Where do they draw the line, is there a line?

[immto]

Is there a line?

Of course there is.

But Beck is just an agit-prop comedian. We (most sane people) don't take him seriously - not because we don't know what he's saying, but because he offers no real evidence of any of the horrible things he seems to think are right around the corner.

You conspiracy nutjobs think that Glenn Beck's flowcharts "prove" that the US is on the path to a Socialist dictatorship, while simultaneously arguing that Obama is nothing but "Bush 3". Make up your minds.

Glenn Beck to a large degree more than the others I mentioned provides all kinds of proof if you choose to actually pay attention. He doesn't just say something and expect us to believe it because it came from his mouth. Do you actually watch or listen to either of his programs or do you simply rely on what you hear about him?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Anyone vehemently against this adminstration is labeled as all of the above. So if that is the case, then they'll never have to listen.

Provably false.

I'm sorry, I can accept legitimate criticism of this Administration. Hell, I criticize them myself constantly.

But I can't help but laugh every time I hear someone try to legitimize what Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard.

Vehemently would be the operative word. Everybody gets to set their own bar for what they deem as legitimate criticism.

I guess that everyone does get to set their own bar. So here's mine:

Legitimate criticism:

• Spending
• Foriegn Policy
• Taxes
• Healthcare
• Cap and Trade

Illegitimate criticism:

• The birth certificate
• Obama is controlled by a massive worldwide conspiracy led by George Soros and ACORN to turn America into a socialist dictatorship
• Most things that Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard
• Anything that Pastor Manning, Orly Taitz, or Alan Keyes says

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Is there a line?

Of course there is.

But Beck is just an agit-prop comedian. We (most sane people) don't take him seriously - not because we don't know what he's saying, but because he offers no real evidence of any of the horrible things he seems to think are right around the corner.

You conspiracy nutjobs think that Glenn Beck's flowcharts "prove" that the US is on the path to a Socialist dictatorship, while simultaneously arguing that Obama is nothing but "Bush 3". Make up your minds.

Glenn Beck to a large degree more than the others I mentioned provides all kinds of proof if you choose to actually pay attention. He doesn't just say something and expect us to believe it because it came from his mouth. Do you actually watch or listen to either of his programs or do you simply rely on what you hear about him?

Drawing lines on a chalkboard isn't proof.

Glenn Beck offers no "proof" - only insane supposition.

 

[WillowTree]

Provably false.

I'm sorry, I can accept legitimate criticism of this Administration. Hell, I criticize them myself constantly.

But I can't help but laugh every time I hear someone try to legitimize what Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard.

Vehemently would be the operative word. Everybody gets to set their own bar for what they deem as legitimate criticism.

I guess that everyone does get to set their own bar. So here's mine:

Legitimate criticism:

• Spending
• Foriegn Policy
• Taxes
• Healthcare
• Cap and Trade

Illegitimate criticism:

• The birth certificate
• Obama is controlled by a massive worldwide conspiracy led by George Soros and ACORN to turn America into a socialist dictatorship
• Anything that Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard
• Anything that Pastor Manning, Orly Taitz, or Alan Keyes says

I see some ostrich azz.

 

[Sherry]

Provably false.

I'm sorry, I can accept legitimate criticism of this Administration. Hell, I criticize them myself constantly.

But I can't help but laugh every time I hear someone try to legitimize what Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard.

Vehemently would be the operative word. Everybody gets to set their own bar for what they deem as legitimate criticism.

I guess that everyone does get to set their own bar. So here's mine:

Legitimate criticism:

• Spending
• Foriegn Policy
• Taxes
• Healthcare
• Cap and Trade

Illegitimate criticism:

• The birth certificate
• Obama is controlled by a massive worldwide conspiracy led by George Soros and ACORN to turn America into a socialist dictatorship
• Anything that Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard
• Anything that Pastor Manning, Orly Taitz, or Alan Keyes says

All of your legitimate criticisms are tied into your second illegitimate criticism. Beck doesn't support birthers. Don't say "anything"; it's too absolute.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Vehemently would be the operative word. Everybody gets to set their own bar for what they deem as legitimate criticism.

