Who Are The Palestinians " III "

[Sixties Fan]

I do not know if there was a " Who are the Palestinians 1" , as # 2 was definitely NOT about Who They Are, as the first post shows.

So, let us continue with our number "III", #2 has too many pages already, to discuss who those who call themselves Palestinians are, what their history, ideologies, dreams, goals, motives, etc are.

Are the leaders of the Palestinians actually working for a Palestinian State?
Are the leaders of the Palestinians actually taking care of their People?
Are the leaders of the Palestinians educating their populations for a future peace with Israel?
What is the difference in lifestyle between the Palestinians in Gaza and the PA ?
What is the difference in lifestyle between the poor and the rich in both places?
Does one have to belong to a certain clan in order to have a better life?
Does one have to be pro Hamas or the PA in order to have a better life?
Are all who live in Gaza and the PA civilians?
Do all Palestinians approve of their leaders?
What does the common Palestinian want?
Do Palestinians care if they work in Gaza or the PA, or are they willing to work in Israel, as they did before the Intifada?
How does the common Palestinian actually feel about Israel? Will they work there, seek health care or education in Israel if they can?

What is the role of UNWRA in the education of these populations? What do they teach? Are they involved with any other refugees?

What is the role of UNWRA, period, as there are fewer and fewer refugees from the 1948 war. Will there be a time when it could be dismantled?


So, many questions, and there are many more.
All the questions and answers do come out in the news, daily.

Now, discuss.

 

[Sixties Fan]

At the end of President Biden's visit to Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas in Bethlehem, they both issued statements.

And Abbas' statement included explicit Jew-hatred.

According to the official Palestinian Wafa news agency:

President Abbas stressed that East Jerusalem, occupied since 1967, is the capital of the State of Palestine, stressing the need to stop the extremist groups’ incursions into the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, and to preserve the historical situation in the Christian and Islamic holy sites in East Jerusalem, in accordance with the Hashemite guardianship over them.

He told the American president that the holiest site in Judaism should be Judenfrei.

Slightly less explicitly but no less clearly, Abbas also insisted that all of the Old City be empty of Jews as well. When he refers to the "historical situation" of the holy sites in Jerusalem under Hashemite rule he means the situation between 1949 and 1967, when Jordan controlled the Old City - and not one Jew was allowed to visit.

Not Israelis, but Jews. Jordan banned Jews from any country to visit the Old City as well as the rest of Judea and Samaria.

Mahmoud Abbas publicly told the US President that the holiest city in Judaism should be off limits to Jews.

This pure antisemitism will be roundly ignored in the international media. Because the English version of the story in Wafa didn't include any of this part of his statement.

UPDATE: Abbas also said that all of Israel is "occupied Palestinian land." In his speech, according to YNet, he said, "After 74 years, isn't it time for occupation to end?"

The US should strongly condemn these words that insult not only Israel but the US itself.

(full article online)

Abbas statement to Biden: Stop all Jews from visiting the Temple Mount, and keep the old city of Jerusalem Judenrein

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ How Palestinian became the Arabs in Palestine's Nationality ]

Soviet Russia, Creator of the PLO and Inventor of the Palestinian People

www.readcube.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

When speaking about the Middle East, it is common to hear about the “need” and “desire” for Palestinian statehood. But exactly what kind of state do the Palestinians want and what are the roots of Palestinian nationalism?

Historically, the Palestinian “desire for statehood” and “need for liberation” was invented in large part by the Soviet Union. It is no coincidence that the blueprint for the PLO Charter was drafted in Moscow in 1964 and was approved by 422 Palestinian representative hand selected by the KGB. At that time, the USSR was in the business of creating people’s liberation fronts. The KGB founded the PLO as well as the National Liberation Army of Bolivia (1964) with Ernesto “Che” Guevara at its head and the National Liberation Army of Colombia (1965).

These “liberation fronts” were seen by the USSR as centers of Marxist indoctrination and opposition to democratic and capitalist movements. In the Middle East, the only foothold of the democratic west is Israel; nurturing the PLO to undermine Israel was therefore quite natural for the Soviets, who not only helped fund and establish the PLO but also trained and supplied its terrorist operations.

To understand the PLO’s conception of a Palestinian state, it is instructive to examine Article 24 of the original PLO Charter. It reads: “this Organization [the PLO] does not exercise any regional sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, in the Gaza Strip or the Himmah area.” If not the West Bank and Gaza, then what exactly what did, the PLO claim? The Palestine that the PLO wanted was in fact the State of Israel.

