When man tells God, you can't....

[Jackson]

When man tells God, You can't tell me what to do.... it's like saying he/she was there in the very beginning telling God what to make/create and what not to make/create.

I wouldn't tell God what to do, but would ask him why he created imperfect beings and then punish them eternally for being imperfect.

I believe you don't have the story straight. God created man and woman. He didn't make the perfect. He made them good, but as in all of us, we fall into sin just by living our lives and falling prey to the sins of the world.

But he was so merciful, he came to us again when Jesus was born and we were given a chance to redeem ourselves with the words he spoke and the love he put in our hearts. What we do with those words and that love is up to us. We can return to God again. It's up to use. We are all sinners, remember that and all we have to do is recognize he gave his own son to save us from hell.

Some days I wonder if I didn't love and have already been judged and am living in hell when I see what this country is turning into. I pray that is not true.

 

[Meriweather]

I dunno, but whatever it is, is it the right one?

Just because I declare 2+2=4, it does not become "my" interpretation. I can take no credit for it.

I go back to the original history, culture, language, author, audience of a Biblical story, which means I cannot claim it as my interpretation either as I am merely reporting data.

Nor can I claim Literalness of the Bible as my own interpretation when all I am doing is reporting what was decided by Evangelicals in the 1970s. Same with "Rapture", same with Young Earth--both of which caused me to raise an eyebrow because these declarations only started up a few hundred years ago, not the thousands of years which then date back to Biblical times. I can also go back to the original language when someone suddenly declares that in the Bible, "earth" means the entire planet.

Think of it like this: Is it your interpretation that the United States won the American Revolution? Or are you merely reporting on data available to everyone? In the same way, I do not interpret the Bible, I merely report data available to everyone.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I don't tell God what to do, but I certainly ask him often "why me?" I hope one day I receive the answer.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't tell God what to do, but I certainly ask him often "why me?" I hope one day I receive the answer.

Saint Teresa asked that "Why me?" question of God. He replied, "It is the way I treat all of my friends." Saint Teresa retorted, "No wonder You have so few."

 

[LittleNipper]

When man tells God, You can't tell me what to do.... it's like saying he/she was there in the very beginning telling God what to make/create and what not to make/create.

So an invisible person is telling you what to do? Get some help. Soon.

GOD speaks through HIS Holy Word. And if you obey what HE says there one can very likely live longer and more contently, then if one rants and raves and becomes a creature of habits.

So god speaks through a book? Why can’t he do something better, and especially more convincing?

Nothing that JESUS did directly in front of the Pharisees and Sadducee was good enough for them. I don't see how anything at this point would be any different in your regard.

 

[LittleNipper]

So god speaks through a book? Why can’t he do something better, and especially more convincing?

God speaks through words. Words have great power.

Words in a 2000 year old book. He needs an update. God 2.0.

The Bible is just as relevant today as it was yesterday.

 

[onefour1]

God has revealed the answer to the problem of evil in his more modern revelations. The first concept to understand is that ex nihilo creation is a false concept. Mankind was never created out of nothing. The truth is that mankind is eternal in nature. All of us have always existed. We've existed originally as intelligences.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.


The truth is that creation is the process of organization of intelligence and matter.

Abraham 3:18
18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

The spirits spoken of in the above verse refer to intelligences. Since the intelligences have always existed and are eternal, God could not create them from nothing. In fact, as an intelligence, they have free will are able to progress as fast as they choose. This is the reason that some are more intelligence than others. They applied themselves. However, we as intelligences were not perfect.

Since God did not create our intelligence, He could not create them to be perfect. We progress as fast as we are willing to progress of our own free will. Since we were not perfect and God could not create us to be perfect, He created a situation for us to learn to become more like Himself. The first thing God did was to organize us into his spirit children through the process of procreation.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

As spirit children of the Father we existed before the world was and lived in his presence. While there, we learned of a further advancement for ourselves. This advancement would require that we come down to a fallen world and learn to choose good over evil after having our memory of the our previous existence taken from us and not be allowed to be in the presence of God. This way we would learn to choose good over evil in and of ourselves and not be in the presence of God and have that influence our choice since it was a quite powerful influence. We were to learn to walk by faith.

While living in the presence of God, God had a plan for us to come to the world we live on now which is a fallen world. There we would experience true evil as well as good. This experience would help us develop our own inner self to choose good over evil in the very face of evil itself. For us to progress, it would be most important that we make the choice to be good in and of ourselves. This would make us more like our Father in heaven. While in this pre-mortal state, God presented his plan to us. But one of the most advanced of God's children (Lucifer) thought that he had a better plan than the Father. His plan was to force us all to be good beings and by doing so he would save all of the Father's children. This plan was presented before the Father and the Father rejected it. It was rejected because mankind cannot become more like God by being forced to do so. For a being to become more like God, he would have to choose, in and of himself, to be like God. Nobody tells God what to do. He does what He does of his own free will and choice. He does what he does because his character is good. He is not forced. For his children to become like him, they need to learn to choose good in and of themselves. Only in this way would they become like their Father.

