We Have the Right to Assemble and Freedom of Religion - Unlawful Arrest of Preacher

[Desperado]

Governor Ron DeSantis gedt it.. does not forbid church services.

 

[HappyJoy]

Why should those rights supersede others rights to life?

Mainly because the premise that allowing people to exercise their explicitly-asserted First Amendment rights violates anyone else's right to life is a flat-out lie, and those of you telling it know damn well that you are lying.

Nope, it's not a lie. Congregating in large numbers increasing the spread of COVID-19. Not just among church-goers, but among those with whom they come in contact. That selfishly puts others lives in peril and unfortunately for some, brutally strips away their right to life.

Your pathetically weak excuse fails to justify placing the right to assemble above the right to life.

That is the legal/constitutional justification. There's no social need to ban snake handling, or even peyote use, if it's central to the exercise of religion, because no one besides the faithful are impacted. But the virus WILL WITHOUT ANY QUESTION spread outside of just the people assembling in some religious setting, because the faithful will not remain quarantined inside the locale of the religious setting.

So, if someone want to assert the regulation goes too far in banning the assembly altogether, they have to address how the exponential rise in sick people is not affected.

And in a totally selfish vein, those who continue to disregard the social distancing orders prolong this goddamned shutdown and the ever tightening stay-at-home orders that are completely fucking up our lives.

if all 50 states go into shelter in place mode, scientists are predicting that our best outcome will be 100,000 - 240,000,000 dead. that is the benchmark we hope to meet. but it's not looking like the troglodyte states are jumping on board; so the toll might be higher. i hope & pray (in my house where i know god can hear me) that scientific models have it wrong.

But what about the millions that die afterwards from the Super-Depression that ensues?

You're right. Let's open up for business now. You think the virus is going away and the economy comes screaming back? You're not going to have an economy until this is under control.

If this last for a long time, we still won't have an economy. Right now, a lot of businesses , a lot of people are really struggling. I'm not personally. But those in retail trade, in hospitality, transportation, restaurants, pimpery and prostitution, are all being ruined and reduced to utter destitution.

I get that but you can't have an economy during wildly out of control pandemic. It's just not going to happen so we have no choice but to take care of one issue to a point where it is manageable and then go after the second otherwise neither gets fixed.

Get ready to starve, dumbass. Me? I can eat whatever. You? You're in for a rude awakening.

I'm not going hungry anytime soon. I can wait this out for years if need be.

Suure, buckwheat. With what? No guns?

I live in Arizona, who said anything about no guns?

What you gonna eat in Arizona? Cactus? Snakes?
Coyote? Don't eat Ms. Coyote, pls.
Aside from the cannibalism factor, I've grown rather fond over the years. That last unwarranted ban notwithstanding.

Oh, so you don't really know much about Arizona then.

Can't say I do. If you want info about FL, I'm your man.
I know there's no fishing in Arizona. Not like here, anyways.

Are you claiming you can catch Mackeral in Arizona?

There's probably not fishing here like there is where you are, but there's certainly fishing. Lack of mackeral doesn't mean lack of fishing.

Do you get King Mackrel?

I have no clue what kinds of fish can be caught in Arizona, because I've never been a fan of fishing. But I know a lot of people who are, so I know it is possible to do. There certainly are natural waterways in which fish live, and there are manmade lakes that are kept stocked.

Yeah, but what about the mackrel? Throw a bone to W3 and Mary, they have a point to prove.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So show me where your religion requires you to congregate in a building with as many other people as can fit in that building…

1. That's not what I said.
   
   
2. I don't have to account to you for what my religion does or does not require. Nor does anyone else. It's none of your damn business.

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

I think that's the point: the "congregating in large masses" isn't actually a part of the religious belief at all. It's simply a preferred habit.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bob what they are saying is that if you go to church then you are infringing on their right to remain Corona free and there is no such right .

Nope. None of us think we have a right to be free of the virus, because it's impossible to get Nature to comply with, or even notice, such things as rights.

We're just saying that we have a right not to be needlessly and recklessly put in increased danger by other people.

 

[Pogo]

Bob what they are saying is that if you go to church then you are infringing on their right to remain Corona free and there is no such right .

Nope. None of us think we have a right to be free of the virus, because it's impossible to get Nature to comply with, or even notice, such things as rights.