Consider that it was not until 1968 that Article 24 was amended to include a claim on the West Bank and Gaza. At the time of the original drafting, Jordan and Egypt controlled the West Bank and Gaza after unilaterally and illegally annexing them following the War of Israeli Independence in 1948. It was only after Israel had gained these territories in the War of 1967 that the Palestinian Arabs declared an interest in controlling them.

The evidence that simple autonomy in the West Bank and Gaza was never the PLO’s true goal is everywhere. In 1970, US Secretary of State William Rogers suggested that the West Bank and Gaza be given up by Israel in return for peace and recognition. This plan was accepted by Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. Only Yasser Arafat, leader of the PLO, rejected it, opting instead to attempt an overthrow of Jordan’s King Hussein.

The evidence runs deeper. Yassir Arafat, who was head of the PLO until 2004, was under the direct tutelage and control of the KGB. Ion Mihai Pacepa, KGB officer and onetime chief of Romanian Intelligence, was assigned to handling Arafat. Pacepa recorded several of his conversations with Arafat when they met in Romania at the palace of brutal dictators Nicolai and Elena Ceausescu. In these conversations, Arafat unequivocally states that his sole aim is to destroy Israel.

(full article online)

The Deception of Palestinian Nationalism

When speaking about the Middle East, it is common to hear about the “need” and “desire” for Palestinian statehood. But exactly what kind of state do the Palestinians want and what are the roots of Palestinian nationalism? Historically, the Palestinian “desire for statehood” and “need for...

stanfordreview.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

Give me missiles'​

The genesis of the KGB’s developing ties with Palestinian terror organizations can be traced back to the end of the 1960s. The Soviet spy agency had code names for the different factions making up the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO): Fatah, the main movement led by Yasser Arafat, was dubbed "Kabinet" (cabinet); the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) received the name "Khutor" (which means a small village or a farm in Russian); the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) was named "Shkola" (a school in Russian); and Ahmad Jibril's Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC) was dubbed "Blindage" (a fortified wooden military structure).



Arafat himself received the codename "Aref," but the Russians weren't particularly impressed with him at first. The Mitrokhin archive includes a memo that notes: "Aref only keeps promises that benefit him. The information he provides is very laconic and only serves to promote his own interests." The KGB also questioned many of the biographical details Arafat provided them with—his past as a combat soldier, his birth place, and more. Despite this, the KGB appointed a senior liaison officer named Vasili Samoylenko to "cultivate" the Fatah leader.


Yasser Arafat with close advisor Hani al-Hassan (Photo: AFP)




But the interest in Fatah and Arafat was limited at that point. The Russians were a lot more interested in the PLO's other factions, particularly George Habash's Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).




"One of the reasons for that is the Marxist–Leninist ideology of Habash's men," explains Prof. Christopher Andrew, one of the world's foremost historians researching intelligence services, whose second book about the Mitrokhin documents includes an extensive chapter on the KGB's activity in the Middle East.




Habash may have been the head of the PFLP, but it was his deputy, Dr. Wadi Haddad—a Christian Arab from Safed and a pediatrician like his boss—who had the brilliant operational mind. Haddad greatly improved upon a form of terrorism that was still in its infancy at the time—hijacking planes—and understood the power of international media coverage that such an attack garners.




He was the mastermind behind the hijacking of an El Al plane to Algeria in July 1968, which ended with the release of the passengers in return for 16 Palestinian prisoners and was considered by the Palestinians as a great success.


He was also behind the hijacking of the Tel Aviv-bound TWA Flight 840 to Damascus in August 1969, which received unprecedented media coverage. That hijacking ended with the passengers being released and its perpetrators being arrested by Syrian authorities immediately upon the plane's landing in Damascus, but not before they managed to blow up the empty plane. One of the hijackers was Haddad's infamous protégé Leila Khaled, who also took part in many other terror attacks. During the flight to Damascus, Khaled entered the cockpit, put a gun to the captain's head and ordered him to "fly over Haifa, over my city, over Palestine—where they won't let me return."




(full article online)

The KGB's Middle East Files: Palestinians in the service of Mother Russia

Secret KGB documents reveal just how deeply involved the Soviet Union was in the spilling of Israeli blood. The Russian spy agency provided Palestinian terror organizations with funds, training and arms, running agents like 'Krotov' - aka Mahmoud Abbas, 'Aref' - or Yasser Arafat, and...

www.ynetnews.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

At the end of President Biden's visit to Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas in Bethlehem, they both issued statements.

