I'm done giving you the benefit of doubt when all you want to do is insult.

From this point forward, you get what you give.

btw .... The US sent me to war, and God brought me back. Thanks for asking.
 
GunnyL said:
I have to agree with CSM. This is nothing but a personal attack, and it's based on little more than assumption/conjecture. The more you post and reveal yourself, the more I am convinced you are the fraud others have said you are.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it becomes worthless the very second you believe you are better than someone else for a differing opinion you disagree with. And that's is ALL you have posted. Your opinion and your misguided beliefs. It is those very misguided beliefs that have given rise to questioning your service.

If there is some point you are trying to make other than preaching your personal ideology based on Superman comic books, make it. If all you are about is running off at the mouth trying to impress anyone with what-all you claimed to have done, don't bother.

Personally, I find your ideology ridiculous, and not indicative of any hint of your being conscious of the reality we live in, nor the reality of humping a weapon in combat. And I'm done giving you the benefit of doubt when all you want to do is insult.

From this point forward, you get what you give.

GunnyL, I can damn sure take what I give and I receive it well. Yours is an answer and a perspective that I at least believe to be honest. As you said in an earlier post, you lack tact and I agreed that I do as well. But I know an appeal for dialogue and you've demonstrated an honest one.

I've been through a lot, GunnyL. In WAR and right here in this place that calls itself the "USMessageboard." I've caught a lot of hell in War and in here. But I think we might can talk, you and I. I sincerely apologize for my admittingly condescending tone and I promise that I won't use that tone again, at least as far as you are concerned. I think you've been through a lot as well and I empathize the predicament WE find ourselves.

I'm not going to bore you with war stories or share explicit details of operations here. But I do want to share with you, as an American with rights as GREAT as your own, and I really don't consider my rights as somehow subverting yours as is often alluded in here, the story of DEMOCRACY and how it relates to this REPUBLIC that we call the United States of America. That is what I came to this place to do. I was immediately discounted as some kind of nut or perverse and even worse. It seems to me that a Party affilliation is more important here than a national committment. I hope your opinion is more broad than that.

Psychoblues
 
CSM said:
As for my kindness....I have none. As for firing a shot...why should I waste my ammo on the likes of you?

Especially when a knife is just as deadly.
 
Avatar4321 said:
Especially when a knife is just as deadly.

I can certainly dig that, Avatar4321, but political propaganda has murdered or at least caused many more deaths. I would submit that more innocents die in warfare than acual political/military combatants. By knife or by rifle projectile or any other reason, it's a sad, sad state of affairs within such an enlightened society as we claim as our own. Don't you think?

9-11 left us no option but a warfare of some kind. We did our best in Afganistan, towards the Taliban and al Queda and we are still working there and even wordwide in that particular war. Many of the enemy combatants and their more recent recruits have migrated to Iraq because that's where the Americans are. I would also submit that absense our presense in Iraq there would be far fewer recruits and the focus would have remained towards those that attacked us on 9-11. Iraq was chosen as a battleground, despite any evidense whatsoever that they supported or harbored either Taliban or al Queda militants. But the lies are told and repeated over and over again by political/military propagandists that have something to gain by a continued war in Iraq.

Despite what you might believe about me, Avatar4321, I am not anti-war to the extent of passive self-annilation. I am anti-war to the extent that I believe most wars are unnecessary, murderous and could be solved legally, politically or in some other way less violent. I repeat, 9-11 required military reaction for which I completely supported and continue to support.

Psychoblues
 

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