When man tells God, you can't....

[ding]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

Man decided to believe Satan when he implied that GOD was withholding knowledge that would make them just like GOD. Man can never be GOD. This is the lie Satan tries to spread (GOD is withholding what is rightfully ours). The reality is that only GOD is GOD and there are no others. GOD holds everything together. We can not. GOD has plans for those that are righteous, but being GOD isn't one of them. That would be impossible because to be GOD one must stand entirely on one's own merits/abilities. To be righteous, one learns to depend on GOD. Someday all those that are redeemed will know once again what it is to be entirely dependent upon GOD for every accomplishment for all eternity.

Those that reject GOD's free offer will one day experience complete and utter separation from GOD and will realize what it's like to not be able to accomplish anything, ever.

I don't presume to know who gets invited or doesn't get invited to the wedding feast so to speak. I also don't presume to know what it will be like other than to say it is either eternally united or eternally separated from God. Yes, everything is dependent upon God who is the creator of existence.

I am curious what do you see as God's free will offer?

But back to Genesis... I see Genesis as ancient man's understanding of the origin questions. It's very complicated. But effectively original sin wasn't disobeying God, it was failing to be accountable for disobeying God. The sin was denying they had done wrong. Not that they had done wrong. That is to be expected. We are only human.

No, Adam and Eve were told that if they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they would surely die. Upon eating the fruit their eyes were open and they realized that they were naked and tried to cover themselves with fig leaves (trying to hide their nakedness from GOD). Adam & Eve had spiritually died. God comes along seeking them out and because of their (Adam & Eve's) change they began to shift the blame. They would never have thought to do this previously ---- but being spiritual death begins to rear its ugly head. The humans had not previously eaten from the Tree of Knowledge until they were TEMPTED. The fact remains is that they listened to Satan and rejected what GOD told them not to do.

It's effectively Jewish mythology which address the origin questions. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye. The original meanings were lost through time.

GOD is not dead nor does HE sleep. The Holy Spirit brings to the redeemed who prayerfully study GOD's Word its interpretation. GOD's Holy Word was transmitted through the Nation of Israel (GOD's Chosen people through which the MESSIAH would come) by GOD.

Ok.

Here is what Jesus the Messiah had to say regarding the traditions of the Jewish Pharisees: Mathew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’”

Sorry, but I firmly believe that the rabbi above is liberal and that his understanding of the Creation story is wrong. GOD revealed it to man. Man is not the author of it. What man made up is not found in the Bible unless it is revealed to be so. This rabbi is clearly attempting to make the Bible fit human theory by nullifying what GOD reveals ---- labeling it Jewish story telling and myth. Yet, it must be assumed that this rabbi clearly clings to a truth that Israel was promised to the Hebrews/Jews, and would be quite upset if suddenly all claims the Jews have regarding Israel were claimed to be null and void being mere myth. No one should pick and choose when it comes to the Word of GOD. Doing such will eventually undermine what one is willing to accept. This is what Jesus taught and Jesus is GOD's SON ------ HE should know.

I'm not attacking it. I am demystifying it. These accounts were passed down orally for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. They were told as stories. Very important stories.

Yes, truth is revealed by God because God is truth. Be careful about worshiping a book instead of the Creator.

You must remember the Bible records exactly what GOD wanted everyone to know and study. So people must be careful not to try to separate the LORD from HIS message.

You must remember the Bible records exactly what GOD wanted everyone to know and study. So people must be careful not to try to separate the LORD from HIS message.

.
that is not true nipper, the christian bible was written over the entire period of the 4th century which is a greater time period from the event than the history of this country, writing as though it had just occurred photo realistically without a single original document for any of the stories depicted or anything written by the religious itinerant who they claimed was a messiah without a shred of evidence ...

Christianity in the 4th century was dominated in its early stage by Constantine the great and the First Council of Nicaea of 325, which was the beginning of the period of the First seven Ecumenical Councils (325–787), and in its late stage by the Edict of Thessalonica of 380, which made Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire.

whether you are a catholic or not it is their christian bible for their gov't religion you are relying on that in truth is a political document disguised as a religion.

not to mention the religion for all three desert religions as prescribed by the Almighty is only 6 words long.