And Abbas' statement included explicit Jew-hatred.

According to the official Palestinian Wafa news agency:

He told the American president that the holiest site in Judaism should be Judenfrei.

Slightly less explicitly but no less clearly, Abbas also insisted that all of the Old City be empty of Jews as well. When he refers to the "historical situation" of the holy sites in Jerusalem under Hashemite rule he means the situation between 1949 and 1967, when Jordan controlled the Old City - and not one Jew was allowed to visit.

Not Israelis, but Jews. Jordan banned Jews from any country to visit the Old City as well as the rest of Judea and Samaria.

Mahmoud Abbas publicly told the US President that the holiest city in Judaism should be off limits to Jews.

This pure antisemitism will be roundly ignored in the international media. Because the English version of the story in Wafa didn't include any of this part of his statement.

UPDATE: Abbas also said that all of Israel is "occupied Palestinian land." In his speech, according to YNet, he said, "After 74 years, isn't it time for occupation to end?"

The US should strongly condemn these words that insult not only Israel but the US itself.

(full article online)

Abbas statement to Biden: Stop all Jews from visiting the Temple Mount, and keep the old city of Jerusalem Judenrein

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

UPDATE: Abbas also said that all of Israel is "occupied Palestinian land." In his speech, according to YNet, he said, "After 74 years, isn't it time for occupation to end?"

That is historically correct.

 

[Penelope]

Why are there Jewish Palestinians and also Christian. They didn't change when the countries held them, do you know the Ottoman empire.

Here is it, you can read about it.

Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

That is historically correct.

It is time for the Muslim occupation to end. It has been going on since the 7th Century.

 

[Hollie]

That is historically correct.

No, it's not. There was never any sovereign pally territory.

You shouldn't expect others to share your denial of reality.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Origins​

Palestinian citizenship developed during the 20th century, starting during the British Mandate era and in different form following the Oslo Peace process, with the former British Mandate definition (before 1925)[1] including the Jews of Palestine and the Arabs of Jordan, and the latter excluding the Arabs of Jordan (at this point part of the sovereign country of Jordan). There has never been a sovereign Palestinian authority that explicitly defined who is a Palestinian, but the term evolved from a geographic description of citizenship to a description of geographic citizenship with an Arab ethnicity.

----
On the expiration of the British Mandate, the Mandate Palestinian nationality law ceased to apply. This meant that those who held Mandatory Palestinian citizenship had no citizenship under the law of any country, and the normal rights of citizenship depended on which country each person found themselves after the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. For Palestinian Arabs, this also depended on whether they were categorised as refugees in those countries. For example, Palestinians found themselves being categorised as Israeli-Palestinians, Jordanian-Palestinians, United Nations Relief and Works AgencyPalestinians, and Gaza Palestinians, or Palestinians of another country.[5]


(full article online)

History of Palestinian nationality - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

Who Will Call for Justice?​

Indeed, thousands of Palestinian youths have over the past years been sent to “summer camps” where they receive military training by members of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other Gaza-based, U.S.-designated terror groups. Some of the participants are as young as ten years old.

But rather than draw attention to Hamas’ transformation of children into soldiers, journalists have ignored the war crime and some, inexplicably, have tried to place the blame on Israel.

On July 11, Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) exposed that the Palestinian Authority’s security forces, in cooperation with President Abbas’ Fatah party, also offer military training to children from the age of seven and up. A video posted to a Fatah Facebook page explains that, in the “army camp,” kids “wear soldiers’ uniforms, eat their food, and are trained in military order and discipline.’”

“Our battle with the sons of dogs [i.e., Israelis] is long, and we need a young generation,” the video says, while showing minors disassembling and assembling weapons. Through chants, young participants of the PA camps are taught to admire Dalal Mughrabi, the PLO terrorist who led one of the most deadly terror attacks against Israeli citizens, a 1978 bus hijacking in which armed Palestinians slaughtered 38 Israelis, including 13 children.



(full article online

AP Tars Israel, While Whitewashing Palestinian Crimes Against Children | United with Israel

As Biden meets with the terror-supporting rulers in Ramallah, who will call for justice?

unitedwithisrael.org

 

[thomasmariel]

Illegal identity empathy, i.e. being a conservative supporter in the UK but supporting the Democratic party in the US, is actually a metaphor ally of the idea, of the Palestinian people versus the Israeli people.

When I say metaphor ally, I mean that the ulterior truth to the system (the illegal identity empathy) is a good weather generator machine. Why would this be the case?

