What Makes Socialism So Attractive?

[PoliticalChic]

Especially to the young?

Why are the young so enamored with Socialism/Communism/Liberalism?
It may not be what seems to be the answer, free stuff.

The Answer may be something inherent to the human condition: a desire to be unique, and independent, and to make your own rules, and not have to answer to anyone else.



1.When Albert Camus wrote “The Rebel,” he put his finger on an aspect of human nature that most of us have, more so as youth, but, still, throughout our lives. We yearn to stand out, to be different, …we see it when the prettiest girl runs off with the ‘bad boy,’ or when the wild haired radical is the one everyone is talking about. True, family, and the desire for success often smooths the edges off, moderates how ‘different’ one chooses to be, and sometimes, later on, when we’ve given up most of that rebellion, we might come to resent those who actually carry it off…..but in our youth, we have it.

It’s all about the degree and desire to rebel.

2. Freud claimed he could document and explain that need to rebel, relating it to a biological phenomenon…. “The Rebel Instinct: How Each Generation's Need To Out-Rebel The Previous Generation Is Pushing Society To Wild Extremes” The Rebel Instinct: How Each Generation's Need To Out-Rebel The Previous Generation Is Pushing Society To Wild Extremes

But whether it is psychological or biological…….it appears, most significantly, to be political.




3. A tip of the hat to Freud: there is no disputing the desire to stop taking orders from parents. OK. But it grows, in many, to the desire to not have to show respect, take orders from, or to mirror the style and tradition of an older, more successful generation. Perhaps the claim that socialists/communists are all about greed, to take from the successful without the work that went into that success...’You didn’t build that!’ …isn’t just to get the material things…


........it’s the psychological reward of rebellion.


Perhaps the rebel wants to gain that success by a different path, one that doesn’t require looking like, sounding like, and behaving like, our elders, that explains the 50% of Democrats who are socialists. Enter Bernie Sanders, stage Left.




Now…..get this, the fly in their ointment:

The problem for those rebels is that they have given up the intellect and the education that reveals what Socialism, Communism, Progressivism produces for societies, always:

....serfs, slaves….or corpses.

 

[bluzman61]

Especially to the young?

Why are the young so enamored with Socialism/Communism/Liberalism?
It may not be what seems to be the answer, free stuff.

The Answer may be something inherent to the human condition: a desire to be unique, and independent, and to make your own rules, and not have to answer to anyone else.



1.When Albert Camus wrote “The Rebel,” he put his finger on an aspect of human nature that most of us have, more so as youth, but, still, throughout our lives. We yearn to stand out, to be different, …we see it when the prettiest girl runs off with the ‘bad boy,’ or when the wild haired radical is the one everyone is talking about. True, family, and the desire for success often smooths the edges off, moderates how ‘different’ one chooses to be, and sometimes, later on, when we’ve given up most of that rebellion, we might come to resent those who actually carry it off…..but in our youth, we have it.

It’s all about the degree and desire to rebel.

2. Freud claimed he could document and explain that need to rebel, relating it to a biological phenomenon…. “The Rebel Instinct: How Each Generation's Need To Out-Rebel The Previous Generation Is Pushing Society To Wild Extremes” The Rebel Instinct: How Each Generation's Need To Out-Rebel The Previous Generation Is Pushing Society To Wild Extremes

But whether it is psychological or biological…….it appears, most significantly, to be political.




3. A tip of the hat to Freud: there is no disputing the desire to stop taking orders from parents. OK. But it grows, in many, to the desire to not have to show respect, take orders from, or to mirror the style and tradition of an older, more successful generation. Perhaps the claim that socialists/communists are all about greed, to take from the successful without the work that went into that success...’You didn’t build that!’ …isn’t just to get the material things…


........it’s the psychological reward of rebellion.


Perhaps the rebel wants to gain that success by a different path, one that doesn’t require looking like, sounding like, and behaving like, our elders, that explains the 50% of Democrats who are socialists. Enter Bernie Sanders, stage Left.




Now…..get this, the fly in their ointment:

The problem for those rebels is that they have given up the intellect and the education that reveals what Socialism, Communism, Progressivism produces for societies, always:

....serfs, slaves….or corpses.

Free shit. They love getting stuff they don't have to work for.

 

[shockedcanadian]

For regular citizens? Nothing

For government? Immense, unchecked, unaccountable power.

 

[kyzr]

The problem as the "socialists" see it is income inequality.
Why should Bloomberg have $62b and they are in debt and are working for slave wages?
Why should the US devolve toward a few hundred "oligarch billionaires" and the rest of us "peons"?
We must band together to set things right, we must tax the rich and distribute the income more fairly.
IMHO the Republicans can't keep winning elections, so what happens when the democrats eventually win?

