What is it?

[Foxfyre]

So tell me flat out Foxfyre do you think YOUR religious doctrines should be IMPOSED on the rest of society?

And here is that other shoe dropping I figured was out there somewhere.

No, I do not believe my religious doctrines should be imposed on anybody. I believe the U.S. Constitution was explicit that nobody's religious doctrines should be imposed on anybody, nor their political doctrines nor their attitudes about gold fish, rutabagas, sliced bread, or anything else.

Nor do I believe your religious beliefs nor your political doctrines nor your attitudes about gold fish, rutabagas, sliced bread, or anything else should be imposed on anybody.

So long as we do not tread on the rights of others, I believe we each have the right to express our thoughts, beliefs, and convictions without fear of consequence from government or our neighbor, and we each have the right to choose to associate with those of like mind if that is our preference.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I belong to the church I do because I agree with the doctrinal points they espouse, which should be obvious. They teach the Bible as it is written, rather than trying to make it fit what they want it to be. They combine an unapologetic belief in and acceptance of the spiritual with a very pragmatic approach to everyday Christian life. Most important, they emphasize that relations with God are personal and individual, and that anyone and anything can and should be questioned until you find the answer for yourself, rather than expecting people to simply accept that whatever the pastor says is automatically right.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So tell me flat out Foxfyre do you think YOUR religious doctrines should be IMPOSED on the rest of society?

And here is that other shoe dropping I figured was out there somewhere.

No, I do not believe my religious doctrines should be imposed on anybody. I believe the U.S. Constitution was explicit that nobody's religious doctrines should be imposed on anybody, nor their political doctrines nor their attitudes about gold fish, rutabagas, sliced bread, or anything else.

Nor do I believe your religious beliefs nor your political doctrines nor your attitudes about gold fish, rutabagas, sliced bread, or anything else should be imposed on anybody.

So long as we do not tread on the rights of others, I believe we each have the right to express our thoughts, beliefs, and convictions without fear of consequence from government or our neighbor, and we each have the right to choose to associate with those of like mind if that is our preference.

AGREED! 100% AGREED. Now if only those in MY community overall felt like you do. You see I live in Idaho which is VERY conservative and we are under CONSTANT barrage from the religious right to impose THEIR views on OUR gov't, society, schools, etc. After a while I assure you you get tired of it. You DO have the right to your beliefs and as I said I RESPECT your faith, good works, and genuinely decent personality (so far as I know you) but BELIEVE me there are FAR TOO MANY who USE there religion and the FAITH of others to engage in IMPOSITION of THEIR values on the rest of us. I AM TIRED OF IT!!!! I want my gov't to be COMPLETELY free of religious ties, I want to be able to live HOW I WISH TO so long as I don't hurt others in the pursuit of my OWN happiness. Do you understand how simple my wish is? I want to be LEFT ALONE!!! That's it just leave me the heck alone. I am as you might guess an athiest but I am NOT without morals, I believe I have the right to live in whatever fasion I choose so long as MY desires do not interfere with OTHERS rights. Tell me is there ANYTHING wrong with my wish?

 

[Foxfyre]

So tell me flat out Foxfyre do you think YOUR religious doctrines should be IMPOSED on the rest of society?

And here is that other shoe dropping I figured was out there somewhere.

No, I do not believe my religious doctrines should be imposed on anybody. I believe the U.S. Constitution was explicit that nobody's religious doctrines should be imposed on anybody, nor their political doctrines nor their attitudes about gold fish, rutabagas, sliced bread, or anything else.

Nor do I believe your religious beliefs nor your political doctrines nor your attitudes about gold fish, rutabagas, sliced bread, or anything else should be imposed on anybody.

So long as we do not tread on the rights of others, I believe we each have the right to express our thoughts, beliefs, and convictions without fear of consequence from government or our neighbor, and we each have the right to choose to associate with those of like mind if that is our preference.