A good weather, is a breeze. It's not sunlight i.e. tanning salons.

The link, between sunlight and tanning salons, is of course that people tan themselves using the sun; of course, this is a stating the obvious system, but, it's the sex of tanning after text.

Why can't good weather be sunlight, but instead have to be a breeze?

Possibly, the geography imagination politics of Palestine, is tied to the breeze imagination. Underneath, the term breeze, there is the devastating truth: Americanism is Palestine, i.e. the evangelical system of the United States, and the American accent is in fact the Palestinian people, and the geography imagination politics of Palestine.

As a version, of ulterior, as in the aforementioned illegal identity empathy to do with UK Tory party and US democratic party is a version of ulterior selected - other selectives being the generic, such as animal evolution being a metaphor machine, or the slightly more advanced, such as ladders (actual ladders) being extramartial affairs - the system is essentially a badass, i.e. holding onto the rope without the rope being there.

As of now, i.e. this very moment, I'm surrounded by the tanning salon concretes, of Friday's breeze, compounded with no rain; a yin-yang system - can it hold onto you, other users of this forum, from the revelation hypothesis about Palestine?

To close:
I spent some of yesterday going to a finance meeting, about being able to claim extra money off the government; at the end of the meeting, I said, in light of my handed over writing - "I can click on daylight, as a socialist user of switching on my mental illness" (this quote being the writing), that I didn't mind having the writing be shown to other people, if it meant that said people could be exempt from having to use ladders, i.e. actual ladders, not corporate ladders.

I include this dynamic, about yesterday, within this text, due to the symmetry politics between America evangelicalism being Palestine, and the left helping the right via the left's absence of rope.

 

[surada]

When speaking about the Middle East, it is common to hear about the “need” and “desire” for Palestinian statehood. But exactly what kind of state do the Palestinians want and what are the roots of Palestinian nationalism?

Historically, the Palestinian “desire for statehood” and “need for liberation” was invented in large part by the Soviet Union. It is no coincidence that the blueprint for the PLO Charter was drafted in Moscow in 1964 and was approved by 422 Palestinian representative hand selected by the KGB. At that time, the USSR was in the business of creating people’s liberation fronts. The KGB founded the PLO as well as the National Liberation Army of Bolivia (1964) with Ernesto “Che” Guevara at its head and the National Liberation Army of Colombia (1965).

These “liberation fronts” were seen by the USSR as centers of Marxist indoctrination and opposition to democratic and capitalist movements. In the Middle East, the only foothold of the democratic west is Israel; nurturing the PLO to undermine Israel was therefore quite natural for the Soviets, who not only helped fund and establish the PLO but also trained and supplied its terrorist operations.

To understand the PLO’s conception of a Palestinian state, it is instructive to examine Article 24 of the original PLO Charter. It reads: “this Organization [the PLO] does not exercise any regional sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, in the Gaza Strip or the Himmah area.” If not the West Bank and Gaza, then what exactly what did, the PLO claim? The Palestine that the PLO wanted was in fact the State of Israel.

Consider that it was not until 1968 that Article 24 was amended to include a claim on the West Bank and Gaza. At the time of the original drafting, Jordan and Egypt controlled the West Bank and Gaza after unilaterally and illegally annexing them following the War of Israeli Independence in 1948. It was only after Israel had gained these territories in the War of 1967 that the Palestinian Arabs declared an interest in controlling them.

The evidence that simple autonomy in the West Bank and Gaza was never the PLO’s true goal is everywhere. In 1970, US Secretary of State William Rogers suggested that the West Bank and Gaza be given up by Israel in return for peace and recognition. This plan was accepted by Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. Only Yasser Arafat, leader of the PLO, rejected it, opting instead to attempt an overthrow of Jordan’s King Hussein.

The evidence runs deeper. Yassir Arafat, who was head of the PLO until 2004, was under the direct tutelage and control of the KGB. Ion Mihai Pacepa, KGB officer and onetime chief of Romanian Intelligence, was assigned to handling Arafat. Pacepa recorded several of his conversations with Arafat when they met in Romania at the palace of brutal dictators Nicolai and Elena Ceausescu. In these conversations, Arafat unequivocally states that his sole aim is to destroy Israel.