 

[Gdjjr]

I'd like to see, in their own words, exactly what they think socialism is before I'd render any conclusion.

 

[Gdjjr]

We must band together to set things right, we must tax the rich and distribute the income more fairly.

That mind set, which may be pretty accurate, flies in the face of the being different or unique. On its surface it may appear that way, but when it comes down to the nut cutting it's a homogenous grouping, which by definition renders unique invalid.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The problem as the "socialists" see it is income inequality.
Why should Bloomberg have $62b and they are in debt and are working for slave wages?
Why should the US devolve toward a few hundred "oligarch billionaires" and the rest of us "peons"?
We must band together to set things right, we must tax the rich and distribute the income more fairly.
IMHO the Republicans can't keep winning elections, so what happens when the democrats eventually win?

Certainly, what you say is true, and the most commonly attributed of socialism...

Dennis Prager has written

1. The Left has been far more interested in fighting material inequality than tyranny, which is why Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, etc., tend to have the support of Leftists around the world.
2. The Left is less interested in creating wealth than in distributing it.

But there is more....there is need to claim that they are different from others who may be able to point to more accomplishments.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'd like to see, in their own words, exactly what they think socialism is before I'd render any conclusion.

In this very thread, I'm gonna provide a first hand account of a society that embraced socialism/communism.

 

[DGS49]

Here's the thing: Until you have had the experience of working to support yourself and actually seeing how much of your hard-earned money goes out in taxes, you lack the "wisdom" to understand why Socialism is evil. And it is evil. It is theft. Taking money from one group of people who have done nothing wrong, and giving it to others who have done nothing to earn it. That is definitional theft.

A large percentage of Bernie's supporters either have not had that experience, or have had the experience generally, but in a protected environment - government employment, foundation employment, employment in the Arts, and so on.

As I have mentioned repeatedly in this space, if the vote were limited to those who have worked Real Jobs in the Real World, and who have paid at least a nominal amount in FIT for a few years, the entire Democrat party could pack up its tent and leave town, and nobody would even notice.

 

[Gdjjr]

In this very thread, I'm gonna provide a first hand account of a society that embraced socialism/communism.

I still want to see those accused own words - before I render any conclusion.

 

[Gdjjr]

the entire Democrat party could pack up its tent and leave town, and nobody would even notice.

What do Republicans say about Republicans not abolishing the theft?

 

[Brain357]

Because our capitalism is broken. Workers have few rights. We have many near monopolies, wage collusion, non compete agreements... the government is bought by corporations, look at all the money in politics...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Here's the thing: Until you have had the experience of working to support yourself and actually seeing how much of your hard-earned money goes out in taxes, you lack the "wisdom" to understand why Socialism is evil. And it is evil. It is theft. Taking money from one group of people who have done nothing wrong, and giving it to others who have done nothing to earn it. That is definitional theft.

A large percentage of Bernie's supporters either have not had that experience, or have had the experience generally, but in a protected environment - government employment, foundation employment, employment in the Arts, and so on.

As I have mentioned repeatedly in this space, if the vote were limited to those who have worked Real Jobs in the Real World, and who have paid at least a nominal amount in FIT for a few years, the entire Democrat party could pack up its tent and leave town, and nobody would even notice.

I'm sure you saw the word 'young' in both of the first two lines of the OP>
Especially to the young?
Why are the young so enamored with Socialism/Communism/Liberalism?


There's an old bon mot about taxes that applies to socialism, as well:

The best way to teach your kids about either, is to eat half their ice cream.

 

[Rigby5]

Especially to the young?

Why are the young so enamored with Socialism/Communism/Liberalism?
It may not be what seems to be the answer, free stuff.

The Answer may be something inherent to the human condition: a desire to be unique, and independent, and to make your own rules, and not have to answer to anyone else.



1.When Albert Camus wrote “The Rebel,” he put his finger on an aspect of human nature that most of us have, more so as youth, but, still, throughout our lives. We yearn to stand out, to be different, …we see it when the prettiest girl runs off with the ‘bad boy,’ or when the wild haired radical is the one everyone is talking about. True, family, and the desire for success often smooths the edges off, moderates how ‘different’ one chooses to be, and sometimes, later on, when we’ve given up most of that rebellion, we might come to resent those who actually carry it off…..but in our youth, we have it.

It’s all about the degree and desire to rebel.

