white loser lol

[Coyote]

This program that is going on right now? That's where I'm from.

Of course white people did bad shit. So did black people. So did yellow people. All people have done bad shit. Get over it.

A society can only be just in its time. Being told that you are guilty because of your skin color is no different than being told your inferior because of your skin color.

No, that crap ain't going to cut it. There is no program created anywhere that makes whites feel guilty for existing. Now you start naming me the white countries colonized by blacks, browns and yellows. Whites today are still doing the same types of shit. And since nobody is telling whites to be guilty for being white it is not the same as being told you are inferior. And it's not the same regardless. What this program is doing is trying to help move your society to just. Why do whites control a nation they do not originate from? You don't want to face that and in order for your society to become just in your time, you have to.

So grow up. You don't get to do 300 years of wrong then have a tantrum because you're criticized for it. And don't tell that tired lie about how you didn't do it, because it's still being done.

That program is telling whites to feel guilty for being white. You choose not to see it because you're so warped by race and being a victim.

I've lectured at an HBU. The group I lead is mostly non-whites. I've hired more black people in my organization than the black people. I choose to see people as individuals, not based on the color of one's skin, which you seem to be obsessed with.

No it doesn't. And stop lying about seeing people as individuals, not the skin color. If you actually did that, you would not consider the program as teaching whites to feel guilty for existing.

What is it teaching then? I admit I have trouble with the concept that I am guilty for something I had nothing to do with, something that is vague and poorly defined but based on my skin color, not my actions. It seems to my mind a way judging me by race. I got educated, not by merit but because of white privilege. I was promoted, not because of my hard work but because of my skin color.

I see the opposite here all the time, where blacks (even our former president) Have their achievements diminished, not based on merit but skin color through affirmative action.

What I don’t see is any difference.

First off, it teaches that others besides whites have done things. Coyote, whites are where they are now because of things you say you had nothing to do with. And this is not about teaching whites to feel guilty. That is what you have been race pimped to believe. In this complete teaching of history, the positive accomplishments of whites have not been ignored. I did not create white preference, the system did. Non whites are not the ones that created the term. A white female did. And I don't think you have any doubt that there is male privilege and specifically white male privilege. The facts support that just as the facts support white racial preferences. So do I complain about how men are being made to feel guilty? Do I endeavor to make the changes I am required to based on the facts I am shown? Or do I spend years whining in every forum available about how I should not feel guilty about what I didn't do like most of these guys do.

Institutional racism has been considered by the supreme court to be a continuing problem. This means whites today, right now, benefit only because of their skin color. As long as whites refuse to do what is necessary to completely end institutional racism, you are doing the same thing that was done in the past.

Coyote, things are not the same for blacks and whites. Racism has not ended, the method of exclusion is not as overt, but it still happens. Because of this, whites do get into college because of white privilege and do get hired and promoted based on skin color. It is a false equivalence to compare that to what you said in your last sentence.

So in the end, why do I have to learn I descend from people who were made to be slaves but whites think they have the right to feel butthurt because there are some not so nice events in their history?

You make good points, but I guess, from where I am coming from, I tend to see a lot of generalizing whites as if they are all the same and think the same. I dislike seeing this targeting of any group.

And I take issue with this:

Institutional racism has been considered by the supreme court to be a continuing problem. This means whites today, right now, benefit only because of their skin color. As long as whites refuse to do what is necessary to completely end institutional racism, you are doing the same thing that was done in the past.

I don’t disagree with the concept of institutionalized racism. I do, however, disagree strongly with the idea that every white personal owes his or her success solely to skin color. To me, that is as offensive as the claim that blacks owe their success solely due to affirmative action.

You are talking about whites as a monolithic entity that is failing to do what is necessary...yet they are not monolithic, and I think it is wrong to judge them in that way.

What do you think they should be doing that they are not?

 

[Coyote]

There are no such programs. In ANY country. This narrative you spin here is a load of crap. Whites did some cruel shit up there that was wrong. So face the music of the song you wrote. You benefit from it and want to brag about how you did it. But you lack the morals to see how it was wrong. But you're real quick to point out other places as evil that did far less.

This program that is going on right now? That's where I'm from.

Of course white people did bad shit. So did black people. So did yellow people. All people have done bad shit. Get over it.

A society can only be just in its time. Being told that you are guilty because of your skin color is no different than being told your inferior because of your skin color.

No, that crap ain't going to cut it. There is no program created anywhere that makes whites feel guilty for existing. Now you start naming me the white countries colonized by blacks, browns and yellows. Whites today are still doing the same types of shit. And since nobody is telling whites to be guilty for being white it is not the same as being told you are inferior. And it's not the same regardless. What this program is doing is trying to help move your society to just. Why do whites control a nation they do not originate from? You don't want to face that and in order for your society to become just in your time, you have to.

So grow up. You don't get to do 300 years of wrong then have a tantrum because you're criticized for it. And don't tell that tired lie about how you didn't do it, because it's still being done.

That billboard, that message, is trite verbiage cooked up by an intense group of academics and activists who can't take their heads out of their asses long enough to smell the coffee. I don't know what Toro is saying, but what I'm saying is LET'S JUST SPEAK ENGLISH HERE. If I hear that "I must check my privilege and my racism" one more time I'm going to vomit. Yes, it is meant well. I know that, but can we please get off the high horse with all this specious rhetoric?

Yeah, I'm lucky I was born white, and not poor, and in 1955 so I could take advantage of the many, many good people who have gone before me and made my life half way easy without trying real hard. I don't know what it is like to be black because I'm white. I read about it and I listen and I do my best to understand, but I'm not black or Native or Asian or any thing other than plain old WASP and I do the fuckin' best I can. I've been accused of saying racist things a few times in this hyper sensitive age, and I've learned from it, but it was never meant as disrespect. Do I feel guilty for being white? I don't think so. I DO feel uncomfortable and on pins and needles when I meet someone black or Native because I'm afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing and then I seem phony because I'm not relaxed and probably that shows.

We can all be a bridge. The government intervened to try and HELP but as always they sound like morons while real shit keeps happening. I don't agree with ignoring it when the people in an area are complaining of a lot of racism. But getting a hoity toity lecture about "checking white privilege" ain't the way to cut it.

Whites are the ones saying that oldlady. And that's certainly is going to be agreed with by blacks when whites keep telling us how much extra shit they think we get.

This is not some hypersensitive age. It is an age where non whites are tired of the crap. If you are scared of saying the wrong thing to a person of color, you need a self inventory. I have been in situations where I have been the only black surrounded by whites many times. I have never been Irish, British, German, etc., or any other thing but a black man and I never worried about saying something that would be disrespectful of whites. So why do some whites have that problem? Why is it that whites act like the world will come to an end if they can't say the n word to a black persons face?

I don't see anything wrong with that program. To many here anything done that has the goal of reducing racism in whites amounts to a make whites feel guilty about existing program. These guys here spend each and every damn day posting pages of overt racist garbage and yet they want to tell everybody how they should not be made to feel guilty for things they haven't done. While they are doing it.

