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Which country has a model capitalistic healthcare system?

Toronado3800

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Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.
 

dblack

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Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.

None of the above. Most other nations are indulging the slide into corporatism and I do not think we should follow them.
 

Oddball

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Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.
The previous 50 years have had Medicare/Medicaid screwing with the marketplace....Speaking of freeloaders.

I also notice that since the passage of Obolshevikcare, the focus from the left has shifted from the pooooor "50 million uninsured" to calling everyone who doesn't have insurance as "freeloaders"...Never mind the fact that the uninsured pay for medical care out-of-pocket at urgent care clinics every day of the week.
 
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Toronado3800

Toronado3800

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Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.
The previous 50 years have had Medicare/Medicaid screwing with the marketplace....Speaking of freeloaders.

I also notice that since the passage of Obolshevikcare, the focus from the left has shifted from the pooooor "50 million uninsured" to calling everyone who doesn't have insurance as "freeloaders"...Never mind the fact that the uninsured pay for medical care out-of-pocket at urgent care clinics every day of the week.

I dunno. In my extended family there were aunts who paid $ 20 a month on medical bills since the 80s.

I also know a young lady who had her gallbladder removed totally on your dime. She has crud credit now but no looming debtors prison.

Honestly I understand the economy of scale aspect of making everyone carry health insurance. Then there is the emergency aspect similar to social security where if you end up sick or crippled tomorrow you will not be an absolute beggar or much of a drag on your family.

Still though, Ireland, the Caymen Islands, anyplace have a good model of a capitalistic system?
 

Luddly Neddite

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Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.
The previous 50 years have had Medicare/Medicaid screwing with the marketplace....Speaking of freeloaders.

I also notice that since the passage of Obolshevikcare, the focus from the left has shifted from the pooooor "50 million uninsured" to calling everyone who doesn't have insurance as "freeloaders"...Never mind the fact that the uninsured pay for medical care out-of-pocket at urgent care clinics every day of the week.

By
weird backend redistribution socialist network
do you mean the REPUBLICAN/MITTENS endorsed "go to the ER and wait" SOCIALISTIC system of health care? Why should I have to pay for your health care? Why should I have to pay for illegals' healthcare?

I've always said it was health care for lazy rw freeloaders. Pay for your own healthcare. And, don't bother telling me all about how YOU pay for your own because somebody out there is NOT paying for their own and ObamaCare would be a good start to ending that. (Yes, that's right - some of you freeloaders will slip through.)

Gotta love the hypocrisy of you rw's. In the "atlas shrugged" thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/media...face-of-american-politics-62.html#post6240483

rw's are saying how Ayn Rand was right to take advantage of Medicare and Soc Sec because SHE PAID INTO IT AND WAS ENTITLED TO IT.

You might want to check out the difference between SS, Medicare and Medicaid. Or not. I know how you prize your ignorance so that's your decision.
 

Luddly Neddite

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Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.
The previous 50 years have had Medicare/Medicaid screwing with the marketplace....Speaking of freeloaders.

I also notice that since the passage of Obolshevikcare, the focus from the left has shifted from the pooooor "50 million uninsured" to calling everyone who doesn't have insurance as "freeloaders"...Never mind the fact that the uninsured pay for medical care out-of-pocket at urgent care clinics every day of the week.

I dunno. In my extended family there were aunts who paid $ 20 a month on medical bills since the 80s.

I also know a young lady who had her gallbladder removed totally on your dime. She has crud credit now but no looming debtors prison.

Honestly I understand the economy of scale aspect of making everyone carry health insurance. Then there is the emergency aspect similar to social security where if you end up sick or crippled tomorrow you will not be an absolute beggar or much of a drag on your family.

Still though, Ireland, the Caymen Islands, anyplace have a good model of a capitalistic system?

I know a woman who spent the week before xmas in University Medical Center in Tucson, had emergency surgery and was discharged on xmas day.

She says she never received a bill.

Meanwhile, another person I know, a Canadian, pays $60 a month for health insurance, was injured in a car accident and got top notch care.

People around the world wonder at the stupidity of the US because we let insurance companies and big drug companies control our health care.

I doubt any system is perfect but ours is anti-patient and pro-big business. We get crappy care and pay more for it than many other countries.
 

dblack

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I doubt any system is perfect but ours is anti-patient and pro-big business. We get crappy care and pay more for it than many other countries.

Yep. Shame we didn't change that when we had the chance.
 

Luddly Neddite

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I doubt any system is perfect but ours is anti-patient and pro-big business. We get crappy care and pay more for it than many other countries.

Yep. Shame we didn't change that when we had the chance.

ObamaCare has already made substantial changes for the better. Let's hope the Rs don't get in the way of more.
 

dblack

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I doubt any system is perfect but ours is anti-patient and pro-big business. We get crappy care and pay more for it than many other countries.

Yep. Shame we didn't change that when we had the chance.

ObamaCare has already made substantial changes for the better. Let's hope the Rs don't get in the way of more.

I don't see how. Certainly not when it comes to addressing the "anti-patient and pro-big business" problem. It doubles down on that aspect, legally forcing us to support the very corporations who have created the health care mess in the first place. That's one sick, twisted version of 'reform' in my view.
 

Dont Taz Me Bro

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Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.