The book of Revelations is reputed to have been written by John in 95 AD. It is also strongly held to be the very last book written and accepted as part of the Bible cannon. Here is what Revelations 22:17-19 records:

17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I firmly believe that the HOLY SPIRIT dominated Constantine and the First Council of Nicaea and not the other way around. GOD was/is in control.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

.
blatant examples of forgeries and fallacies - found on nearly every page of that "book".

your not a catholic are you nipper - then you are yourself a victim of "your" own prophecy. or you believe in their book so where is the difference between the two. for all other congregations. if not yours.

are you afraid of a new counsel to bring that book to life to have the meaning it was meant to have - or just too comfortable with the forgeries and fallacies that are pleasing to you.

You have yet to show one example of a forgery or a fallacy, let alone on nearly every page of that "book."

You know I can almost here your voice slithering when you say that "book."

You have yet to show one example of a forgery or a fallacy, let alone on nearly every page of that "book."

You know I can almost here your voice slithering when you say that "book."

.
you simply are in denial -


Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


4th century forgery / fallacy as written in the 4th century christian bible.

the example has been provided previously. for those that are not sinners the forgeries and fallacies in that book appear on most every page. your being a sinner precludes the truth from being revealed to you and therefore are purposely unaware your beliefs are fantasies, madeup for you in the 4th century where you revel in their absurdity. your self enabling belief in a messiah.

the 1st century religious itinerant either never left an etching of their belief or what was left for posterity was destroyed by the crucifiers then or in the 4th century when they wrote their book.

24,000 written manuscripts say there are no forgeries.

And since you have never shared in Christ's humanity or suffering, you have never tested what He taught. I have.

You don't have beliefs. You have arguments against others having beliefs.

You criticize what you do not believe to arrive at what you do believe without ever having to examine what you believe. You confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something you have never done.

You deny examination of your beliefs because you know your beliefs are irrational. You offer no formal defined dogma of your beliefs because you know they won't stand up to scrutiny. Instead you only have a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. You seek uniformity. I like diversity. God loves diversity. He created it.

.


you ask for a forgery - then run away ...

Yes, you did. I'm still waiting for your proof.

 

[BreezeWood]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

Man decided to believe Satan when he implied that GOD was withholding knowledge that would make them just like GOD. Man can never be GOD. This is the lie Satan tries to spread (GOD is withholding what is rightfully ours). The reality is that only GOD is GOD and there are no others. GOD holds everything together. We can not. GOD has plans for those that are righteous, but being GOD isn't one of them. That would be impossible because to be GOD one must stand entirely on one's own merits/abilities. To be righteous, one learns to depend on GOD. Someday all those that are redeemed will know once again what it is to be entirely dependent upon GOD for every accomplishment for all eternity.

Those that reject GOD's free offer will one day experience complete and utter separation from GOD and will realize what it's like to not be able to accomplish anything, ever.

I don't presume to know who gets invited or doesn't get invited to the wedding feast so to speak. I also don't presume to know what it will be like other than to say it is either eternally united or eternally separated from God. Yes, everything is dependent upon God who is the creator of existence.

I am curious what do you see as God's free will offer?

But back to Genesis... I see Genesis as ancient man's understanding of the origin questions. It's very complicated. But effectively original sin wasn't disobeying God, it was failing to be accountable for disobeying God. The sin was denying they had done wrong. Not that they had done wrong. That is to be expected. We are only human.

No, Adam and Eve were told that if they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they would surely die. Upon eating the fruit their eyes were open and they realized that they were naked and tried to cover themselves with fig leaves (trying to hide their nakedness from GOD). Adam & Eve had spiritually died. God comes along seeking them out and because of their (Adam & Eve's) change they began to shift the blame. They would never have thought to do this previously ---- but being spiritual death begins to rear its ugly head. The humans had not previously eaten from the Tree of Knowledge until they were TEMPTED. The fact remains is that they listened to Satan and rejected what GOD told them not to do.

It's effectively Jewish mythology which address the origin questions. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye. The original meanings were lost through time.

GOD is not dead nor does HE sleep. The Holy Spirit brings to the redeemed who prayerfully study GOD's Word its interpretation. GOD's Holy Word was transmitted through the Nation of Israel (GOD's Chosen people through which the MESSIAH would come) by GOD.