Once Lucifer's plan was rejected, He rebelled against the Father and set out to overthrow his Father by attempting to gather support from all his children. He was quite successful and managed to gain the support of 1/3 of all the children of God who were to come to this earth.

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

In this verse we see a war in heaven over the souls of mankind. Satan attempted to lead others away from the Father and to follow his plan. He eventually was cast out of heaven into this earth. At that moment he became the agent of evil that man would be tempted by in the earth.

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

As the spirit children of the Father, we were not perfect and God knew that we would make mistakes while in this mortal life. But this life was a chance for us to improve and become more like the Father. However, the mistakes we make in this world under the law of justice would keep us from returning to God in his heavenly kingdom. God knew and understood this prior to sending us here. For this reason he had a plan, known as the plan of salvation, where by he would send a Savior to redeem all those who would repent of their sins (see my next post for how this plan of salvation would work).

So we see that because mankind have always existed that God could not create from nothing that which already exists. And because of our imperfect state that we already existed in, God could not create us perfect. So, he organized us into his children and gave us a spirit body. He would then create an earth where upon we could come and take on bodies of flesh and bones and receive in ourselves the power of procreation. Because of our imperfection, God knew that mankind would make bad decisions. Even some would go against God. This is the real reason there is evil in the world. Satan was cast into the world and imperfect mankind would at times succomb to the evil one. God knowing this from the beginning, prepared a Savior of mankind before the foundations of this earth to come and save mankind.

1 Peter 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

 

[JoeB131]

When did this last murder take place? What was the name of the last person who died for not believing in Transubstantiation? Or, did you make this up? While you are looking up that bit of information, perhaps look up murder statistics on these other groups as well. Or, are you asserting only Christians ever killed anyone?

Christians do hold the record for killing people.... The Holocaust- all done by Christians. Colonialism, Imperialism, World Wars... All brought to you by Followers of Jesus.

Hey, you did hear about the Thirty Years War, when Protestants and Christians wiped out 8 million people across Europe over whether or not Jesus was made of wafers.

 

[JoeB131]

God has revealed the answer to the problem of evil in his more modern revelations. The first concept to understand is that ex nihilo creation is a false concept. Mankind was never created out of nothing. The truth is that mankind is eternal in nature. All of us have always existed. We've existed originally as intelligences.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.


The truth is that creation is the process of organization of intelligence and matter.

Abraham 3:18
18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

The spirits spoken of in the above verse refer to intelligences. Since the intelligences have always existed and are eternal, God could not create them from nothing. In fact, as an intelligence, they have free will are able to progress as fast as they choose. This is the reason that some are more intelligence than others. They applied themselves. However, we as intelligences were not perfect.

Since God did not create our intelligence, He could not create them to be perfect. We progress as fast as we are willing to progress of our own free will. Since we were not perfect and God could not create us to be perfect, He created a situation for us to learn to become more like Himself. The first thing God did was to organize us into his spirit children through the process of procreation.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

As spirit children of the Father we existed before the world was and lived in his presence. While there, we learned of a further advancement for ourselves. This advancement would require that we come down to a fallen world and learn to choose good over evil after having our memory of the our previous existence taken from us and not be allowed to be in the presence of God. This way we would learn to choose good over evil in and of ourselves and not be in the presence of God and have that influence our choice since it was a quite powerful influence. We were to learn to walk by faith.

While living in the presence of God, God had a plan for us to come to the world we live on now which is a fallen world. There we would experience true evil as well as good. This experience would help us develop our own inner self to choose good over evil in the very face of evil itself. For us to progress, it would be most important that we make the choice to be good in and of ourselves. This would make us more like our Father in heaven. While in this pre-mortal state, God presented his plan to us. But one of the most advanced of God's children (Lucifer) thought that he had a better plan than the Father. His plan was to force us all to be good beings and by doing so he would save all of the Father's children. This plan was presented before the Father and the Father rejected it. It was rejected because mankind cannot become more like God by being forced to do so. For a being to become more like God, he would have to choose, in and of himself, to be like God. Nobody tells God what to do. He does what He does of his own free will and choice. He does what he does because his character is good. He is not forced. For his children to become like him, they need to learn to choose good in and of themselves. Only in this way would they become like their Father.

Once Lucifer's plan was rejected, He rebelled against the Father and set out to overthrow his Father by attempting to gather support from all his children. He was quite successful and managed to gain the support of 1/3 of all the children of God who were to come to this earth.

