Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore,

Oh come on...

P F Tinmore, et al,

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.

Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.

Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.

Interesting legal concept.

(COMMENT)

Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.

• TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
Volume 2042, 1-35325 UN Treaty Collection.

• TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
No. 17813 United Nations — Treaty Series •
​

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement." Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict. They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.

The UN calls Israel, (wait for it) "Israel." UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).

• 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.

Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:

• Palestine Order in Council:

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
​

• UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:

Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​

Most Respectfully,
R

You are ducking my post.

(COMMENT)

I didn't "duck" anything.

Most Respectfully,
R

You post a link without reading it or at least not conveying what it said in reference to my post.

(COMMENT)

You said:

• Israel claims borders...

A: I gave you the latest treaties with the International Borders.​

• Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements...

A: I gave you the UN Treaty Collection Registry data.​

• Israel claims on land that the UN calls Palestine...

A: I gave you the record on the name assigned in the International system.​

I just assume that anyone who read your comment and mine, would be able to deduce this. I'll have to be more careful in future.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore,

Oh come on...

P F Tinmore, et al,

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.

Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.

Interesting legal concept.

(COMMENT)

Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.

• TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
Volume 2042, 1-35325 UN Treaty Collection.

• TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
No. 17813 United Nations — Treaty Series •
​

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement." Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict. They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.

The UN calls Israel, (wait for it) "Israel." UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).

• 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.

Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:

• Palestine Order in Council:

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
​

• UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:

Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​

Most Respectfully,
R

You are ducking my post.

(COMMENT)

I didn't "duck" anything.

Most Respectfully,
R

You post a link without reading it or at least not conveying what it said in reference to my post.

(COMMENT)

You said:

• Israel claims borders...

A: I gave you the latest treaties with the International Borders.​

• Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements...

A: I gave you the UN Treaty Collection Registry data.​

• Israel claims on land that the UN calls Palestine...

A: I gave you the record on the name assigned in the International system.​

I just assume that anyone who read your comment and mine, would be able to deduce this. I'll have to be more careful in future.

Most Respectfully,
R

From your link:

The following matters are agreed between the parties:

(fl)The full exercise of Egyptian sovereignty up to the internationally recognized border between Egypt and mandated Palestine;​

First let me say that the 1949 UN Armistice Agreement called that border the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They also called the land on the Palestinians side of that border Palestine.

Why would they use the term mandated Palestine? What was the status of Palestine 30 years after the Mandate left Palestine? Why did it still have international borders?

If Israel acquired that land 30 years ago, why didn't they call it the border between Egypt and Israel?

 

[Phoenall]

Read their declaration when they declared independence, they are legally bound by their own words when they promised to do so.


YOU LOSE AGAIN

The initial declaration of independence or the replays.

BTW, where did they say that?

The only one accepted by the world of course, and you read the declaration to see how they lied all the way

Recognition by other states is not a requirement.

You wouldn't point out those lies, would you?

Of course not.

But acceptance is, and you should look at the difference between the two words. As you say no one accepts Israel as being sovereign over the O.T.


So when did the UN accept that the arab muslims showed a small ability to self determination and accepted them as observers ?

They don't need to show anybody any ability to self determination.

They do if they want to be seen as a nation and being able to live on their own. It is a pre-requisite for the entry into the UN as a full member. Until then they are just another puppet state for the islamonazi terrorists

 

[Phoenall]

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:



PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.
Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.

OK, those are Palestine's international borders.

Where is the land transfer to the Jews.

No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.

Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?

Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.

The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.

BULLSHIT

It cleary stated that for the purpose of the mandate it would be called palestine and not the mandate of palestine for ease. You have been told this and been shown the official documents that spell this out endless numbers of times.

WHY DO YOU IGNORE REALITY SO MUCH

You could say the same thing about all of the new states in the region.

The Mandates never claimed title and rights to the territories. It was not theirs to give away and they did not.

You mean the mandatories, as the mandates were the legal aspects of being a state. The mandates were run by the LoN and not by Britain, France or Russia who where the mandatories who administered the states for the LoN until they could show self determination.

 

[Phoenall]

No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.

Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?

Check out the 1949 UN Armistice agreements.

The Mandate document called Palestine a country ten times.

Nice dodge™

So, getting back to your false claim. No mention of International Borders as you claim. No mention of any "country of Pal'istan" as you misrepresent it to be.

Where did you say this magical, invented "country of Pal'istan" was?

I offered. You didn't look.

Ignorant by choice. Good plan.