2. Freud claimed he could document and explain that need to rebel, relating it to a biological phenomenon…. “The Rebel Instinct: How Each Generation's Need To Out-Rebel The Previous Generation Is Pushing Society To Wild Extremes” The Rebel Instinct: How Each Generation's Need To Out-Rebel The Previous Generation Is Pushing Society To Wild Extremes

But whether it is psychological or biological…….it appears, most significantly, to be political.




3. A tip of the hat to Freud: there is no disputing the desire to stop taking orders from parents. OK. But it grows, in many, to the desire to not have to show respect, take orders from, or to mirror the style and tradition of an older, more successful generation. Perhaps the claim that socialists/communists are all about greed, to take from the successful without the work that went into that success...’You didn’t build that!’ …isn’t just to get the material things…


........it’s the psychological reward of rebellion.


Perhaps the rebel wants to gain that success by a different path, one that doesn’t require looking like, sounding like, and behaving like, our elders, that explains the 50% of Democrats who are socialists. Enter Bernie Sanders, stage Left.




Now…..get this, the fly in their ointment:

The problem for those rebels is that they have given up the intellect and the education that reveals what Socialism, Communism, Progressivism produces for societies, always:

....serfs, slaves….or corpses.

Nonsense.
The ONLY way to have serfs, slaves, or corpses with with a system that is for profit, and that is capitalism.
Socialism is always without a personal profit motive, so has no means of becoming corrupt.
Socialism means collaborative and communal planning and profit sharing, which can only happen with a democracy.
All good government is always socialist, like public roads, schools, fire fighting, defense, etc.
All bad government is always capitalist, like monarchies, dictators, feudal barons, etc.

 

[Rigby5]

I'd like to see, in their own words, exactly what they think socialism is before I'd render any conclusion.

In this very thread, I'm gonna provide a first hand account of a society that embraced socialism/communism.

That is easy, because obviously the US government it entirely socialist already, and the only thing missing is health care.
Almost all government are always socialist, in that they are not involved in anything for profit.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Because our capitalism is broken. Workers have few rights. We have many near monopolies, wage collusion, non compete agreements... the government is bought by corporations, look at all the money in politics...

There has never been a more opposite avi when compared to the individual who chose it, than yours.....



"...capitalism is broken."



85. “U.S. adds 136,000 jobs in September, unemployment rate hits 50-year low”
Published: Oct 4, 2019 10:32 a.m. ET

U.S. adds 136,000 jobs in September, unemployment rate hits 50-year low

86. “Record 158,510,000 Americans Employed in October; 23rd Record for Trump” Record 158,510,000 Americans Employed in October; 23rd Record for Trump
87. “Black Unemployment Rate Hits All Time Low”
Huge October Payrolls Beat: 128K Jobs Added As Black Unemployment Rate Hits All Time Low
88. “Dow jumps more than 200 points to 28,000, posts 4-week winning streak The Dow Jones Industrial Average rallied to record levels on Friday, reaching 28,000 for the first time ever…” Dow jumps more than 200 points to 28,000, posts 4-week winning streak
89. “Jobs growth soars in November as payrolls surge by 266,000

Nonfarm payrolls surged by 266,000 in November, better than the 187,000 expected by economists polled by Dow Jones.

The unemployment rate ticked down to 3.5% from 3.6%, back to the 2019 low and matching the lowest jobless rate since 1969.

Average hourly earnings rose by 3.1% from a year ago, slightly above the 3% expected by economists polled by Dow Jones. Jobs growth soars in November as payrolls surge by 266,000


90. “CNN Poll: US economy receives its best ranking in nearly 20 years
(CNN)As 2019 comes to a close, the US economy earns its highest ratings in almost two decades, potentially boosting President Donald Trump in matchups against the Democrats vying to face him in next year's election, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.’” US economy receives its best ranking in nearly 20 years, CNN poll finds - CNNPolitics

91." Appointing conservative judges is the one objective that unites the Republican Party. It is one of the few things the Senate can do without the House.

And it is something that immediately impacts public policy because, during times of divided government, many political fights end up being resolved judicially.

Trump may not have the “best people” representing him or running his White House, but he’s picking them to be judges. Indeed, “based solely on objective legal credentials,” left-leaning Vox’s Ian Millhiser says, “the average Trump appointee has a far more impressive résumé than any past president’s nominees.”
Approximately 40 percent of Trump’s appellate nominees clerked for a Supreme Court justice, and about 80 percent clerked on a federal court of appeals. That compares to less than a quarter of Obama’s nominees who clerked on the Supreme Court, and less than half with a federal appellate clerkship."
All We Want for Christmas is More Judges: Ho, Ho, Ho

92. “China Says Economic Growth Fell to Lowest in 30 Years
China’s economy was weighed down by U.S. tariffs…” China Says Economic Growth Fell to Lowest in 30 Years | Breitbart