When does the lying stop?

Because the reality of it is, it does. That person gets branded a racist for using that word against a black person. There are two standards. I grew up learning the only meaning was as a slur, and a bad one.

 

[IM2]

No, that crap ain't going to cut it. There is no program created anywhere that makes whites feel guilty for existing. Now you start naming me the white countries colonized by blacks, browns and yellows. Whites today are still doing the same types of shit. And since nobody is telling whites to be guilty for being white it is not the same as being told you are inferior. And it's not the same regardless. What this program is doing is trying to help move your society to just. Why do whites control a nation they do not originate from? You don't want to face that and in order for your society to become just in your time, you have to.

So grow up. You don't get to do 300 years of wrong then have a tantrum because you're criticized for it. And don't tell that tired lie about how you didn't do it, because it's still being done.

That program is telling whites to feel guilty for being white. You choose not to see it because you're so warped by race and being a victim.

I've lectured at an HBU. The group I lead is mostly non-whites. I've hired more black people in my organization than the black people. I choose to see people as individuals, not based on the color of one's skin, which you seem to be obsessed with.

No it doesn't. And stop lying about seeing people as individuals, not the skin color. If you actually did that, you would not consider the program as teaching whites to feel guilty for existing.

What is it teaching then? I admit I have trouble with the concept that I am guilty for something I had nothing to do with, something that is vague and poorly defined but based on my skin color, not my actions. It seems to my mind a way judging me by race. I got educated, not by merit but because of white privilege. I was promoted, not because of my hard work but because of my skin color.

I see the opposite here all the time, where blacks (even our former president) Have their achievements diminished, not based on merit but skin color through affirmative action.

What I don’t see is any difference.

First off, it teaches that others besides whites have done things. Coyote, whites are where they are now because of things you say you had nothing to do with. And this is not about teaching whites to feel guilty. That is what you have been race pimped to believe. In this complete teaching of history, the positive accomplishments of whites have not been ignored. I did not create white preference, the system did. Non whites are not the ones that created the term. A white female did. And I don't think you have any doubt that there is male privilege and specifically white male privilege. The facts support that just as the facts support white racial preferences. So do I complain about how men are being made to feel guilty? Do I endeavor to make the changes I am required to based on the facts I am shown? Or do I spend years whining in every forum available about how I should not feel guilty about what I didn't do like most of these guys do.

Institutional racism has been considered by the supreme court to be a continuing problem. This means whites today, right now, benefit only because of their skin color. As long as whites refuse to do what is necessary to completely end institutional racism, you are doing the same thing that was done in the past.

Coyote, things are not the same for blacks and whites. Racism has not ended, the method of exclusion is not as overt, but it still happens. Because of this, whites do get into college because of white privilege and do get hired and promoted based on skin color. It is a false equivalence to compare that to what you said in your last sentence.

So in the end, why do I have to learn I descend from people who were made to be slaves but whites think they have the right to feel butthurt because there are some not so nice events in their history?

You make good points, but I guess, from where I am coming from, I tend to see a lot of generalizing whites as if they are all the same and think the same. I dislike seeing this targeting of any group.

And I take issue with this:

Institutional racism has been considered by the supreme court to be a continuing problem. This means whites today, right now, benefit only because of their skin color. As long as whites refuse to do what is necessary to completely end institutional racism, you are doing the same thing that was done in the past.

I don’t disagree with the concept of institutionalized racism. I do, however, disagree strongly with the idea that every white personal owes his or her success solely to skin color. To me, that is as offensive as the claim that blacks owe their success solely due to affirmative action.

You are talking about whites as a monolithic entity that is failing to do what is necessary...yet they are not monolithic, and I think it is wrong to judge them in that way.

What do you think they should be doing that they are not?

I don't think of whites like that, but when I have to hear whites telling me how blacks have been given everything and don't want to work, the reality that American history show us must be displayed. I realize you are a good, decent and fair minded person, but the reality is that this system has and continues to provide whites with preferences others don't get. And coyote to say the only reason blacks make it is due to AA is factually incorrect, white racial preferences are fact. Affirmative Action was not just for blacks and whites have benefitted the most from the policy. Specifically white women.

http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2014/03/11/white-women-affirmative-action/

Now why is it up to me to tell you what whites need to be doing? I think that If you realize what was done in the past and are aware of the fact that racism exists today, you might start understanding how people like me say what I do. According to every white person I have met since I was in college 1979-1984, 1986-88, no white person descended from slave owners, none had anything to do with segregation, none of them have ever benefitted from being white, they all had it worse than blacks, and they have faced racism that makes Jim Crow look like Christmas. I was told in 1973 in 7th grade that racism was over, even as 2 days later I got into a fight with a white kid who decided I was the n word. So I think that after over 40 years of hearing excuses you have to understand why I might just be a little low on patience.

A person has to get an opportunity to work before they can say they didn't make it due to color but because of hard work. And this is the part you have missed Coyote, when you talk about how unfair it is for people to say certain things about whites.

 

[IM2]

There are no such programs. In ANY country. This narrative you spin here is a load of crap. Whites did some cruel shit up there that was wrong. So face the music of the song you wrote. You benefit from it and want to brag about how you did it. But you lack the morals to see how it was wrong. But you're real quick to point out other places as evil that did far less.

This program that is going on right now? That's where I'm from.

Of course white people did bad shit. So did black people. So did yellow people. All people have done bad shit. Get over it.

A society can only be just in its time. Being told that you are guilty because of your skin color is no different than being told your inferior because of your skin color.

No, that crap ain't going to cut it. There is no program created anywhere that makes whites feel guilty for existing. Now you start naming me the white countries colonized by blacks, browns and yellows. Whites today are still doing the same types of shit. And since nobody is telling whites to be guilty for being white it is not the same as being told you are inferior. And it's not the same regardless. What this program is doing is trying to help move your society to just. Why do whites control a nation they do not originate from? You don't want to face that and in order for your society to become just in your time, you have to.

So grow up. You don't get to do 300 years of wrong then have a tantrum because you're criticized for it. And don't tell that tired lie about how you didn't do it, because it's still being done.

That billboard, that message, is trite verbiage cooked up by an intense group of academics and activists who can't take their heads out of their asses long enough to smell the coffee. I don't know what Toro is saying, but what I'm saying is LET'S JUST SPEAK ENGLISH HERE. If I hear that "I must check my privilege and my racism" one more time I'm going to vomit. Yes, it is meant well. I know that, but can we please get off the high horse with all this specious rhetoric?

Yeah, I'm lucky I was born white, and not poor, and in 1955 so I could take advantage of the many, many good people who have gone before me and made my life half way easy without trying real hard. I don't know what it is like to be black because I'm white. I read about it and I listen and I do my best to understand, but I'm not black or Native or Asian or any thing other than plain old WASP and I do the fuckin' best I can. I've been accused of saying racist things a few times in this hyper sensitive age, and I've learned from it, but it was never meant as disrespect. Do I feel guilty for being white? I don't think so. I DO feel uncomfortable and on pins and needles when I meet someone black or Native because I'm afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing and then I seem phony because I'm not relaxed and probably that shows.