We looked but could not see any nation of palestine, just the mandate of palestine to be called palestine for ease of use

The Mandate was not a place. It was an administration.

It was both if you read the various treaties. But this confuses you so much that you need to go and lie down in a darkened room until the fit passes

 

[Phoenall]

Where did they saythe arab muslims could go that did not want to be ruled by the Jews ?

Good question. What is the answer?

You gave the link that stated it, and you did not even know it at the time. They were given trans Jordan as the arab portion of palestine. All in the LoN treaties that have been posted on here an endless number of times to satisfy an imbecile who repeatedly asks for the same links.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore,

Oh come on...

P F Tinmore, et al,

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.

(COMMENT)

Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.

• TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
Volume 2042, 1-35325 UN Treaty Collection.

• TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
No. 17813 United Nations — Treaty Series •
​

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement." Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict. They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.

The UN calls Israel, (wait for it) "Israel." UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).

• 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.

Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:

• Palestine Order in Council:

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
​

• UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:

Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​

Most Respectfully,
R

You are ducking my post.

(COMMENT)

I didn't "duck" anything.

Most Respectfully,
R

You post a link without reading it or at least not conveying what it said in reference to my post.

(COMMENT)

You said:

• Israel claims borders...

A: I gave you the latest treaties with the International Borders.​

• Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements...

A: I gave you the UN Treaty Collection Registry data.​

• Israel claims on land that the UN calls Palestine...

A: I gave you the record on the name assigned in the International system.​

I just assume that anyone who read your comment and mine, would be able to deduce this. I'll have to be more careful in future.

Most Respectfully,
R

From your link:

The following matters are agreed between the parties:

(fl)The full exercise of Egyptian sovereignty up to the internationally recognized border between Egypt and mandated Palestine;​

First let me say that the 1949 UN Armistice Agreement called that border the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They also called the land on the Palestinians side of that border Palestine.

Why would they use the term mandated Palestine? What was the status of Palestine 30 years after the Mandate left Palestine? Why did it still have international borders?

If Israel acquired that land 30 years ago, why didn't they call it the border between Egypt and Israel?

Even when you cut and paste yourself you miss the word mandated or mandate. Showing that you are not interested in the truth one iota.
The mandate never left, it was the mandatory that left. Learn the difference


The Mandate

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate


The Mandatory

The UK, Britain, Great Britain, The British Isles, England - what's the difference?

 

[Phoenall]

One might ask the question, where is the (imaginary) "transfer" of territory to which the Palestinians lay claim.

There is no need to "transfer" territory to the native population. Their right to that territory is inherent. If foreigners want any land it must be transferred to them. This requires a treaty or other agreement to transfer that land. In that process specific land defined by borders is transferred.

Therefor Israel would have specific borders not just non border armistice lines.

So the same applies to the arab muslims that are proven to be illegal immigrants doesnt it. making your claim a two edged sword slicing of the palestinians heads when they try and use it against the Jews. But you forgot about the mandate of palestine being a treaty that delineates and transfers the land to the Jews of the world.

So twice in one post you prove yourself to be an imbecile, and yiu claim you were a teacher ? ? ? ? ?

 

[Phoenall]

Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.

Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.

Interesting legal concept.

But not the nation of palestine which you seem to have a problem understanding how two palestines can exist at the same time in the same place. So no longer an interesting legal concept when you apply logic, we have palestine the proto nation that is taking for ever to stand on its own feet and the area that includes Israel. The treaties were accepted by the UN so that is another nail in your coffin

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.

Israel does have specific borders with Egypt and Jordan.

Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements, on land that the UN calls Palestine.

Interesting legal concept.

(COMMENT)

Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.

• TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
Volume 2042, 1-35325 UN Treaty Collection.

• TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
No. 17813 United Nations — Treaty Series •
​

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement." Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict. They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.

The UN calls Israel, (wait for it) "Israel." UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).

• 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.

Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:

• Palestine Order in Council:

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
​

• UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:

Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​

Most Respectfully,
R

You are ducking my post.

No you are just not liking the answers you are getting with evidence to back them up. So we will now call it the call of the lesser spotted failed islamonazi supporter

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore,

Oh come on...

P F Tinmore, et al,

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, I think that you are --- again twisting the fact.

(COMMENT)

Relative to the West Bank, and Gaza Strip --- these are the facts.

• TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
Volume 2042, 1-35325 UN Treaty Collection.

• TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
No. 17813 United Nations — Treaty Series •
​

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "non-UN Agreement." Peace Treaties are between parties to the conflict. They are then registered with the UN Treaty Collection.