93. “Boom! Trump Has The Lowest Average Unemployment Rate of Any President in Recorded History” Boom! Trump Has The Lowest Average Unemployment Rate of Any President in Recorded History
94. “Private payrolls soar in January, the best monthly gain in nearly 5 years The jobs market kicked off 2020 in grand fashion, adding 291,000 in private payrolls for the best monthly gain since May 2015, according to a report Wednesday from ADP and Moody’s Analytics. That was well above the 150,000 estimate from economists…” Private payrolls soar in January, the best monthly gain in nearly 5 years

95. “Trump Budget Cuts Size of Federal Government,
President Donald Trump’s proposed budget for fiscal year 2021 would reduce the size and reach of the federal bureaucracy significantly by shifting government responsibilities back to constitutional priorities and empowering state and local governments. These reforms, contained in the request Trump sent Monday morning to Congress, would put the budget on track to balance and represent a significant first step toward reducing spending and stabilizing the nation’s unsustainable debt.” Trump Budget Cuts Federal Government, but Bolder Reforms Needed

 

[PoliticalChic]

Especially to the young?

Why are the young so enamored with Socialism/Communism/Liberalism?
It may not be what seems to be the answer, free stuff.

The Answer may be something inherent to the human condition: a desire to be unique, and independent, and to make your own rules, and not have to answer to anyone else.



1.When Albert Camus wrote “The Rebel,” he put his finger on an aspect of human nature that most of us have, more so as youth, but, still, throughout our lives. We yearn to stand out, to be different, …we see it when the prettiest girl runs off with the ‘bad boy,’ or when the wild haired radical is the one everyone is talking about. True, family, and the desire for success often smooths the edges off, moderates how ‘different’ one chooses to be, and sometimes, later on, when we’ve given up most of that rebellion, we might come to resent those who actually carry it off…..but in our youth, we have it.

It’s all about the degree and desire to rebel.

2. Freud claimed he could document and explain that need to rebel, relating it to a biological phenomenon…. “The Rebel Instinct: How Each Generation's Need To Out-Rebel The Previous Generation Is Pushing Society To Wild Extremes” The Rebel Instinct: How Each Generation's Need To Out-Rebel The Previous Generation Is Pushing Society To Wild Extremes

But whether it is psychological or biological…….it appears, most significantly, to be political.




3. A tip of the hat to Freud: there is no disputing the desire to stop taking orders from parents. OK. But it grows, in many, to the desire to not have to show respect, take orders from, or to mirror the style and tradition of an older, more successful generation. Perhaps the claim that socialists/communists are all about greed, to take from the successful without the work that went into that success...’You didn’t build that!’ …isn’t just to get the material things…


........it’s the psychological reward of rebellion.


Perhaps the rebel wants to gain that success by a different path, one that doesn’t require looking like, sounding like, and behaving like, our elders, that explains the 50% of Democrats who are socialists. Enter Bernie Sanders, stage Left.




Now…..get this, the fly in their ointment:

The problem for those rebels is that they have given up the intellect and the education that reveals what Socialism, Communism, Progressivism produces for societies, always:

....serfs, slaves….or corpses.

Nonsense.
The ONLY way to have serfs, slaves, or corpses with with a system that is for profit, and that is capitalism.
Socialism is always without a personal profit motive, so has no means of becoming corrupt.
Socialism means collaborative and communal planning and profit sharing, which can only happen with a democracy.
All good government is always socialist, like public roads, schools, fire fighting, defense, etc.
All bad government is always capitalist, like monarchies, dictators, feudal barons, etc.

"The ONLY way to have serfs, slaves, or corpses with with a system that is for profit, and that is capitalism."

NOW do you see why you shouldn't have left school for the circus in the third grade????

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'd like to see, in their own words, exactly what they think socialism is before I'd render any conclusion.

In this very thread, I'm gonna provide a first hand account of a society that embraced socialism/communism.

That is easy, because obviously the US government it entirely socialist already, and the only thing missing is health care.
Almost all government are always socialist, in that they are not involved in anything for profit.

Do the attendants know you've gotten to the computers again?????

 

[Rigby5]

The problem as the "socialists" see it is income inequality.
Why should Bloomberg have $62b and they are in debt and are working for slave wages?
Why should the US devolve toward a few hundred "oligarch billionaires" and the rest of us "peons"?
We must band together to set things right, we must tax the rich and distribute the income more fairly.
IMHO the Republicans can't keep winning elections, so what happens when the democrats eventually win?

Certainly, what you say is true, and the most commonly attributed of socialism...

