Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

[LittleNipper]

Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Most people see Judas as a traitor in the myth of the crucifixion. Few recognize that Jesus was asking his most trusted disciple, Judas, to turn him over to the Jews and Pilate.

Most are unaware of the meaning of the sop that Jesus gave to Judas at the last supper. Without knowing the definition and meaning of that word, it is not surprising that most think of Judas as they do. The completely wrong way.

A sop is basically a gift or conciliatory bribe, something that seals a deal. That is what Jesus gave Judas, his most trusted disciple. We know he was Jesus’ favorite because he was Jesus’ banker.

Dictionary reference for sop.
Something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc.
A conciliatory gift or bribe.

Without the betrayal, Jesus would not have died for us, as Yahweh had planned, and scriptures say that Judas also had no choice as that would have derailed god’s plan.

If any blame for Jesus’ death is to be given, it must be to Yahweh, whose plan, scriptures say must come to pass. Meaning that Yahweh would have to control all the players including Judas.

Scriptures show Jesus persuading Judas to do what he would not ordinarily have thought of doing.

Judas believed that Jesus was the messiah who was to rise again to lead the Jews. This lie imposed by Yahweh.

Was Judas a good man doing Jesus’ will or was he a traitor?

Regards
DL

why is there even a question, He is a traitor, sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver, So despised have you ever know a person named Judas?

Did Jesus want to test the savior myth?

Yes he did.

If Judas had not done as Jesus bid him do, how would Jesus have tested the myth?

Regards
DL

Jesus was tried by Satan, and rebuffed Satan's attempts at enticing Jesus. Notice Satan's use of vanity. Jesus is the Christ. There was no need of testing that.

 

[bottlecap]

Judas was a thief, a cheat, and a liar.

Hm... today, he's still the ultimate traitor, but how did he end up being the treasurer and Apostle?

It seems his life and death has take a life of its own.

Judas Iscariot | Biography, Last Supper, & Facts

Judas Iscariot was one of the Twelve Apostles, notorious for betraying Jesus. Judas’s surname is more probably a corruption of the Latin sicarius (“murderer” or “assassin”) than an indication of family origin, suggesting that he would have belonged to the Sicarii, the most radical Jewish group,

www.britannica.com

Judas was very well-respected by the other Apostles and had a reputation for caring about the poor.
John 13 KJV

27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.

29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.

 

[ESay]

Jesus was tried by Satan, and rebuffed Satan's attempts at enticing Jesus

According to Christian beliefs, Jesus is God himself. How can he be tried then?

 

[bottlecap]

Jesus was tried by Satan, and rebuffed Satan's attempts at enticing Jesus

According to Christian beliefs, Jesus is God himself. How can he be tried then?

GREAT QUESTION....This is indeed a challenge for the Christian faithful. There are certainly versus in the Bible that equate the Father and Son, but there are also many versus that put the Son as secondary to the Father.

For myself, I am playing it safe in that I know I'm a sinner needing Grace, with Grace being made available because of Jesus sacrifice. As far as the relationship between the Father and Son is concerned, it is a Family matter that does not concern me.

 

[ESay]

Actually, it is interesting what really happened in the last supper and why it was Juda who was chosen at a role of scapegoat. We won't know the truth, though, because too much time has passed and any sources (except of canonical) haven't survived to our days, it seems. Anyway, the canonical Christian version contradicts the basic logic and hardly shows the real things.

 

[ESay]

Jesus was tried by Satan, and rebuffed Satan's attempts at enticing Jesus

According to Christian beliefs, Jesus is God himself. How can he be tried then?

GREAT QUESTION....This is indeed a challenge for the Christian faithful. There are certainly versus in the Bible that equate the Father and Son, but there are also many versus that put the Son as secondary to the Father.

For myself, I am playing it safe in that I know I'm a sinner needing Grace, with Grace being made available because of Jesus sacrifice. As far as the relationship between the Father and Son is concerned, it is a Family matter that does not concern me.

Again, Jesus' sacrifice to who? Sacrifice is proposed to someone by somebody else. You can't offer sacrifice to yourself.

I remember that one of great Christian 'fathers' once said - I believe because it is absurd. I think it is all Christian doctrine in a nutshell.

Yes, I understand, that human logic and mind are far from perfect and aren't able to comprehend everything. But the mind is one of the greatest gifts to humankind, and it was given to us for a purpose. And one of this is to comprehend God (as far as our limits are, of course).

And throwing away this gift is virtually a 'sin' before God. Of course, our mind is useless in such questions as to why God created our universe or what happens after our earthly life. But throwing away it in the questions in which a logic of a student should be applied? Well...

