When Religous orders become political should they lose tax exempt status?

[Wry Catcher]

Did Catholic Bishops cross the line when they used their influence in the debate on healthcare.

I believe they did.

 

[uscitizen]

Absolutely if they preach politics form the pulpit they should lose their tax exempt status.
They might as well be punished here before they burn in hell for all eternity.

Jesus was not a political man.

 

[Ragnar]

Like most of the Constitution, the first amendment protects religion from the State, not the other way around.

That goes for Catholics as well as The Order of the Satanic Monkey Breath cult and even run of the mill athiest like me.

 

[uscitizen]

I don't think churches should be tax exmept anyway.

 

[Ragnar]

I don't think churches should be tax exmept anyway.

Goes hand in hand with the whole "wall of separation" thing.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Why the bishops and not the nuns?


members of the church are citizens of the state. They have the right to be heard. They also have the right to give their titles as authority for their words, as lots of folks argue to authority rather than to content.

They are just exercising their free speech rights.

Denying them their exemptions under law because they say something you dislike is anti democratic.

One can question whether any church should have this exemption, but not whether a particular church should loose its exemption based on its exercise of free speech. Being irreligious myself, I doubt the utility of the religious exemption. But if it exists, it exists for all, not just the ones that toe your line.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Did Catholic Bishops cross the line when they used their influence in the debate on healthcare.

I believe they did.

Is it against the law? Technically, yes, but for some reason, many various 501-c3 organizations find unique ways to skirt this.

Should it be? NO, but so goes the way of a wicked nation. (sigh)

 

[Wry Catcher]

Like most of the Constitution, the first amendment protects religion from the State, not the other way around.

That goes for Catholics as well as The Order of the Satanic Monkey Breath cult and even run of the mill athiest like me.[/QUOTE

But, you and the Satanic Monkey Breath Cult pay taxes.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Did Catholic Bishops cross the line when they used their influence in the debate on healthcare.

I believe they did.

So you think all those Black Churches that supported Obama and used their pulpits to preach his election should lose their tax exempt status? Or is that different?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Absolutely if they preach politics form the pulpit they should lose their tax exempt status.
They might as well be punished here before they burn in hell for all eternity.

Jesus was not a political man.

So all those black churches?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Why the bishops and not the nuns?


members of the church are citizens of the state. They have the right to be heard. They also have the right to give their titles as authority for their words, as lots of folks argue to authority rather than to content.

They are just exercising their free speech rights.

Denying them their exemptions under law because they say something you dislike is anti democratic.

One can question whether any church should have this exemption, but not whether a particular church should loose its exemption based on its exercise of free speech. Being irreligious myself, I doubt the utility of the religious exemption. But if it exists, it exists for all, not just the ones that toe your line.

Actually you've proved the point. The Catholic Nuns supported the Healthcare effort, neither they or the Bishops as representatives of the Catholic church should engage in the political debate. As individuals, fine, but as representatives of a religious order which is exempt from taxes they must not, or, pay their share of local, state and federal taxes and then they may preach on political issues all they please (my opinion, of course).

 

[Wry Catcher]

Absolutely if they preach politics form the pulpit they should lose their tax exempt status.
They might as well be punished here before they burn in hell for all eternity.

Jesus was not a political man.

So all those black churches?

Black churches? Many black Americans attend the Catholic church which I attended as a youth. Of course the church was off white stucco, I don't think I've ever seen a totally black church.
I'm assuming of course you didn't mean a church attended by only black people, that of course in context would make you appear to be a racist.
Silly me, of course you're not. Right?

btw, notwithstanding your "black churches" comment, yes, I believe when a religious order of any type engages in political discourse and uses the authority of the church to tell people how to vote they should lose their tax exempt status.
Actually, I don't believe they should be exempt even if they do follow the law and not preach politics.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Absolutely if they preach politics form the pulpit they should lose their tax exempt status.
They might as well be punished here before they burn in hell for all eternity.

No, they would be punished by G-d for not standing up to evil.

Jesus was not a political man.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InaRIYFPMiY"]YouTube - Top Gun "Bullshit"[/ame]

Jesus was VERY political.

 

[California Girl]

Like most of the Constitution, the first amendment protects religion from the State, not the other way around.

That goes for Catholics as well as The Order of the Satanic Monkey Breath cult and even run of the mill athiest like me.[/QUOTE

But, you and the Satanic Monkey Breath Cult pay taxes.