We can all be a bridge. The government intervened to try and HELP but as always they sound like morons while real shit keeps happening. I don't agree with ignoring it when the people in an area are complaining of a lot of racism. But getting a hoity toity lecture about "checking white privilege" ain't the way to cut it.

Whites are the ones saying that oldlady. And that's certainly is going to be agreed with by blacks when whites keep telling us how much extra shit they think we get.

This is not some hypersensitive age. It is an age where non whites are tired of the crap. If you are scared of saying the wrong thing to a person of color, you need a self inventory. I have been in situations where I have been the only black surrounded by whites many times. I have never been Irish, British, German, etc., or any other thing but a black man and I never worried about saying something that would be disrespectful of whites. So why do some whites have that problem? Why is it that whites act like the world will come to an end if they can't say the n word to a black persons face?

I don't see anything wrong with that program. To many here anything done that has the goal of reducing racism in whites amounts to a make whites feel guilty about existing program. These guys here spend each and every damn day posting pages of overt racist garbage and yet they want to tell everybody how they should not be made to feel guilty for things they haven't done. While they are doing it.

When does the lying stop?

Because the reality of it is, it does. That person gets branded a racist for using that word against a black person. There are two standards. I grew up learning the only meaning was as a slur, and a bad one.

No, there are not 2 standards. There is only one meaning. Whites call themselves a lot of racially or ethnically derogatory words and we don't feel like the world is coming to and end if we can't call an Irish person a slur. So why do whites feel they must be free to walk up to our faces and use that word?

 

[Coyote]

This program that is going on right now? That's where I'm from.

Of course white people did bad shit. So did black people. So did yellow people. All people have done bad shit. Get over it.

A society can only be just in its time. Being told that you are guilty because of your skin color is no different than being told your inferior because of your skin color.

No, that crap ain't going to cut it. There is no program created anywhere that makes whites feel guilty for existing. Now you start naming me the white countries colonized by blacks, browns and yellows. Whites today are still doing the same types of shit. And since nobody is telling whites to be guilty for being white it is not the same as being told you are inferior. And it's not the same regardless. What this program is doing is trying to help move your society to just. Why do whites control a nation they do not originate from? You don't want to face that and in order for your society to become just in your time, you have to.

So grow up. You don't get to do 300 years of wrong then have a tantrum because you're criticized for it. And don't tell that tired lie about how you didn't do it, because it's still being done.

That billboard, that message, is trite verbiage cooked up by an intense group of academics and activists who can't take their heads out of their asses long enough to smell the coffee. I don't know what Toro is saying, but what I'm saying is LET'S JUST SPEAK ENGLISH HERE. If I hear that "I must check my privilege and my racism" one more time I'm going to vomit. Yes, it is meant well. I know that, but can we please get off the high horse with all this specious rhetoric?

Yeah, I'm lucky I was born white, and not poor, and in 1955 so I could take advantage of the many, many good people who have gone before me and made my life half way easy without trying real hard. I don't know what it is like to be black because I'm white. I read about it and I listen and I do my best to understand, but I'm not black or Native or Asian or any thing other than plain old WASP and I do the fuckin' best I can. I've been accused of saying racist things a few times in this hyper sensitive age, and I've learned from it, but it was never meant as disrespect. Do I feel guilty for being white? I don't think so. I DO feel uncomfortable and on pins and needles when I meet someone black or Native because I'm afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing and then I seem phony because I'm not relaxed and probably that shows.

We can all be a bridge. The government intervened to try and HELP but as always they sound like morons while real shit keeps happening. I don't agree with ignoring it when the people in an area are complaining of a lot of racism. But getting a hoity toity lecture about "checking white privilege" ain't the way to cut it.

Whites are the ones saying that oldlady. And that's certainly is going to be agreed with by blacks when whites keep telling us how much extra shit they think we get.

This is not some hypersensitive age. It is an age where non whites are tired of the crap. If you are scared of saying the wrong thing to a person of color, you need a self inventory. I have been in situations where I have been the only black surrounded by whites many times. I have never been Irish, British, German, etc., or any other thing but a black man and I never worried about saying something that would be disrespectful of whites. So why do some whites have that problem? Why is it that whites act like the world will come to an end if they can't say the n word to a black persons face?

I don't see anything wrong with that program. To many here anything done that has the goal of reducing racism in whites amounts to a make whites feel guilty about existing program. These guys here spend each and every damn day posting pages of overt racist garbage and yet they want to tell everybody how they should not be made to feel guilty for things they haven't done. While they are doing it.

When does the lying stop?

Because the reality of it is, it does. That person gets branded a racist for using that word against a black person. There are two standards. I grew up learning the only meaning was as a slur, and a bad one.

No, there are not 2 standards. There is only one meaning. Whites call themselves a lot of racially or ethnically derogatory words and we don't feel like the world is coming to and end if we can't call an Irish person a slur. So why do whites feel they must be free to walk up to our faces and use that word?[/QUOTE]

No idea. It is a slur. I do t want to use it. But is frustrating that it is ok for some to use it but not others. At the very least, it gives the appearance of double standards.

 

[MizMolly]

The "privileged" are those getting the free shit - by either government handouts, looting or mugging.

Yep, white people.

What free shit are whites alone getting?

 

[IM2]

No, that crap ain't going to cut it. There is no program created anywhere that makes whites feel guilty for existing. Now you start naming me the white countries colonized by blacks, browns and yellows. Whites today are still doing the same types of shit. And since nobody is telling whites to be guilty for being white it is not the same as being told you are inferior. And it's not the same regardless. What this program is doing is trying to help move your society to just. Why do whites control a nation they do not originate from? You don't want to face that and in order for your society to become just in your time, you have to.

So grow up. You don't get to do 300 years of wrong then have a tantrum because you're criticized for it. And don't tell that tired lie about how you didn't do it, because it's still being done.

That billboard, that message, is trite verbiage cooked up by an intense group of academics and activists who can't take their heads out of their asses long enough to smell the coffee. I don't know what Toro is saying, but what I'm saying is LET'S JUST SPEAK ENGLISH HERE. If I hear that "I must check my privilege and my racism" one more time I'm going to vomit. Yes, it is meant well. I know that, but can we please get off the high horse with all this specious rhetoric?

Yeah, I'm lucky I was born white, and not poor, and in 1955 so I could take advantage of the many, many good people who have gone before me and made my life half way easy without trying real hard. I don't know what it is like to be black because I'm white. I read about it and I listen and I do my best to understand, but I'm not black or Native or Asian or any thing other than plain old WASP and I do the fuckin' best I can. I've been accused of saying racist things a few times in this hyper sensitive age, and I've learned from it, but it was never meant as disrespect. Do I feel guilty for being white? I don't think so. I DO feel uncomfortable and on pins and needles when I meet someone black or Native because I'm afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing and then I seem phony because I'm not relaxed and probably that shows.