Ok.

Here is what Jesus the Messiah had to say regarding the traditions of the Jewish Pharisees: Mathew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’”

Sorry, but I firmly believe that the rabbi above is liberal and that his understanding of the Creation story is wrong. GOD revealed it to man. Man is not the author of it. What man made up is not found in the Bible unless it is revealed to be so. This rabbi is clearly attempting to make the Bible fit human theory by nullifying what GOD reveals ---- labeling it Jewish story telling and myth. Yet, it must be assumed that this rabbi clearly clings to a truth that Israel was promised to the Hebrews/Jews, and would be quite upset if suddenly all claims the Jews have regarding Israel were claimed to be null and void being mere myth. No one should pick and choose when it comes to the Word of GOD. Doing such will eventually undermine what one is willing to accept. This is what Jesus taught and Jesus is GOD's SON ------ HE should know.

I'm not attacking it. I am demystifying it. These accounts were passed down orally for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. They were told as stories. Very important stories.

Yes, truth is revealed by God because God is truth. Be careful about worshiping a book instead of the Creator.

You must remember the Bible records exactly what GOD wanted everyone to know and study. So people must be careful not to try to separate the LORD from HIS message.

You must remember the Bible records exactly what GOD wanted everyone to know and study. So people must be careful not to try to separate the LORD from HIS message.

.
that is not true nipper, the christian bible was written over the entire period of the 4th century which is a greater time period from the event than the history of this country, writing as though it had just occurred photo realistically without a single original document for any of the stories depicted or anything written by the religious itinerant who they claimed was a messiah without a shred of evidence ...

Christianity in the 4th century was dominated in its early stage by Constantine the great and the First Council of Nicaea of 325, which was the beginning of the period of the First seven Ecumenical Councils (325–787), and in its late stage by the Edict of Thessalonica of 380, which made Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire.

whether you are a catholic or not it is their christian bible for their gov't religion you are relying on that in truth is a political document disguised as a religion.

not to mention the religion for all three desert religions as prescribed by the Almighty is only 6 words long.

The book of Revelations is reputed to have been written by John in 95 AD. It is also strongly held to be the very last book written and accepted as part of the Bible cannon. Here is what Revelations 22:17-19 records:

17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I firmly believe that the HOLY SPIRIT dominated Constantine and the First Council of Nicaea and not the other way around. GOD was/is in control.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

.
blatant examples of forgeries and fallacies - found on nearly every page of that "book".

your not a catholic are you nipper - then you are yourself a victim of "your" own prophecy. or you believe in their book so where is the difference between the two. for all other congregations. if not yours.

are you afraid of a new counsel to bring that book to life to have the meaning it was meant to have - or just too comfortable with the forgeries and fallacies that are pleasing to you.

You have yet to show one example of a forgery or a fallacy, let alone on nearly every page of that "book."

You know I can almost here your voice slithering when you say that "book."

You have yet to show one example of a forgery or a fallacy, let alone on nearly every page of that "book."

You know I can almost here your voice slithering when you say that "book."

.
you simply are in denial -


Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


4th century forgery / fallacy as written in the 4th century christian bible.

the example has been provided previously. for those that are not sinners the forgeries and fallacies in that book appear on most every page. your being a sinner precludes the truth from being revealed to you and therefore are purposely unaware your beliefs are fantasies, madeup for you in the 4th century where you revel in their absurdity. your self enabling belief in a messiah.

the 1st century religious itinerant either never left an etching of their belief or what was left for posterity was destroyed by the crucifiers then or in the 4th century when they wrote their book.

24,000 written manuscripts say there are no forgeries.

And since you have never shared in Christ's humanity or suffering, you have never tested what He taught. I have.

You don't have beliefs. You have arguments against others having beliefs.

You criticize what you do not believe to arrive at what you do believe without ever having to examine what you believe. You confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something you have never done.

You deny examination of your beliefs because you know your beliefs are irrational. You offer no formal defined dogma of your beliefs because you know they won't stand up to scrutiny. Instead you only have a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. You seek uniformity. I like diversity. God loves diversity. He created it.

.


you ask for a forgery - then run away ...

Yes, you did. I'm still waiting for your proof.

Yes, you did. I'm still waiting for your proof.