The best system in my opinion would be for the majority of people to have tax free health savings accounts with catastrophic policies because that's all most of us need. We don't need insurance plans that cover 80% of every doctor's visit for a simple sniffle. When something major does happen we're covered for the potential five, six, or seven figure costs involved and can more than likely handle taking a hit of a few thousand dollars to meet the deductible. This introduces a moniker of capitalism back into the equation, which is sorely missing right now, and over the long run would bring down the cost of health care.
 
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Toronado3800

Toronado3800

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Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.

The best system in my opinion would be for the majority of people to have tax free health savings accounts with catastrophic policies because that's all most of us need. We don't need insurance plans that cover 80% of every doctor's visit for a simple sniffle. When something major does happen we're covered for the potential five, six, or seven figure costs involved and can more than likely handle taking a hit of a few thousand dollars to meet the deductible. This introduces a moniker of capitalism back into the equation, which is sorely missing right now, and over the long run would bring down the cost of health care.

Thank you for a meaningful opinion. And worded politely also. If I could rep from my phone I would.

Does any country use a system like this?
 

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Toronado3800

Toronado3800

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eflatminor

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Which country has a model capitalistic healthcare system?

The United State of America, 1776 to 1965.

Darn it. Wouldn't you know it, from the fall of the Roman Empire until WWII you might have been better not going to the doctor than going.

Got some leeches?

Technological advancement and progress in efficiency happen when competition is open and markets free. Central planners impede that progress. I argue we'd have a more advanced, more efficient and far less costly market for healthcare and healthcare insurance had we allowed free markets to thrive. After the introduction of Medicare and all the other massive meddling in markets at the state and federal level in the 1960s, costs have skyrocketed and results suffered. This is true for healthcare and education, the two markets in which government meddles most.

In other words, your 'leeches' analogy demonstrates profound ignorance as to what makes technology advance in the most efficient manner.
 
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Toronado3800

Toronado3800

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The United State of America, 1776 to 1965.

Darn it. Wouldn't you know it, from the fall of the Roman Empire until WWII you might have been better not going to the doctor than going.

Got some leeches?

Technological advancement and progress in efficiency happen when competition is open and markets free. Central planners impede that progress. I argue we'd have a more advanced, more efficient and far less costly market for healthcare and healthcare insurance had we allowed free markets to thrive. After the introduction of Medicare and all the other massive meddling in markets at the state and federal level in the 1960s, costs have skyrocketed and results suffered. This is true for healthcare and education, the two markets in which government meddles most.

In other words, your 'leeches' analogy demonstrates profound ignorance as to what makes technology advance in the most efficient manner.

So IS there a country you look to for guidance here or as a model example?

Off topic but I think modern medicine under our socialist Eisenhower era system has come a longer way than it did over the previous 1500 years.

If it is improving more rapidly in a country with a true free market just let me know where. I am not out to create medical/economic theory or upset you with examples of how poor doctors were in the Little House on the Prairie era just looking for examples.
 

dblack

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eflatminor

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Darn it. Wouldn't you know it, from the fall of the Roman Empire until WWII you might have been better not going to the doctor than going.

Got some leeches?

Technological advancement and progress in efficiency happen when competition is open and markets free. Central planners impede that progress. I argue we'd have a more advanced, more efficient and far less costly market for healthcare and healthcare insurance had we allowed free markets to thrive. After the introduction of Medicare and all the other massive meddling in markets at the state and federal level in the 1960s, costs have skyrocketed and results suffered. This is true for healthcare and education, the two markets in which government meddles most.

In other words, your 'leeches' analogy demonstrates profound ignorance as to what makes technology advance in the most efficient manner.

So IS there a country you look to for guidance here or as a model example?

Sadly, I know of none.

Off topic but I think modern medicine under our socialist Eisenhower era system has come a longer way than it did over the previous 1500 years.

I agree. The greatness of the American experiment was not lost on the health industry, not by a long shot. It's why the richest foreigners so often come to America's top hospitals for treatment.

However, as that socialist system progressed at both the state and federal levels (new laws/regulations every year, which are never repealed), I argue we suppressed competition and consumer choice. Innovations and advancements became so expensive to get through the FDA and other federal regulations, not to mention liability insurance, that only a few giant companies can play. New, smaller, entrants into a market are VITAL to keep expenses down and efficiency, and customer choice, up.

If it is improving more rapidly in a country with a true free market just let me know where. I am not out to create medical/economic theory or upset you with examples of how poor doctors were in the Little House on the Prairie era just looking for examples.

Doctors were poor, and often ignorant, everywhere in those days, especially in rural settings. You would agree I'm sure that great progress in medicine was made at American companies, universities, and in back room laboratories during the 18th, 19th and early 20th century, especially for such a new country. As we got richer, we lead the world in this vital market.

The problem with increased central meddling in medicine and insurance is, beyond the obvious cronyism such meddling breeds, it results in increasing costs overtime in excess of the overall rate of inflation. Governments almost never increase consumer choice and ease of entrance into markets; they restrict both. Like Soviet farmers, government bureaucracies have no motive to innovate because they are not struggling to thrive in a competitive market...and nor are their crony corporate buddies.

In a free market, you get choice. It's everything.
 

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France, it's ranked #1 in the world.
 

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Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.

NONE.

That's why its called a MODEL.

In fact, there is no MODEL capitalist ANYTHING in reality. The very precise reason right wingies demand a MODEL capitalist economy is because it CANNOT EXIST IN NATURE. That way, they can ALWAYS demand less taxes and ALWAYS less regulation, no matter how low each of those are.
 

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