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

In this verse we see a war in heaven over the souls of mankind. Satan attempted to lead others away from the Father and to follow his plan. He eventually was cast out of heaven into this earth. At that moment he became the agent of evil that man would be tempted by in the earth.

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

As the spirit children of the Father, we were not perfect and God knew that we would make mistakes while in this mortal life. But this life was a chance for us to improve and become more like the Father. However, the mistakes we make in this world under the law of justice would keep us from returning to God in his heavenly kingdom. God knew and understood this prior to sending us here. For this reason he had a plan, known as the plan of salvation, where by he would send a Savior to redeem all those who would repent of their sins (see my next post for how this plan of salvation would work).

So we see that because mankind have always existed that God could not create from nothing that which already exists. And because of our imperfect state that we already existed in, God could not create us perfect. So, he organized us into his children and gave us a spirit body. He would then create an earth where upon we could come and take on bodies of flesh and bones and receive in ourselves the power of procreation. Because of our imperfection, God knew that mankind would make bad decisions. Even some would go against God. This is the real reason there is evil in the world. Satan was cast into the world and imperfect mankind would at times succomb to the evil one. God knowing this from the beginning, prepared a Savior of mankind before the foundations of this earth to come and save mankind.

1 Peter 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Holy Shit, we have a Mormon pretending Joseph Smith's Bible Fan Fic is real.

 

[JoeB131]

Saint Teresa asked that "Why me?" question of God. He replied, "It is the way I treat all of my friends." Saint Teresa retorted, "No wonder You have so few."

Then that nasty bitch watched people die on the floor of her filthy Hospital, while she flew off to the Mayo Clinic.

 

[Meriweather]

while she flew off to the Mayo Clinic.

Really. Didn't know there were Mayo Clinics in the 1500s, let alone airplanes.

 

[Meriweather]

Christians do hold the record for killing people.... The Holocaust- all done by Christians. Colonialism, Imperialism, World Wars... All brought to you by Followers of Jesus.

Hey, you did hear about the Thirty Years War, when Protestants and Christians wiped out 8 million people across Europe over whether or not Jesus was made of wafers.

Sorry, you knowledge of history and the underpinnings of the causes of wars leave a lot to be desired. However, your point comes across. You hate Christians and Christianity and hold both in contempt. Shrug.

 

[JoeB131]

Really. Didn't know there were Mayo Clinics in the 1500s, let alone airplanes.

I thought you were talking about that nasty peice of shit, Mother Teresa... So hard to keep all your fake godlings in line.

Sorry, you knowledge of history and the underpinnings of the causes of wars leave a lot to be desired. However, your point comes across. You hate Christians and Christianity and hold both in contempt. Shrug.

Sorry, I have a degree in History. I just talk about the stuff polite people don't talk about... because I don't do polite.

Christian Europe was responsible for most of the horrors of the modern age, all with the Churches cheering them on like mad lunatics. KILL FOR JESUS!!!!!

 

[Meriweather]

I have a degree in History

Then you, of all people, should know better.

 

[JoeB131]

Then you, of all people, should know better.

I do know better. The best way to get a stupid person to murder someone he has never met and hasn't bothered him is to tell him God wants him to.

 

[Meriweather]

I just talk about the stuff polite people don't talk about... because I don't do polite.

Your strong suit isn't exactness, either. Could it be your drive to be rude obscures any accuracy? As a historian you should be well aware that there is never any one cause for upheaval. You should also know that at that time there was no separation of Church and State/Politicians and the politicos knew which buttons to push to get people to line up for their own causes (greed and power). Wars are not about Transubstantiation or even the Laws of God. They are always about greed and power.

 

[Meriweather]

I do know better. The best way to get a stupid person to murder someone he has never met and hasn't bothered him is to tell him God wants him to.

And there you have it; your belief that people are stupid. All except yourself, of course.

 

[JoeB131]

And there you have it; your belief that people are stupid. All except yourself, of course.

Religious people are stupid. Easily manipulated.

Wars are not about Transubstantiation or even the Laws of God. They are always about greed and power.

True, but the way to get stupid people to fight them was to appeal to their religious stupidity... that was the thing.

 

[Meriweather]

Religious people are stupid. Easily manipulated.

Were you? Or do you mean "other" religious people--everyone but you?

 

[Meriweather]

True, but the way to get stupid people to fight them was to appeal to their religious stupidity... that was the thing.

Exactly, not to mention Mom, Country, and Apple Pie. Get to what is held closest to a people's heart, and then call them stupid. Or the Great Unwashed. Works every time for all you wise ones.

Listen, Joe, you are not anywhere close to getting to me. Obviously you are very bright, and was an equally bright child who ran into some of the stringent kinds of thinkers who applied that stringency to a career in religious life. 'Some' is the key word. It does not--and never did--apply to all. Painting with a broad brush may cover a lot of ground, but it is sadly missing in interesting and intricate details.