What The Hell Do The Brits Know?

[Annie]

Yeah, links:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/web...etro_Police_Chief_Issues_Ominous_Warning&only

Report: UK Metro Police Chief Issues Ominous Warning

Iain Dale is justifiably concerned about a remark made by the UK Metropolitan Police Commissioner Ian Blair in a supposedly private meeting (the Brits have leakers too), suggesting that “a truly appalling act of terror” might lead the British government to consider “internment:” EXCLUSIVE: Sir Ian Blair Says New Terror Attack Could Lead to Internment. (Hat tip: Luigi.)

Last week, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner addressed the Reform Club Media Group. Nothing like the ‘establishment’ sticking together is there? The meeting was conducted under Chatham House rules, which mean that no one attending is supposed to divulge what is said. But one person present was so appalled at Sir Ian’s attitude and authoritarian stance that he has revealed to me an alarming - and seemingly off the cuff - remark made by Sir Ian at the event.

Sir Ian said the British people should ‘brace themselves for a truly appalling act of terror’. He said that following this act of barbarism ‘people would be talking quite openly about internment’, giving the impression that he would be leading the pro-internment lobby. No doubt he will find a willing supplicant in the tougher than tough Home Secretary John Reid.

My informant thought at first that it really was a throwaway remark but on reflection felt that it couldn’t have been made by accident. Well, either that or the Reform Club claret had loosened his tongue.

I haven’t even bothered to ring the Met Press Office because I know what they will say. But if this really is the stance Sir Ian is taking then we should be even more worried about our civil liberties than we already are. I’m now even more convinced that the Conservative stance against 90 days detention was right.​

There are definitely civil liberties concerns in play; internment is very serious stuff, and we should all be concerned when it’s mentioned by government officials. But Sir Ian’s comment about the British public needing to brace themselves for “a truly appalling act of terror” suggests some terrible inside knowledge.
6:06 PM PDT

 

[Gunny]

Yeah, links:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/web...etro_Police_Chief_Issues_Ominous_Warning&only

I find Blair's comment pretty logical, and have said the same things for a couple of years when the libs start whining about the Patriot Act. Wait until we take another major terror hit on US soil and the Patriot Act will look like tea party rules. Whether or not we go as far as internment, I don't know, but I DO foresee cutting out a lot of BS, opting for practical but unpolitically correct solutions.

 

[1549]

I find Blair's comment pretty logical, and have said the same things for a couple of years when the libs start whining about the Patriot Act. Wait until we take another major terror hit on US soil and the Patriot Act will look like tea party rules. Whether or not we go as far as internment, I don't know, but I DO foresee cutting out a lot of BS, opting for practical but unpolitically correct solutions.

So if there is another act of terrorism committed by a white male (a la McVeigh), internment of whites would not be too far off-base?

 

[USMCDevilDog]

So if there is another act of terrorism committed by a white male (a la McVeigh), internment of whites would not be too far off-base?

Muslim terrorists are apart of a bigger threat, a threat that has more dangerous possiblities then one "white man" with a bomb. The difference between a Muslim Terrorist and suicidal bombings for their "orginization" and a white crazy man who thinks everything is the gov'ts fault and who only seems to come around every 10 or so years is very large. It's not the same, don't try to make a point that's total bs.

 

[CSM]

So if there is another act of terrorism committed by a white male (a la McVeigh), internment of whites would not be too far off-base?

Sure, just as soon as the number of terrorist bombings perpetrated by "white males" become as frequent and as damaging as those committed by Muslims.

 

[1549]

Muslim terrorists are apart of a bigger threat, a threat that has more dangerous possiblities then one "white man" with a bomb. The difference between a Muslim Terrorist and suicidal bombings for their "orginization" and a white crazy man who thinks everything is the gov'ts fault and who only seems to come around every 10 or so years is very large. It's not the same, don't try to make a point that's total bs.

Is it total bs? At this point, our muslim citizens have behaved just as well as white citizens. The only muslim U.S. citizen to participate in terror attacks was during the 1993 WTC bombing. Should one bad apple that came around 13 years ago ruin life for a population of over 3 million? If you think so, then perhaps one bad apple should ruin it for white citizens.

Or perhaps, white males should not be allowed to go school with others. White youths tend to shoot classmates. Young white males are a danger to all and should be kept away from non-whites and even white girls. Intern the white males and their plot for gothic control of the world!