AGREED! 100% AGREED. Now if only those in MY community overall felt like you do. You see I live in Idaho which is VERY conservative and we are under CONSTANT barrage from the religious right to impose THEIR views on OUR gov't, society, schools, etc. After a while I assure you you get tired of it. You DO have the right to your beliefs and as I said I RESPECT your faith, good works, and genuinely decent personality (so far as I know you) but BELIEVE me there are FAR TOO MANY who USE there religion and the FAITH of others to engage in IMPOSITION of THEIR values on the rest of us. I AM TIRED OF IT!!!! I want my gov't to be COMPLETELY free of religious ties, I want to be able to live HOW I WISH TO so long as I don't hurt others in the pursuit of my OWN happiness. Do you understand how simple my wish is? I want to be LEFT ALONE!!! That's it just leave me the heck alone. I am as you might guess an athiest but I am NOT without morals, I believe I have the right to live in whatever fasion I choose so long as MY desires do not interfere with OTHERS rights. Tell me is there ANYTHING wrong with my wish?

There is such a a thing as social contract, however, and each community or even each state will have different ideas of how that will look. Some people like lots of bars and strip clubs and gambling casinos and night clubs and adult bookstores, etc. and, if that's what floats their boat, and the majority agrees, then that's what they should have.

But if you have a community that is made up of mostly Mennonite and/or other conservative groups and they don't want their kids growing up amongst bars, strip clubs, adult bookstores, etc., then that community shouldn't have to have them. The few who disagree can move to the areas where such is welcome and vice versa.

So it really depends on what you interpret as imposition of one's faith on somebody else. Are we talking about everybody being required to conform to a certain standard of beliefs? That would be wrong.

Or are we talking about the majority lobbying to have their values included? Our Constitution was based on the premise that everybody would be allowed to create the society they wanted short of denying or violating other people's rights.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

And here is that other shoe dropping I figured was out there somewhere.

No, I do not believe my religious doctrines should be imposed on anybody. I believe the U.S. Constitution was explicit that nobody's religious doctrines should be imposed on anybody, nor their political doctrines nor their attitudes about gold fish, rutabagas, sliced bread, or anything else.

Nor do I believe your religious beliefs nor your political doctrines nor your attitudes about gold fish, rutabagas, sliced bread, or anything else should be imposed on anybody.

So long as we do not tread on the rights of others, I believe we each have the right to express our thoughts, beliefs, and convictions without fear of consequence from government or our neighbor, and we each have the right to choose to associate with those of like mind if that is our preference.

AGREED! 100% AGREED. Now if only those in MY community overall felt like you do. You see I live in Idaho which is VERY conservative and we are under CONSTANT barrage from the religious right to impose THEIR views on OUR gov't, society, schools, etc. After a while I assure you you get tired of it. You DO have the right to your beliefs and as I said I RESPECT your faith, good works, and genuinely decent personality (so far as I know you) but BELIEVE me there are FAR TOO MANY who USE there religion and the FAITH of others to engage in IMPOSITION of THEIR values on the rest of us. I AM TIRED OF IT!!!! I want my gov't to be COMPLETELY free of religious ties, I want to be able to live HOW I WISH TO so long as I don't hurt others in the pursuit of my OWN happiness. Do you understand how simple my wish is? I want to be LEFT ALONE!!! That's it just leave me the heck alone. I am as you might guess an athiest but I am NOT without morals, I believe I have the right to live in whatever fasion I choose so long as MY desires do not interfere with OTHERS rights. Tell me is there ANYTHING wrong with my wish?

There is such a a thing as social contract, however, and each community or even each state will have different ideas of how that will look. Some people like lots of bars and strip clubs and gambling casinos and night clubs and adult bookstores, etc. and, if that's what floats their boat, and the majority agrees, then that's what they should have.

But if you have a community that is made up of mostly Mennonite and/or other conservative groups and they don't want their kids growing up amongst bars, strip clubs, adult bookstores, etc., then that community shouldn't have to have them. The few who disagree can move to the areas where such is welcome and vice versa.

So it really depends on what you interpret as imposition of one's faith on somebody else. Are we talking about everybody being required to conform to a certain standard of beliefs? That would be wrong.

Or are we talking about the majority lobbying to have their values included? Our Constitution was based on the premise that everybody would be allowed to create the society they wanted short of denying or violating other people's rights.