.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

.
copping out of a response is not a response -

you happen to be a member of the church of the roman empire their christian bible is the only source they have for their beliefs they wrote themselves in the 4th century that has no verification for any of its content and a history from that time to the present of persecution and victimization of the innocent. bing.

the spoken religion of antiquity passed down from the beginning of life and reiterated throughout history including the 1st century will prevail to its conclusion - whether you agree with the religion or not if even by your destructiveness will make no difference.

 

[ding]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

Man decided to believe Satan when he implied that GOD was withholding knowledge that would make them just like GOD. Man can never be GOD. This is the lie Satan tries to spread (GOD is withholding what is rightfully ours). The reality is that only GOD is GOD and there are no others. GOD holds everything together. We can not. GOD has plans for those that are righteous, but being GOD isn't one of them. That would be impossible because to be GOD one must stand entirely on one's own merits/abilities. To be righteous, one learns to depend on GOD. Someday all those that are redeemed will know once again what it is to be entirely dependent upon GOD for every accomplishment for all eternity.

Those that reject GOD's free offer will one day experience complete and utter separation from GOD and will realize what it's like to not be able to accomplish anything, ever.

I don't presume to know who gets invited or doesn't get invited to the wedding feast so to speak. I also don't presume to know what it will be like other than to say it is either eternally united or eternally separated from God. Yes, everything is dependent upon God who is the creator of existence.

I am curious what do you see as God's free will offer?

But back to Genesis... I see Genesis as ancient man's understanding of the origin questions. It's very complicated. But effectively original sin wasn't disobeying God, it was failing to be accountable for disobeying God. The sin was denying they had done wrong. Not that they had done wrong. That is to be expected. We are only human.

No, Adam and Eve were told that if they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they would surely die. Upon eating the fruit their eyes were open and they realized that they were naked and tried to cover themselves with fig leaves (trying to hide their nakedness from GOD). Adam & Eve had spiritually died. God comes along seeking them out and because of their (Adam & Eve's) change they began to shift the blame. They would never have thought to do this previously ---- but being spiritual death begins to rear its ugly head. The humans had not previously eaten from the Tree of Knowledge until they were TEMPTED. The fact remains is that they listened to Satan and rejected what GOD told them not to do.

It's effectively Jewish mythology which address the origin questions. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye. The original meanings were lost through time.

GOD is not dead nor does HE sleep. The Holy Spirit brings to the redeemed who prayerfully study GOD's Word its interpretation. GOD's Holy Word was transmitted through the Nation of Israel (GOD's Chosen people through which the MESSIAH would come) by GOD.

Ok.

Here is what Jesus the Messiah had to say regarding the traditions of the Jewish Pharisees: Mathew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’”

Sorry, but I firmly believe that the rabbi above is liberal and that his understanding of the Creation story is wrong. GOD revealed it to man. Man is not the author of it. What man made up is not found in the Bible unless it is revealed to be so. This rabbi is clearly attempting to make the Bible fit human theory by nullifying what GOD reveals ---- labeling it Jewish story telling and myth. Yet, it must be assumed that this rabbi clearly clings to a truth that Israel was promised to the Hebrews/Jews, and would be quite upset if suddenly all claims the Jews have regarding Israel were claimed to be null and void being mere myth. No one should pick and choose when it comes to the Word of GOD. Doing such will eventually undermine what one is willing to accept. This is what Jesus taught and Jesus is GOD's SON ------ HE should know.

I'm not attacking it. I am demystifying it. These accounts were passed down orally for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. They were told as stories. Very important stories.

Yes, truth is revealed by God because God is truth. Be careful about worshiping a book instead of the Creator.

You must remember the Bible records exactly what GOD wanted everyone to know and study. So people must be careful not to try to separate the LORD from HIS message.

You must remember the Bible records exactly what GOD wanted everyone to know and study. So people must be careful not to try to separate the LORD from HIS message.

.
that is not true nipper, the christian bible was written over the entire period of the 4th century which is a greater time period from the event than the history of this country, writing as though it had just occurred photo realistically without a single original document for any of the stories depicted or anything written by the religious itinerant who they claimed was a messiah without a shred of evidence ...

