When did Liberals become establishment sell-outs?

MarathonMike

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
 

B. Kidd

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
Ever since SCOTUS decided the 2000 election in favor of Bush, Democrats made a pact with the devil from thereon in, to put party before country, no matter how corrupt their own party became!
 

emilynghiem

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Dear MarathonMike
The same way the Greens teach that the abuse of corporations, to invoke the same collective influence as govt does while being able to bypass the Constitutional check and balances by claiming "rights as individual persons"
it's the corporate influence that corrupts the govt, media and parties, because they have more power than individuals.
So it's harder to check these.

As soon as corporate interests can buy out any person in a process, then no one else can compete without
equal corporate backing.

We've lost our courts to this, where corporate lawyers push state matters into federal courts in order to win,
we've lost our media, our govt, and our parties to this corporate influence that's run amok.

The only difference between Dems and GOP is the
working people supposedly represented by the Democrats can't afford to lose once
they've sold their shirts and souls to corporate money interests.

When the GOP make a bad deal they dump it on taxpayers as corporate welfare and make others pay.
When Democrats do the same, the people they screw can't afford the hit.

so both are playing the same games, and the politicians at the top
win at the pyramid scheme the taxpayers get stuck paying the bill for.

but the party of the poor can't afford the cost.
so those constituents get screwed worse.

at least the business people who are experienced enough to support conservatives
tend to have enough knowledge to cut losses and write them off their taxes.

the poor who don't have equal knowledge of business or property management
have nowhere to turn and keep depending on govt for the hope of a bailout.

that's the difference.
 

jwoodie

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Modern corrupt liberalism started with the unfortunate (40%) election of Woodrow Wilson, a hypocritical racist who thought he could save the world with his ideological theories, which led to the disastrous Versailles Treaty and guaranteed WW2. When faced with a choice between his lofty 14 Points for peace and corporate interests demanding repayment of their loans, Wilson sided with the latter and saddled Germany with paying for the entire cost of WW1.

Obama makes a nice bookend for this ill-begotten movement. The only difference is that he has saddled America with paying the entire cost of the Great Recession, which was caused by liberal insistence that banks make home loans to unqualified borrowers in order to increase home ownership.
 
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Pumpkin Row

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Since the day the usage of the word "Liberal" changed, you just haven't realized it until now.
 
OP
MarathonMike

MarathonMike

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Dear MarathonMike
The same way the Greens teach that the abuse of corporations, to invoke the same collective influence as govt does while being able to bypass the Constitutional check and balances by claiming "rights as individual persons"
it's the corporate influence that corrupts the govt, media and parties, because they have more power than individuals.
So it's harder to check these.

As soon as corporate interests can buy out any person in a process, then no one else can compete without
equal corporate backing.

We've lost our courts to this, where corporate lawyers push state matters into federal courts in order to win,
we've lost our media, our govt, and our parties to this corporate influence that's run amok.

The only difference between Dems and GOP is the
working people supposedly represented by the Democrats can't afford to lose once
they've sold their shirts and souls to corporate money interests.

When the GOP make a bad deal they dump it on taxpayers as corporate welfare and make others pay.
When Democrats do the same, the people they screw can't afford the hit.

so both are playing the same games, and the politicians at the top
win at the pyramid scheme the taxpayers get stuck paying the bill for.

but the party of the poor can't afford the cost.
so those constituents get screwed worse.

at least the business people who are experienced enough to support conservatives
tend to have enough knowledge to cut losses and write them off their taxes.

the poor who don't have equal knowledge of business or property management
have nowhere to turn and keep depending on govt for the hope of a bailout.

that's the difference.
I agree with you that Corporations buy their way into both Parties because ultimately they want to be able to influence policy to their advantage no matter who wins the horse race. Corporate leaders and the Political elite are an evil partnership and not near enough is done to disrupt it. And yes when things go bad with policy or the economy the poor take the brunt of the hit.

