We're All Spaniards Now

[manu1959]

Most of the people fighting us over there probably don't have the money for a plane ticket to come over here and strike us to begin with.

But let's say that one or more of them did have the money and/or passports and everything else required to come over and inflict another big strike on us. Do you think that they will say to themselves "Well...I was planning on setting off this big bomb in a crowded american stadium, killing hundreds of americans, setting off mass panic, and bringing my message to the headlines for days or weeks...but oh hey errr, what's this? Americans in Iraq! Goodness, I think I'll cancel that plane ticket. Then I'll put that bomb in the road, where it may kill a few soldiers in a humvee, and make page 3 of the news. If the soldiers don't spot it and disarm it first, or shoot me before I can finish setting it up."

It's like people think that our opponents (or at least the ones with the money/training/connections/passports to come to america) are dumb rabid bulls, charging at a matador. All we have to do is wave a red cape, and the poor dumb brutes will simply huff and grunt and charge into it unthinkingly.

if they could get here they would

 

[dilloduck]

if they could get here they would

I think they are here already---just waiting

 

[Gunny]

I think they are here already---just waiting

Probably drove a big truck across the Rio Grande with "Islamic Terrorists" painted in big letters on the side.

 

[Dr Grump]

Jillian - they were right in getting what I meant...)

Manu...hhhmmmm...I disagree with what you are saying re the ETA. For a start, the terrorists who bombed Madrid were not ETA, and they HAVE stopped...for now. I don't recall seeing in the news a new ETA offensive, or if there has been one, it has been minor. And why would ETA suddenly expect the Spanish govt to give into them when they have never done so in the past and are never likely to. The Spanish govt has a dog in the fight with the ETA, they don't with the AQ terrorists and their cohorts (unless there has been some mention of a Moor insurrection that I haven't read about).

OBL has always been about getting infidels OUT of SA and the ME. That is all he really seems to care about. Does he want the whole world to become an Islamic theocracy? Probably, but I doubt that is his goal.

 

[jillian]

Jillian - they were right in getting what I meant...)

You were saying that if we leave Iraq, they'll stop attacking us?

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Underestimating one's enemy can be fatal. The terrorists that struck on 9/11 probably couldn't afford a plane ticket either. So someone who could bought them.

Yes, I'm saying that the "fight them over there so they don't come here" is grossly underestimating the enemy's intelligence. If someone actually has the ability to strike us (whether it's their money or a benefactor, doesn't really matter), I don't think they are going to just head to Iraq instead, like a largemouth bass after a big shiny lure.

You're assuming a rattler won't strike, when it is the rattler's nature to do just that.

I'm assuming that a rattler which has the intention and ability to strike your ankle is not going to be distracted by a toy mouse on a string just because it's dangled right in front of his face.

if they could get here they would

Right, most of them can't. What I'm saying boils down to this:

* The ones who can't get here are only dangerous because we've delivered our troops right into their home turf;
* The ones who actually can get here (or who are already here) are going to be dangerous regardless of whether we're in the mideast or not. The Iraq war will in no way affect their plans of hitting america again.

Now if you want to talk about putting up a fence and using troops to seal the border, banning muslim immigration and so forth, that's something different. That would actually stand a chance of stopping a foreign terrorist, and it would have the added benefit of not stirring up any more shit overseas.

 

[Redhots]

The guy who wrote the original article is an idiot who doesn't know much about Spain's history with terrorism.

 

[Dr Grump]

You were saying that if we leave Iraq, they'll stop attacking us?

I think the US needs to leave the ME period...not just Iraq....

 

[Hobbit]

I think the US needs to leave the ME period...not just Iraq....

And what do we do when every building larger than a small house is getting levelled by suicide bombers? If we leave the ME, they will come here and kill us, as they clearly demonstrated on 9/11.

 

[Dr Grump]

And what do we do when every building larger than a small house is getting levelled by suicide bombers? If we leave the ME, they will come here and kill us, as they clearly demonstrated on 9/11.

Will they?

 

[Emmett]

Nope, if this goes the way it's looking, there will not be anyone rushing to greet anyone. If it goes the way it's looking, good luck with the 'all volunteer military,' if we need one anymore.

Damn, do you remember that joking post I did about a year ago or so where I labeled Nancy speaker and some other dems to cabinet positions?

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

And what do we do when every building larger than a small house is getting levelled by suicide bombers? If we leave the ME, they will come here and kill us, as they clearly demonstrated on 9/11.