Christianity in the 4th century was dominated in its early stage by Constantine the great and the First Council of Nicaea of 325, which was the beginning of the period of the First seven Ecumenical Councils (325–787), and in its late stage by the Edict of Thessalonica of 380, which made Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire.

whether you are a catholic or not it is their christian bible for their gov't religion you are relying on that in truth is a political document disguised as a religion.

not to mention the religion for all three desert religions as prescribed by the Almighty is only 6 words long.

The book of Revelations is reputed to have been written by John in 95 AD. It is also strongly held to be the very last book written and accepted as part of the Bible cannon. Here is what Revelations 22:17-19 records:

17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I firmly believe that the HOLY SPIRIT dominated Constantine and the First Council of Nicaea and not the other way around. GOD was/is in control.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

.
blatant examples of forgeries and fallacies - found on nearly every page of that "book".

your not a catholic are you nipper - then you are yourself a victim of "your" own prophecy. or you believe in their book so where is the difference between the two. for all other congregations. if not yours.

are you afraid of a new counsel to bring that book to life to have the meaning it was meant to have - or just too comfortable with the forgeries and fallacies that are pleasing to you.

You have yet to show one example of a forgery or a fallacy, let alone on nearly every page of that "book."

You know I can almost here your voice slithering when you say that "book."

You have yet to show one example of a forgery or a fallacy, let alone on nearly every page of that "book."

You know I can almost here your voice slithering when you say that "book."

.
you simply are in denial -


Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


4th century forgery / fallacy as written in the 4th century christian bible.

the example has been provided previously. for those that are not sinners the forgeries and fallacies in that book appear on most every page. your being a sinner precludes the truth from being revealed to you and therefore are purposely unaware your beliefs are fantasies, madeup for you in the 4th century where you revel in their absurdity. your self enabling belief in a messiah.

the 1st century religious itinerant either never left an etching of their belief or what was left for posterity was destroyed by the crucifiers then or in the 4th century when they wrote their book.

24,000 written manuscripts say there are no forgeries.

And since you have never shared in Christ's humanity or suffering, you have never tested what He taught. I have.

You don't have beliefs. You have arguments against others having beliefs.

You criticize what you do not believe to arrive at what you do believe without ever having to examine what you believe. You confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something you have never done.

You deny examination of your beliefs because you know your beliefs are irrational. You offer no formal defined dogma of your beliefs because you know they won't stand up to scrutiny. Instead you only have a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. You seek uniformity. I like diversity. God loves diversity. He created it.

.


you ask for a forgery - then run away ...

Yes, you did. I'm still waiting for your proof.

Yes, you did. I'm still waiting for your proof.

.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

.
copping out of a response is not a response -

you happen to be a member of the church of the roman empire their christian bible is the only source they have for their beliefs they wrote themselves in the 4th century that has no verification for any of its content and a history from that time to the present of persecution and victimization of the innocent. bing.

the spoken religion of antiquity passed down from the beginning of life and reiterated throughout history including the 1st century will prevail to its conclusion - whether you agree with the religion or not if even by your destructiveness will make no difference.

The practices, beliefs and traditions of early Christians say otherwise.

 

[LittleNipper]

He didnt create "imperfect beings". You make the choice to be as "imperfect" as you want to be, every day. Sin is your choice.

If God is the First Cause of Creation, He did create imperfect beings.

GOD created perfection. It was a choice to become "like GOD." It is impossible to be GOD.

If God really created perfection, there would have been no original sin.

What do you believe original sin is exactly? I'm not looking for a theological argument per se. More like a common sense observation about the nature of man so to speak.

Apparently it was that act which turned us from the perfection God created into imperfect beings worthy of eternal damnation. Biting an apple? Really?

That seems too simplistic to me, so it must be something else. Something deeper. Something that should be more apparent when discovered.

Man decided to believe Satan when he implied that GOD was withholding knowledge that would make them just like GOD. Man can never be GOD. This is the lie Satan tries to spread (GOD is withholding what is rightfully ours). The reality is that only GOD is GOD and there are no others. GOD holds everything together. We can not. GOD has plans for those that are righteous, but being GOD isn't one of them. That would be impossible because to be GOD one must stand entirely on one's own merits/abilities. To be righteous, one learns to depend on GOD. Someday all those that are redeemed will know once again what it is to be entirely dependent upon GOD for every accomplishment for all eternity.