The UN calls Israel, (wait for it) "Israel." UN General Assembly Resolution 273 (III).

• 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.

Palestine was defined by a couple different directives - check this out:

• Palestine Order in Council:

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
​

• UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 Question of Palestine:

Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;​

Most Respectfully,
R

You are ducking my post.

(COMMENT)

I didn't "duck" anything.

Most Respectfully,
R

You post a link without reading it or at least not conveying what it said in reference to my post.

(COMMENT)

You said:

• Israel claims borders...

A: I gave you the latest treaties with the International Borders.​

• Israel claims borders, in non UN agreements...

A: I gave you the UN Treaty Collection Registry data.​

• Israel claims on land that the UN calls Palestine...

A: I gave you the record on the name assigned in the International system.​

I just assume that anyone who read your comment and mine, would be able to deduce this. I'll have to be more careful in future.

Most Respectfully,
R

From your link:

The following matters are agreed between the parties:

(fl)The full exercise of Egyptian sovereignty up to the internationally recognized border between Egypt and mandated Palestine;​

First let me say that the 1949 UN Armistice Agreement called that border the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They also called the land on the Palestinians side of that border Palestine.

Why would they use the term mandated Palestine? What was the status of Palestine 30 years after the Mandate left Palestine? Why did it still have international borders?

If Israel acquired that land 30 years ago, why didn't they call it the border between Egypt and Israel?

The operative word being MANDATED, showing it does not mean nation or state.

Because the mandate never left, it was transferred to the UN in 1945. It was the original mandatory that left.

Because everyone knows what is meant by the borders of mandated palestine, apart from you of course

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If you link to the treaty collection page (EG IL_790326_Egypt and Israel) you can read it clearly. But remember, the date of acquisition is not always the same as the date of treaty ascension.

• TREATY OF PEACE 1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL
No. 17813 United Nations — Treaty Series •​

What was the status of Palestine 30 years after the Mandate left Palestine?

(COMMENT)

The date of "acquisition" (of which there are several different means) is essentially when sovereignty is established and protected under the Montevideo Convention. International recognition is not required; wherein the "political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states."

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.

In 1948, Egypt was one of the Arab League States that crossed the line of departure and entered the former Mandate of Palestine and Israel. At the time of the Armistice, Egypt occupied and held a Military Governorship over the Gaza Strip. It was a much smaller territory that was once designated as an allocation for an Arab State (reject territory by the Arab Palestinian). In 1967, after Egypt demanded the removal of the UN Emergency Force acting as the buffer between Egypt and Israel, the Egyptian Forces staged on the Israeli Border were made combat ineffective (Six Day War) and the Egyptian Military Contingent in the Gaza Strip were forced to withdraw. The Egyptian Third Army attempted to retake the Gaza Strip in 1973 (The Yom Kipper Sneak Attack). The Third Army was eventually encircled and cut-off by Israeli Forces. In 1979, Egypt and Israel concluded a Peace Treaty which dissolved and replaced the 1949 Armistice Agreement.

Article II. The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, 1 without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.
​

Here, the phrase "Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine" = "Egypt and Israel"... But it also shows that the Mandated Territory is "former" --- as in --- no longer there. There was, once -- a place identified as the "Mandated Territory;" but, no longer.

Make no mistake! Whether or not Egypt recognized the State of Israel prior to the 1979 treaty (part and parcel of the political stance of the Khartoum Resolution), makes no difference. Israel existed independently of Egyptian or Arab Palestinian recognition.

Why did it still have international borders?

(COMMENT)

The former Yugoslavia is now partitioned into six independent states. Each of those states, as it happens, shares a segment of its border with the "former Yugoslavia." The State and Borders of Yugoslavia are long gone. But the former Yugoslavia will be there forever.

The artifical boundaries for the territory under the Mandate for Palestine, as determined by the Allied Powers, are also indelibly printed into the annals of history. Yet the official territory under the Mandate has passed on to form something newer; including Israel.

If Israel acquired that land 30 years ago, why didn't they call it the border between Egypt and Israel?

(COMMENT)

Well, because they chose to say it in the English form of: "permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel;" or, "Frontière Internationale."

Why would they use the term mandated Palestine?

(COMMENT)

Well, this has to do with the fact that the pre-War "Palestine" was not a formal territorial entity and political subdivision. It was a territory that stretched across half of the Vilayet of Beirut, the Sanjuk of Jerusalem, Maan, Hauran, and Damascus.

