Was the Columbus, OH., police officer justified shooting the knife wielding girl? (poll)

[JustAGuy1]

She is where she belongs, in the ground with Michael Brown.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Amost certainly NO.

A more proficient police officer would have been able to remedy the situation so that it didn't result in death.

Death was the outcome and that can never be seen as a successful handling of the situation.

Once again it simply boils down to bad policing that's due to a lack of police concern for black lives.

It would be a near certainty that had the knife wielder been a white child and the intended victim a black child, the outcome would have been different and more desirable.

Americans can't understand this and so the fight to reform their police will be long, which will most likely result in police pushing the envelope on their right to kill to even greater heights.

This is idiotic. The girl was a second away from stabbing another girl. It's called saving a life. The police officer acted correctly, and luckily he acted he quickly.

 

[bripat9643]

The only thing I have a problem with is always, no matter the reason, shooting to kill....why can't cops be trained to shoot to maime in certain cases like with an attacker yielding a knife?

Actually, police are trained to aim for center mass. I don't believe they are shooting to kill, they are shooting to stop the target. Center mass being the place where a lot of vital organs are located.

You'd really have a hard time trying to shoot to maim. Trying to shoot for the legs or arms is difficult. You'd end up missing a lot of shots.

I'm sure those with more knowledge will correct me, but I'm thinking this is accurate.

He shot her FOUR TIMES, center mass. 4 shots...not 1 or even twice, or even thrice, but 4 shots?? Why was that necessary?

I don't know. That will be answered in the coming weeks.

I don't necessarily want him to get in trouble....he likely was following procedure or training...

But it is something that should be discussed, out in the open, imo. Is this what we want our law enforcement to continue to do? Is there a way to make it better, so cops are still safe, and fewer perps are killed before their trial and convictions? Is their training the right training, making a traffic ticket, or warrant being served or 20 $ counterfeit used, or a knife wielding person vs a gun pointing at you person, all the same....shoot to kill????

That's just hard to stomach for me......

I don't know. He had seconds to read the situation and a split second to make a decision.

Again, officers are not trying to shoot to kill, they are shooting to stop. That's why you don't see head shots from police. One, because it's harder to hit and also, their goal is not to kill, but to stop the threat.

I know, you are right, it was fast, seconds at most.... hindsight is 20/20 as the saying goes...

I just can't stand to see a person killed, even a bad guy.... and especially a good cop killed.

But it still seems different than most policing, say... 40 to 50 years ago....seemed like, or at least the way cops were portrayed, that they were more willing to put some muscle in to the job, vs just pulling a trigger....

Of course, there was no cell phone video at everyone's finger tips back then, and I could have been living in a fairy tale LaLa land....

That was before the left got woke and decided that enforcing the law was racist.

 

[2aguy]

Wow.....that was one of the dumbest posts of the week.......

The 16 year old was in mid swing when he shot her...you idiot.....

What lack of concern for black lives? None of the statistics on policing actually show this.........blacks in America are 15% of the population but make up over 50% of all violent crime....and the victims of that crime are other blacks, just like in this attempted murder.....

Over 40 million police interactions with citizens.....few deaths, and of those deaths, the criminals are the ones escalating to the point where lethal force has to be used....you moron.

Death was the outcome and that can never be seen as a successful handling of the situation by police.
[/QUOTE]


A life saved is the measure, you idiot.


And as Andrew Klavan pointed out on his podcast on friday....blacks are 15% of the population.....black men are only 7% of the population but account for that 50% of murder....and they are also the highest number of victims of black killers...

He also pointed out that going into the 1960s, Blacks in America were rocketing into the middle class and their fatherless homes percentage were 25%......today, it is now over 75%...that is why there is the crime and violence in black communities and why there are so many black men murdered by black men......

And that 75% is owed to the democrat party and their policies....

 

[Donald H]

Wow.....that was one of the dumbest posts of the week.......

The 16 year old was in mid swing when he shot her...you idiot.....