We're just saying that we have a right not to be needlessly and recklessly put in increased danger by other people.

Exactly. We also have the right not to have the Stupids putting even more burden on the resources we have for the rest of us who DID take the proper precautions, just because they reserved the right to be morons.

Hey if these idiots want to lock themselves in a sealed vault for the duration so that the rest of us don't have to be infected by them, let 'em go for it. See how they like that.

We're only as solid as our weakest link, and here's a whole group clamoring to be identified as just that.

 

[HappyJoy]

So show me where your religion requires you to congregate in a building with as many other people as can fit in that building…

1. That's not what I said.
   
   
2. I don't have to account to you for what my religion does or does not require. Nor does anyone else. It's none of your damn business.

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

I think that's the point: the "congregating in large masses" isn't actually a part of the religious belief at all. It's simply a preferred habit.

Let me throw this out. What if your religion specifically states that you have to practice with a group of strangers no more than 2 ft apart?

Do the religious tenets really matter?

 

[Pogo]

So show me where your religion requires you to congregate in a building with as many other people as can fit in that building…

1. That's not what I said.
   
   
2. I don't have to account to you for what my religion does or does not require. Nor does anyone else. It's none of your damn business.

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

I think that's the point: the "congregating in large masses" isn't actually a part of the religious belief at all. It's simply a preferred habit.

Let me throw this out. What if your religion specifically states that you have to practice with a group of strangers no more than 2 ft apart?

Do the religious tenets really matter?

Or for that matter, what if your "religion" required human sacrifice.
Not much difference here.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

You admit that I do not need to justify my religion, and then immediately follow that up with a demand that I justify my religion.

 

[HappyJoy]

[

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

You admit that I do not need to justify my religion, and then immediately follow that up with a demand that I justify my religion.

No. If the tenets of your religion endanger others then yeah, you kind of have to knock it off.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

You admit that I do not need to justify my religion, and then immediately follow that up with a demand that I justify my religion.

I didn't ask you to justify anything. That would imply that I expected to give my approval or disapproval of your beliefs, and that isn't the case.

I just asked you a question. If I asked you, "Does your church believe in immersion baptism?" would that be expecting you to justify something, or merely expressing curiosity? Is there a reason why you're reluctant to tell people what you believe?

 

[WEATHER53]

Bob what they are saying is that if you go to church then you are infringing on their right to remain Corona free and there is no such right .

Nope. None of us think we have a right to be free of the virus, because it's impossible to get Nature to comply with, or even notice, such things as rights.

We're just saying that we have a right not to be needlessly and recklessly put in increased danger by other people.

Your imposition of needless and reckless is a value judgement solely inclined to benefit you.

 

[WEATHER53]

[

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

You admit that I do not need to justify my religion, and then immediately follow that up with a demand that I justify my religion.

No. If the tenets of your religion endanger others then yeah, you kind of have to knock it off.

You are still espousing that you have a right to impose restrictions on others in order to best preclude yourself from catching something. There is no such right, there is the right to assemble and/or worship.

 

[Cecilie1200]

[

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

You admit that I do not need to justify my religion, and then immediately follow that up with a demand that I justify my religion.

No. If the tenets of your religion endanger others then yeah, you kind of have to knock it off.

Well, it's a fact that we do restrict practices related to other faiths where they come into conflict with certain laws. Female circumcision is very important to certain sects in Islam, as I understand it, and it's still illegal in this country. The Mormon Church had to give up polygamy. Religions that practice animal sacrifice are restricted in what they can sacrifice, where, and what facilities they have to have for sanitation, if I recall correctly.

And all of those things are central tenets to their beliefs and the practices of it; I don't know of any church which believes that you're committing a sin by not meeting in a big group, and I note with interest that none of the defenders of "Do anything you want cloaked in religious freedom!" have yet to tell me I'm wrong about that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bob what they are saying is that if you go to church then you are infringing on their right to remain Corona free and there is no such right .

Nope. None of us think we have a right to be free of the virus, because it's impossible to get Nature to comply with, or even notice, such things as rights.

We're just saying that we have a right not to be needlessly and recklessly put in increased danger by other people.

Your imposition of needless and reckless is a value judgement solely inclined to benefit you.

You say that as though it's some damning criticism, rather than a pretty standard working definition of anything that becomes law.

Also, it's a value judgement supported by the best scientific data currently available, so there's that.

