When 2nd Amendment Saves Lives

[2aguy]

Yes, because the wording was fucked up. It required FAMILY members to get a background check if a father gave a gun to a son. That is simply bullshit.

Very few people I know would have a problem with a background check that worked this way, you make a call to a government entity, the call is free, you give the entity the information of the person buying the gun, the entity says whether it is OK for that person to have a gun. No registration of the type of firearm.

You do that, and the law would pass. Make it even better, if a private person does that, they are PROTECTED from any civil litigation if the buyer uses the gun to commit a crime.

Then you would have almost everyone willingly doing it.

NO REGISTRATION is the key.

Ooooh......ooooh....ask bulldog if he supports that system......a system that is free, does not require gun registration, and allows anyone to do the background check....likely with a free phone app...

Ask him/her/it, and see what they say..........

 

[BULLDOG]

Wow.....you have gone from being just lazy and dishonest to being outright stupid........

See #20

 

[2aguy]

Please point out the untrue part,
View attachment 555498

Not a link to the story......please provide a link so that we can show you exactly what the NRA did instead of the spin from the rabidly anti-gun CNBC......

What was the expansion?

What was the reason for objecting to this expansion?

Did the expansion require family members to do background checks on family members?

Did the background checks include letting a friend shoot a gun at a range?

This is the problem with background checks...

1) you want them just so you can then demand gun registration...which you need to ban and confiscate guns...

2).....one type of expansion Bill that we will not accept...



3)
Textual analysis of HR8, bill to "To require a background check for every firearm sale"

Summary

HR8 requires that loans, gifts, and sales of firearms be processed by a gun store. The same fees, paperwork, and permanent record-keeping apply as to buying a new gun from the store.
If you loan a gun to a friend without going to the gun store, the penalty is the same as for knowingly selling a gun to a convicted violent felon.

Likewise, when the friend returns the gun, another trip to the gun store is necessary, upon pain of felony.

A clever trick in HR8 effectively bans handguns for persons 18-to20.

The bill has some narrow exemptions. The minuscule exemption for self-defense does not cover stalking victims. None of the exemptions cover farming and ranching, sharing guns on almost all public and private lands, or storing guns with friends while on vacation. The limited exemption for family excludes first cousins and in-laws.
And this......they love this...

The bill authorizes unlimited fees to be imposed by
regulation.
-----
The narrowness of the self-defense exemption endangers domestic violence victims. For example, a former domestic partner threatens a woman and her children. An attack might come in the next hour, or the next month, or never. The victim and her children cannot know. Because the attack is uncertain—and is certainly not "immediate"—the woman cannot borrow a handgun from a neighbor for her defense. Many domestic violence victims do not have several hundred spare dollars so that they can buy their own gun. Sometimes, threats are manifested at night, when gun stores are not open.
-------

HR8 requires almost all firearms sales and loans to be conducted by a federally-licensed dealer. Because federal law prohibits licensed dealers from transferring handguns to persons under 21 years, HR8 prevents young adults from acquiring handguns. This is a clever way to enact a handgun ban indirectly.

HR8 would prohibit a 20-year-old woman who lives on her own from acquiring a handgun for self-defense in her home, such as by buying it from a relative or borrowing it from a friend.
-----

Exorbitant fees may be imposed by regulation

"(3)(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Attorney General may implement this sub-section with regulations."

"(D) Regulations promulgated under this paragraph may not include any provision placing a cap on the fee licensees may charge to facilitate transfers in accordance with paragraph (1)."

Regulators may set a minimum fee, but not "a cap on a fee." The Attorney General is allowed to require that every gun store charge a fee of $30, $50, $150, or more. Even a $20 fee can be a hard burden to a poor person.

------
Family members

You can make a "a loan or bona fide gift" to some family members. In-laws and cousins are excluded.

The family exemption vanishes if one family member pays the other in any way. If a brother trades an extra shotgun to his sister in exchange for her extra television, both of them have to go to a gun store. Their exchange will have all the fees and paperwork as if she were buying a gun from the store.

3) More.....

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory. For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge. The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number. Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation. Consider New York City. In 1967, violent crime in the city was out of control. So the City Council and Mayor John Lindsay required registration of all long guns. The criminals, obviously, did not comply. Thanks to the 1911 Sullivan Act, New York City already had established registration lists for handgun owners.