Well that would be my take on it that MY rights are being DENYED. You see the thing is if we have say a strip club NOBODY is being forced to go through their doors, NOBODY. But on the flip side if that is my chosen form of entertainment your are DENYING me my right to pursuit of hapiness. It makes ME happy and it is behind CLOSED DOORS so what in the Constitution gives people in my community the RIGHT to DENY me my chosen pleasure?

 

[Foxfyre]

AGREED! 100% AGREED. Now if only those in MY community overall felt like you do. You see I live in Idaho which is VERY conservative and we are under CONSTANT barrage from the religious right to impose THEIR views on OUR gov't, society, schools, etc. After a while I assure you you get tired of it. You DO have the right to your beliefs and as I said I RESPECT your faith, good works, and genuinely decent personality (so far as I know you) but BELIEVE me there are FAR TOO MANY who USE there religion and the FAITH of others to engage in IMPOSITION of THEIR values on the rest of us. I AM TIRED OF IT!!!! I want my gov't to be COMPLETELY free of religious ties, I want to be able to live HOW I WISH TO so long as I don't hurt others in the pursuit of my OWN happiness. Do you understand how simple my wish is? I want to be LEFT ALONE!!! That's it just leave me the heck alone. I am as you might guess an athiest but I am NOT without morals, I believe I have the right to live in whatever fasion I choose so long as MY desires do not interfere with OTHERS rights. Tell me is there ANYTHING wrong with my wish?

There is such a a thing as social contract, however, and each community or even each state will have different ideas of how that will look. Some people like lots of bars and strip clubs and gambling casinos and night clubs and adult bookstores, etc. and, if that's what floats their boat, and the majority agrees, then that's what they should have.

But if you have a community that is made up of mostly Mennonite and/or other conservative groups and they don't want their kids growing up amongst bars, strip clubs, adult bookstores, etc., then that community shouldn't have to have them. The few who disagree can move to the areas where such is welcome and vice versa.

So it really depends on what you interpret as imposition of one's faith on somebody else. Are we talking about everybody being required to conform to a certain standard of beliefs? That would be wrong.

Or are we talking about the majority lobbying to have their values included? Our Constitution was based on the premise that everybody would be allowed to create the society they wanted short of denying or violating other people's rights.

Well that would be my take on it that MY rights are being DENYED. You see the thing is if we have say a strip club NOBODY is being forced to go through their doors, NOBODY. But on the flip side if that is my chosen form of entertainment your are DENYING me my right to pursuit of hapiness. It makes ME happy and it is behind CLOSED DOORS so what in the Constitution gives people in my community the RIGHT to DENY me my chosen pleasure?

Nobody is denying you anything. All the community is saying that they don't want a strip club in their community. They aren't saying you shouldn't go to one. They are just saying that if you do, go somewhere else. That is no different than communities with no drive up liquor store windows (really silly if you ask me) or ordinances that you can't put a bar or adult bookstore next to a school or that you can't drive 90 miles per hour down mainstreet even if nobody is out there at the time . A society should be able to organize itself so that it is aesthetically pleasing to the community and in most places, especially small towns, most ordinances are to accomplish just that. If I and my neighbors don't want a shopping mall blocking our view of the park we have the right to petition the city to not allow the zoning. If enough people want the shopping mall to be there, however, we will lose our petition and they will win theirs. That's the way it should be.

Generally most communities work stuff like that out. But people of faith have as much right to petition and protest as anybody else does and they aren't FORCING their views on anybody when they do it any more than anybody else is. They are simply making their wishes known about what sort of community they want their community to be. Just like everybody else does.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

What is it about your religion that makes you want to be part of it?

I can answer for every single person.

'Because it's right.'

Thread over.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

WRONG. When you DENY a group or individual their RIGHT to choose you are TAKING THAT RIGHT AWAY!!! Why is there a problem with a strip club? Why INSTEAD of taking away my RIGHTS you just stay OUT of it?

 

[Foxfyre]

What is it about your religion that makes you want to be part of it?

I can answer for every single person.

'Because it's right.'

Thread over.

