VICTOR DAVIS HANSON: Kurdish, Syrian, and Turkish Ironies

[U2Edge]

Outrage met Donald Trump’s supposedly rash decision to pull back U.S. troops from possible confrontational zones between our Kurdish friends in Syria and Recep Erdogan’s expeditionary forces.

Turkey claims that it will punish the Syrian Kurds for a variety of supposed provocations, including aiding and abetting Kurdish terrorist separatists inside Turkey. But what they say they can so easily do and what they really can do inside Syria are, of course, two different things.

~~skip~~

Otherwise, our presence in the firing line could raise the specter that we’d either refuse our Article V (collective defense) commitments to Turkey that Erdogan might cynically invoke in a larger war in Syria, or we’d find ourselves actually killing Turks to save Kurds. Either of these scenarios is theoretically quite possible, and both would be far more injurious to the spirit and cohesion of the presently composed NATO alliance than asking Germany and its followers to pony up the contributions that they had long promised.

As I understand the present outrage, the logic goes like this: It is a sellout to leave the Kurds vulnerable to the Turks, and it undermines our noble promises and our credibility in a way that ignoring our ignoble, legal commitments to Turkey do not. That may be a legitimate assumption that we all would like to embrace, but it is not yet the policy of the United States.

~~skip~~

Any current critics calling for the use of American trip-wire soldiers to protect Kurds from the Turkish military — in the current stated mission to defeat ISIS and keep it defeated — should at least make the case that de facto fighting against Turkey means that it is therefore no longer a friend and should no longer be a NATO ally, and thus, in extremis, can be opposed militarily...

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ..

McConnel and the rest of the gopE in congress have been undermining Trump since before he was sworn in. They are no different then the dems. They just have the cowardly luxury of sitting back and letting the dems do the heavy lifting.

Turkey can't invoke article V (Collective defense) if its troops came into combat with U.S. forces in Syria. NATO countries can only invoke article V if member states legally recognized territory in Europe or North America is attacked.

The British were unable to invoke Article V in the 1982 Falklands War because the Falkland Islands(legally British territory) are not located in Europe or North America, but in the Southern Hemisphere near South America.

How and when you can invoke Article V is narrowly defined. Had the United States flown in Airborne Brigade from vicenza italy to north eastern Syria to help defend the Kurds and deter a Turkish invasion, any combat taking place in Syria would not allow Turkey or the United States to invoke Article V.

 

[gipper]

Truly amazing the uproar over moving out 50 soldiers. What a joke our government and media have become.

Sadly, too many Americans are easily duped.

Too many Americans see betrayal as a bad thing apparently. Trump sold the Kurds to Turkey. I am wondering what he thought was worth it.

We have the world’s largest military, by a country mile. Our criminal government can put boots on the ground anywhere in the world, in a moments notice. They can bomb any location they so wish, within minutes. Yet, you think this tiny troop movement is the end of the world.

How is this possible?

Where did the anti war Left go? It’s as if only neolibs and neocons run the world.

There are many scenarios that can arise from our sudden retreat from the fight against ISIS, none if them are good. The left is not anti-war, they are anti-stupid war.

Of course the left is pro-war and pro-stupid. Just like the right.

Time for a do over.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Truly amazing the uproar over moving out 50 soldiers. What a joke our government and media have become.

Sadly, too many Americans are easily duped.

Too many Americans see betrayal as a bad thing apparently. Trump sold the Kurds to Turkey. I am wondering what he thought was worth it.

We have the world’s largest military, by a country mile. Our criminal government can put boots on the ground anywhere in the world, in a moments notice. They can bomb any location they so wish, within minutes. Yet, you think this tiny troop movement is the end of the world.

How is this possible?

Where did the anti war Left go? It’s as if only neolibs and neocons run the world.

There are many scenarios that can arise from our sudden retreat from the fight against ISIS, none if them are good. The left is not anti-war, they are anti-stupid war.

Of course the left is pro-war and pro-stupid. Just like the right.

Time for a do over.

If they only knew what is really happening.

 

[occupied]

Truly amazing the uproar over moving out 50 soldiers. What a joke our government and media have become.

Sadly, too many Americans are easily duped.

Too many Americans see betrayal as a bad thing apparently. Trump sold the Kurds to Turkey. I am wondering what he thought was worth it.

We have the world’s largest military, by a country mile. Our criminal government can put boots on the ground anywhere in the world, in a moments notice. They can bomb any location they so wish, within minutes. Yet, you think this tiny troop movement is the end of the world.