We can all be a bridge. The government intervened to try and HELP but as always they sound like morons while real shit keeps happening. I don't agree with ignoring it when the people in an area are complaining of a lot of racism. But getting a hoity toity lecture about "checking white privilege" ain't the way to cut it.

Whites are the ones saying that oldlady. And that's certainly is going to be agreed with by blacks when whites keep telling us how much extra shit they think we get.

This is not some hypersensitive age. It is an age where non whites are tired of the crap. If you are scared of saying the wrong thing to a person of color, you need a self inventory. I have been in situations where I have been the only black surrounded by whites many times. I have never been Irish, British, German, etc., or any other thing but a black man and I never worried about saying something that would be disrespectful of whites. So why do some whites have that problem? Why is it that whites act like the world will come to an end if they can't say the n word to a black persons face?

I don't see anything wrong with that program. To many here anything done that has the goal of reducing racism in whites amounts to a make whites feel guilty about existing program. These guys here spend each and every damn day posting pages of overt racist garbage and yet they want to tell everybody how they should not be made to feel guilty for things they haven't done. While they are doing it.

When does the lying stop?

Because the reality of it is, it does. That person gets branded a racist for using that word against a black person. There are two standards. I grew up learning the only meaning was as a slur, and a bad one.

No, there are not 2 standards. There is only one meaning. Whites call themselves a lot of racially or ethnically derogatory words and we don't feel like the world is coming to and end if we can't call an Irish person a slur. So why do whites feel they must be free to walk up to our faces and use that word?[/QUOTE]

No idea. It is a slur. I do t want to use it. But is frustrating that it is ok for some to use it but not others. At the very least, it gives the appearance of double standards.

I don't use the word myself either.

Again, there are slurs whites use among themselves and we are not complaining how frustrating or unfair it is that we can't use them or that it's a double standard.

 

[Coyote]

That billboard, that message, is trite verbiage cooked up by an intense group of academics and activists who can't take their heads out of their asses long enough to smell the coffee. I don't know what Toro is saying, but what I'm saying is LET'S JUST SPEAK ENGLISH HERE. If I hear that "I must check my privilege and my racism" one more time I'm going to vomit. Yes, it is meant well. I know that, but can we please get off the high horse with all this specious rhetoric?

Yeah, I'm lucky I was born white, and not poor, and in 1955 so I could take advantage of the many, many good people who have gone before me and made my life half way easy without trying real hard. I don't know what it is like to be black because I'm white. I read about it and I listen and I do my best to understand, but I'm not black or Native or Asian or any thing other than plain old WASP and I do the fuckin' best I can. I've been accused of saying racist things a few times in this hyper sensitive age, and I've learned from it, but it was never meant as disrespect. Do I feel guilty for being white? I don't think so. I DO feel uncomfortable and on pins and needles when I meet someone black or Native because I'm afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing and then I seem phony because I'm not relaxed and probably that shows.

We can all be a bridge. The government intervened to try and HELP but as always they sound like morons while real shit keeps happening. I don't agree with ignoring it when the people in an area are complaining of a lot of racism. But getting a hoity toity lecture about "checking white privilege" ain't the way to cut it.

Whites are the ones saying that oldlady. And that's certainly is going to be agreed with by blacks when whites keep telling us how much extra shit they think we get.

This is not some hypersensitive age. It is an age where non whites are tired of the crap. If you are scared of saying the wrong thing to a person of color, you need a self inventory. I have been in situations where I have been the only black surrounded by whites many times. I have never been Irish, British, German, etc., or any other thing but a black man and I never worried about saying something that would be disrespectful of whites. So why do some whites have that problem? Why is it that whites act like the world will come to an end if they can't say the n word to a black persons face?

I don't see anything wrong with that program. To many here anything done that has the goal of reducing racism in whites amounts to a make whites feel guilty about existing program. These guys here spend each and every damn day posting pages of overt racist garbage and yet they want to tell everybody how they should not be made to feel guilty for things they haven't done. While they are doing it.

When does the lying stop?

Because the reality of it is, it does. That person gets branded a racist for using that word against a black person. There are two standards. I grew up learning the only meaning was as a slur, and a bad one.

No, there are not 2 standards. There is only one meaning. Whites call themselves a lot of racially or ethnically derogatory words and we don't feel like the world is coming to and end if we can't call an Irish person a slur. So why do whites feel they must be free to walk up to our faces and use that word?[/QUOTE]

No idea. It is a slur. I do t want to use it. But is frustrating that it is ok for some to use it but not others. At the very least, it gives the appearance of double standards.

I don't use the word myself either.

Again, there are slurs whites use among themselves and we are not complaining how frustrating or unfair it is that we can't use them or that it's a double standard.

White slurs do whites use among themselves that a black person would be criticized for?

The world of slurs is not one I venture into that often.

 

[IM2]

Whites are the ones saying that oldlady. And that's certainly is going to be agreed with by blacks when whites keep telling us how much extra shit they think we get.

This is not some hypersensitive age. It is an age where non whites are tired of the crap. If you are scared of saying the wrong thing to a person of color, you need a self inventory. I have been in situations where I have been the only black surrounded by whites many times. I have never been Irish, British, German, etc., or any other thing but a black man and I never worried about saying something that would be disrespectful of whites. So why do some whites have that problem? Why is it that whites act like the world will come to an end if they can't say the n word to a black persons face?

I don't see anything wrong with that program. To many here anything done that has the goal of reducing racism in whites amounts to a make whites feel guilty about existing program. These guys here spend each and every damn day posting pages of overt racist garbage and yet they want to tell everybody how they should not be made to feel guilty for things they haven't done. While they are doing it.

When does the lying stop?

Because the reality of it is, it does. That person gets branded a racist for using that word against a black person. There are two standards. I grew up learning the only meaning was as a slur, and a bad one.

No, there are not 2 standards. There is only one meaning. Whites call themselves a lot of racially or ethnically derogatory words and we don't feel like the world is coming to and end if we can't call an Irish person a slur. So why do whites feel they must be free to walk up to our faces and use that word?[/QUOTE]

No idea. It is a slur. I do t want to use it. But is frustrating that it is ok for some to use it but not others. At the very least, it gives the appearance of double standards.

I don't use the word myself either.

Again, there are slurs whites use among themselves and we are not complaining how frustrating or unfair it is that we can't use them or that it's a double standard.

White slurs do whites use among themselves that a black person would be criticized for?

The world of slurs is not one I venture into that often.

In this forum the word white is considered a racial slur.

So you have never heard the word pollock, for example.

 

[OldLady]

There are no such programs. In ANY country. This narrative you spin here is a load of crap. Whites did some cruel shit up there that was wrong. So face the music of the song you wrote. You benefit from it and want to brag about how you did it. But you lack the morals to see how it was wrong. But you're real quick to point out other places as evil that did far less.

This program that is going on right now? That's where I'm from.

Of course white people did bad shit. So did black people. So did yellow people. All people have done bad shit. Get over it.