Sure, just as soon as the number of terrorist bombings perpetrated by "white males" become as frequent and as damaging as those committed by Muslims.

See above.

 

[CSM]

Is it total bs? At this point, our muslim citizens have behaved just as well as white citizens. The only muslim U.S. citizen to participate in terror attacks was during the 1993 WTC bombing. Should one bad apple that came around 13 years ago ruin life for a population of over 3 million? If you think so, then perhaps one bad apple should ruin it for white citizens.

Or perhaps, white males should not be allowed to go school with others. White youths tend to shoot classmates. Young white males are a danger to all and should be kept away from non-whites and even white girls. Intern the white males and their plot for gothic control of the world!



See above.

Not too much exaggeration eh? Makes your point (kind of). Of course all other races are innocent and only white males are the problem. Makes sense to me...hell, lets just put all the white folks in internment camps and let them starve...oh wait that technique has been tried.

What else ya got?

Don't get me wrong, I do not advocate branding an entire race or religion, but it is awful hard to stand up for moderate Muslims who wont stand up for themselves.

 

[1549]

Not too much exaggeration eh? Makes your point (kind of). Of course all other races are innocent and only white males are the problem. Makes sense to me...hell, lets just put all the white folks in internment camps and let them starve...oh wait that technique has been tried.

What else ya got?

My point is that all races are the problem. Every race has its fair share of "black sheep". To judge an entire group of millions based on the actions of a few is just plain dumb. That is why I brought up whites. It makes little sense to intern whites, but the idea is as justifiable as intenment of muslims--and that means it is barely justifiable at all.

Don't get me wrong, I do not advocate branding an entire race or religion, but it is awful hard to stand up for moderate Muslims who wont stand up for themselves.

They are, I just do not think you have noticed. A few weeks ago there was a discussion session for Muslim Americans here at Rutgers. The agenda included discussing misconceptions about the muslim community, as well as thoughts about how global relations between arabic muslims and the west can be improved.

 

[Emmett]

That's the answer, we should intern EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, let's see. Noone under 8 years of age has ever been confirmed to have perpretrated a terrorist activity so they can stay. Noone over 83 has either so we'll just intern everyone between 9 and 83 years old and the preoblem will be solved.

There you go, if you guys need any more help solving these unchallanging problems, please feel to contact me at any time!

 

[Rico]

My point is that all races are the problem. Every race has its fair share of "black sheep". To judge an entire group of millions based on the actions of a few is just plain dumb. That is why I brought up whites. It makes little sense to intern whites, but the idea is as justifiable as intenment of muslims--and that means it is barely justifiable at all.



They are, I just do not think you have noticed. A few weeks ago there was a discussion session for Muslim Americans here at Rutgers. The agenda included discussing misconceptions about the muslim community, as well as thoughts about how global relations between arabic muslims and the west can be improved.

Every "race" has its share of black sheep. Yeah I'll buy that. But it is not a "race" alone here that's the problem. It's arab muslims. Oops did I offend your liberal sensibilities with the truth? Sorry.

Make war; obtain peace through strength.

 

[Gunny]

So if there is another act of terrorism committed by a white male (a la McVeigh), internment of whites would not be too far off-base?

Enter BR-549 with a completely absurd and irrelevant argument. Grow up, pinhead.

 

[1549]

Every "race" has its share of black sheep. Yeah I'll buy that. But it is not a "race" alone here that's the problem. It's arab muslims. Oops did I offend your liberal sensibilities with the truth? Sorry.

Make war; obtain peace through strength.

My argument was in the context of internment in the United States. I am only referring to muslims that are U.S. citizens.--those that would be interned. That group has a solid track record in the United States.

Your truth does not offend me, it is just skewed. The problem is not arab muslims. The root causes of violence in the middle east: enormous wealth disparity, mass poverty, bitterness over the fall of their empire, arbitrary nation boundaries set by colonial empires.

From there, other problems arise. This strife creates the perfect platform for manipulators and extremists. They can penetrate all rungs of society and call out nations like the United States as scapegoats.

Work on the initial root causes, the problems can be at least alleviated. Go to war with the middle east and only more chaos is created; the problems are exacerbated.

Throw christians, jews, buddhists, or hindus in similar conditions for a few generations and the results will be similar. It is human nature.

 

[1549]

Enter BR-549 with a completely absurd and irrelevant argument. Grow up, pinhead.

Absurd and irrelevant? How can you argue for internment of muslim americans when white americans have committed the same number of offenses? 1993 WTC bombing...1995 Ok. city bombing.

