What ceiling?

[jreeves]

Failing to raise the debt limit is "not an option," House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said Tuesday.

Hoyer encouraged colleagues to raise the federal debt limit, but said that Congress must take serious steps in the future toward addressing its long term deficits and debt.

Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.) demanded Tuesday that an increase in the debt ceiling be accompanied by the creation of a bipartisan commission to examine the deficit, a topic on which Hoyer showed some openness, but was ultimately noncommittal.

"While failing to increase the debt limit is not an option, the need to raise the debt limit should be accompanied by a serious discussion about possible actions we can take to deal with our fiscal challenge," Hoyer said in a statement. "Putting in place a mechanism to deal with our long-term fiscal shortfalls, as well as legislation restoring statutory PAYGO, should be a part of that discussion."

Hoyer noted some senators' support for the commission -- which he has previously endorsed -- but did not say specifically whether it should be tied to the debt ceiling vote.

"I look forward to working with my colleagues in the House and Senate on these and other actions to deal with our fiscal challenges," he said.

Hoyer: Failing to raise debt ceiling 'not an option' - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

Appoint a commission to examine the deficit? So spend money to save money...

How about spending less money than you take in, in tax revenue? Omg I just saved us millions of dollars right off the bat.

 

[Polk]

So what gets cut? Social Security? Medicare? Defense spending? Yeah, none of those things are happening.

 

[Claudette]

Jeeze. Sure wish I could raise my debt ceiling. How about you???

 

[veritas]

Single payer, stop the wars........tax the shit out of Wall St.

Surplus achieved.

 

[Polk]

Also, it would be a lot easier to take these deficit concerns more seriously if several of these same members had not vote for a 250 billion dollar tax cut for the children of multi-millionaires earlier this year,

 

[jreeves]

Single payer, stop the wars........tax the shit out of Wall St.

Surplus achieved.

Yeah right after the Obama administration gets done delivering their swine flu vaccines. Isn't it interesting, H1N1 vaccine shortages yet Wall Street gets the vaccines?

Btw tax the shit out of Wall St. and watch the markets crash, brilliant.

 

[jreeves]

So what gets cut? Social Security? Medicare? Defense spending? Yeah, none of those things are happening.

Umm...lets see here maybe cut all the stimulus checks to prisoners, stop the funding for multi-million dollar turtle tunnels in Fl., do we really need to fund frisbee golf parks with tax money?, how much money do we need appropriated for signs stating this project was financed by the American Reinvestment Act?, Should tax payers be paying for olive fruit fly research?, Does the United States military really need to be in every country that we currently have troops in?.....etc....

Just a beginning....

 

[jreeves]

Also, it would be a lot easier to take these deficit concerns more seriously if several of these same members had not vote for a 250 billion dollar tax cut for the children of multi-millionaires earlier this year,

Yes after all we should tax dead people.

 

[ba1614]

Also, it would be a lot easier to take these deficit concerns more seriously if several of these same members had not vote for a 250 billion dollar tax cut for the children of multi-millionaires earlier this year,

Yes after all we should tax dead people.

Well it's only "fair" for someone who busted their nuts to acquire 2-3 mil in a lifetime of work to give 55% of their already taxed property to the government to distribute to those who wouldn't do what is required to succeed. After all, that is "rich", and it's these evil people who are responsible for all the planets ills anyway.

 

[The Rabbi]

What to cut:
Let's start with all funding for the arts. Then we can go to the entire dept of education, move their statistical functions to Treasury. Then get rid of Fannie/Freddie and FhA. From there reduce Dept of Agriculture budget by 90%, keeping only the statistical gathering parts. End aid to states at tthe same time you remove unfunded mandates to states. It's a wash.
Use the savings to cut corporate tax rates and institute a flat tax. Watch the economy grow like mad and use the tax revenues to pay off the debt. Done.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So what gets cut? Social Security? Medicare? Defense spending? Yeah, none of those things are happening.

Social Security is ILLEGAL as well as medicare. BUT if the Government would stop robbing the coffers of these programs for other programs they would not be in the red, at least not Social Security.

Cut all the ILLEGAL Government programs, SS, Medicare, HUD, Education, Art programs, music programs, a host of little programs created by individual congressman and Senators for their States.

Make it a REQUIREMENT that every bill and every part of every bill must show HOW it is Constitutional or it can not be even forwarded to the floor for a vote. Include the justification in every new bill even after passed and on every amendment of every bill. Make this retroactive, require Congress to go back and make it known what they claim is Constitutional about all the bills they have ever passed.

 

[Navy1960]

So what gets cut? Social Security? Medicare? Defense spending? Yeah, none of those things are happening.

Social Security is ILLEGAL as well as medicare. BUT if the Government would stop robbing the coffers of these programs for other programs they would not be in the red, at least not Social Security.

Cut all the ILLEGAL Government programs, SS, Medicare, HUD, Education, Art programs, music programs, a host of little programs created by individual congressman and Senators for their States.

Make it a REQUIREMENT that every bill and every part of every bill must show HOW it is Constitutional or it can not be even forwarded to the floor for a vote. Include the justification in every new bill even after passed and on every amendment of every bill. Make this retroactive, require Congress to go back and make it known what they claim is Constitutional about all the bills they have ever passed.

Just a little note on that, here is what the current method ot thinking on the Hill is. They have authority to pretty much pass anything they wish under the "general welfare" clause. If this were true then I am waiting for the mandates for GM cars.