What lack of concern for black lives? None of the statistics on policing actually show this.........blacks in America are 15% of the population but make up over 50% of all violent crime....and the victims of that crime are other blacks, just like in this attempted murder.....

Over 40 million police interactions with citizens.....few deaths, and of those deaths, the criminals are the ones escalating to the point where lethal force has to be used....you moron.

Death was the outcome and that can never be seen as a successful handling of the situation by police.

A life saved is the measure, you idiot.


And as Andrew Klavan pointed out on his podcast on friday....blacks are 15% of the population.....black men are only 7% of the population but account for that 50% of murder....and they are also the highest number of victims of black killers...

He also pointed out that going into the 1960s, Blacks in America were rocketing into the middle class and their fatherless homes percentage were 25%......today, it is now over 75%...that is why there is the crime and violence in black communities and why there are so many black men murdered by black men......

And that 75% is owed to the democrat party and their policies....
[/QUOTE]

I think you just said something meaningful, but I might have misinterpreted your meaning.

The rest is just you voicing your frustration over America's race problem. None of which I would even attempt to rebut without first researching it thoroughly. I won't be doing that here because it's not speaking 'directly' to the issue. It's a somewhat jilted explanation of why there's an issue.

 

[Donald H]

Amost certainly NO.

A more proficient police officer would have been able to remedy the situation so that it didn't result in death.

Death was the outcome and that can never be seen as a successful handling of the situation.

Once again it simply boils down to bad policing that's due to a lack of police concern for black lives.

It would be a near certainty that had the knife wielder been a white child and the intended victim a black child, the outcome would have been different and more desirable.

Americans can't understand this and so the fight to reform their police will be long, which will most likely result in police pushing the envelope on their right to kill to even greater heights.

This is idiotic. The girl was a second away from stabbing another girl. It's called saving a life. The police officer acted correctly, and luckily he acted he quickly.

In this instance a life may or may not have been saved.
It's more complicated than just that.

The real issue is of course the high incidence of police attending a crime scene or just a 'potential' crime scene and it ending in death. That's clearly saying that America's policing is failing.

I don't recognize you name mike so maybe I haven't talked to you before?

I'll offer this as an attempt at having a rational conversation.

btw, I'm a Canadian.

 

[2aguy]

Amost certainly NO.

A more proficient police officer would have been able to remedy the situation so that it didn't result in death.

Death was the outcome and that can never be seen as a successful handling of the situation.

Once again it simply boils down to bad policing that's due to a lack of police concern for black lives.

It would be a near certainty that had the knife wielder been a white child and the intended victim a black child, the outcome would have been different and more desirable.

Americans can't understand this and so the fight to reform their police will be long, which will most likely result in police pushing the envelope on their right to kill to even greater heights.

This is idiotic. The girl was a second away from stabbing another girl. It's called saving a life. The police officer acted correctly, and luckily he acted he quickly.

In this instance a life may or may not have been saved.
It's more complicated than just that.

The real issue is of course the high incidence of police attending a crime scene or just a 'potential' crime scene and it ending in death. That's clearly saying that America's policing is failing.

I don't recognize you name mike so maybe I haven't talked to you before?

I'll offer this as an attempt at having a rational conversation.

btw, I'm a Canadian.

Policing isn't failing....as Andrew Klavan pointed out on Friday, the cops are the last guys in the line between the societies problems and the citizen....they don't make the policies that destroy families, create fatherless homes, allow repeat, violent criminals to get out of jail over and over again...

They simply deal with the end result....violent, combative assholes who know that if they fight the police, they can not only sue, but can now win big money .......

 

[PatriotJohn888]

Police don't need to change. People need to change. Plain and simple. liberal policies that have been enacted in the last few decades are to blame for much of the entitled and irresponsible behavior we see these days. And not just by poor black communities. Penalties for crime need to be harsh and justice needs to be swift. Death penalties need to increase as well.

 

[Donald H]

He also pointed out that going into the 1960s, Blacks in America were rocketing into the middle class and their fatherless homes percentage were 25%......today, it is now over 75%...that is why there is the crime and violence in black communities and why there are so many black men murdered by black men......