 

[Hobbit]

Absurd and irrelevant? How can you argue for internment of muslim americans when white americans have committed the same number of offenses? 1993 WTC bombing...1995 Ok. city bombing.

2001 WTC attacks, Embassy bombings, U.S.S. Cole, virtually every U.S. airline hijacking in the past 30-50 years, an attempted attack on the Space Needle, an attempted attack on the Sears Tower, an attempted attack on the Holland Tunnel, an attempt to blow up several airplanes, the London and Madrid subway bombings, the attempt by the shoe bomber, every U.S. citizen ever abducted for the purpose of execution, the guy who walked into a Jewish organization shooting, and the guy who drove around a residential area playing 'speed bump.' I'm also not seeing a whole lot of non-Muslim white males openly advocating the destruction of the United States through terrorist activity nor am I seeing non-Arab, non-Muslim U.S. citizens joining Al-Qaeda. Given the proportion of white to Arab men in the United States, the equivalency you're trying to make is like equating a leaky faucet to a broken dam.

 

[Annie]

Absurd and irrelevant? How can you argue for internment of muslim americans when white americans have committed the same number of offenses? 1993 WTC bombing...1995 Ok. city bombing.

WTC was an al queda job, didn't you know that?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/26/newsid_2516000/2516469.stm

1993: World Trade Center bomb terrorises New York
A suspected car bomb has exploded underneath the World Trade Center in New York killing at least five people and injuring scores more.

The bombing has shocked America which had seemed immune from acts of terrorism that have plagued other parts of the world.

An emotional Mario Cuomo, New York's state governor, told journalists: "We all have that feeling of being violated. No foreign people or force has ever done this to us. Until now we were invulnerable."


It felt like an airplane hit the building

Bruce Pomper, eyewitness
The immense blast happened at 1218 local time in the Secret Service's section of the car park underneath and between what are New York's tallest buildings.

It left a gaping hole in the wall above the Path underground station. Most of those who died are believed to have been crushed by the station ceiling.

It ripped through three floors of concrete, scattering ash and debris and set off a fire that sent choking smoke and flames up through one of the 110-story "Twin Towers".

Total pandemonium

Thousands of office workers were trapped as smoke billowed up through the buildings.

With no working lifts or lighting there was total pandemonium.

People did not know whether to stay in their offices or brave the journey down via the smoke-filled stairwells.

"It felt like an airplane hit the building," said Bruce Pomper, a 34-year-old broker.

Desperate for air, some people smashed windows with office furniture.

Hundreds eventually poured out of the building gasping for air and covered in soot.

Rescue workers struggled to get oxygen to those in the upper floors. About 100,000 people work in and visit the 1,700ft towers every day - the blast happened at their busiest time.

Several people have called New York's police claiming they were behind the attack but authorities are keeping an open mind about possible suspects.


In Context
In May 1994, four men - Mohammed Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Mahmud Abouhalima and Ahmad Ajaj - were sentenced to life for bombing the World Trade Center, which killed six people and injured 100.

In October 1995 Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, a blind cleric who preached at mosques in Brooklyn and Jersey City, was sentenced to life for masterminding the bombing,.

He was also found guilty of the murder of extremist Rabbi Meir Kahane and a scheme to assassinate Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak during a trip to New York in 1993.

The bombing of the World Trade Center has been totally eclipsed by the events of 11 September 2001 which saw thousands killed, the collapse of both Twin Towers and an all-out "war on terror" declared by the Western world.

Rahman's organisation, the Islamic Group, is believed to have links to Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, accused of carrying out the 11 September attacks.

 

[CSM]

My argument was in the context of internment in the United States. I am only referring to muslims that are U.S. citizens.--those that would be interned. That group has a solid track record in the United States.

Fair enough, but I do not seem them making much noise condemning their extremist cousins. A local seminar at Rutgers is not on the same scale of the propaganda we see daily coming from MUSLIM extremists in mosques all over the world (including inside the US). Also, if you read the original article carefully, it's the Brits, not the US proposing internment...some on this board think its a good idea but no government official (that I know of) has called for such actions.

Your truth does not offend me, it is just skewed. The problem is not arab muslims. Totally disagree, the problem is indeed Arab Muslims; at least extreme Muslims and the moderates who condone their actions by their silence. The root causes of violence in the middle east: enormous wealth disparity, mass poverty, bitterness over the fall of their empire, arbitrary nation boundaries set by colonial empires.