How is this possible?

Where did the anti war Left go? It’s as if only neolibs and neocons run the world.

There are many scenarios that can arise from our sudden retreat from the fight against ISIS, none if them are good. The left is not anti-war, they are anti-stupid war.

Of course the left is pro-war and pro-stupid. Just like the right.

Time for a do over.

Trump is clueless on what comes next. Before too much more time passes this will become clear even to you.

 

[gipper]

Truly amazing the uproar over moving out 50 soldiers. What a joke our government and media have become.

Sadly, too many Americans are easily duped.

Too many Americans see betrayal as a bad thing apparently. Trump sold the Kurds to Turkey. I am wondering what he thought was worth it.

We have the world’s largest military, by a country mile. Our criminal government can put boots on the ground anywhere in the world, in a moments notice. They can bomb any location they so wish, within minutes. Yet, you think this tiny troop movement is the end of the world.

How is this possible?

Where did the anti war Left go? It’s as if only neolibs and neocons run the world.

There are many scenarios that can arise from our sudden retreat from the fight against ISIS, none if them are good. The left is not anti-war, they are anti-stupid war.

Of course the left is pro-war and pro-stupid. Just like the right.

Time for a do over.

Trump is clueless on what comes next. Before too much more time passes this will become clear even to you.

Must you repeat everything the DNCMSM tell you?

It gets old quickly. Try to come up with something original.

 

[occupied]

Too many Americans see betrayal as a bad thing apparently. Trump sold the Kurds to Turkey. I am wondering what he thought was worth it.

We have the world’s largest military, by a country mile. Our criminal government can put boots on the ground anywhere in the world, in a moments notice. They can bomb any location they so wish, within minutes. Yet, you think this tiny troop movement is the end of the world.

How is this possible?

Where did the anti war Left go? It’s as if only neolibs and neocons run the world.

There are many scenarios that can arise from our sudden retreat from the fight against ISIS, none if them are good. The left is not anti-war, they are anti-stupid war.

Of course the left is pro-war and pro-stupid. Just like the right.

Time for a do over.

Trump is clueless on what comes next. Before too much more time passes this will become clear even to you.

Must you repeat everything the DNCMSM tell you?

It gets old quickly. Try to come up with something original.

The right is scrambling to make this make sense. You can't do it, no one can do it because we do not know why Trump made such a reckless move. Until those answers arise just accept that you will have to defend the indefensible. Prepare yourself for the possibility Trump was blackmailed.

 

[gipper]

We have the world’s largest military, by a country mile. Our criminal government can put boots on the ground anywhere in the world, in a moments notice. They can bomb any location they so wish, within minutes. Yet, you think this tiny troop movement is the end of the world.

How is this possible?

Where did the anti war Left go? It’s as if only neolibs and neocons run the world.

There are many scenarios that can arise from our sudden retreat from the fight against ISIS, none if them are good. The left is not anti-war, they are anti-stupid war.

Of course the left is pro-war and pro-stupid. Just like the right.

Time for a do over.

Trump is clueless on what comes next. Before too much more time passes this will become clear even to you.

Must you repeat everything the DNCMSM tell you?

It gets old quickly. Try to come up with something original.

The right is scrambling to make this make sense. You can't do it, no one can do it because we do not know why Trump made such a reckless move. Until those answers arise just accept that you will have to defend the indefensible. Prepare yourself for the possibility Trump was blackmailed.

Reckless. LOL. Pulling out 50 soldiers is reckless.

What did you say when Ears bugged out of Iraq, removing far more troops? Oh I know. You said nothing because your media sources loved Ears unconditionally.

 

[occupied]

There are many scenarios that can arise from our sudden retreat from the fight against ISIS, none if them are good. The left is not anti-war, they are anti-stupid war.

Of course the left is pro-war and pro-stupid. Just like the right.

Time for a do over.

Trump is clueless on what comes next. Before too much more time passes this will become clear even to you.

Must you repeat everything the DNCMSM tell you?

It gets old quickly. Try to come up with something original.

The right is scrambling to make this make sense. You can't do it, no one can do it because we do not know why Trump made such a reckless move. Until those answers arise just accept that you will have to defend the indefensible. Prepare yourself for the possibility Trump was blackmailed.

Reckless. LOL. Pulling out 50 soldiers is reckless.