 

[bottlecap]

The Christian story permeates the Old Testament as much as the New Testament. The basic plan of salvation is, in my opinion, best encapsulated in the 53rd chapter of Isiah I will let the Bible speak for itself:


1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

 

[bottlecap]

The Christian story permeates the Old Testament as much as the New Testament. The basic plan of salvation is, in my opinion, best encapsulated in the 53rd chapter of Isaiah I will let the Bible speak for itself:


1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[Picaro]

Somewhere back there somebody claimed 'Judas died twice!!!' or something similar; there are two separate Judas in the NT, for those in the Peanut Gallery who haven't read the NT all the way through, and as for the claim it was 'written by Romans n stuff', that is of course utter rubbish, as there are no anachronisms in it anywhere; textual analysis alone proves it is indeed written in the times it portrays, and by multiple writers, without any doubts at all.

Whether or not you're a believer, the books themselves are indeed legit. No scammers or con artists would waste their time on such a work, and we know the only common 'payoff' for the vast majority of disciples and Apostles was being put to death, and pretty soon after their ministries began, no 'payoff' ever rewarded them in this life. The much maligned Saul was a Pharisee himself, and a student of Gamaliel I, i.e. no idiot.

 

[ESay]

The Christian story permeates the Old Testament as much as the New Testament. The basic plan of salvation is, in my opinion, best encapsulated in the 53rd chapter of Isiah I will let the Bible speak for itself:


1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

And of course you think here is written about Jesus. In my opinion, this verse can well describe
a man Jesus, but hardly about God in flesh.

 

[bottlecap]

The Christian story permeates the Old Testament as much as the New Testament. The basic plan of salvation is, in my opinion, best encapsulated in the 53rd chapter of Isiah I will let the Bible speak for itself:


1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

And of course you think here is written about Jesus. In my opinion, this verse can well describe
a man Jesus, but hardly about God in flesh.

How better for a Supreme Powerful God to communicate to a created species then having a representative for HIM to become a member of that species. Jesus non-human form is a subject to debate, but we know that when He appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, Paul was blinded by the intensity of Jesus presence.

Nevertheless, your point is well-taken in that there are many other cases in the Bible where Jesus, while Divine, is in a subordinate position to God the Father. For my part, I don't think I can, or need to, understand the relationship between the Father and the Son. The important thing to me is, as a sinner, to accept the GRACE offered by God in the versus I posted above from Isaiah.

 

[ESay]

better for a Supreme Powerful God to communicate to a created species then having a representative for HIM to become a member of that species. Jesus non-human form is a subject to debate, but we know that when He appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, Paul was blinded by the intensity of Jesus presence

A prophet. Why not? What couldn't a prophet do from what Jesus the 'son of God' did?

 

[bottlecap]

better for a Supreme Powerful God to communicate to a created species then having a representative for HIM to become a member of that species. Jesus non-human form is a subject to debate, but we know that when He appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, Paul was blinded by the intensity of Jesus presence

A prophet. Why not? What couldn't a prophet do from what Jesus the 'son of God' did?

Nope. Here is the CRUX of the Issue, The Old Testament is filled with THOUSANDS of Animal Sacrifices, in most cases for SINS. Sins of Commission OR Omission!

This was needed because of the limited redemptive nature of the blood of animals BUT it also was a foreshadowing of a Sacrifice which GOD HIMSELF would provide, a LAMB without blemish.

Because ALL men and women have a sinful nature, even prophets, there was no human even remotely close to paying for his/her own sins, let alone those of others.

So GOD intervened in the affairs of the human race, sending His own Divine Son to take a human form and be that Sacrifice!

John the Baptist, upon seeing Jesus..." Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

 

[ESay]

better for a Supreme Powerful God to communicate to a created species then having a representative for HIM to become a member of that species. Jesus non-human form is a subject to debate, but we know that when He appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, Paul was blinded by the intensity of Jesus presence

A prophet. Why not? What couldn't a prophet do from what Jesus the 'son of God' did?

Nope. Here is the CRUX of the Issue, The Old Testament is filled with THOUSANDS of Animal Sacrifices, in most cases for SINS. Sins of Commission OR Omission!

This was needed because of the limited redemptive nature of the blood of animals BUT it also was a foreshadowing of a Sacrifice which GOD HIMSELF would provide, a LAMB without blemish.

Because ALL men and women have a sinful nature, even prophets, there was no human even remotely close to paying for his/her own sins, let alone those of others.

So GOD intervened in the affairs of the human race, sending His own Divine Son to take a human form and be that Sacrifice!

John the Baptist, upon seeing Jesus..." Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

Yes, I have heard this - a lamb without blemish. But here several issues rise about this version.

First. According to the OT, sacrifices must take place in a particular place by particular people.

Second. The OT condemns human sacrifices.

Third. And this is most important. The reason for offering sacrifices. As far as I am aware, sacrifices per se dont make sense. I mean that if you are going to offer sacrifice for some 'sin', you should first confess about this in your heart, fixed the damages if caused, and only after that offer sacrifice as a final stage.

Nothing of this happened. Moreover, the Christian dogma turned the conception of a sacrifice upside down. Sacrifice is offered by that one who wants to purify oneself from a sin, but not the one who purifies.