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Who did what?

grunt11b

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I dare the left to dispute these facts, and do so with proof, not retarded leftwing rhetoric.
I give thee.......how shit really happened!!!!

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blcC_kCnf8U]Shocking Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Coveri - YouTube[/ame]
Wow, The gop wanting to regulate a bloated Democrat program while the Dems push very hard back. Wonder who is to blame for the housing crisis that started the recession of 2008?

Democrats as far as the constitution goes and controlling the people. Also note that Bill Mahrer says we are not bright enough to understand the issues, he is the typical elitist, dumber than a box of rocks and more than willing to suck black balls.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPBNBRnJeJg]Control the People! - YouTube[/ame]

Rahm Emmanual, gotta love that guy right lefties? He is just the beginning of this one.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIm6LCeBpSM]Election 2010 - Democrats in their own words - part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

Is this what you want liberals? Do you want a bureaucracy controlling the power to your car? The power to your home? Your every waking second? When will you stand by the rest of us and let it end?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3I-PVVowFY]Maxine Waters (D) Slip of the Tongue Reveals True Intentions (Socialism for America) - YouTube[/ame]

And for my grand fanally*sp it's not just the Dems fault, it's both sides, you morons.
Barrack Obama came along just at the right time to trick all of you. You have been fooled, dont say shit if you dont watch the below film in it's fullness, because if you dont you have no right to. This is us against them, not left vs right, but the people vs washington.

Pay attention America, Pay the fuck attention!!!!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw]The Obama Deception HQ Full length version - YouTube[/ame]
 
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editec

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Yeah right...we're going to sit through video after video to find out what the point of this thead is.
 
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Haven't watched the clips, but I'm pretty sure I already know what they say. And - working on that assumption - it's hard to dispute the facts of what happened.

Having said that, it would be remarkably easy to put up an equal number of clips showing the equally shameful behavior from the Republicans.

Both parties worked very hard to destroy this country's economy. And both parties should be held accountable. The shame of it is that posters on both sides are too damned partisan to do so. Have some spine - hold your own parties accountable.
 

The Rabbi

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Haven't watched the clips, but I'm pretty sure I already know what they say. And - working on that assumption - it's hard to dispute the facts of what happened.

Having said that, it would be remarkably easy to put up an equal number of clips showing the equally shameful behavior from the Republicans.

Both parties worked very hard to destroy this country's economy. And both parties should be held accountable. The shame of it is that posters on both sides are too damned partisan to do so. Have some spine - hold your own parties accountable.

I disagree on this. The Dems were largely responsible for lack of oversight on Fannie/Freddie. The Wall St Journal rann editorials on this lack of transparancy with Freddie probably 2 years before the crisis.
The GOP is not blameless in the economic debacle (Bush appointed Bernanke) but on Fan/Fred the fault is entirely with the Dums.
 
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Haven't watched the clips, but I'm pretty sure I already know what they say. And - working on that assumption - it's hard to dispute the facts of what happened.

Having said that, it would be remarkably easy to put up an equal number of clips showing the equally shameful behavior from the Republicans.

Both parties worked very hard to destroy this country's economy. And both parties should be held accountable. The shame of it is that posters on both sides are too damned partisan to do so. Have some spine - hold your own parties accountable.

I disagree on this. The Dems were largely responsible for lack of oversight on Fannie/Freddie. The Wall St Journal rann editorials on this lack of transparancy with Freddie probably 2 years before the crisis.
The GOP is not blameless in the economic debacle (Bush appointed Bernanke) but on Fan/Fred the fault is entirely with the Dums.

True. They absolutely shoulder the majority of 'blame' for Fannie/Freddie. But, guess what, that was only partially responsible for the current clusterfuck. It took a concerted effort - by both parties (and a whole bunch of other greedy corrupt bastards) to get us to where we are.

In order to understand why we are here, how it happened and why.... people need to stop looking at parts of the issue and put all the pieces into the jigsaw. Why are people too scared to do that?
 

jillian

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True. They absolutely shoulder the majority of 'blame' for Fannie/Freddie. But, guess what, that was only partially responsible for the current clusterfuck. It took a concerted effort - by both parties (and a whole bunch of other greedy corrupt bastards) to get us to where we are.

In order to understand why we are here, how it happened and why.... people need to stop looking at parts of the issue and put all the pieces into the jigsaw. Why are people too scared to do that?

fannie/freddie was bad but it was the least of it. deregulation and a refusal to enforce existing regulations was by far.. the larger part of it. and, frankly, cutting taxes during wartime for the first time in recorded history is a far greater problem and the refusal to fix that is the largest obstacle to getting our house back in order now.
 

The Rabbi

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True. They absolutely shoulder the majority of 'blame' for Fannie/Freddie. But, guess what, that was only partially responsible for the current clusterfuck. It took a concerted effort - by both parties (and a whole bunch of other greedy corrupt bastards) to get us to where we are.