Then, in 1991, the City Council decided that many lawfully registered firearms were now illegal “assault weapons.” The New York Police Department used the registration lists to ensure that the guns were either surrendered to the government or moved out of the city. When he was mayor of New York City, Bloomberg did the same, after the “assault weapon” law was expanded to cover any rifle or shotgun with an ammunition capacity greater than five rounds.

In Australia and Great Britain—which are often cited as models for the U.S. to follow—registration lists were used for gun confiscation. In Great Britain, this included all handguns; in Australia, handguns over .38 caliber. Both countries banned all semi-automatic or pump-action long guns.

Most American jurisdictions don’t have a comprehensive gun registration system. But even if your state legislature has outlawed gun registration, firearm stores must keep records. Those records could be harvested for future confiscations. Under the Bloomberg system, the store’s list would include not just the guns that the store actually sold, but all the guns (and their owners) that the store processed, for friends or relatives borrowing guns.


When you actually include detail to what you claim...then you will be an honest participant in this discussion..until then, you are nothing more than a vile, anti-gun extremist....

 

[Man of Ethics]

Fuck criminals. If they attack me or mine, they die.

Real Life is different from Action Movies. In Real Life confronting a violent criminal is dangerous.

 

[BULLDOG]

Yeah, you didn't bother to give the reason why the NRA refused to back that legislation. They are publicly in support of background checks that have no registration component. DUUUUR

As I've always said, background checks currently have no registration component. No reason why they should.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Employee who killed gunman likely saved lives, police say​

...
SUPERIOR, Neb. (AP) — An employee who returned fire after a gunman killed two people at a Nebraska grain elevator likely prevented more deaths, a Nebraska State Patrol official said Friday.

The employee, who was not named, retrieved a weapon and shot Max Hoskinson, 61, after Hoskinson began shooting at the Agrex Elevator in Superior, Nebraska, on Thursday. Hoskinson, of Superior, was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Authorities said Hoskinson had been fired earlier Thursday and returned that afternoon with a gun and began shooting in an office area.
...

Employee who killed gunman likely saved lives, police say

Except the Second Amendment made the gunman in the first place.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Only about 1.3% of crimes are met with gun self-defense.

For every justifiable homicide there are 30 criminal homicides and 60 criminal suicides.

 

[westwall]

Real Life is different from Action Movies. In Real Life confronting a violent criminal is dangerous.

Indeed it is, you should experience the real world instead of your fantasy life.

 

[2aguy]

Real Life is different from Action Movies. In Real Life confronting a violent criminal is dangerous.

Yep.......being the victim of a violent criminal with no means to defend yourself is even more dangerous...since you are completely at their mercy if they decide to rape, torture and murder you..............without a gun....they have control over you....

But not these women...

Tell us...is it better to you that the following women used guns to save their lives...or is it better for you that they are raped, tortured and murdered?

Please be brave and answer the questions...

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.

There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.

Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

 

[westwall]

Except the Second Amendment made the gunman in the first place.

Nope. Tools are simply tools. They are no better or worse than the PERSON that uses them.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Indeed it is, you should experience the real world instead of your fantasy life.

Most people spend a lot of time watching Action Movies. All of us have seen thousands of villains killed in self defense.

But in Real Life, guns are used for Criminal Homicide and Criminal Suicide.

 

[2aguy]

Only about 1.3% of crimes are met with gun self-defense.

For every justifiable homicide there are 30 criminal homicides and 60 criminal suicides.

Number of times a year civilians use their legal guns to stop rapes, beatings, stabbings, robberies, and murders?

1.2 million according to the Centers for Disease Control.

1.5 million according to the Department of Justice.

1.67 million according to the 2020 Firearm Survey.

 

[2aguy]

Most people spend a lot of time watching Action Movies. All of us have seen thousands of villains killed in self defense.

But in Real Life, guns are used for Criminal Homicide and Criminal Suicide.

Number of times a year civilians use their legal guns to stop rapes, beatings, stabbings, robberies, and murders?

1.2 million according to the Centers for Disease Control.

1.5 million according to the Department of Justice.

1.67 million according to the 2020 Firearm Survey.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Number of times a year civilians use their legal guns to stop rapes, beatings, stabbings, robberies, and murders?

