When petrolium runs out!

I guess I just don't see the same future you do. We are far more aware of our effect on the environment then we were 50 yrs ago. Over that time our fuel efficiency has improved drastically, we have learned that many items we use can be recycled. As a country, we have made very significant strides in terms of our stewardship to the environment. It isn't the U.S. that you should be pointing the finger at when it comes dangers to our environmental future. You should be pointing your finger at countries like China and other developing countries who's factories our spewing pollution into air primarily because they don't have the technology we have.

I beleive as a country we have crossed a line as well. As a country I believe we are past are worst environmental abuses and things will only get better.

Who said anything about ONLY the US being responsible? I was talking about Human Beings in general. I said nothing about a certain country in the quote you provided. However you are correct in saying that we have made some important strides, but overall, as a collective Human Race, we didn't make the mark.
 
Who said anything about ONLY the US being responsible? I was talking about Human Beings in general. I said nothing about a certain country in the quote you provided. However you are correct in saying that we have made some important strides, but overall, as a collective Human Race, we didn't make the mark.
So what is your solution to The Problem? :eusa_whistle:
 
The united states is by far the largest consumer of oil, but if anthropogenic global warming is proven to exist. the united states alone would not be able to completly stop or even slow it down without the cooperation of the entire world. We only account for less than 24% of the earths oil consumption a year, which is alot but not enough to cut emissions in half on a world wide scale. We need japan, china, russia, australia, africa, Asia, and the middle east all to cut emissions in half to reach that goal.
 
The united states is by far the largest consumer of oil, but if anthropogenic global warming is proven to exist. the united states alone would not be able to completly stop or even slow it down without the cooperation of the entire world. We only account for less than 24% of the earths oil consumption a year, which is alot but not enough to cut emissions in half on a world wide scale. We need japan, china, russia, australia, africa, Asia, and the middle east all to cut emissions in half to reach that goal.
So what alternative energy source do you propose to fuel all these major industrial economies?
 
There are no alternative re-usable fuels to power the world without causing inflation. Nuclear power is something we are working on though it is highly unstable, and very expensive. Ethanol would be the first step to lowering dependence on oil, and the only logical one as well. It is combined with gasoline to create less C02 output.

My own personal opinion, though it would take some time and money to create this, i would say a fuel cell engine. We have tiny fuel cells powerd by a continous flow of hydrogen and oxygen, two of the most obundant elements on the planet. We definitely have the technology to create large hydrogen powerd fuel cell engines but just like when the computer first came out, we dont have a cheap and efficient way of manufacturing something like this.

It takes research and time to become less dependent on fossil fuels but i really think ethanol is the most logical way as of right now. Its re-usable because we can use sugar crops to grow extracts of it. Brazil uses 12% of the worlds ethanol, all on cars, and it comes from only 4% of brazil's land to grow it.
 
Okay. I'm convinced. I'm going to hitch a ride on a Vorlon demolition rig. I might even splurge and buy a new towel for the occasion.
 
There are no alternative re-usable fuels to power the world without causing inflation. Nuclear power is something we are working on though it is highly unstable, and very expensive. Ethanol would be the first step to lowering dependence on oil, and the only logical one as well. It is combined with gasoline to create less C02 output.

My own personal opinion, though it would take some time and money to create this, i would say a fuel cell engine. We have tiny fuel cells powerd by a continous flow of hydrogen and oxygen, two of the most obundant elements on the planet. We definitely have the technology to create large hydrogen powerd fuel cell engines but just like when the computer first came out, we dont have a cheap and efficient way of manufacturing something like this.

It takes research and time to become less dependent on fossil fuels but i really think ethanol is the most logical way as of right now. Its re-usable because we can use sugar crops to grow extracts of it. Brazil uses 12% of the worlds ethanol, all on cars, and it comes from only 4% of brazil's land to grow it.

1. Are you aware that it takes the equivalent of 3 gallons of ethanol to make 4 gallons? (I'm not sure of the exact percentage, but it's in this range.) Huge amounts of energy are needed to fertilize the crops, harvest, transport, manufacture, and distill. I am able to use E85 in my vehicle and I am unaware of any reduction in CO2.
2. Fuel cells are not a source of energy, but merely a method of utilization. The hydrogen must be made from natural gas or electricity; both methods consuming more energy than producing due to the realities of thermodynamics.
3. Nuclear power is neither unstable nor expensive. After hydro it is the least expensive method of making huge amounts of power. It generates zero CO2 emissions. There are 103 domestic operating reactors in the US and no one has died from their use. There are also many in Naval operations (subs and carriers) with excellent safety records. Contrast that with our use of petroleum products and coal, not even factoring the costs of an unstable Middle East. Nuclear technology has operated since the 1960’s, the technology has continued to improve, and the next generation will be even more efficient. Reprocessing spent nuclear fuel results in a 95% or greater reduction in waste. The Yucca Mountain waste facility is the most stable geology and the best containment technology on the planet.
4. It has been estimated that 500 new nuclear plants could reduce the US dependence on foreign oil to zero, and 700 or so could eliminate the need for oil altogether.
5. Environmentalists have fought building more plants since the 1970s and have effectively shut down new construction. All responsible environmentalists and conservationists should be rabid supporters of nuclear power. The fact that they are not speaks volumes about their true motives.
 
There are no alternative re-usable fuels to power the world without causing inflation. Nuclear power is something we are working on though it is highly unstable, and very expensive. Ethanol would be the first step to lowering dependence on oil, and the only logical one as well. It is combined with gasoline to create less C02 output.