Those that reject GOD's free offer will one day experience complete and utter separation from GOD and will realize what it's like to not be able to accomplish anything, ever.

I don't presume to know who gets invited or doesn't get invited to the wedding feast so to speak. I also don't presume to know what it will be like other than to say it is either eternally united or eternally separated from God. Yes, everything is dependent upon God who is the creator of existence.

I am curious what do you see as God's free will offer?

But back to Genesis... I see Genesis as ancient man's understanding of the origin questions. It's very complicated. But effectively original sin wasn't disobeying God, it was failing to be accountable for disobeying God. The sin was denying they had done wrong. Not that they had done wrong. That is to be expected. We are only human.

No, Adam and Eve were told that if they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge that they would surely die. Upon eating the fruit their eyes were open and they realized that they were naked and tried to cover themselves with fig leaves (trying to hide their nakedness from GOD). Adam & Eve had spiritually died. God comes along seeking them out and because of their (Adam & Eve's) change they began to shift the blame. They would never have thought to do this previously ---- but being spiritual death begins to rear its ugly head. The humans had not previously eaten from the Tree of Knowledge until they were TEMPTED. The fact remains is that they listened to Satan and rejected what GOD told them not to do.

It's effectively Jewish mythology which address the origin questions. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye. The original meanings were lost through time.

GOD is not dead nor does HE sleep. The Holy Spirit brings to the redeemed who prayerfully study GOD's Word its interpretation. GOD's Holy Word was transmitted through the Nation of Israel (GOD's Chosen people through which the MESSIAH would come) by GOD.

Ok.

Here is what Jesus the Messiah had to say regarding the traditions of the Jewish Pharisees: Mathew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’”

Sorry, but I firmly believe that the rabbi above is liberal and that his understanding of the Creation story is wrong. GOD revealed it to man. Man is not the author of it. What man made up is not found in the Bible unless it is revealed to be so. This rabbi is clearly attempting to make the Bible fit human theory by nullifying what GOD reveals ---- labeling it Jewish story telling and myth. Yet, it must be assumed that this rabbi clearly clings to a truth that Israel was promised to the Hebrews/Jews, and would be quite upset if suddenly all claims the Jews have regarding Israel were claimed to be null and void being mere myth. No one should pick and choose when it comes to the Word of GOD. Doing such will eventually undermine what one is willing to accept. This is what Jesus taught and Jesus is GOD's SON ------ HE should know.

I'm not attacking it. I am demystifying it. These accounts were passed down orally for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. They were told as stories. Very important stories.

Yes, truth is revealed by God because God is truth. Be careful about worshiping a book instead of the Creator.

You must remember the Bible records exactly what GOD wanted everyone to know and study. So people must be careful not to try to separate the LORD from HIS message.

You must remember the Bible records exactly what GOD wanted everyone to know and study. So people must be careful not to try to separate the LORD from HIS message.

.
that is not true nipper, the christian bible was written over the entire period of the 4th century which is a greater time period from the event than the history of this country, writing as though it had just occurred photo realistically without a single original document for any of the stories depicted or anything written by the religious itinerant who they claimed was a messiah without a shred of evidence ...

Christianity in the 4th century was dominated in its early stage by Constantine the great and the First Council of Nicaea of 325, which was the beginning of the period of the First seven Ecumenical Councils (325–787), and in its late stage by the Edict of Thessalonica of 380, which made Nicene Christianity the state church of the Roman Empire.

whether you are a catholic or not it is their christian bible for their gov't religion you are relying on that in truth is a political document disguised as a religion.

not to mention the religion for all three desert religions as prescribed by the Almighty is only 6 words long.

The book of Revelations is reputed to have been written by John in 95 AD. It is also strongly held to be the very last book written and accepted as part of the Bible cannon. Here is what Revelations 22:17-19 records:

17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I firmly believe that the HOLY SPIRIT dominated Constantine and the First Council of Nicaea and not the other way around. GOD was/is in control.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

.
blatant examples of forgeries and fallacies - found on nearly every page of that "book".

your not a catholic are you nipper - then you are yourself a victim of "your" own prophecy. or you believe in their book so where is the difference between the two. for all other congregations. if not yours.

are you afraid of a new counsel to bring that book to life to have the meaning it was meant to have - or just too comfortable with the forgeries and fallacies that are pleasing to you.