But how do you really improve things for the poor? Eeking out another percent or two in welfare or tweaking the minimum wage is just medicating a sick person so they feel less miserable. Political parties are responsible for introducing sound policies that make things better for America and all Americans.

For example, You could make an argument that Obamacare improved health care for the poor but that was done largely through an enormous Medicaid expansion. If that's all the intent was, it was terrible policy to screw up the entire health care system to expand Medicaid. The side effect is that more tax money will be consumed propping up Obamacare thus taking away revenue that could have gone to jobs programs e.g. that could bring real quality of life to the poor.

Bad policy, corporate influence and media bias are IMO the three things that are keeping America from being "great".

And winding my way back to the OP, I contend that back in the day Liberals would have been on the front line calling out the bad policy, the corporate influence and media bias but they are silent.
 

jillian

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
when did republicans become the representatives of the alt right? as long as donald represents the breitbart radical right "base" of the GOP, there isn't any reason to vote for him.

why would we vote for someone who doesn't know anything?
 

AnCap'n_Murica

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"When did Liberals become establishment sell-outs?"

The moment they attained the power of the establishment.

 

emilynghiem

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Dear MarathonMike
The same way the Greens teach that the abuse of corporations, to invoke the same collective influence as govt does while being able to bypass the Constitutional check and balances by claiming "rights as individual persons"
it's the corporate influence that corrupts the govt, media and parties, because they have more power than individuals.
So it's harder to check these.

As soon as corporate interests can buy out any person in a process, then no one else can compete without
equal corporate backing.

We've lost our courts to this, where corporate lawyers push state matters into federal courts in order to win,
we've lost our media, our govt, and our parties to this corporate influence that's run amok.

The only difference between Dems and GOP is the
working people supposedly represented by the Democrats can't afford to lose once
they've sold their shirts and souls to corporate money interests.

When the GOP make a bad deal they dump it on taxpayers as corporate welfare and make others pay.
When Democrats do the same, the people they screw can't afford the hit.

so both are playing the same games, and the politicians at the top
win at the pyramid scheme the taxpayers get stuck paying the bill for.

but the party of the poor can't afford the cost.
so those constituents get screwed worse.

at least the business people who are experienced enough to support conservatives
tend to have enough knowledge to cut losses and write them off their taxes.

the poor who don't have equal knowledge of business or property management
have nowhere to turn and keep depending on govt for the hope of a bailout.

that's the difference.
I agree with you that Corporations buy their way into both Parties because ultimately they want to be able to influence policy to their advantage no matter who wins the horse race. Corporate leaders and the Political elite are an evil partnership and not near enough is done to disrupt it. And yes when things go bad with policy or the economy the poor take the brunt of the hit.

But how do you really improve things for the poor? Eeking out another percent or two in welfare or tweaking the minimum wage is just medicating a sick person so they feel less miserable. Political parties are responsible for introducing sound policies that make things better for America and all Americans.

For example, You could make an argument that Obamacare improved health care for the poor but that was done largely through an enormous Medicaid expansion. If that's all the intent was, it was terrible policy to screw up the entire health care system to expand Medicaid. The side effect is that more tax money will be consumed propping up Obamacare thus taking away revenue that could have gone to jobs programs e.g. that could bring real quality of life to the poor.

Bad policy, corporate influence and media bias are IMO the three things that are keeping America from being "great".

And winding my way back to the OP, I contend that back in the day Liberals would have been on the front line calling out the bad policy, the corporate influence and media bias but they are silent.
Dear MarathonMike Leaders like Carson and Obama already know the solution
is microlending and business training to lift people and communities up out of poverty the right way.
The Greens also teach fair trade, cooperative workers management, independent currency that is labor based,
and consensus based decision making so people learn conflict resolution and group management needed for
democratic due process and self-governance. The Libertarians have knowledge of Constitutional due process
and grand jury systems, checks and balances, and teach what is overreaching or abuse of power, so citizens
can be taught how to police and manage their own govt and not be helpless victims playing follow the leader.