If the oil rich sheiks, aytollahs and other Arab leaders would spend their money on economic development instead of trying to get nukes and who knows what else, there might not be so much poverty and "wealth disparity". Bitterness over the fall of their empire is something they will just have to get over and the same goes for national boundaries. That is, unless you are proposing ANOTHER realignment of boundaries that will satisfy no one.

From there, other problems arise. This strife creates the perfect platform for manipulators and extremists. They can penetrate all rungs of society and call out nations like the United States as scapegoats.

That is indeed what is happening. What do you propose as a solution?

Work on the initial root causes, the problems can be at least alleviated. How? Should the US bypass the dictators/royal families/religious sects etc and tryt to go directly to the "poor" citizens with financial and other types of aid? Without the cooperation of the leadership in situ, nothing will get "alleviated". Go to war with the middle east and only more chaos is created; the problems are exacerbated. Well, it was that way without going to war in the ME. Maybe by gaining a strategic foothold there militarily will give the West a bit of leverage. The ME declared war on the US long before the state of Israel was created and the West ignored it, taking little or no action.


Throw christians, jews, buddhists, or hindus in similar conditions for a few generations and the results will be similar. It is human nature. Maybe, but every culture on the planet has been in that position for some period in history. The problem is (in this particular case) that the Muslims want everyone else ELIMINATED either through conversion or killing them. There is no middle ground with them.

There would probably be a possibility of some rational compromise to resolve the issue if it were not for the fact that the extremist Muslim fanatics are more than steadfast in their demand that the rest of the world convert to Islam or die. They are not saying "We are poor, give us money!" or "We are ignorant, educate us!". They are saying "We are Muslim and you MUST be too or we will kill you!"

 

[1549]

2001 WTC attacks, Embassy bombings, U.S.S. Cole, virtually every U.S. airline hijacking in the past 30-50 years, an attempted attack on the Space Needle, an attempted attack on the Sears Tower, an attempted attack on the Holland Tunnel, an attempt to blow up several airplanes, the London and Madrid subway bombings, the attempt by the shoe bomber, every U.S. citizen ever abducted for the purpose of execution, the guy who walked into a Jewish organization shooting, and the guy who drove around a residential area playing 'speed bump.' I'm also not seeing a whole lot of non-Muslim white males openly advocating the destruction of the United States through terrorist activity nor am I seeing non-Arab, non-Muslim U.S. citizens joining Al-Qaeda. Given the proportion of white to Arab men in the United States, the equivalency you're trying to make is like equating a leaky faucet to a broken dam.

Internment would not have stopped any of the attacks you just referred to (except for some members of the 1993 attack). They were perpetrated by arab muslims. The exception is the Sears Tower attack, while some of these men were citizens, they were Haitian. Several were even thought to be catholic by their family members. These people would not have been interned.

WTC was an al queda job, didn't you know that?

Yes, that is why I said it is the only terrorist attack involving muslims that are U.S. citizens.

It is also why the score between muslims that would have been interned and whites is an even: 1-1.

You can not intern muslims that are not living in the U.S. as citizens. Internment would not have stopped 9/11 or any of the other attacks hobbit referred to.

There would probably be a possibility of some rational compromise to resolve the issue if it were not for the fact that the extremist Muslim fanatics are more than steadfast in their demand that the rest of the world convert to Islam or die. They are not saying "We are poor, give us money!" or "We are ignorant, educate us!". They are saying "We are Muslim and you MUST be too or we will kill you!"

I suppose no one has the answers. If we can identify that war is not going to help this region, perhaps the better minds in this country can start looking toward a solution that may actually be successful.

 

[trobinett]

Interment is NOT the answer to ANYTHING, except maybe sanity.

 

[CSM]

...

I suppose no one has the answers. If we can identify that war is not going to help this region, perhaps the better minds in this country can start looking toward a solution that may actually be successful.

What if we identify that war IS going to help this region? It is obvious that negotiation and appeasement have not worked. So, ruling out those three aforementioned options, what do YOU recommend (presumptious of me to assume you posses one of those "better minds" but, what the hell, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt).

 

[trobinett]

What if we identify that war IS going to help this region? It is obvious that negotiation and appeasement have not worked. So, ruling out those three aforementioned options, what do YOU recommend (presumptious of me to assume you posses one of those "better minds" but, what the hell, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt).

Wrong assumption Command Sargent Major, and doubt I would.