You have yet to show one example of a forgery or a fallacy, let alone on nearly every page of that "book."

You know I can almost here your voice slithering when you say that "book."

You have yet to show one example of a forgery or a fallacy, let alone on nearly every page of that "book."

You know I can almost here your voice slithering when you say that "book."

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you simply are in denial -


Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


4th century forgery / fallacy as written in the 4th century christian bible.

the example has been provided previously. for those that are not sinners the forgeries and fallacies in that book appear on most every page. your being a sinner precludes the truth from being revealed to you and therefore are purposely unaware your beliefs are fantasies, madeup for you in the 4th century where you revel in their absurdity. your self enabling belief in a messiah.

the 1st century religious itinerant either never left an etching of their belief or what was left for posterity was destroyed by the crucifiers then or in the 4th century when they wrote their book.

24,000 written manuscripts say there are no forgeries.

And since you have never shared in Christ's humanity or suffering, you have never tested what He taught. I have.

You don't have beliefs. You have arguments against others having beliefs.

You criticize what you do not believe to arrive at what you do believe without ever having to examine what you believe. You confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something you have never done.

You deny examination of your beliefs because you know your beliefs are irrational. You offer no formal defined dogma of your beliefs because you know they won't stand up to scrutiny. Instead you only have a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. You seek uniformity. I like diversity. God loves diversity. He created it.

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you ask for a forgery - then run away ...

The Book of Mormon is a forgery. The Book of Abraham is a forgery. The New World Translation is a corrupt distorted translation. The good thing about any translation is that there are always earlier copies in the original language to review and compare against. There are early Hebrew and Greek copies of the Old Testament. There is little to say about the Book of Mormon except the only early copies existing are not anywhere near as old as the Bible. It has not even been around as long as the Constitution of the United States... AND it depends entirely on it validity from Joseph Smith. No one else had anything to do with its translated existence. The Book of Abraham is not correct in anyway shape or form. It is a pagan book of the dead. Abraham would have had nothing to do with such a book, any more than pentagrams and Ouji boards.

 

[onefour1]

The Book of Mormon does not rely entirely upon Joseph Smith. That is a false statement.

There were 11 witnesses who saw and held the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated. 3 of them beheld an angel show it unto them. (see

Witnesses of the Book of Mormon

Witnesses of the Book of Mormon

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

)

 

[onefour1]

Regarding the Book of Abraham, the following two links discuss the Church's position on it and the refutation of objections to its authenticity.

Book of Abraham Translation

Book of Abraham/Joseph Smith Papyri/Text https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Book_of_Abraham/Joseph_Smith_Papyri/Text

 

[LittleNipper]

The Book of Mormon does not rely entirely upon Joseph Smith. That is a false statement.

There were 11 witnesses who saw and held the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated. 3 of them beheld an angel show it unto them. (see

Witnesses of the Book of Mormon

Witnesses of the Book of Mormon

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

)

Obviously, it does because ONLY Joseph Smith supposedly found and translated the now missing gold plates into the Book of Mormon. Without Mr. Smith, his 11 friends and relatives would have had nothing to observe. The entire Church of the Latter Day Saints rests on the shoulders of Mr. Joseph Smith, whom that organization focuses on as its Stellar PROPHET.

 

[LittleNipper]

As for the Book of Abraham, it was again entirely the creative influence of Joseph Smith. AND the truth is that nowhere in the Bible is any prophet of the Almighty God influenced by some "catalyst" that is an obvious work of PAGANS.The Holy Spirit is the influence of GOD's Holy Truth, and none is derived from Satanic origin. The Church of the Latter Day Saints is really stuck. Either everything Joseph Smith revealed was from GOD or NONE of it was. And I can plainly see that Joseph Smith was not lead by the Holy Spirit but was driven by vanity, pride, and a selfish grasp for power! It is probable that he was demon possessed, as was Hitler.

 

[onefour1]

Here are the testimonies of the 3 witnesses who saw the angel and the other 8 witnesses who also saw and handled the plates:

3 Witnesses

8 Witnesses