I guess that everyone does get to set their own bar. So here's mine:

Legitimate criticism:

• Spending
• Foriegn Policy
• Taxes
• Healthcare
• Cap and Trade

Illegitimate criticism:

• The birth certificate
• Obama is controlled by a massive worldwide conspiracy led by George Soros and ACORN to turn America into a socialist dictatorship
• Anything that Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard
• Anything that Pastor Manning, Orly Taitz, or Alan Keyes says

All of your legitimate criticisms are tied into your second illegitimate criticism. Beck doesn't support birthers. Don't say "anything"; it's too absolute.

That's my point. They're NOT "tied" to anything. Beck drawing lines between them on the blackboard doesn't "connect" them with anything other than speculation that Glenn pulls out of his ass.

And you're right about the "anything" thing. I'll edit it to "most".

 

[Sherry]

I guess that everyone does get to set their own bar. So here's mine:

Legitimate criticism:

• Spending
• Foriegn Policy
• Taxes
• Healthcare
• Cap and Trade

Illegitimate criticism:

• The birth certificate
• Obama is controlled by a massive worldwide conspiracy led by George Soros and ACORN to turn America into a socialist dictatorship
• Anything that Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard
• Anything that Pastor Manning, Orly Taitz, or Alan Keyes says

All of your legitimate criticisms are tied into your second illegitimate criticism. Beck doesn't support birthers. Don't say "anything"; it's too absolute.

That's my point. They're NOT "tied" to anything. Beck drawing lines between them on the blackboard doesn't "connect" them with anything other than speculation that Glenn pulls out of his ass.

And you're right about the "anything" thing. I'll edit it to "most".

I'll give Glenn credit for trying to take a really massive theory and break it down in a way that people can understand and stay interested. No doubt that he is a showman. I don't take what he says as gospel, nor do I just dismiss it. It was weird last night to watch him play audio from 2-3 years ago that at the time I even thought was nonsense, and now it's come to pass. Sometimes there is no satisfaction in being proven right.

 

[American Horse]

No, they won't listen until the message is delivered by a sane, rational person and not a blowhard, buffoon, or bullshit artist.

Anyone vehemently against this adminstration is labeled as all of the above. So if that is the case, then they'll never have to listen.

Provably false.

I'm sorry, I can accept legitimate criticism of this Administration. Hell, I criticize them myself constantly.

But I can't help but laugh every time I hear someone try to legitimize what Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard.

QUESTION: Have you ever watched an hour of Glen Beck?
If not, how do you form opinions about what he says?
If so, then you know he offers up facts and asks for rebuttal about what those facts mean, or proof that anything he writes there is not accurate.
He puts it on the blackboard to give it emphasis and for the audience to better see relationships, better absorb, and to refer back to because he covers a lot of factual data.
He is a good teacher.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Provably false.

I'm sorry, I can accept legitimate criticism of this Administration. Hell, I criticize them myself constantly.

But I can't help but laugh every time I hear someone try to legitimize what Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard.

Vehemently would be the operative word. Everybody gets to set their own bar for what they deem as legitimate criticism.

I guess that everyone does get to set their own bar. So here's mine:

Legitimate criticism:

• Spending
• Foriegn Policy
• Taxes
• Healthcare
• Cap and Trade

Illegitimate criticism:

• The birth certificate
• Obama is controlled by a massive worldwide conspiracy led by George Soros and ACORN to turn America into a socialist dictatorship
• Anything that Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard
• Anything that Pastor Manning, Orly Taitz, or Alan Keyes says

Who is the financial force behind cap and trade?
Who is the financial force behind health care who wrote it?
Who wrote the stimulus bill who finances them?
What is the Cloward-Piven strategy .