In order to understand why we are here, how it happened and why.... people need to stop looking at parts of the issue and put all the pieces into the jigsaw. Why are people too scared to do that?

fannie/freddie was bad but it was the least of it. deregulation and a refusal to enforce existing regulations was by far.. the larger part of it. and, frankly, cutting taxes during wartime for the first time in recorded history is a far greater problem and the refusal to fix that is the largest obstacle to getting our house back in order now.

Could you cite which deregulation and refusal to enforce existing regs caused what.
The debt to gdp was just fine during Bush's administration. It wasn't an issue until Obama doubled down on stupid and boosted spending in a recession, causing an unprecedented downgrade in our credit rating.

Of course I will get no response because you are unable to defend your views.
 
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True. They absolutely shoulder the majority of 'blame' for Fannie/Freddie. But, guess what, that was only partially responsible for the current clusterfuck. It took a concerted effort - by both parties (and a whole bunch of other greedy corrupt bastards) to get us to where we are.

In order to understand why we are here, how it happened and why.... people need to stop looking at parts of the issue and put all the pieces into the jigsaw. Why are people too scared to do that?

fannie/freddie was bad but it was the least of it. deregulation and a refusal to enforce existing regulations was by far.. the larger part of it. and, frankly, cutting taxes during wartime for the first time in recorded history is a far greater problem and the refusal to fix that is the largest obstacle to getting our house back in order now.

As I said, Fannie/Freddie alone would not have collapsed the economy. That took really bad decisions from both sides, and some pretty damned atrocious bi-partisan screw ups... along with with some horrifically bad business within the banking industry, out of control greed from unions, and some generally stupid behavior by Americans to drag us down into this abyss.

Truthfully, we should focus on who and how can we fix it instead of bitching about the other party. My opinion, which is based on a decent understanding of economics, is that austerity is the only way to build a sustainable, long term fix. These quick fixes - temporary job boosts might be popular - but they create a fake recovery and we will have to pay the piper later for it. I personally think we would be better off to pay it now. And, yea, that is unpopular and will be incredibly hard on most of us.
 

jillian

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True. They absolutely shoulder the majority of 'blame' for Fannie/Freddie. But, guess what, that was only partially responsible for the current clusterfuck. It took a concerted effort - by both parties (and a whole bunch of other greedy corrupt bastards) to get us to where we are.

In order to understand why we are here, how it happened and why.... people need to stop looking at parts of the issue and put all the pieces into the jigsaw. Why are people too scared to do that?

fannie/freddie was bad but it was the least of it. deregulation and a refusal to enforce existing regulations was by far.. the larger part of it. and, frankly, cutting taxes during wartime for the first time in recorded history is a far greater problem and the refusal to fix that is the largest obstacle to getting our house back in order now.

As I said, Fannie/Freddie alone would not have collapsed the economy. That took really bad decisions from both sides, and some pretty damned atrocious bi-partisan screw ups... along with with some horrifically bad business within the banking industry, out of control greed from unions, and some generally stupid behavior by Americans to drag us down into this abyss.

Truthfully, we should focus on who and how can we fix it instead of bitching about the other party. My opinion, which is based on a decent understanding of economics, is that austerity is the only way to build a sustainable, long term fix. These quick fixes - temporary job boosts might be popular - but they create a fake recovery and we will have to pay the piper later for it. I personally think we would be better off to pay it now. And, yea, that is unpopular and will be incredibly hard on most of us.


the bolded part... yep.

but the problem is too many people play politics with our economy. and for at least some, it behooves them for things not to improve before november 2012.

(i disagree with your solution, too, but i figure that i'd stick with what we can agree on).
 

editec

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There ARE times when it is best to take"the hit" now.

And then too there are hits that kill you, and finding some way to avoid them, even if that means that you might suffer later is the right move.

FOR INSTANCE, bailing out the banksters (something I frequently complain about) WAS the RIGHT MOVE. (Its the details of how it was done that I object to).

But we are now already suffering the consequences of making that hard but correct decision.

For instance, we end up creating a MORAL HAZARD for the banksters since they did not suffer the full effects of their screwup.

So, if history is any guide, it is likely they will screw up again.
 
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There ARE times when it is best to take"the hit" now.

And then too there are hits that kill you, and finding some way to avoid them, even if that means that you might suffer later is the right move.

FOR INSTANCE, bailing out the banksters (something I frequently complain about) WAS the RIGHT MOVE. (Its the details of how it was done that I object to).

But we are now already suffering the consequences of making that hard but correct decision.

For instance, we end up creating a MORAL HAZARD for the banksters since they did not suffer the full effects of their screwup.

So, if history is any guide, it is likely they will screw up again.

I agree... I too supported (no matter how unpalatable) the bank bailouts. It make economic sense - the alternative was that millions more Americans would have suffered beyond belief if the banks went belly up.
 

editec

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There ARE times when it is best to take"the hit" now.

And then too there are hits that kill you, and finding some way to avoid them, even if that means that you might suffer later is the right move.

FOR INSTANCE, bailing out the banksters (something I frequently complain about) WAS the RIGHT MOVE. (Its the details of how it was done that I object to).

But we are now already suffering the consequences of making that hard but correct decision.

For instance, we end up creating a MORAL HAZARD for the banksters since they did not suffer the full effects of their screwup.