CNSNews.com) – House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said that the individual health insurance mandates included in every health reform bill, which require Americans to have insurance, were “like paying taxes.” He added that Congress has “broad authority” to force Americans to purchase other things as well, so long as it was trying to promote “the general welfare.”

The Congressional Budget Office, however, has stated in the past that a mandate forcing Americans to buy health insurance would be an “unprecedented form of federal action,” and that the “government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States.”
CNSNews.com - Hoyer Says Constitution’s ‘General Welfare’ Clause Empowers Congress to Order Americans to Buy Health Insurance

Artile 1 Sec. 8

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

What Congress fails to understand is that tax does not extend to the mandating of purchasing a good or service so that it may be taxed nor does it extend to using that tax as a penalty for not purcahsing a good or service. I find it interesting that on the one hand you have democrats defending "choice" with ferver when it comes to the abortion issue and then on the other hand when it comes to choice they will just up and surrender it. The point is they need these people to be mandated into the system otherwise the whole scheme collapses. Raising the debt ceiling is nothing but smoke and mirrors and is a way to offset the stunning impact bills like these will have.

 

[midcan5]

When Bush was elected he had a golden opportunity to address deficit spending and what did he do? He gave his people - the sponges on America - more money and more money led to greed and greed led to .... no need to continue. But think for a moment, would it have been possible for Bush to do the right thing and support a balanced budget and sensible regulatory policy. Please think about that for a bit. And realize I know Bush is not in charge - thank gawd - but we did not arrive here by magic. Oh that each president could have what dopey W had.


"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well."

Tax cuts spur economic growth
The Idolatry of Ideology-Why Tax Cuts Hurt the Economy by Russ Beaton


The Conservative Nanny State

"On moral grounds, then, we could argue for a flat income tax of 90 percent to return that wealth to its real owners. In the United States, even a flat tax of 70 percent would support all governmental programs (about half the total tax) and allow payment, with the remainder, of a patrimony of about $8,000 per annum per inhabitant, or $25,000 for a family of three. This would generously leave with the original recipients of the income about three times what, according to my rough guess, they had earned."

http://www.bostonreview.net/BR25.5/simon.html


Myth: The rich get rich because of their merit.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-richmerit.htm

 

[blastoff]

Bush in consort with Republicans and Democrats in congress created debt.

Obama in consort with Democrats and 2-3 Republicans here and there have created debt. And they want to pile on a whole lot more.

 

[Charles Stucker]

"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well."

A few facts on this
In 1933 the nation was in the midst of the great depression, so naturally by climbing out of the Depression there was economic growth.
1941-1945 saw a wartime economy, which again spurs growth.
1946 to ~1966 saw easy US dominance of markets because we were the only major industrialized nation not gutted by WWII.

Most of the other rich nations use protectionist tariffs to help keep industry in their country. Perhaps, rather than high taxes, that is their source of growth. Except for one thing - which particular countries have higher taxes and faster growth?

Less spending is better than more taxes, particularly since taxes hit the worker hardest and spending benefits the non-worker most.

 

[Polk]

"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well."

A few facts on this
In 1933 the nation was in the midst of the great depression, so naturally by climbing out of the Depression there was economic growth.
1941-1945 saw a wartime economy, which again spurs growth.
1946 to ~1966 saw easy US dominance of markets because we were the only major industrialized nation not gutted by WWII.

Most of the other rich nations use protectionist tariffs to help keep industry in their country. Perhaps, rather than high taxes, that is their source of growth. Except for one thing - which particular countries have higher taxes and faster growth?

Less spending is better than more taxes, particularly since taxes hit the worker hardest and spending benefits the non-worker most.

Growth isn't a virtue in and of itself.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Most of the other rich nations use protectionist tariffs to help keep industry in their country. Perhaps, rather than high taxes, that is their source of growth. Except for one thing - which particular countries have higher taxes and faster growth?

Ireland, for one.

Ireland Economy 2009, CIA World Factbook

Ireland Tax Laws Tax System Ireland. - WorldWide-Tax.com

 

[Polk]

Most of the other rich nations use protectionist tariffs to help keep industry in their country. Perhaps, rather than high taxes, that is their source of growth. Except for one thing - which particular countries have higher taxes and faster growth?

Ireland, for one.

Ireland Economy 2009, CIA World Factbook

Ireland Tax Laws Tax System Ireland. - WorldWide-Tax.com

I imagine the counter will be that Ireland has very low corporate taxes, which is both true and false. It's true in the sense that they're low on paper and they're lower than most of the European Union (that, plus an English-speaking workforce, makes them an attractive HQ for European operations for American firms). It's false that they're low relative to the US (which we have high corporate taxes on paper, we have so many deductions that companies end up paying a very low rate).

 

[Mr. Peepers]

They also have really great, efficient (and much cheaper) health care. I was there in July 2009 and was really impressed by that country. I had many health care conversations with anyone who would talk about it, and not all were Irish. They were truly shocked at learning about our stupid "disease care" system. As am I. I'm considering moving there, myself, one day. Would be a great place to retire. Great way of life and wonderful people. A truly beautiful country.

 

[jreeves]

They also have really great, efficient (and much cheaper) health care. I was there in July 2009 and was really impressed by that country. I had many health care conversations with anyone who would talk about it, and not all were Irish. They were truly shocked at learning about our stupid "disease care" system. As am I. I'm considering moving there, myself, one day. Would be a great place to retire. Great way of life and wonderful people. A truly beautiful country.

Lmao, comparing a country who has a population of 4.5 million with a country who has well over 300 million people.

united states population - Google Search
Google - public data