The "mandated" adjective refers directly to the Title definition outlined in the Palestine Order in Council; meaning "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.

I think you are incorrect here.

BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, yes I did.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.

I think you are incorrect here.

BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?

(COMMENT)

I answered several questions. I cited your question and answered it. You just don't like the answer. In fact you just copied the answer back.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
​

Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948. Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.

I think you are incorrect here.

BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?

Whar you mean is you want the treaty to be wrong as it does not meet with your definition that your read into it.


No it was answered in full, just not with the one you wanted

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, yes I did.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.

I think you are incorrect here.

BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?

(COMMENT)

I answered several questions. I cited your question and answered it. You just don't like the answer. In fact you just copied the answer back.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
​

Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948. Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.

Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.

The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]

http://www.exploringgeopolitics.org...court_justice_montevideo_genocide_convention/​

Also

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897​

And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.

So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?

How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is historically wrong.

Oh, yes I did.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.

I think you are incorrect here.

BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?

(COMMENT)

I answered several questions. I cited your question and answered it. You just don't like the answer. In fact you just copied the answer back.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
​

Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948. Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.

Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.

The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]

Sovereignty: two Competing Theories of State Recognition - William Worster - Exploring Geopolitics​

Also

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897​

And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.

So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?

How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?

(HISTORICAL RECORD)

REPORT

BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE
OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN FOR THE YEAR 1924. 31 December 1924
The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine as a territory detached from Turkey and administered under a Mandate entrusted to His Majesty's Government.

The terms of the Mandate had been approved in anticipation by the Council of the League of Nations in 1922, and the Mandate had been brought into operation by resolution of the Council in 1923. A first report on the administration of the territory, covering the period from July, 1920, to the end of 1923, was presented to the Permanent Mandates Commission of the League by His Majesty's Government, and was considered by the Commission at their session at Geneva in October, 1924. On their invitation, the High Commissioner for Palestine attended that session, and gave evidence, in answer to questions, extending over six sittings. The Report of the Commission was approved by the Council of the League and has been made public.

(COMMENT)

There is this constant misinterpretation on the impact the Treaty of Lausanne had and the intentions of the League of Nations. I do not know where you get this idea that something in 1924 affirmed a new state of Palestine. That is simply not the case and was never the intention of the league Members.

Israel declared independence in 1948, after the using the principle of self-determination. No matter what you might think, or however you want to spin and twist reality, the fact is, that Israel is a country with the competence of a state. They declared it and they defended it (more than once).

It is my opinion that it is the Israeli population’s right to self-determination which takes precedence over and above any claims of sovereignty the Hostile Arab Palestinians might submit.

BUT once more. Nothing in 1924 gave the former enemy population any authority for statehood or sovereignty that was renounced by the former sovereign power to the Allied Powers over the territory of Palestine as defined by the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, yes I did.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.

I think you are incorrect here.

BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?

(COMMENT)

I answered several questions. I cited your question and answered it. You just don't like the answer. In fact you just copied the answer back.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
​

Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948. Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.

Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.

The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]

Sovereignty: two Competing Theories of State Recognition - William Worster - Exploring Geopolitics​

Also

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897​

And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.

So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?

How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?

Remember the criteria you laid out on the table in regards to international treaty. Then where is the international treaty naming palestine as a nation ?

Isreal gets recognition through the UN and the LoN, palestine being nothing more than an are has nothing

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is historically wrong.

Oh, yes I did.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.

I think you are incorrect here.

BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?

(COMMENT)

I answered several questions. I cited your question and answered it. You just don't like the answer. In fact you just copied the answer back.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
​

Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948. Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.

Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.

The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]

Sovereignty: two Competing Theories of State Recognition - William Worster - Exploring Geopolitics​

Also

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897​

And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.

So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?

How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?

(HISTORICAL RECORD)

REPORT

BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE
OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN FOR THE YEAR 1924. 31 December 1924
The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine as a territory detached from Turkey and administered under a Mandate entrusted to His Majesty's Government.

The terms of the Mandate had been approved in anticipation by the Council of the League of Nations in 1922, and the Mandate had been brought into operation by resolution of the Council in 1923. A first report on the administration of the territory, covering the period from July, 1920, to the end of 1923, was presented to the Permanent Mandates Commission of the League by His Majesty's Government, and was considered by the Commission at their session at Geneva in October, 1924. On their invitation, the High Commissioner for Palestine attended that session, and gave evidence, in answer to questions, extending over six sittings. The Report of the Commission was approved by the Council of the League and has been made public.