But...we were in the mideast well before 9/11. The first attack, the 1993 WTC bombings, didn't come until after we had our troops in the area for a couple years. Then there was the long crippling embargo, cited as one of the reasons for the 9/11 attacks. And Britain's example has shown that the "Iraq is terrorist bait" theory doesn't hold up. It's true that we haven't been hit since the Iraq invasion, but correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation.

 

[jillian]

I think the US needs to leave the ME period...not just Iraq....

leave the mideast? we have interests there. I think we need to remake our mideast policy to make up for the neo-con policies of the last few years, but leaving totally? Not likely.

And then there is the issue of leaving Israel to the wolves.

 

[jillian]

And what do we do when every building larger than a small house is getting levelled by suicide bombers? If we leave the ME, they will come here and kill us, as they clearly demonstrated on 9/11.

They? We were attacked by guys who were mostly from Saudi Arabia and trained in Afghanistan. Iraq had nothing to do with it.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

They? We were attacked by guys who were mostly from Saudi Arabia and trained in Afghanistan. Iraq had nothing to do with it.

"They" meaning muslim radicals, Jillian. Are there any of those in Iraq? A little to early fer thinkin' eh?

 

[Adam's Apple]

Most of the people fighting us over there probably don't have the money for a plane ticket to come over here and strike us to begin with.

Simplistic response. Iran and Saudia Arabia have always been/are the financial arm of international terrorism. Iran has been the major sponsor of international terrorism since its inception (read Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America). And the terrorists don’t need to transport a 150,000 man army; they have demonstrated that a much smaller, clandestine force can get the job done for them.

Let's say that one or more of them did have the money and/or passports and everything else required to come over and inflict another big strike on us. Do you think that they will say to themselves "Well...I was planning on setting off this big bomb in a crowded American stadium, killing hundreds of Americans, setting off mass panic, and bringing my message to the headlines for days or weeks...but oh hey errr, what's this? Americans in Iraq! Goodness, I think I'll cancel that plane ticket. Then I'll put that bomb in the road, where it may kill a few soldiers in a humvee, and make page 3 of the news. If the soldiers don't spot it and disarm it first, or shoot me before I can finish setting it up."

As I have read and heard the news, that “bomb in the road”, as you put it, is making headline news--Page 1 in every newspaper and the lead article in every MSM newscast. It is the main focus of the MSM’s reporting of the WOT in Iraq. According to the MSM, our soldiers haven’t had much success in spotting the enemy setting up his IED’s. And haven’t you heard? The terrorists don’t care if they get shot while placing their IED’s; to them, that just means they are assured a place in heaven.

The Iraq war will in no way affect their plans of hitting American again.

It seems to have done just that. Are you saying there have been no attempts by the terrorists to attack America again in the five years since 2001? If so, that is certainly news to me, and you'll have to refer me to your source.

 

[Adam's Apple]

Iraq had nothing to do with it.

You keep singing that old liberal song that Iraq had nothing to do with international terrorism, Jillian. Well, where is your proof? I would recommend to you the same book that I recommended to the Baron. The author is a recognized authority on counter-terrorism, with long years of experience. You won't even have to read the 400+ pages. The last few chapters should put your argument to rest.

 

[Annie]

I think there are those lefties that don't care what shame they bring on us as a Nation so long as they achieve political victory.

However, I agree in the fact that I think the cut-n-runners are in for a rude awakening. I think they've misread this election bigtime.

Exactly. It's our parties that are reading the election wrong, both sides. While the citizens are disturbed by the relentless violence rehashed night after night; with none of the progress shown; they do NOT want to cut and run. The vast majority of adults do understand what Vietnam did to our self-image, not to mention to those we left behind. They do not want to repeat that.

Poll after poll have illuminated that while the people do not like how the war has been prosecuted, they do not want to pull out. But right now, it looks like that is what we'll do.

 

[Annie]

I think the US needs to leave the ME period...not just Iraq....

and then they'll stop?

 

[Dr Grump]

leave the mideast? we have interests there. I think we need to remake our mideast policy to make up for the neo-con policies of the last few years, but leaving totally? Not likely.

And then there is the issue of leaving Israel to the wolves.

If every country had a presence in every country where they had interests the world would be a mess. China and Russia have interests there, they don't have a military presence. That presence leads to resentment. Why wouldn't it. How would the US public react to armed forces from another country parked in their back yard? Especially forces that were ideologically, politically and religiously different from your own? Do you think the likes of Gunny, CSM and Pale would sit on their tushes singing Kumbya?

As for Israel, they did ok in 1948, 56, 67 and 73 and they have nukes. Israel is not America's problem.