Dennis Prager has written

1. The Left has been far more interested in fighting material inequality than tyranny, which is why Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, etc., tend to have the support of Leftists around the world.
2. The Left is less interested in creating wealth than in distributing it.

But there is more....there is need to claim that they are different from others who may be able to point to more accomplishments.

No leftist has ever supported Lenin, Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot, who were capitalists and killed off any socialist they could.
Ho Chi Minh and Castro are more of a mixture and not easily categorized.

All wealth actually is created by labor at the bottom.
The ones at the top simply can control what the laborers at the bottom get paid from the work they do, and do no production themselves, at all.

 

[Brain357]

Because our capitalism is broken. Workers have few rights. We have many near monopolies, wage collusion, non compete agreements... the government is bought by corporations, look at all the money in politics...

There has never been a more opposite avi when compared to the individual who chose it, than yours.....



"...capitalism is broken."



85. “U.S. adds 136,000 jobs in September, unemployment rate hits 50-year low”
Published: Oct 4, 2019 10:32 a.m. ET

U.S. adds 136,000 jobs in September, unemployment rate hits 50-year low

86. “Record 158,510,000 Americans Employed in October; 23rd Record for Trump” Record 158,510,000 Americans Employed in October; 23rd Record for Trump
87. “Black Unemployment Rate Hits All Time Low”
Huge October Payrolls Beat: 128K Jobs Added As Black Unemployment Rate Hits All Time Low
88. “Dow jumps more than 200 points to 28,000, posts 4-week winning streak The Dow Jones Industrial Average rallied to record levels on Friday, reaching 28,000 for the first time ever…” Dow jumps more than 200 points to 28,000, posts 4-week winning streak
89. “Jobs growth soars in November as payrolls surge by 266,000

Nonfarm payrolls surged by 266,000 in November, better than the 187,000 expected by economists polled by Dow Jones.

The unemployment rate ticked down to 3.5% from 3.6%, back to the 2019 low and matching the lowest jobless rate since 1969.

Average hourly earnings rose by 3.1% from a year ago, slightly above the 3% expected by economists polled by Dow Jones. Jobs growth soars in November as payrolls surge by 266,000


90. “CNN Poll: US economy receives its best ranking in nearly 20 years
(CNN)As 2019 comes to a close, the US economy earns its highest ratings in almost two decades, potentially boosting President Donald Trump in matchups against the Democrats vying to face him in next year's election, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.’” US economy receives its best ranking in nearly 20 years, CNN poll finds - CNNPolitics

91." Appointing conservative judges is the one objective that unites the Republican Party. It is one of the few things the Senate can do without the House.

And it is something that immediately impacts public policy because, during times of divided government, many political fights end up being resolved judicially.

Trump may not have the “best people” representing him or running his White House, but he’s picking them to be judges. Indeed, “based solely on objective legal credentials,” left-leaning Vox’s Ian Millhiser says, “the average Trump appointee has a far more impressive résumé than any past president’s nominees.”
Approximately 40 percent of Trump’s appellate nominees clerked for a Supreme Court justice, and about 80 percent clerked on a federal court of appeals. That compares to less than a quarter of Obama’s nominees who clerked on the Supreme Court, and less than half with a federal appellate clerkship."
All We Want for Christmas is More Judges: Ho, Ho, Ho

92. “China Says Economic Growth Fell to Lowest in 30 Years
China’s economy was weighed down by U.S. tariffs…” China Says Economic Growth Fell to Lowest in 30 Years | Breitbart

93. “Boom! Trump Has The Lowest Average Unemployment Rate of Any President in Recorded History” Boom! Trump Has The Lowest Average Unemployment Rate of Any President in Recorded History
94. “Private payrolls soar in January, the best monthly gain in nearly 5 years The jobs market kicked off 2020 in grand fashion, adding 291,000 in private payrolls for the best monthly gain since May 2015, according to a report Wednesday from ADP and Moody’s Analytics. That was well above the 150,000 estimate from economists…” Private payrolls soar in January, the best monthly gain in nearly 5 years

95. “Trump Budget Cuts Size of Federal Government,
President Donald Trump’s proposed budget for fiscal year 2021 would reduce the size and reach of the federal bureaucracy significantly by shifting government responsibilities back to constitutional priorities and empowering state and local governments. These reforms, contained in the request Trump sent Monday morning to Congress, would put the budget on track to balance and represent a significant first step toward reducing spending and stabilizing the nation’s unsustainable debt.” Trump Budget Cuts Federal Government, but Bolder Reforms Needed

Super low unemployment with labor shortages and still weak wage growth. Capitalism broken.

huge tax cuts for corporations and gdp growth goes down.

it is broken...