Actually Ethanol currenlty has some major, albeit unexpected environmental issues as well. I am from the ethanol capital of the world, Minnesota. A recent study that I read in the Minnesota Explorer directly linked an increase in corn growth to the destruction of coral reafs in the gulf of mexico, creating what popularilly know has the dead zone. What is happening is the increas in corn growth for ethanol here has naturally led to increase in the use of pesticides and fertalizers, which runs into the mississipi, which runs into the gulf, the combination of chemicals creates algea blooms in the gulf which suck up all of the oxygen, which kills fish and plant life.
 
Actually Ethanol currenlty has some major, albeit unexpected environmental issues as well. I am from the ethanol capital of the world, Minnesota. A recent study that I read in the Minnesota Explorer directly linked an increase in corn growth to the destruction of coral reafs in the gulf of mexico, creating what popularilly know has the dead zone. What is happening is the increas in corn growth for ethanol here has naturally led to increase in the use of pesticides and fertalizers, which runs into the mississipi, which runs into the gulf, the combination of chemicals creates algea blooms in the gulf which suck up all of the oxygen, which kills fish and plant life.
Interesting, that Law od Unitended Consequences. I wonder what tens of thosands of windmills will do to global wind patterns, or hundreds of ocean turbines in the Gulf Stream do to the climate in Europe? Not to mention bird and fish populations.

The way I see it, we have 4 long term options:
1. Develop nuclear power.
2. Pollute like hell, using up all the oil and coal while waiting for the holy grail (fission power).
3. Some combination of 1 and 2.
4. Kill off 90% of human life.

Since radical environmentalists do not support options 1, 2 or 3, the logical conclusion is that they support option 4.
 
Interesting, that Law od Unitended Consequences. I wonder what tens of thosands of windmills will do to global wind patterns, or hundreds of ocean turbines in the Gulf Stream do to the climate in Europe? Not to mention bird and fish populations.

The way I see it, we have 4 long term options:
1. Develop nuclear power.
2. Pollute like hell, using up all the oil and coal while waiting for the holy grail (fission power).
3. Some combination of 1 and 2.
4. Kill off 90% of human life.

Since radical environmentalists do not support options 1, 2 or 3, the logical conclusion is that they support option 4.

mmmmmmm.....fiiiiiissionnnnnnnn
 
Nuclear fusion would be more logical than fission, if we were to go that rout. It produces less waste, and is powerd by raw materials. I still believe that ethanol will be the power of our cars though, we dont have the technology to power small cars with nuclear fusion without blowing everyone up during a car accident. Ethanol is re-usable and you can grow it using all natural bug reppelant that wont cause any damage to the water systems. The idea is to have more ethanol than gas, not a full tank of ethanol. We are TRYING to use less gas because scientists believe all the oil reserves will be gone within 90 years.
 
Nuclear fusion would be more logical than fission, if we were to go that rout. It produces less waste, and is powerd by raw materials. I still believe that ethanol will be the power of our cars though, we dont have the technology to power small cars with nuclear fusion without blowing everyone up during a car accident. Ethanol is re-usable and you can grow it using all natural bug reppelant that wont cause any damage to the water systems. The idea is to have more ethanol than gas, not a full tank of ethanol. We are TRYING to use less gas because scientists believe all the oil reserves will be gone within 90 years.
1.Ethanol: Post 28, item 1. Its also extremely toxic, and disolves in groundwater, not like gasoline that floats on it.
2. Power cars with nuclear fusion: use night time excess electricity to make hydrogen.
3. Fission: 30 years ago they said it was 20 years into the future. Now thay are saying it is 30 years. At that rate, in 90 years it will be 180 years into the future. Let's face reality: the future is nuclear. Or kill off 90% of the human race. Choose one.
 
Not everyone agrees that oil consists of dead dinosaurs. The Russians have a theory of abiotic oil.

The reason no one is freaking out is because we've heard this before. Geologists were predicting the end of oil nearly 100 years ago. However in all fairness, there haven't been any "elephant" oil field discoveries in 20 years (according to energy investor Doug Casey), and the increased demand from India and China will continue pushing prices upwards.

This is what's partially behind higher gas prices and record oil industry profits. Fortunately, this attracts profit-seeking capitalists who want a piece of the action. Venture capital funding of better energy storage right now is sort of like the dot-com boom in the 90's, in fact some of the same people are behind it. There will probably be lots of companies that don't make it, just like in the 90's...but hopefully a few will. All it takes is one good energy storage method to change everything.

But what would we do if gasoline did run out?

* We've already started exploiting oil sands as gas prices have gone up.

* Coal gasification has improved a lot since the 1940's, and is probably our most cost-effective option. Actually coal to diesel would be more like it.

* Batteries have quietly improved since California dropped it's EV mandate due to completely inadequate batteries. Promising companies: A123 and Firefly, and maaaybe (cross your fingers) the mother of all batteries from EEStor. A car could charge up in 10 minutes, run for 300 miles, and the EEStor unit would last for gazillions of charge/discharge cycles, while costing not much more than a lead-acid setup. Or so they claim.

* Solar and wind are slowly getting cheaper. Giant offshore windmills are actually profitable, and new solar thermal plants are more efficient than photovoltaics. Also Nanosolar will be selling plastic solar cells that are printed like newspapers very soon. Their new plant opening this year will singlehandedly triple america's solar output. Solar shingles anyone?

* We can use cars far less than we do now. Mainly this involves government(s) repealing bad laws that mandate sprawl. Compact development makes walking, biking, trains, and electric cars much more attractive.

* We need to build more nuke plants, although most of our power plants are now natural gas and coal.

* We can run our cars on natural gas, it's the 2nd cheapest per mile fuel and clean. This is far smarter than hydrogen, and we could start doing it today. But there's only something like 4 ports in the US that can take LNG due to NIMBYism.
 

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