A society can only be just in its time. Being told that you are guilty because of your skin color is no different than being told your inferior because of your skin color.

No, that crap ain't going to cut it. There is no program created anywhere that makes whites feel guilty for existing. Now you start naming me the white countries colonized by blacks, browns and yellows. Whites today are still doing the same types of shit. And since nobody is telling whites to be guilty for being white it is not the same as being told you are inferior. And it's not the same regardless. What this program is doing is trying to help move your society to just. Why do whites control a nation they do not originate from? You don't want to face that and in order for your society to become just in your time, you have to.

So grow up. You don't get to do 300 years of wrong then have a tantrum because you're criticized for it. And don't tell that tired lie about how you didn't do it, because it's still being done.

That billboard, that message, is trite verbiage cooked up by an intense group of academics and activists who can't take their heads out of their asses long enough to smell the coffee. I don't know what Toro is saying, but what I'm saying is LET'S JUST SPEAK ENGLISH HERE. If I hear that "I must check my privilege and my racism" one more time I'm going to vomit. Yes, it is meant well. I know that, but can we please get off the high horse with all this specious rhetoric?

Yeah, I'm lucky I was born white, and not poor, and in 1955 so I could take advantage of the many, many good people who have gone before me and made my life half way easy without trying real hard. I don't know what it is like to be black because I'm white. I read about it and I listen and I do my best to understand, but I'm not black or Native or Asian or any thing other than plain old WASP and I do the fuckin' best I can. I've been accused of saying racist things a few times in this hyper sensitive age, and I've learned from it, but it was never meant as disrespect. Do I feel guilty for being white? I don't think so. I DO feel uncomfortable and on pins and needles when I meet someone black or Native because I'm afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing and then I seem phony because I'm not relaxed and probably that shows.

We can all be a bridge. The government intervened to try and HELP but as always they sound like morons while real shit keeps happening. I don't agree with ignoring it when the people in an area are complaining of a lot of racism. But getting a hoity toity lecture about "checking white privilege" ain't the way to cut it.

Whites are the ones saying that oldlady. And that's certainly is going to be agreed with by blacks when whites keep telling us how much extra shit they think we get.

This is not some hypersensitive age. It is an age where non whites are tired of the crap. If you are scared of saying the wrong thing to a person of color, you need a self inventory. I have been in situations where I have been the only black surrounded by whites many times. I have never been Irish, British, German, etc., or any other thing but a black man and I never worried about saying something that would be disrespectful of whites. So why do some whites have that problem? Why is it that whites act like the world will come to an end if they can't say the n word to a black persons face?

I don't see anything wrong with that program. To many here anything done that has the goal of reducing racism in whites amounts to a make whites feel guilty about existing program. These guys here spend each and every damn day posting pages of overt racist garbage and yet they want to tell everybody how they should not be made to feel guilty for things they haven't done. While they are doing it.

When does the lying stop?

Maybe I do need a "self inventory." We're never too old to keep learning or growing. Thanks for taking my honesty and chewing me out for it. I always appreciate that.

 

[impuretrash]

There are no such programs. In ANY country. This narrative you spin here is a load of crap. Whites did some cruel shit up there that was wrong. So face the music of the song you wrote. You benefit from it and want to brag about how you did it. But you lack the morals to see how it was wrong. But you're real quick to point out other places as evil that did far less.

This program that is going on right now? That's where I'm from.

Of course white people did bad shit. So did black people. So did yellow people. All people have done bad shit. Get over it.

A society can only be just in its time. Being told that you are guilty because of your skin color is no different than being told your inferior because of your skin color.

No, that crap ain't going to cut it. There is no program created anywhere that makes whites feel guilty for existing. Now you start naming me the white countries colonized by blacks, browns and yellows. Whites today are still doing the same types of shit. And since nobody is telling whites to be guilty for being white it is not the same as being told you are inferior. And it's not the same regardless. What this program is doing is trying to help move your society to just. Why do whites control a nation they do not originate from? You don't want to face that and in order for your society to become just in your time, you have to.

So grow up. You don't get to do 300 years of wrong then have a tantrum because you're criticized for it. And don't tell that tired lie about how you didn't do it, because it's still being done.

That billboard, that message, is trite verbiage cooked up by an intense group of academics and activists who can't take their heads out of their asses long enough to smell the coffee. I don't know what Toro is saying, but what I'm saying is LET'S JUST SPEAK ENGLISH HERE. If I hear that "I must check my privilege and my racism" one more time I'm going to vomit. Yes, it is meant well. I know that, but can we please get off the high horse with all this specious rhetoric?

Yeah, I'm lucky I was born white, and not poor, and in 1955 so I could take advantage of the many, many good people who have gone before me and made my life half way easy without trying real hard. I don't know what it is like to be black because I'm white. I read about it and I listen and I do my best to understand, but I'm not black or Native or Asian or any thing other than plain old WASP and I do the fuckin' best I can. I've been accused of saying racist things a few times in this hyper sensitive age, and I've learned from it, but it was never meant as disrespect. Do I feel guilty for being white? I don't think so. I DO feel uncomfortable and on pins and needles when I meet someone black or Native because I'm afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing and then I seem phony because I'm not relaxed and probably that shows.

We can all be a bridge. The government intervened to try and HELP but as always they sound like morons while real shit keeps happening. I don't agree with ignoring it when the people in an area are complaining of a lot of racism. But getting a hoity toity lecture about "checking white privilege" ain't the way to cut it.

Whites are the ones saying that oldlady. And that's certainly is going to be agreed with by blacks when whites keep telling us how much extra shit they think we get.

This is not some hypersensitive age. It is an age where non whites are tired of the crap. If you are scared of saying the wrong thing to a person of color, you need a self inventory. I have been in situations where I have been the only black surrounded by whites many times. I have never been Irish, British, German, etc., or any other thing but a black man and I never worried about saying something that would be disrespectful of whites. So why do some whites have that problem? Why is it that whites act like the world will come to an end if they can't say the n word to a black persons face?

I don't see anything wrong with that program. To many here anything done that has the goal of reducing racism in whites amounts to a make whites feel guilty about existing program. These guys here spend each and every damn day posting pages of overt racist garbage and yet they want to tell everybody how they should not be made to feel guilty for things they haven't done. While they are doing it.

When does the lying stop?

Maybe I do need a "self inventory." We're never too old to keep learning or growing. Thanks for taking my honesty and chewing me out for it. I always appreciate that.

If you don't sacrifice your dignity on the altar of political correctness and turn yourself into a parody like the douchebag on the billboard, you're part of the problem.

 

[OldLady]

And that all that Jim Williams did. He simply acknowledged the sentiment that you expressed. I saw no apology in his statement.

The question then becomes, why does a personal statement acknowledging one's privilege trigger so many people, if not from guilt?

Because it is a program organized by a government and implies that all white people should be guilty of their existence.

Total nonsense, that implication is not there. You're merely projecting.