We have all these answers, and are only held back because parties are divided from each other
and competing for power, instead of working together to assimilate these answers into a cohesive system.

What I suggest is setting up training systems or programs to mentor and teach business and govt mgmt skills.
Like setting up internship/mentorship programs in all areas of govt admin, business and property mgmt,
banking and credit, etc. So people organize by party around their local school districts, clinics they want to
develop as medical intern and resident programs, police and teachers unions, etc. And start investing in
building campus systems around the districts, businesses, and facilities they have, especially schools.

So the poor and struggling districts can be paired with mentors and corporate sponsors with resources
to "lend" into that group, give tax breaks as incentives for those with more to help those with less
LEARN TO BECOME INDEPENDENT and break the cycle of poverty and dependence on charity and govt welfare.

I would start with the Black leadership who have for too long been divided from each other, left and right,
and encourage and reward efforts to team up as partners and invest donations and microloans into
creating jobs for Mentors/Interns to set up their own business plans and schools to rebuild their districts.

If everyone petitioned the Black pastors divided left and right over the BLM movement,
and offered to start donating to sponsor microloans for "Business Leaders and Mentors"
we could see a massive change overnight and stop this divisive media and party bullying going on left and right.

So I hope this is where Trump ends up pushing to get more cooperation going among working people
who aren't represented or benefiting by this corporate bulldog fight for power between the parties.

If we start with the Black leadership who have taken the worst hits over this,
because the Black communities have been the hardest hit by the class division over rich pitted against poor,
then we can have a positive role model for the rest of the nation to follow by example.

I believe this will come from the Black communities who have been struggling the most for justice while
recovering from generations of genocidal hatred and resentment about property laws abused to keep Blacks subjugated and oppressed. It's really been a fight to overcome the division between "field slaves and house slaves"
so the first step to ending this vicious cycle is to unite the rich and the poor instead of exploiting blame between them.

That has been the worst enemy of all, being divided against each other.
Killing the Black communities, and spreading to divide America by party of the rich vs the poor
so that the corporate masters can play the taxpayers like "field slaves and house slaves" both competing
for scraps while the corporate interests keep paying each other benefits back and forth at our expense.
 

frigidweirdo

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
I don't remember a time when a whole political spectrum acted in the same manner, but you seem to have rose tinted glasses....
 

Pumpkin Row

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
when did republicans become the representatives of the alt right? as long as donald represents the breitbart radical right "base" of the GOP, there isn't any reason to vote for him.

why would we vote for someone who doesn't know anything?
Republicans have been moving further left with each passing year, and the Donald happens to be a lifelong Liberal. The fact that you're referring to them as "Alt Right" only goes to show that Democrats never knew what left and right were. The fact that they've been attacking Donald for the behavior Democrats have been exhibiting for years goes to show that they can't even tolerate themselves when the behavior is coming under a different name.
 

owebo

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
When liberals began to prey upon blacks for the second time....

image.jpeg
 

emilynghiem

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
when did republicans become the representatives of the alt right? as long as donald represents the breitbart radical right "base" of the GOP, there isn't any reason to vote for him.

why would we vote for someone who doesn't know anything?
Republicans have been moving further left with each passing year, and the Donald happens to be a lifelong Liberal. The fact that you're referring to them as "Alt Right" only goes to show that Democrats never knew what left and right were. The fact that they've been attacking Donald for the behavior Democrats have been exhibiting for years goes to show that they can't even tolerate themselves when the behavior is coming under a different name.
I love you Pumpkin Row and your posts,
but at this point I'd be willing to come out in public as a "birther" demanding to see your birth certificate, because the maturity of your
words DEFIES your age. :) Thank you, and I hope you take that as a compliment as much as I get out of your posts!
Thanks! * * * * * 1/2 + + + × 1000 ^ 1000 !!!
You go!!! Bravo! Wish you'd run for office in time for me to vote for you. You've won my vote for the next "200 years"!
Handshake, applause and bows, I hope the next generation
thinks like you, votes like you, and changes history before I leave the planet.
 