That doesn't answer for me. I don't know what the ultimate right is. I don't think anybody does. After a lifetime of study on this stuff, I have come to the conclusion that all religions have a piece of the truth here and there and that none of them have it all. So I settle in where I am most comfortable and where it makes the most sense. I have no doubt, however, that when we meet our Maker, he won't be all that impressed with our theology if he cares about it at all, and we are going to be really surprised at how much of it we got wrong.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

What is it about your religion that makes you want to be part of it?

I can answer for every single person.

'Because it's right.'

Thread over.

SORRY FAIL!!!! Because they can't ALL be "RIGHT" now can they?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

What is it about your religion that makes you want to be part of it?

I can answer for every single person.

'Because it's right.'

Thread over.

That doesn't answer for me. I don't know what the ultimate right is.

Then you hold an agnostic opinion because you believe it's the right conclusion based on the evidence available to you.

As I said, everything thinks they're right...

 

[☭proletarian☭]

What is it about your religion that makes you want to be part of it?

I can answer for every single person.

'Because it's right.'

Thread over.

SORRY FAIL!!!! Because they can't ALL be "RIGHT" now can they?

YOu fail, wiley. I never said any given religion was right. I said everyone adheres to the beliefs, religions, and ideologies they do because 'it's right'- that is, they believe it to be right.

Learn to read and then get back to me.

 

[Foxfyre]

I can answer for every single person.

'Because it's right.'

Thread over.

That doesn't answer for me. I don't know what the ultimate right is.

Then you hold an agnostic opinion because you believe it's the right conclusion based on the evidence available to you.

As I said, everything thinks they're right...

No I am in no way agnostic. I know beyond any doubt that God is. But if you go back a bit in this thread you will also see that I don't confuse my relationship with God with any concept of organized religion. I am of the school that if any of us could figure out God, he wouldn't be much of a God. And that's why I don't believe there is any religion, included churches organized around Christianity, who have it all figured out. We are all a work in progress whether we know that or not.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

That doesn't answer for me. I don't know what the ultimate right is.

Then you hold an agnostic opinion because you believe it's the right conclusion based on the evidence available to you.

As I said, everything thinks they're right...

No I am in no way agnostic.

So you do claim absolute knowledge?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I can answer for every single person.

'Because it's right.'

Thread over.

SORRY FAIL!!!! Because they can't ALL be "RIGHT" now can they?

YOu fail, wiley. I never said any given religion was right. I said everyone adheres to the beliefs, religions, and ideologies they do because 'it's right'- that is, they believe it to be right.

Learn to read and then get back to me.

Sorry that TOTALY went over my head (embarresed head shake). I though it sounded kind of stramge coming from you. I get you point now and it's a good one. The thing is Fox is pretty decent so don't be to hard on him/her.

 

[Cecilie1200]

WRONG. When you DENY a group or individual their RIGHT to choose you are TAKING THAT RIGHT AWAY!!! Why is there a problem with a strip club? Why INSTEAD of taking away my RIGHTS you just stay OUT of it?

As far as I know, there is no right to open a strip club - or any type of business - anywhere you want. Your city government has the right to pass zoning laws as they think best for the community as a whole. Thus, some areas are zoned for residential, some for commercial, some for industrial, and some types of business are restricted to certain parts of the city.

You can't take away a right that you never had in the first place.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Zoning laws say you can't have a certain type of business in a certain ZONE hence the name ZONING laws it does NOT say you can make it illegal to open ANYWHERE in the city/state.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Zoning laws say you can't have a certain type of business in a certain ZONE hence the name ZONING laws it does NOT say you can make it illegal to open ANYWHERE in the city/state.

Where do you live, that it's illegal to have a strip club anywhere in the state?

 

[Foxfyre]

Then you hold an agnostic opinion because you believe it's the right conclusion based on the evidence available to you.

As I said, everything thinks they're right...

No I am in no way agnostic.

So you do claim absolute knowledge?

Absolute knowledge that there is a God? Definitely. But it is based on experience, not religious teaching or doctrine of any kind.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

zoning laws say you can't have a certain type of business in a certain zone hence the name zoning laws it does not say you can make it illegal to open anywhere in the city/state.

where do you live, that it's illegal to have a strip club anywhere in the state?

idaho!