So, if history is any guide, it is likely they will screw up again.

I agree... I too supported (no matter how unpalatable) the bank bailouts. It make economic sense - the alternative was that millions more Americans would have suffered beyond belief if the banks went belly up.

This is actually one of the debates I frequently have with me REAL leftist chums.

They, much like so many of this board's right wingers, don't understand the real nature of the GREAT unraveling that the boys in the FED and Treasury were facing if they did NOTHING.

They cannot BELIEVE that every bank in the freaking world (a bit of an exaggeration but not byu much) would have gone BELLY UP if they hadn't TARPED the banks back into loquiidity.

Where I differ from the current leadership is in DETAIL.

For instance AIG ought to have gone into recievership instead of the USA overpaying for 80% of it.

Right now, for another huge example, the USA taxpayer ought to OWN many of the banks we BAILED out.

That would have been the CAPITALIST solution rather than what we did --the socialism for the RICH solution.

These banks that we bailed out had NO VALUE until we promised to cover their TROUBLED ASSETS.

Their assets were worthless UNLESS we promised to cover their shortfalls.

The REAL CAPITALIST solution the US government would have BOUGHT those banks (at their current value which was VERY LOW) AND THEN saved them.

And, as those banks evolved back to liquid solvency, then the USA taxpayers could have slowly sold off those assets.

Much like we plan to do with GM stock we the taxpayers OVERPAID for.
 

The Rabbi

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fannie/freddie was bad but it was the least of it. deregulation and a refusal to enforce existing regulations was by far.. the larger part of it. and, frankly, cutting taxes during wartime for the first time in recorded history is a far greater problem and the refusal to fix that is the largest obstacle to getting our house back in order now.

Could you cite which deregulation and refusal to enforce existing regs caused what.
The debt to gdp was just fine during Bush's administration. It wasn't an issue until Obama doubled down on stupid and boosted spending in a recession, causing an unprecedented downgrade in our credit rating.

Of course I will get no response because you are unable to defend your views.

Awe rabbi is trying cherry pick again.
Youve already had articles posted for you on this.
So stop being a hack.

IOW you cannot make a case. No surprise there.
Typically I hear, BUsh deregulated the mortgage industry. When pressed, there is no evidence Bush deregulated the mortgage industry. The industry itself adopted loan standards that were much lower than they had been. In the face of rising property values it wasn't a totally illogical thing to do.
Then I hear "It was the repeal of Glass Steagal." When I query how the repeal of something in 1999 by Bill Clinton could account for a meltdown nearly 10 years later I get crickets.

But you would figure that let's say Bush was evil and allowed rampant capitalism (halevai), surely Obama with his supermajorities in Congress would have easily been able to reverse all those bad moves and bring the economy back. Right? But that isn't what happened.
 

Truthmatters

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Its propaganda

They just repete it to themsselves over and over until they believe it.

Then they wonder why others bother with all those other messy facts and reality.
 

Full-Auto

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Its propaganda

They just repete it to themsselves over and over until they believe it.

Then they wonder why others bother with all those other messy facts and reality.

Then post your utube clips blowhard!!!!
 

The Rabbi

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Rabbi we have been over this already. Im not rehashing because all hou have is the.same.circle logic each time. Ive watched numerous people answer you and you just keep on punting.to.the.next issue.

You offer nothing new or worthwhile to this topic.

Translation: I cannot make the case.
Hey, Scumball. Zero times whatever is still zero. It doesn't matter how many times you or anyone else posts untrue "facts." Merely repeating them does not prove anything.
 

8537

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Republicans controlled the House, the Senate and the Executive branch as well as every committee in both houses.

And FM/FM's share of the subprime market was in steep decline during the period because they were losing market share to the private sector entitities willing to bundle nonconforming loans that FM couldn't touch.

But somehow, it's all the fault of Dems and the GSE's.
 

8537

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True. They absolutely shoulder the majority of 'blame' for Fannie/Freddie. But, guess what, that was only partially responsible for the current clusterfuck. It took a concerted effort - by both parties (and a whole bunch of other greedy corrupt bastards) to get us to where we are.

In order to understand why we are here, how it happened and why.... people need to stop looking at parts of the issue and put all the pieces into the jigsaw. Why are people too scared to do that?

fannie/freddie was bad but it was the least of it. deregulation and a refusal to enforce existing regulations was by far.. the larger part of it. and, frankly, cutting taxes during wartime for the first time in recorded history is a far greater problem and the refusal to fix that is the largest obstacle to getting our house back in order now.

Could you cite which deregulation and refusal to enforce existing regs caused what.
.

Cutting the net capital rule in half for the five largest financial institutions sure as hell didn't help.
 

Full-Auto

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Republicans controlled the House, the Senate and the Executive branch as well as every committee in both houses.

And FM/FM's share of the subprime market was in steep decline during the period because they were losing market share to the private sector entitities willing to bundle nonconforming loans that FM couldn't touch.

But somehow, it's all the fault of Dems and the GSE's.

It comes down to who or which side opened the door.

Cuomo had some interesting remarks while working for Bill. In fact he boasted the achievements.
 

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