 

[HappyJoy]

[

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

You admit that I do not need to justify my religion, and then immediately follow that up with a demand that I justify my religion.

No. If the tenets of your religion endanger others then yeah, you kind of have to knock it off.

Well, it's a fact that we do restrict practices related to other faiths where they come into conflict with certain laws. Female circumcision is very important to certain sects in Islam, as I understand it, and it's still illegal in this country. The Mormon Church had to give up polygamy. Religions that practice animal sacrifice are restricted in what they can sacrifice, where, and what facilities they have to have for sanitation, if I recall correctly.

And all of those things are central tenets to their beliefs and the practices of it; I don't know of any church which believes that you're committing a sin by not meeting in a big group, and I note with interest that none of the defenders of "Do anything you want cloaked in religious freedom!" have yet to tell me I'm wrong about that.

I have to dumb it down for them. They're selfish fucking idiots.

 

[Cecilie1200]

[

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

You admit that I do not need to justify my religion, and then immediately follow that up with a demand that I justify my religion.

No. If the tenets of your religion endanger others then yeah, you kind of have to knock it off.

You are still espousing that you have a right to impose restrictions on others in order to best preclude yourself from catching something. There is no such right, there is the right to assemble and/or worship.

So your contention is that there is no right whatsoever to be reasonably free of harm from the behavior of others? Really? Exactly what is the purpose of government? To stand by and nod approvingly while you exercise your freedoms all over other people's lives?

 

[Cecilie1200]

[

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

You admit that I do not need to justify my religion, and then immediately follow that up with a demand that I justify my religion.

No. If the tenets of your religion endanger others then yeah, you kind of have to knock it off.

Well, it's a fact that we do restrict practices related to other faiths where they come into conflict with certain laws. Female circumcision is very important to certain sects in Islam, as I understand it, and it's still illegal in this country. The Mormon Church had to give up polygamy. Religions that practice animal sacrifice are restricted in what they can sacrifice, where, and what facilities they have to have for sanitation, if I recall correctly.

And all of those things are central tenets to their beliefs and the practices of it; I don't know of any church which believes that you're committing a sin by not meeting in a big group, and I note with interest that none of the defenders of "Do anything you want cloaked in religious freedom!" have yet to tell me I'm wrong about that.

I have to dumb it down for them. They're selfish fucking idiots.

You should know by now that I dumb nothing down for anyone. I expect people to pull themselves up to my level of reason, or wallow in the anguish of being shown to be emotion-driven fools. Whichever.

 

[HappyJoy]

[

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

You admit that I do not need to justify my religion, and then immediately follow that up with a demand that I justify my religion.

No. If the tenets of your religion endanger others then yeah, you kind of have to knock it off.

You are still espousing that you have a right to impose restrictions on others in order to best preclude yourself from catching something. There is no such right, there is the right to assemble and/or worship.

Yeah, I don't think religious practices supersede the personal safety of others.

 

[HappyJoy]

[

Certainly you do not have to justify your religion to anyone, but is congregating in large groups actually an essential tenet of your faith and the practices thereof? Would it actually be a sin to practice your faith in smaller groups or via Internet?

You admit that I do not need to justify my religion, and then immediately follow that up with a demand that I justify my religion.

No. If the tenets of your religion endanger others then yeah, you kind of have to knock it off.

Well, it's a fact that we do restrict practices related to other faiths where they come into conflict with certain laws. Female circumcision is very important to certain sects in Islam, as I understand it, and it's still illegal in this country. The Mormon Church had to give up polygamy. Religions that practice animal sacrifice are restricted in what they can sacrifice, where, and what facilities they have to have for sanitation, if I recall correctly.

And all of those things are central tenets to their beliefs and the practices of it; I don't know of any church which believes that you're committing a sin by not meeting in a big group, and I note with interest that none of the defenders of "Do anything you want cloaked in religious freedom!" have yet to tell me I'm wrong about that.

I have to dumb it down for them. They're selfish fucking idiots.

You should know by now that I dumb nothing down for anyone. I expect people to pull themselves up to my level of reason, or wallow in the anguish of being shown to be emotion-driven fools. Whichever.

Honestly I don't know that one way or another. I do know that when talking to mental midgets you have to sometimes stoop.

 

[Leo123]

Widespread testing of everyone could preclude the problem of gatherings. I hope it happens