And that 75% is owed to the democrat party and their policies....

All of that could be true and so I'll accept it without disputing it.
Except the last sentence which I won't accept.

At the root of the problem, and all of the problems for that matter, is America's failing capitalism of greed. The near revolution against government provided the proof of that.

You are sometimes useful for making my point but now you're of no use anymore.

 

[Donald H]

Police don't need to change. People need to change. Plain and simple. liberal policies that have been enacted in the last few decades are to blame for much of the entitled and irresponsible behavior we see these days. And not just by poor black communities. Penalties for crime need to be harsh and justice needs to be swift. Death penalties need to increase as well.

I think there's some truth in your statement that people need to change, because America has come so close to crisis with the intended revolution against government. ( albeit a Mickey Mouse fantasy revolution)

America's justice system and it's penal system are failing and are fast approaching complete breakdown of the system.

I have some different ideas on the reasons why. Those reasons are mostly about America's reliance on punitive punishment as opposed to rehabilitation.

I won't expand on that any further until you or some others demonstrate that they are capable of an open mind.

Fwiw, nothing I have to say on the topic is going to be biased wither D or R, left or right. It's confined to criticism of America's system. We have already started with common ground on that question.

 

[PatriotJohn888]

I'm not really worried about whether or not that you are satisfied that I have an open mind.
1st, there was no intended revolution. Voices wanted to be heard and some people took it a bit too far. Rioting is the voice of the unheard, or so I've been told.

The penal system in America started becoming less effective when death sentencing and methods of execution were beginning to see widespread criticism. Liberals decried the treatment of killers and child molesters and soon the treatment of those individuals became nearly the same as the treatment of a bank robber. If you murder someone in cold blood, it is common these days that you won't get as much prison time as some who are convicted of drug crimes. Prison isnt terrible hell like it used to be. Its nor a deterrent at all for those desperate individuals who decide that their wants are more important than others.

 

[Donald H]

I'm not really worried about whether or not that you are satisfied that I have an open mind.
1st, there was no intended revolution. Voices wanted to be heard and some people took it a bit too far. Rioting is the voice of the unheard, or so I've been told.

Agreed, and that's why I referred to it as a fantasy revolution. However, we can agree that it was a demonstration of the people's disrest.

The penal system in America started becoming less effective when death sentencing and methods of execution were beginning to see widespread criticism. Liberals decried the treatment of killers and child molesters and soon the treatment of those individuals became nearly the same as the treatment of a bank robber. If you murder someone in cold blood, it is common these days that you won't get as much prison time as some who are convicted of drug crimes. Prison isnt terrible hell like it used to be. Its nor a deterrent at all for those desperate individuals who decide that their wants are more important than others.

You're not showing any indication that you are capable of a discussion and the reason is because you are obsessing on revenge and punitive punishment of offenders. That's failure.

 

[kyzr]

I'm not really worried about whether or not that you are satisfied that I have an open mind.
1st, there was no intended revolution. Voices wanted to be heard and some people took it a bit too far. Rioting is the voice of the unheard, or so I've been told.

Agreed, and that's why I referred to it as a fantasy revolution. However, we can agree that it was a demonstration of the people's disrest.

The penal system in America started becoming less effective when death sentencing and methods of execution were beginning to see widespread criticism. Liberals decried the treatment of killers and child molesters and soon the treatment of those individuals became nearly the same as the treatment of a bank robber. If you murder someone in cold blood, it is common these days that you won't get as much prison time as some who are convicted of drug crimes. Prison isnt terrible hell like it used to be. Its nor a deterrent at all for those desperate individuals who decide that their wants are more important than others.

You're not showing any indication that you are capable of a discussion and the reason is because you are obsessing on revenge and punitive punishment of offenders. That's failure.

"Failure" is kids using knives on other kids, like in Ohio, or guns on other kids, like in Chicago.
If kids use guns or knives, then the cops can and should kill them as a deterrent.
Whose fault is it when kids use knives and guns? Ans: not ours or the cops.