(COMMENT)

There is this constant misinterpretation on the impact the Treaty of Lausanne had and the intentions of the League of Nations. I do not know where you get this idea that something in 1924 affirmed a new state of Palestine. That is simply not the case and was never the intention of the league Members.

Israel declared independence in 1948, after the using the principle of self-determination. No matter what you might think, or however you want to spin and twist reality, the fact is, that Israel is a country with the competence of a state. They declared it and they defended it (more than once).

It is my opinion that it is the Israeli population’s right to self-determination which takes precedence over and above any claims of sovereignty the Hostile Arab Palestinians might submit.

BUT once more. Nothing in 1924 gave the former enemy population any authority for statehood or sovereignty that was renounced by the former sovereign power to the Allied Powers over the territory of Palestine as defined by the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R

The LoN called it a state. The Treaty of Lausanne considered it a state although indirectly with a blanket reference. It was called a state by other legal entities. The US considered it a state. The 1949 UN Armistice Agreements called it Palestine and referenced its international borders.

So, who has the authority to dismantle a state?

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is historically wrong.

Oh, yes I did.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.

I think you are incorrect here.

BTW, did you answer my questions someplace in all this?

(COMMENT)

I answered several questions. I cited your question and answered it. You just don't like the answer. In fact you just copied the answer back.

Article 3 of the Montevideo Convention fits hand-in-glove with the principle of self-determination. And on 15 May 1948, when Israel use the declarative process (suggested and recommended by the UN), the boundaries to which it held sovereignty over became Israel.
​

Pursuant to Montevideo Convention, Israel was declared and defended it on 15 May 1948. Israel is where ever it defends its sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

Of course what you say does not hold to the law as much as what I say.

Palestine was a state by 1924 per the LoN.

The Montevideo Convention of 1933 states: “The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.”[3] The International Court of Justice has held in the Genocide Convention case that it adheres to the declaratory view, in the sense that the failure to maintain effective control over territory does not extinguish the legal entity in the eyes of the United Nations.[4]

Sovereignty: two Competing Theories of State Recognition - William Worster - Exploring Geopolitics​

Also

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

http://www.cfr.org/sovereignty/montevideo-convention-rights-duties-states/p15897​

And my previous post implies that Palestine is still there.

So, where does Israel get legitimacy in Palestine?

How can Israel claim borders on Palestinian territory?

(HISTORICAL RECORD)

REPORT

BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE
OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN FOR THE YEAR 1924. 31 December 1924
The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in August, 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine as a territory detached from Turkey and administered under a Mandate entrusted to His Majesty's Government.

The terms of the Mandate had been approved in anticipation by the Council of the League of Nations in 1922, and the Mandate had been brought into operation by resolution of the Council in 1923. A first report on the administration of the territory, covering the period from July, 1920, to the end of 1923, was presented to the Permanent Mandates Commission of the League by His Majesty's Government, and was considered by the Commission at their session at Geneva in October, 1924. On their invitation, the High Commissioner for Palestine attended that session, and gave evidence, in answer to questions, extending over six sittings. The Report of the Commission was approved by the Council of the League and has been made public.

(COMMENT)

There is this constant misinterpretation on the impact the Treaty of Lausanne had and the intentions of the League of Nations. I do not know where you get this idea that something in 1924 affirmed a new state of Palestine. That is simply not the case and was never the intention of the league Members.

Israel declared independence in 1948, after the using the principle of self-determination. No matter what you might think, or however you want to spin and twist reality, the fact is, that Israel is a country with the competence of a state. They declared it and they defended it (more than once).

It is my opinion that it is the Israeli population’s right to self-determination which takes precedence over and above any claims of sovereignty the Hostile Arab Palestinians might submit.

BUT once more. Nothing in 1924 gave the former enemy population any authority for statehood or sovereignty that was renounced by the former sovereign power to the Allied Powers over the territory of Palestine as defined by the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R

The LoN called it a state. The Treaty of Lausanne considered it a state although indirectly with a blanket reference. It was called a state by other legal entities. The US considered it a state. The 1949 UN Armistice Agreements called it Palestine and referenced its international borders.

So, who has the authority to dismantle a state?

There was never a state to dismantle. It is you who has invented a "state of Pal'istan" where none has ever existed. I understand you're desperate to rewrite history and invent your own interpretations, but have you considered that your invented "country of Pal'istan" exists, as you have identified, by mere "indirect reference"?

I have land for sale in the "country of the Bible Belt". Make me an offer.