Okay, explain what "I have to acknowledge my own racist attitudes," says to you.
He starts out by defining himself as "a white, heterosexual, able-bodied male" which is clearly the group he is talking to. The man is clearly saying he has racist attitudes, else he wouldn't have to acknowledge them. Toro isn't projecting. He says he doesn't have racist attitudes and he resents being clumped with assholes who do.

 

[Correll]

There are no such programs. In ANY country. This narrative you spin here is a load of crap. Whites did some cruel shit up there that was wrong. So face the music of the song you wrote. You benefit from it and want to brag about how you did it. But you lack the morals to see how it was wrong. But you're real quick to point out other places as evil that did far less.

This program that is going on right now? That's where I'm from.

Of course white people did bad shit. So did black people. So did yellow people. All people have done bad shit. Get over it.

A society can only be just in its time. Being told that you are guilty because of your skin color is no different than being told your inferior because of your skin color.

 

[Tehon]

And that all that Jim Williams did. He simply acknowledged the sentiment that you expressed. I saw no apology in his statement.

The question then becomes, why does a personal statement acknowledging one's privilege trigger so many people, if not from guilt?

Because it is a program organized by a government and implies that all white people should be guilty of their existence.

Total nonsense, that implication is not there. You're merely projecting.

Okay, explain what "I have to acknowledge my own racist attitudes," says to you.
He starts out by defining himself as "a white, heterosexual, able-bodied male" which is clearly the group he is talking to. The man is clearly saying he has racist attitudes, else he wouldn't have to acknowledge them. Toro isn't projecting. He says he doesn't have racist attitudes and he resents being clumped with assholes who do.

That statement is a personal confession. It does not implicate anyone but the speaker.

No one clumped the OP in with anyone. Why would he feel like he was if he wasn't projecting?

I am a white, heterosexual, able bodied male. If he was speaking to me, which he wasn't as I don't live in that community, but if he was, I would congratulate him, move on my my way and not think twice about it. I certainly wouldn't feel guilty or resentful.

 

[OldLady]

And that all that Jim Williams did. He simply acknowledged the sentiment that you expressed. I saw no apology in his statement.

The question then becomes, why does a personal statement acknowledging one's privilege trigger so many people, if not from guilt?

Because it is a program organized by a government and implies that all white people should be guilty of their existence.

Total nonsense, that implication is not there. You're merely projecting.

Okay, explain what "I have to acknowledge my own racist attitudes," says to you.
He starts out by defining himself as "a white, heterosexual, able-bodied male" which is clearly the group he is talking to. The man is clearly saying he has racist attitudes, else he wouldn't have to acknowledge them. Toro isn't projecting. He says he doesn't have racist attitudes and he resents being clumped with assholes who do.

That statement is a personal confession. It does not implicate anyone but the speaker.

No one clumped the OP in with anyone. Why would he feel like he was if he wasn't projecting?

I am a white, heterosexual, able bodied male. If he was speaking to me, which he wasn't as I don't live in that community, but if he was, I would congratulate him, move on my my way and not think twice about it. I certainly wouldn't feel guilty or resentful.

I dunno, Tehon. I believe you when you say that is how you would take it, but I think it's equally understandable to feel it applies to the group. The reason is the way he starts out with that demographic lingo. His picture pretty much tells us all of that without calling up the majority share of the population. Whoever did this ad campaign .... I hope they didn't charge much.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The "privileged" are those getting the free shit - by either government handouts, looting or mugging.

Yep, white people.

What free shit are whites alone getting?

White folks have received free shit exclusively, from none other than FDR. That's a fact.

.

 

[Coyote]

That program is telling whites to feel guilty for being white. You choose not to see it because you're so warped by race and being a victim.

I've lectured at an HBU. The group I lead is mostly non-whites. I've hired more black people in my organization than the black people. I choose to see people as individuals, not based on the color of one's skin, which you seem to be obsessed with.

No it doesn't. And stop lying about seeing people as individuals, not the skin color. If you actually did that, you would not consider the program as teaching whites to feel guilty for existing.

What is it teaching then? I admit I have trouble with the concept that I am guilty for something I had nothing to do with, something that is vague and poorly defined but based on my skin color, not my actions. It seems to my mind a way judging me by race. I got educated, not by merit but because of white privilege. I was promoted, not because of my hard work but because of my skin color.

I see the opposite here all the time, where blacks (even our former president) Have their achievements diminished, not based on merit but skin color through affirmative action.

What I don’t see is any difference.

First off, it teaches that others besides whites have done things. Coyote, whites are where they are now because of things you say you had nothing to do with. And this is not about teaching whites to feel guilty. That is what you have been race pimped to believe. In this complete teaching of history, the positive accomplishments of whites have not been ignored. I did not create white preference, the system did. Non whites are not the ones that created the term. A white female did. And I don't think you have any doubt that there is male privilege and specifically white male privilege. The facts support that just as the facts support white racial preferences. So do I complain about how men are being made to feel guilty? Do I endeavor to make the changes I am required to based on the facts I am shown? Or do I spend years whining in every forum available about how I should not feel guilty about what I didn't do like most of these guys do.

Institutional racism has been considered by the supreme court to be a continuing problem. This means whites today, right now, benefit only because of their skin color. As long as whites refuse to do what is necessary to completely end institutional racism, you are doing the same thing that was done in the past.

Coyote, things are not the same for blacks and whites. Racism has not ended, the method of exclusion is not as overt, but it still happens. Because of this, whites do get into college because of white privilege and do get hired and promoted based on skin color. It is a false equivalence to compare that to what you said in your last sentence.

So in the end, why do I have to learn I descend from people who were made to be slaves but whites think they have the right to feel butthurt because there are some not so nice events in their history?

You make good points, but I guess, from where I am coming from, I tend to see a lot of generalizing whites as if they are all the same and think the same. I dislike seeing this targeting of any group.

And I take issue with this:

Institutional racism has been considered by the supreme court to be a continuing problem. This means whites today, right now, benefit only because of their skin color. As long as whites refuse to do what is necessary to completely end institutional racism, you are doing the same thing that was done in the past.

I don’t disagree with the concept of institutionalized racism. I do, however, disagree strongly with the idea that every white personal owes his or her success solely to skin color. To me, that is as offensive as the claim that blacks owe their success solely due to affirmative action.

You are talking about whites as a monolithic entity that is failing to do what is necessary...yet they are not monolithic, and I think it is wrong to judge them in that way.

What do you think they should be doing that they are not?

I don't think of whites like that, but when I have to hear whites telling me how blacks have been given everything and don't want to work, the reality that American history show us must be displayed. I realize you are a good, decent and fair minded person, but the reality is that this system has and continues to provide whites with preferences others don't get. And coyote to say the only reason blacks make it is due to AA is factually incorrect, white racial preferences are fact. Affirmative Action was not just for blacks and whites have benefitted the most from the policy. Specifically white women.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

Now why is it up to me to tell you what whites need to be doing? I think that If you realize what was done in the past and are aware of the fact that racism exists today, you might start understanding how people like me say what I do. According to every white person I have met since I was in college 1979-1984, 1986-88, no white person descended from slave owners, none had anything to do with segregation, none of them have ever benefitted from being white, they all had it worse than blacks, and they have faced racism that makes Jim Crow look like Christmas. I was told in 1973 in 7th grade that racism was over, even as 2 days later I got into a fight with a white kid who decided I was the n word. So I think that after over 40 years of hearing excuses you have to understand why I might just be a little low on patience.