(full article online)

The Deception of Palestinian Nationalism

When speaking about the Middle East, it is common to hear about the “need” and “desire” for Palestinian statehood. But exactly what kind of state do the Palestinians want and what are the roots of Palestinian nationalism? Historically, the Palestinian “desire for statehood” and “need for...

stanfordreview.org

Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians are the same people.. the Lebanese were the seagoing Phoenician branch of the family. They weren't from Russia or Europe. The Palestinians were called Palestinians when I was a child in the 1950s. Lots of them worked in Arabia... some were Christians.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Origins​

Palestinian citizenship developed during the 20th century, starting during the British Mandate era and in different form following the Oslo Peace process, with the former British Mandate definition (before 1925)[1] including the Jews of Palestine and the Arabs of Jordan, and the latter excluding the Arabs of Jordan (at this point part of the sovereign country of Jordan). There has never been a sovereign Palestinian authority that explicitly defined who is a Palestinian, but the term evolved from a geographic description of citizenship to a description of geographic citizenship with an Arab ethnicity.

----
On the expiration of the British Mandate, the Mandate Palestinian nationality law ceased to apply. This meant that those who held Mandatory Palestinian citizenship had no citizenship under the law of any country, and the normal rights of citizenship depended on which country each person found themselves after the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. For Palestinian Arabs, this also depended on whether they were categorised as refugees in those countries. For example, Palestinians found themselves being categorised as Israeli-Palestinians, Jordanian-Palestinians, United Nations Relief and Works AgencyPalestinians, and Gaza Palestinians, or Palestinians of another country.[5]


(full article online)

History of Palestinian nationality - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page. (Learn how and when to remove these template messages)

This article possibly contains original research. (May 2011)

The lead section of this article may need to be rewritten. (June 2011)

This article is written like a personal reflection, personal essay, or argumentative essay that states a Wikipedia editor's personal feelings or presents an original argument about a topic. (September 2008)

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[surada]

HAMAS accepted the Saudi peace initiative in 2002.

Hamas would accept Saudi peace plan, spokesman says / Group would stop attacks on Israelis if occupation ends

Hamas would accept Saudi peace plan, spokesman says / Group would stop attacks on Israelis...

www.sfgate.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

No, it's not. There was never any sovereign pally territory.

You shouldn't expect others to share your denial of reality.

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Leading news agency Agence France-Presse (AFP) published an article 24 hours before United States President Joe Biden touched down in Israel that highlighted how a peace deal will not be an outcome of the visit.

Headlined, Palestinians say US economic push no substitute for peace, the second paragraph of the piece pointed out that US ambassador to Israel Thomas Nides had all but confirmed there would be no “throwing American diplomatic muscle into reviving a peace process moribund since 2014.”

An earlier article by another global wire service, the Associated Press, quoted Sam Bahour, a Palestinian-American business consultant based in the West Bank, stating that while economic measures aimed at improving the Palestinian economy could “positively contribute to making peace,” any lasting peace deal “would require Israel and the U.S. having a plan to end this 55-year-old military occupation.”

Meanwhile, American news agency The Media Line reported that while Biden will reaffirm his commitment to a two-state solution, it was “unlikely” that peace talks would be restarted:

Notably absent from these articles is any acknowledgment that the reason peace between Israel and the Palestinians has been so elusive is the more than seven decades of intransigence and rejectionism that have characterized the Palestinian leadership.

So in the spirit of giving the whole picture, here is a brief reminder of the many peace deals that Palestinians have spurned over the years.

The Original ‘No’​

It is important to remember that Palestinian rejectionism actually dates back to the very inception of the Palestinian people as a distinct entity. The grand mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin Husseini, a Nazi collaborator who led the Arab population in what was then the British Mandate of Palestine, warned the British that “most residents of Jewish lands” would not be given citizenship in a future Arab state and said all Jews would be expelled.

He made the comments during testimony before the Peel Commission, which had been established in 1936 in response to an Arab revolt and frequent Arab violence against Jews. In 1937, the Peel Commission recommended a partition of the land into a Jewish state and an Arab state, separated by an international zone.

The Peel Plan was rejected by Arabs.

(full article online)

Memo to Media: Biden's Israel Visit Won't Achieve Lasting Peace Because Palestinians Don't Want It | HonestReporting

Leading news agency Agence France-Presse (AFP) published an article 24 hours before United States President Joe Biden touched down in Israel that

honestreporting.com

 

[Hollie]

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

I knew the facts would force you to dump one of several pointless slogans you spam threads with.

 

[P F Tinmore]

No, it's not. There was never any sovereign pally territory.

You shouldn't expect others to share your denial of reality.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: “The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.”123 And, thereafter, “Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124

Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.

------------------
Palestine and Palestinian nationality was established by international law not by the Mandate.