 

[PatriotJohn888]

I'm not really worried about whether or not that you are satisfied that I have an open mind.
1st, there was no intended revolution. Voices wanted to be heard and some people took it a bit too far. Rioting is the voice of the unheard, or so I've been told.

Agreed, and that's why I referred to it as a fantasy revolution. However, we can agree that it was a demonstration of the people's disrest.

The penal system in America started becoming less effective when death sentencing and methods of execution were beginning to see widespread criticism. Liberals decried the treatment of killers and child molesters and soon the treatment of those individuals became nearly the same as the treatment of a bank robber. If you murder someone in cold blood, it is common these days that you won't get as much prison time as some who are convicted of drug crimes. Prison isnt terrible hell like it used to be. Its nor a deterrent at all for those desperate individuals who decide that their wants are more important than others.

You're not showing any indication that you are capable of a discussion and the reason is because you are obsessing on revenge and punitive punishment of offenders. That's failure.

"You're not showing any indication that you are capable of a discussion" Quite sanctimonious aren't you?

I don't think I will be capable of having intelligent discourse with you until perhaps you learn the proper usage of the word punitive. Punitive means to inflict punishment, So "punitive punishment" would imply that i want to inflict punishing punishment.

Did you have a disagreement with the substance of my argument that liberal policies reduced the punitive measures that society could take against criminals and therefore the deterrent to commit crime is less than in years past?

 

[Donald H]

I'm not really worried about whether or not that you are satisfied that I have an open mind.
1st, there was no intended revolution. Voices wanted to be heard and some people took it a bit too far. Rioting is the voice of the unheard, or so I've been told.

Agreed, and that's why I referred to it as a fantasy revolution. However, we can agree that it was a demonstration of the people's disrest.

The penal system in America started becoming less effective when death sentencing and methods of execution were beginning to see widespread criticism. Liberals decried the treatment of killers and child molesters and soon the treatment of those individuals became nearly the same as the treatment of a bank robber. If you murder someone in cold blood, it is common these days that you won't get as much prison time as some who are convicted of drug crimes. Prison isnt terrible hell like it used to be. Its nor a deterrent at all for those desperate individuals who decide that their wants are more important than others.

You're not showing any indication that you are capable of a discussion and the reason is because you are obsessing on revenge and punitive punishment of offenders. That's failure.

"You're not showing any indication that you are capable of a discussion" Quite sanctimonious aren't you?

I don't think I will be capable of having intelligent discourse with you until perhaps you learn the proper usage of the word punitive. Punitive means to inflict punishment, So "punitive punishment" would imply that i want to inflict punishing punishment.

Did you have a disagreement with the substance of my argument that liberal policies reduced the punitive measures that society could take against criminals and therefore the deterrent to commit crime is less than in years past?

Wrong. Punitive is an adjective and you've outsmarted yourself. But let's call it punitive measures for the sake of the grammar nazis.

And back on topic, the police officer's job is to conclude such incidences so that death is avoided. for all concerned. It's no surprise that's of no importance to American racists.

DEATH by gun IS America.

 

[Donald H]

"Failure" is kids using knives on other kids, like in Ohio, or guns on other kids, like in Chicago.
If kids use guns or knives, then the cops can and should kill them as a deterrent.
Whose fault is it when kids use knives and guns? Ans: not ours or the cops.

Yeah, failure is American kids using knives (or guns) on other American kids, like in ...........................

And the cops should come and kill as many American kids as possible as a deterrent.

When American kids use knives and guns it's those American kids' fault.

Not Canada's or Canadian cops. We value human lives but we're all commies and far less likely to be Christians.

I do understand the reason for your anger and frustration and so I make no attempt to disagree with your analysis of the situation with America's children. Dead ones won't become killers in foreign lands.

 

[ding]

He also pointed out that going into the 1960s, Blacks in America were rocketing into the middle class and their fatherless homes percentage were 25%......today, it is now over 75%...that is why there is the crime and violence in black communities and why there are so many black men murdered by black men......