Gee, it's not like you to miss the point.



Oh, wait.... sorry. I was wrong.

Point: If the Order of the Satanic Monkey Breath cult was a recognized religion, it would be tax exempt. Idiot.

 

[GWV5903]

Absolutely if they preach politics form the pulpit they should lose their tax exempt status.
They might as well be punished here before they burn in hell for all eternity.

Jesus was not a political man.

So all those black churches?

Black churches? Many black Americans attend the Catholic church which I attended as a youth. Of course the church was off white stucco, I don't think I've ever seen a totally black church.
I'm assuming of course you didn't mean a church attended by only black people, that of course in context would make you appear to be a racist.
Silly me, of course you're not. Right?

btw, notwithstanding your "black churches" comment, yes, I believe when a religious order of any type engages in political discourse and uses the authority of the church to tell people how to vote they should lose their tax exempt status.
Actually, I don't believe they should be exempt even if they do follow the law and not preach politics.

And your reason for this? You do understand the charity of the church is second to none?

 

[Care4all]

where does it say in the constitution that you have to pay taxes in order for the Bill of Rights to cover you?

 

[Ragnar]

But, you and the Satanic Monkey Breath Cult pay taxes.

Catholics pay taxes too, but not for being catholic. Neither do the Satanic Monkeyites or I pay taxes for expressing our beliefs in a Constitutionaly protected manner.


Religious freedom is a right. Just like freedom of speech and of the press. The government has no protection from the people for peacably expressing those rights. That goes for gun ownersip as well.

The government has no obligation to provide you with a religion, a press, a speech forum or a gun... but it can not violate your rights to peacefully use them.




Unless you think health care is a "right" and Obamacare passes. Then a new legal precedent will have been set in which the government is indeed responsible, not for protecting your rights, but providing them. I look forward to USMB circa 20someting when the Republicans take charge and use Democrat tactics to force taxpayers to buy every adult citizen a rifle and handgun and the classes to use them safetly. It will be just as wrong then as healthcare is now... but fun to watch the usual suspects flip sides on the meaning of "rights".

 

[Care4all]

here's all the tax exempts....

there is a kazillion of them....http://www.muridae.com/nporegulation/documents/exempt_orgs.html

it would have broken the constitution if congress made a law to make only churches tax exempt folks...

congress made a group of organizations tax exempt, religious institutions is only one of many, getting tax exempt.

they have to follow the rules of all other tax exempt organizations in their category.

(i am trying to find the rules now)

 

[Care4all]

IRS regulations allow clergy to preach about moral or political issues, as long as they don’t favor one candidate over another.

Internal Revenue Service regulations forbid all tax-exempt, 501(c)(3) organizations — including churches — from promoting or endorsing candidates.

 

[California Girl]

Absolutely if they preach politics form the pulpit they should lose their tax exempt status.
They might as well be punished here before they burn in hell for all eternity.

Jesus was not a political man.

So all those black churches?

Black churches? Many black Americans attend the Catholic church which I attended as a youth. Of course the church was off white stucco, I don't think I've ever seen a totally black church.
I'm assuming of course you didn't mean a church attended by only black people, that of course in context would make you appear to be a racist.
Silly me, of course you're not. Right?

btw, notwithstanding your "black churches" comment, yes, I believe when a religious order of any type engages in political discourse and uses the authority of the church to tell people how to vote they should lose their tax exempt status.
Actually, I don't believe they should be exempt even if they do follow the law and not preach politics.

So, because you have never 'seen' a totally black church, that means anyone who knows they exist is a racist? Is that really your opinion. What an ass. How about the Trinity Church in Chicago? You know the one.... the Pastor was one Rev Wright (that dude who ranted about big, bad America).... the one Obama attended for 20 years but Oprah Winfrey left because of the racist rhetoric. There's thousands of them.... but since you haven't seen them, clearly, they don't exist.

Honestly, Wry, you are a total ass sometimes.

Religions are tax exempt, but their priests, preachers or whatever, have as much right as you do to speak their mind. And Churches are perfectly within their rights to take a stand on issues - not candidates.

Oh and..... if you take away their tax exemption, the money you're taking away is not from the Church - it is from the people that the Church helps..... so where are those people gonna get help from? Don't tell me, the government? You're such a jerk.