It is up to you, because you made the declaration that it needs to be done, so it is reasonable for me to ask what you think should be done.

I also think each person needs to be taken as an individual, and these conversations tend to make sweeping generalizations on both sides.

Does racism still exist in this country? Yes, it does, I won’t argue that. But many problems faced by black communities are caused by multiple and complex factors, which in some cases may not be racism but the legacy of racism perpetuated by economic disparities.

I agree with your statements on AA, that it wasn’t only blacks that benefited. The point I was making is people who use that argument completely minimize the contribution of merit, as if that person could not possibly have accomplished what he did on the basis of merit. And that same argument can be made for white privilege.

If you were to ask ME, as a white person, what “white people” should do, I would have a difficult time answering, because I am not seeing it through the same lens you do exactly.

I see a problem such as this for example: many poor neighborhoods tend to be lacking in good infrastructure, good schools, safe programs for youth, and they tend to be the places where industrial dumps and landfills get located, and other sorts of things that affect health and quality of life. Often these areas are predominately black, but not always. The people living there lack political power and funding. So...racism could be playing a role here but how would you address the issues? And the issues themselves faced by many poor communitees. Do you address it from the aspect of race? Or, do organize, publicize, attract attention and investment from a community perspective?

.

A person has to get an opportunity to work before they can say they didn't make it due to color but because of hard work. And this is the part you have missed Coyote, when you talk about how unfair it is for people to say certain things about whites.

I agree, but it is still unfair to make statements about white privalege not merit, being the main driving factor.

 

[Coyote]

Because the reality of it is, it does. That person gets branded a racist for using that word against a black person. There are two standards. I grew up learning the only meaning was as a slur, and a bad one.

No, there are not 2 standards. There is only one meaning. Whites call themselves a lot of racially or ethnically derogatory words and we don't feel like the world is coming to and end if we can't call an Irish person a slur. So why do whites feel they must be free to walk up to our faces and use that word?[/QUOTE]

No idea. It is a slur. I do t want to use it. But is frustrating that it is ok for some to use it but not others. At the very least, it gives the appearance of double standards.

I don't use the word myself either.

Again, there are slurs whites use among themselves and we are not complaining how frustrating or unfair it is that we can't use them or that it's a double standard.

White slurs do whites use among themselves that a black person would be criticized for?

The world of slurs is not one I venture into that often.

In this forum the word white is considered a racial slur.

So you have never heard the word pollock, for example.

I have never heard white as a racial slur. Polock is a slur aimed at a person of polish descent...again, it is not considered ok for one group to use but not another.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

No it doesn't. And stop lying about seeing people as individuals, not the skin color. If you actually did that, you would not consider the program as teaching whites to feel guilty for existing.

What is it teaching then? I admit I have trouble with the concept that I am guilty for something I had nothing to do with, something that is vague and poorly defined but based on my skin color, not my actions. It seems to my mind a way judging me by race. I got educated, not by merit but because of white privilege. I was promoted, not because of my hard work but because of my skin color.

I see the opposite here all the time, where blacks (even our former president) Have their achievements diminished, not based on merit but skin color through affirmative action.

What I don’t see is any difference.

First off, it teaches that others besides whites have done things. Coyote, whites are where they are now because of things you say you had nothing to do with. And this is not about teaching whites to feel guilty. That is what you have been race pimped to believe. In this complete teaching of history, the positive accomplishments of whites have not been ignored. I did not create white preference, the system did. Non whites are not the ones that created the term. A white female did. And I don't think you have any doubt that there is male privilege and specifically white male privilege. The facts support that just as the facts support white racial preferences. So do I complain about how men are being made to feel guilty? Do I endeavor to make the changes I am required to based on the facts I am shown? Or do I spend years whining in every forum available about how I should not feel guilty about what I didn't do like most of these guys do.

Institutional racism has been considered by the supreme court to be a continuing problem. This means whites today, right now, benefit only because of their skin color. As long as whites refuse to do what is necessary to completely end institutional racism, you are doing the same thing that was done in the past.

Coyote, things are not the same for blacks and whites. Racism has not ended, the method of exclusion is not as overt, but it still happens. Because of this, whites do get into college because of white privilege and do get hired and promoted based on skin color. It is a false equivalence to compare that to what you said in your last sentence.

So in the end, why do I have to learn I descend from people who were made to be slaves but whites think they have the right to feel butthurt because there are some not so nice events in their history?

You make good points, but I guess, from where I am coming from, I tend to see a lot of generalizing whites as if they are all the same and think the same. I dislike seeing this targeting of any group.

And I take issue with this:

Institutional racism has been considered by the supreme court to be a continuing problem. This means whites today, right now, benefit only because of their skin color. As long as whites refuse to do what is necessary to completely end institutional racism, you are doing the same thing that was done in the past.

I don’t disagree with the concept of institutionalized racism. I do, however, disagree strongly with the idea that every white personal owes his or her success solely to skin color. To me, that is as offensive as the claim that blacks owe their success solely due to affirmative action.

You are talking about whites as a monolithic entity that is failing to do what is necessary...yet they are not monolithic, and I think it is wrong to judge them in that way.

What do you think they should be doing that they are not?

I don't think of whites like that, but when I have to hear whites telling me how blacks have been given everything and don't want to work, the reality that American history show us must be displayed. I realize you are a good, decent and fair minded person, but the reality is that this system has and continues to provide whites with preferences others don't get. And coyote to say the only reason blacks make it is due to AA is factually incorrect, white racial preferences are fact. Affirmative Action was not just for blacks and whites have benefitted the most from the policy. Specifically white women.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

Now why is it up to me to tell you what whites need to be doing? I think that If you realize what was done in the past and are aware of the fact that racism exists today, you might start understanding how people like me say what I do. According to every white person I have met since I was in college 1979-1984, 1986-88, no white person descended from slave owners, none had anything to do with segregation, none of them have ever benefitted from being white, they all had it worse than blacks, and they have faced racism that makes Jim Crow look like Christmas. I was told in 1973 in 7th grade that racism was over, even as 2 days later I got into a fight with a white kid who decided I was the n word. So I think that after over 40 years of hearing excuses you have to understand why I might just be a little low on patience.

It is up to you, because you made the declaration that it needs to be done, so it is reasonable for me to ask what you think should be done.

I also think each person needs to be taken as an individual, and these conversations tend to make sweeping generalizations on both sides.

Does racism still exist in this country? Yes, it does, I won’t argue that. But many problems faced by black communities are caused by multiple and complex factors, which in some cases may not be racism but the legacy of racism perpetuated by economic disparities.