And that 75% is owed to the democrat party and their policies....

All of that could be true and so I'll accept it without disputing it.
Except the last sentence which I won't accept.

At the root of the problem, and all of the problems for that matter, is America's failing capitalism of greed. The near revolution against government provided the proof of that.

You are sometimes useful for making my point but now you're of no use anymore.

That last statement is actually true. But the root cause of America's race problem began under British rule when laws banning interracial marriage were introduced in the late 17th century in the slave-holding colonies of Virginia (1691) and Maryland (1692) and subsequently spread to the other colonies and states where slavery did not exist. No where else in the world did this happen. Everywhere else the races were allowed to mix and become assimilated in their culture.

The intention of the founders was that slavery would perish. They wrote into the constitution the earliest date the importation could be abolished, they abolished the importation at the earliest date and they wrote laws that halted the expansion of slavery. It wasn't until the late 1820's when the Democratic Party began to reverse the founders intentions and expanded slavery. You should know the rest of their bad deeds, I would hope. If not let me know and I'll fill you in on the rest.

 

[2aguy]

He also pointed out that going into the 1960s, Blacks in America were rocketing into the middle class and their fatherless homes percentage were 25%......today, it is now over 75%...that is why there is the crime and violence in black communities and why there are so many black men murdered by black men......

And that 75% is owed to the democrat party and their policies....

All of that could be true and so I'll accept it without disputing it.
Except the last sentence which I won't accept.

At the root of the problem, and all of the problems for that matter, is America's failing capitalism of greed. The near revolution against government provided the proof of that.

You are sometimes useful for making my point but now you're of no use anymore.

That last statement is actually true. But the root cause of America's race problem began under British rule when laws banning interracial marriage were introduced in the late 17th century in the slave-holding colonies of Virginia (1691) and Maryland (1692) and subsequently spread to the other colonies and states where slavery did not exist. No where else in the world did this happen. Everywhere else the races were allowed to mix and become assimilated in their culture.

The intention of the founders was that slavery would perish. They wrote into the constitution the earliest date the importation could be abolished, they abolished the importation at the earliest date and they wrote laws that halted the expansion of slavery. It wasn't until the late 1820's when the Democratic Party began to reverse the founders intentions and expanded slavery. You should know the rest of their bad deeds, I would hope. If not let me know and I'll fill you in on the rest.

Yep....the democrat party was founded by slave owners and through it's whole history racism has been its tool..........

 

[ding]

He also pointed out that going into the 1960s, Blacks in America were rocketing into the middle class and their fatherless homes percentage were 25%......today, it is now over 75%...that is why there is the crime and violence in black communities and why there are so many black men murdered by black men......

And that 75% is owed to the democrat party and their policies....

All of that could be true and so I'll accept it without disputing it.
Except the last sentence which I won't accept.

At the root of the problem, and all of the problems for that matter, is America's failing capitalism of greed. The near revolution against government provided the proof of that.

You are sometimes useful for making my point but now you're of no use anymore.

That last statement is actually true. But the root cause of America's race problem began under British rule when laws banning interracial marriage were introduced in the late 17th century in the slave-holding colonies of Virginia (1691) and Maryland (1692) and subsequently spread to the other colonies and states where slavery did not exist. No where else in the world did this happen. Everywhere else the races were allowed to mix and become assimilated in their culture.

The intention of the founders was that slavery would perish. They wrote into the constitution the earliest date the importation could be abolished, they abolished the importation at the earliest date and they wrote laws that halted the expansion of slavery. It wasn't until the late 1820's when the Democratic Party began to reverse the founders intentions and expanded slavery. You should know the rest of their bad deeds, I would hope. If not let me know and I'll fill you in on the rest.

Yep....the democrat party was founded by slave owners and through it's whole history racism has been its tool..........

Yep and that fool is either ignorant or apathetic about it. Probably both.

 

[PatriotJohn888]

Wrong. Punitive is an adjective and you've outsmarted yourself. But let's call it punitive measures for the sake of the grammar nazis.

What a goofball. Canadian for sure.