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Anyone vehemently against this adminstration is labeled as all of the above. So if that is the case, then they'll never have to listen.

Provably false.

I'm sorry, I can accept legitimate criticism of this Administration. Hell, I criticize them myself constantly.

But I can't help but laugh every time I hear someone try to legitimize what Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard.

QUESTION: Have you ever watched an hour of Glen Beck?
If not, how do you form opinions about what he says?
If so, then you know he offers up facts and asks for rebuttal about what those facts mean, or proof that anything he writes there is not accurate.
He puts it on th blackboard to give it emphasis and for the audience to show relationships, beter absorb, and to refer back to because he covers a lot of factual data.
He is a good teacher.

Yes, I have had the "pleasure" of watching a full hour of Glenn Beck. Many times. Frequently I have to, for work.

Let me explain something.

I don't think that Glenn Beck lies. Any fact that he says is usually mostly true - possibly taken out of context, but I don't know of any time when Glenn Beck just made some fact up.

But I guarantee you that I could "link" anything together, six degrees of kevin bacon style, like Glenn does. That's the thing about conspiracy theories - you don't have to prove anything to make one. You just have to prove that it's possible, and people will believe you.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Perfect example of the chalk board
perhaps the DR can point out the flaws.

Glenn Beck - Cloward And Piven - Destroy The Economy And Reboot

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

But I guarantee you that I could "link" anything together, six degrees of kevin bacon style, like Glenn does. That's the thing about conspiracy theories - you don't have to prove anything to make one. You just have to prove that it's possible, and people will believe you.

There is a point which beyond unbelief is impossible, and the mind in refusing truth must take refuge in a misbelief which is sheer incredulity.
Sir Robert Anderson

 

[Sherry]

Provably false.

I'm sorry, I can accept legitimate criticism of this Administration. Hell, I criticize them myself constantly.

But I can't help but laugh every time I hear someone try to legitimize what Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard.

QUESTION: Have you ever watched an hour of Glen Beck?
If not, how do you form opinions about what he says?
If so, then you know he offers up facts and asks for rebuttal about what those facts mean, or proof that anything he writes there is not accurate.
He puts it on th blackboard to give it emphasis and for the audience to show relationships, beter absorb, and to refer back to because he covers a lot of factual data.
He is a good teacher.

Yes, I have had the "pleasure" of watching a full hour of Glenn Beck. Many times. Frequently I have to, for work.

Let me explain something.

I don't think that Glenn Beck lies. Any fact that he says is usually mostly true - possibly taken out of context, but I don't know of any time when Glenn Beck just made some fact up.

But I guarantee you that I could "link" anything together, six degrees of kevin bacon style, like Glenn does. That's the thing about conspiracy theories - you don't have to prove anything to make one. You just have to prove that it's possible, and people will believe you.

That's a fair observation, but Glenn does challenge his audience not to be blind followers of his words. He encourages people to do their own research. He reads like a maniac, and thanks to him, my book list is much more expansive. When I watch him (I've never listened to his radio show), sometimes I think, "Yes!!", and other times, "I'll look into that, but you've got a ways to go before I can be swayed to that possibility."

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Vehemently would be the operative word. Everybody gets to set their own bar for what they deem as legitimate criticism.

I guess that everyone does get to set their own bar. So here's mine:

Legitimate criticism:

• Spending
• Foriegn Policy
• Taxes
• Healthcare
• Cap and Trade

Illegitimate criticism:

• The birth certificate
• Obama is controlled by a massive worldwide conspiracy led by George Soros and ACORN to turn America into a socialist dictatorship
• Anything that Glenn Beck puts on his chalkboard
• Anything that Pastor Manning, Orly Taitz, or Alan Keyes says

Now this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Who is the financial force behind cap and trade?

According to Glenn Beck, Maurice Strong. But there's no evidence of that.

Who is the financial force behind health care who wrote it?