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jillian

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
when did republicans become the representatives of the alt right? as long as donald represents the breitbart radical right "base" of the GOP, there isn't any reason to vote for him.

why would we vote for someone who doesn't know anything?
Republicans have been moving further left with each passing year, and the Donald happens to be a lifelong Liberal. The fact that you're referring to them as "Alt Right" only goes to show that Democrats never knew what left and right were. The fact that they've been attacking Donald for the behavior Democrats have been exhibiting for years goes to show that they can't even tolerate themselves when the behavior is coming under a different name.
you're clueless. sociopathic donald and his alt right goons are the furthest thing from conservative

too bad if you don't like the title that accurately describes trumpeters
 

konradv

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
How is opposing Trump not "sticking it to the man"? The question you need to ask is why so many people don't recognize him for what he is, just because he takes off his tie and puts on a ball cap before he gives a stump speech. That's all for show and a way to fool people into thinking he's "one of them".
 
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Pumpkin Row

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
when did republicans become the representatives of the alt right? as long as donald represents the breitbart radical right "base" of the GOP, there isn't any reason to vote for him.

why would we vote for someone who doesn't know anything?
Republicans have been moving further left with each passing year, and the Donald happens to be a lifelong Liberal. The fact that you're referring to them as "Alt Right" only goes to show that Democrats never knew what left and right were. The fact that they've been attacking Donald for the behavior Democrats have been exhibiting for years goes to show that they can't even tolerate themselves when the behavior is coming under a different name.
you're clueless. sociopathic donald and his alt right goons are the furthest thing from conservative

too bad if you don't like the title that accurately describes trumpeters
Funny, I'm pretty sure I just said that. What's the furthest thing from Conservative? Liberal. I literally just said he's a Liberal, a lifelong Liberal. I also said that because he's a Liberal, you're attacking him for behavior that has been exhibited by your own party, simply because it's coming from someone under a different name. Do you lack reading comprehension skills or were you just too lazy to read my post? Alt-Right is a made-up term, it doesn't exist. It's just the newest meaningless insult that Liberals will abuse until it 'loses its meaning'. I made sure to use quotes, because it never had one.
 

Pumpkin Row

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I recall a time when Liberals were the free spirits that liked nothing more than challenging the establishment and "Sticking it to the man". Now that seems to have reversed and Liberals appear to have sold out and will buy whatever snake oil the Democratic leadership is selling. Now the cool people challenging the corrupt establishment are Independents and Conservatives. Who knew?
when did republicans become the representatives of the alt right? as long as donald represents the breitbart radical right "base" of the GOP, there isn't any reason to vote for him.

why would we vote for someone who doesn't know anything?
Republicans have been moving further left with each passing year, and the Donald happens to be a lifelong Liberal. The fact that you're referring to them as "Alt Right" only goes to show that Democrats never knew what left and right were. The fact that they've been attacking Donald for the behavior Democrats have been exhibiting for years goes to show that they can't even tolerate themselves when the behavior is coming under a different name.
I love you Pumpkin Row and your posts,
but at this point I'd be willing to come out in public as a "birther" demanding to see your birth certificate, because the maturity of your
words DEFIES your age. :) Thank you, and I hope you take that as a compliment as much as I get out of your posts!
Thanks! * * * * * 1/2 + + + × 1000 ^ 1000 !!!
You go!!! Bravo! Wish you'd run for office in time for me to vote for you. You've won my vote for the next "200 years"!
Handshake, applause and bows, I hope the next generation
thinks like you, votes like you, and changes history before I leave the planet.
Thank you, thank you~
It makes me happy that you think so highly of me, and I hope I can continue to live up to your praise.
Sadly, I actually can't run for president, since I wasn't born in the United States.
 

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