1.2 million according to the Centers for Disease Control.

1.5 million according to the Department of Justice.

1.67 million according to the 2020 Firearm Survey.

There are not that many severe crimes each year in USA. These numbers seem vastly exaggerated.

 

[BULLDOG]

Yeah, you didn't bother to give the reason why the NRA refused to back that legislation. They are publicly in support of background checks that have no registration component. DUUUUR

NRA spent 1.6 million fighting any background checks for individuals. If I am wrong, then point to any background check bill or proposal they support concerning individual sales.

 

[2aguy]

As I've always said, background checks currently have no registration component. No reason why they should.

Universal Background Checks would require gun registration....you can't tell if a background check was actually done without knowing who owns the gun and who the gun is transferred to...

So you can play the game of denying you want gun registration...but the sole purpose of universal background checks is to later demand gun registration.

 

[2aguy]

There are not that many severe crimes each year in USA. These numbers seem vastly exaggerated.

Tell that to the 18 studies that researched them....

 

[BULLDOG]

Fuck criminals. If they attack me or mine, they die. Assholes, like you, protect criminals so they harm hundreds of people before they are caught. And, once again, your stats are bullshit. Proven false long, long ago.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Tell that to the 18 studies that researched them....

The numbers are very uncertain. Here.

The report Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violenceexternal icon indicates a range of 60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year.

 

[2aguy]

NRA spent 1.6 million fighting any background checks for individuals. If I am wrong, then point to any background check bill or proposal they support concerning individual sales.

Again......you ignore what they were against...and why......you are a dishonest hack...

For example.......

Textual analysis of HR8, bill to "To require a background check for every firearm sale"

Summary

HR8 requires that loans, gifts, and sales of firearms be processed by a gun store. The same fees, paperwork, and permanent record-keeping apply as to buying a new gun from the store.
If you loan a gun to a friend without going to the gun store, the penalty is the same as for knowingly selling a gun to a convicted violent felon.

Likewise, when the friend returns the gun, another trip to the gun store is necessary, upon pain of felony.

A clever trick in HR8 effectively bans handguns for persons 18-to20.

The bill has some narrow exemptions. The minuscule exemption for self-defense does not cover stalking victims. None of the exemptions cover farming and ranching, sharing guns on almost all public and private lands, or storing guns with friends while on vacation. The limited exemption for family excludes first cousins and in-laws.
And this......they love this...

The bill authorizes unlimited fees to be imposed by
regulation.
-----
The narrowness of the self-defense exemption endangers domestic violence victims. For example, a former domestic partner threatens a woman and her children. An attack might come in the next hour, or the next month, or never. The victim and her children cannot know. Because the attack is uncertain—and is certainly not "immediate"—the woman cannot borrow a handgun from a neighbor for her defense. Many domestic violence victims do not have several hundred spare dollars so that they can buy their own gun. Sometimes, threats are manifested at night, when gun stores are not open.
-------

HR8 requires almost all firearms sales and loans to be conducted by a federally-licensed dealer. Because federal law prohibits licensed dealers from transferring handguns to persons under 21 years, HR8 prevents young adults from acquiring handguns. This is a clever way to enact a handgun ban indirectly.

HR8 would prohibit a 20-year-old woman who lives on her own from acquiring a handgun for self-defense in her home, such as by buying it from a relative or borrowing it from a friend.
-----

Exorbitant fees may be imposed by regulation

"(3)(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Attorney General may implement this sub-section with regulations."

"(D) Regulations promulgated under this paragraph may not include any provision placing a cap on the fee licensees may charge to facilitate transfers in accordance with paragraph (1)."

Regulators may set a minimum fee, but not "a cap on a fee." The Attorney General is allowed to require that every gun store charge a fee of $30, $50, $150, or more. Even a $20 fee can be a hard burden to a poor person.

------
Family members

You can make a "a loan or bona fide gift" to some family members. In-laws and cousins are excluded.

The family exemption vanishes if one family member pays the other in any way. If a brother trades an extra shotgun to his sister in exchange for her extra television, both of them have to go to a gun store. Their exchange will have all the fees and paperwork as if she were buying a gun from the store.

Sell your game to biden voters....they are stupid enough to believe you...