Now, I must have missed this episode. Why don't you tell me, and give some real evidence?

Who wrote the stimulus bill who finances them?

A bunch of Senators and Congressmen. I know that Glenn Beck claims it was "written" by the Apollo Alliance. Show some evidence of such.

What is the Cloward-Piven strategy .

An article from the Nation. From 1966. Nothing more.

 

[rightwinger]

I draw the line at legitimate commentators

Glenn Beck is not above the line

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Perfect example of the chalk board
perhaps the DR can point out the flaws.

Glenn Beck - Cloward And Piven - Destroy The Economy And Reboot

I'm at work, I can't watch videos.

Anyway, I'm not going to bother. The so-called "Cloward Piven strategy" comes from an article in the Nation from the sixties. I know that it exists, I've even read the article.

Just because it's possible doesn't mean its true. The strongest argument against almost everything Beck says is a simple application of Occam's razor and Hanlan's razor.

Occam's Razor:
The meta-theoretical principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" (entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem) and the conclusion thereof, that the simplest solution is usually the correct one.

Hanlon's Razor:
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

[theDoctorisIn]

But I guarantee you that I could "link" anything together, six degrees of kevin bacon style, like Glenn does. That's the thing about conspiracy theories - you don't have to prove anything to make one. You just have to prove that it's possible, and people will believe you.

There is a point which beyond unbelief is impossible, and the mind in refusing truth must take refuge in a misbelief which is sheer incredulity.
Sir Robert Anderson

Wanting to believe is not justification for belief.
-Author unknown.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Now this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Re cap and trade

According to Glenn Beck, Maurice Strong. But there's no evidence of that.

GLENN BECK, HOST: America, this is so important. This should be on the front page of every paper, but it won't be. And when I'm done with it, you ask yourself why.

And you watch — you watch — all the blogs and everything else will just make cheap shots at me. Go ahead. Go ahead. Look how fat he is, look how stupid, look at his hair, look at the blackboards. Whatever. How about we talk about the content on the blackboards, OK?

We left the Chicago Climate Exchange story — I'm trying to show how the entire government is turning in to "Crime Inc."

'Glenn Beck': Real Story Behind Cap-and-Trade - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com
Beck has flesh out this crime inc story pretty well I have to go to work
Someone may fill in more details

Crime Inc. - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com
Why Does Crime Inc. Matter to You? - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDmAha3Ytg]YouTube - The One Thing: 4/29[/ame]

Who is Maurice Strong?
I dont know .
Lets ask the real crazies
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih1UPeEK9Ig]YouTube - Maurice Strong at root of Global Warming Scam[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu_XGuP_LY8]YouTube - Maurice Strong's unprecedented rise to power[/ame]

CHICAGO CLIMATE EXCHANGE (CCX)

Describes itself as "North America's only cap-and-trade system for all six greenhouse gases"
Received startup grants totaling $1.1 million from the Joyce Foundation in 2001-02, when Barack Obama sat on the foundation's board
Closely tied to Al Gore's company, Generation Investment Management
A key Chicago Climate Exchange board member is Maurice Strong, who has a history of insider-trading transgressions.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Perfect example of the chalk board
perhaps the DR can point out the flaws.

Glenn Beck - Cloward And Piven - Destroy The Economy And Reboot

I'm at work, I can't watch videos.

Anyway, I'm not going to bother. The so-called "Cloward Piven strategy" comes from an article in the Nation from the sixties. I know that it exists, I've even read the article.

Just because it's possible doesn't mean its true. The strongest argument against almost everything Beck says is a simple application of Occam's razor and Hanlan's razor.

Occam's Razor:
The meta-theoretical principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" (entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem) and the conclusion thereof, that the simplest solution is usually the correct one.

Hanlon's Razor:
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

Platitudes are a poor substitute for thinking.
Mr.Fitnah

 

[Liability]

THEY (whoever the fuck they are) draw the line --

between two "points."