I agree with your statements on AA, that it wasn’t only blacks that benefited. The point I was making is people who use that argument completely minimize the contribution of merit, as if that person could not possibly have accomplished what he did on the basis of merit. And that same argument can be made for white privilege.

If you were to ask ME, as a white person, what “white people” should do, I would have a difficult time answering, because I am not seeing it through the same lens you do exactly.

I see a problem such as this for example: many poor neighborhoods tend to be lacking in good infrastructure, good schools, safe programs for youth, and they tend to be the places where industrial dumps and landfills get located, and other sorts of things that affect health and quality of life. Often these areas are predominately black, but not always. The people living there lack political power and funding. So...racism could be playing a role here but how would you address the issues? And the issues themselves faced by many poor communitees. Do you address it from the aspect of race? Or, do organize, publicize, attract attention and investment from a community perspective?

.

A person has to get an opportunity to work before they can say they didn't make it due to color but because of hard work. And this is the part you have missed Coyote, when you talk about how unfair it is for people to say certain things about whites.

I agree, but it is still unfair to make statements about white privalege not merit, being the main driving factor.

See, IM2. This demonstrates what I have been explaining elsewhere.

Coyote is hardly someone I would call a right-wing white nationalist. The approach is everything. It can't be a blanket statement "you're white, therefore privileged" or a statement that white kids have an advantage just because they are white. What they see and experience will tell them otherwise, and you are left with more resistance, rather than cooperation.

.

 

[IM2]

What is it teaching then? I admit I have trouble with the concept that I am guilty for something I had nothing to do with, something that is vague and poorly defined but based on my skin color, not my actions. It seems to my mind a way judging me by race. I got educated, not by merit but because of white privilege. I was promoted, not because of my hard work but because of my skin color.

I see the opposite here all the time, where blacks (even our former president) Have their achievements diminished, not based on merit but skin color through affirmative action.

What I don’t see is any difference.

First off, it teaches that others besides whites have done things. Coyote, whites are where they are now because of things you say you had nothing to do with. And this is not about teaching whites to feel guilty. That is what you have been race pimped to believe. In this complete teaching of history, the positive accomplishments of whites have not been ignored. I did not create white preference, the system did. Non whites are not the ones that created the term. A white female did. And I don't think you have any doubt that there is male privilege and specifically white male privilege. The facts support that just as the facts support white racial preferences. So do I complain about how men are being made to feel guilty? Do I endeavor to make the changes I am required to based on the facts I am shown? Or do I spend years whining in every forum available about how I should not feel guilty about what I didn't do like most of these guys do.

Institutional racism has been considered by the supreme court to be a continuing problem. This means whites today, right now, benefit only because of their skin color. As long as whites refuse to do what is necessary to completely end institutional racism, you are doing the same thing that was done in the past.

Coyote, things are not the same for blacks and whites. Racism has not ended, the method of exclusion is not as overt, but it still happens. Because of this, whites do get into college because of white privilege and do get hired and promoted based on skin color. It is a false equivalence to compare that to what you said in your last sentence.

So in the end, why do I have to learn I descend from people who were made to be slaves but whites think they have the right to feel butthurt because there are some not so nice events in their history?

You make good points, but I guess, from where I am coming from, I tend to see a lot of generalizing whites as if they are all the same and think the same. I dislike seeing this targeting of any group.

And I take issue with this:

Institutional racism has been considered by the supreme court to be a continuing problem. This means whites today, right now, benefit only because of their skin color. As long as whites refuse to do what is necessary to completely end institutional racism, you are doing the same thing that was done in the past.

I don’t disagree with the concept of institutionalized racism. I do, however, disagree strongly with the idea that every white personal owes his or her success solely to skin color. To me, that is as offensive as the claim that blacks owe their success solely due to affirmative action.

You are talking about whites as a monolithic entity that is failing to do what is necessary...yet they are not monolithic, and I think it is wrong to judge them in that way.

What do you think they should be doing that they are not?

I don't think of whites like that, but when I have to hear whites telling me how blacks have been given everything and don't want to work, the reality that American history show us must be displayed. I realize you are a good, decent and fair minded person, but the reality is that this system has and continues to provide whites with preferences others don't get. And coyote to say the only reason blacks make it is due to AA is factually incorrect, white racial preferences are fact. Affirmative Action was not just for blacks and whites have benefitted the most from the policy. Specifically white women.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

Now why is it up to me to tell you what whites need to be doing? I think that If you realize what was done in the past and are aware of the fact that racism exists today, you might start understanding how people like me say what I do. According to every white person I have met since I was in college 1979-1984, 1986-88, no white person descended from slave owners, none had anything to do with segregation, none of them have ever benefitted from being white, they all had it worse than blacks, and they have faced racism that makes Jim Crow look like Christmas. I was told in 1973 in 7th grade that racism was over, even as 2 days later I got into a fight with a white kid who decided I was the n word. So I think that after over 40 years of hearing excuses you have to understand why I might just be a little low on patience.

It is up to you, because you made the declaration that it needs to be done, so it is reasonable for me to ask what you think should be done.

I also think each person needs to be taken as an individual, and these conversations tend to make sweeping generalizations on both sides.

Does racism still exist in this country? Yes, it does, I won’t argue that. But many problems faced by black communities are caused by multiple and complex factors, which in some cases may not be racism but the legacy of racism perpetuated by economic disparities.

I agree with your statements on AA, that it wasn’t only blacks that benefited. The point I was making is people who use that argument completely minimize the contribution of merit, as if that person could not possibly have accomplished what he did on the basis of merit. And that same argument can be made for white privilege.

If you were to ask ME, as a white person, what “white people” should do, I would have a difficult time answering, because I am not seeing it through the same lens you do exactly.

I see a problem such as this for example: many poor neighborhoods tend to be lacking in good infrastructure, good schools, safe programs for youth, and they tend to be the places where industrial dumps and landfills get located, and other sorts of things that affect health and quality of life. Often these areas are predominately black, but not always. The people living there lack political power and funding. So...racism could be playing a role here but how would you address the issues? And the issues themselves faced by many poor communitees. Do you address it from the aspect of race? Or, do organize, publicize, attract attention and investment from a community perspective?

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A person has to get an opportunity to work before they can say they didn't make it due to color but because of hard work. And this is the part you have missed Coyote, when you talk about how unfair it is for people to say certain things about whites.

I agree, but it is still unfair to make statements about white privalege not merit, being the main driving factor.

See, IM2. This demonstrates what I have been explaining elsewhere.

Coyote is hardly someone I would call a right-wing white nationalist. The approach is everything. It can't be a blanket statement "you're white, therefore privileged" or a statement that white kids have an advantage just because they are white. What they see and experience will tell them otherwise, and you are left with more resistance, rather than cooperation.

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But it can be Bootney, because it is true. You can resist all you want but this is a macro level discussion because what was done and what continues to be done does not just apply to one person. And this is the stumbling block that keeps getting in the way. Blacks are arguing with WE and whites argue with I.