What did you say when Ears bugged out of Iraq, removing far more troops? Oh I know. You said nothing because your media sources loved Ears unconditionally.

So you deflect to a different situation? The withdrawal from Iraq was negotiated by GWB before Obama came in and was deemed necessary for several reasons that at least made some sense such as our exhausted military, the cost and the need to respect the newly granted national sovereignty of Iraq. In hindsight it may not have been a good move but it was by no means sudden and inexplicable.

 

[gipper]

Of course the left is pro-war and pro-stupid. Just like the right.

Time for a do over.

Trump is clueless on what comes next. Before too much more time passes this will become clear even to you.

Must you repeat everything the DNCMSM tell you?

It gets old quickly. Try to come up with something original.

The right is scrambling to make this make sense. You can't do it, no one can do it because we do not know why Trump made such a reckless move. Until those answers arise just accept that you will have to defend the indefensible. Prepare yourself for the possibility Trump was blackmailed.

Reckless. LOL. Pulling out 50 soldiers is reckless.

What did you say when Ears bugged out of Iraq, removing far more troops? Oh I know. You said nothing because your media sources loved Ears unconditionally.

So you deflect to a different situation? The withdrawal from Iraq was negotiated by GWB before Obama came in and was deemed necessary for several reasons that at least made some sense such as our exhausted military, the cost and the need to respect the newly granted national sovereignty of Iraq. In hindsight it may not have been a good move but it was by no means sudden and inexplicable.

LOL

Yes, we know Ears is the Messiah.

 

[Lesh]

Anyone who claims that what Trump did in Syria was anything less than impulsive and reckless (at best) is lying

I still want to know why he did it. What does he owe Erdogan? What does Erdogan have on him?

 

[occupied]

Anyone who claims that what Trump did in Syria was anything less than impulsive and reckless (at best) is lying

I still want to know why he did it. What does he owe Erdogan? What does Erdogan have on him?

What does Putin have on him is the question. His fingerprints are all over this mess.

 

[beagle9]

Of course the left is pro-war and pro-stupid. Just like the right.

Time for a do over.

Trump is clueless on what comes next. Before too much more time passes this will become clear even to you.

Must you repeat everything the DNCMSM tell you?

It gets old quickly. Try to come up with something original.

The right is scrambling to make this make sense. You can't do it, no one can do it because we do not know why Trump made such a reckless move. Until those answers arise just accept that you will have to defend the indefensible. Prepare yourself for the possibility Trump was blackmailed.

Reckless. LOL. Pulling out 50 soldiers is reckless.

What did you say when Ears bugged out of Iraq, removing far more troops? Oh I know. You said nothing because your media sources loved Ears unconditionally.

So you deflect to a different situation? The withdrawal from Iraq was negotiated by GWB before Obama came in and was deemed necessary for several reasons that at least made some sense such as our exhausted military, the cost and the need to respect the newly granted national sovereignty of Iraq. In hindsight it may not have been a good move but it was by no means sudden and inexplicable.

Wasn't a good move, because Obama was wrecklace and ignorant.

 

[beagle9]

Anyone who claims that what Trump did in Syria was anything less than impulsive and reckless (at best) is lying

I still want to know why he did it. What does he owe Erdogan? What does Erdogan have on him?

What does Putin have on him is the question. His fingerprints are all over this mess.

Go to the conspiracy forum if want to wildly speculate in conspirital ways.

 

[occupied]

Anyone who claims that what Trump did in Syria was anything less than impulsive and reckless (at best) is lying

I still want to know why he did it. What does he owe Erdogan? What does Erdogan have on him?

What does Putin have on him is the question. His fingerprints are all over this mess.

Go to the conspiracy forum if want to wildly speculate in conspirital ways.

It is not speculation to see that Putin is the only person in the world that Trump is afraid to trash talk.

 

[beagle9]

Anyone who claims that what Trump did in Syria was anything less than impulsive and reckless (at best) is lying

I still want to know why he did it. What does he owe Erdogan? What does Erdogan have on him?

What does Putin have on him is the question. His fingerprints are all over this mess.

Go to the conspiracy forum if want to wildly speculate in conspirital ways.

It is not speculation to see that Putin is the only person in the world that Trump is afraid to trash talk.

You mean not trash talk at the level in which the left wants him too, and only in hopes he would shoot himself in his foot.

 

[gipper]

Of course the left is pro-war and pro-stupid. Just like the right.

Time for a do over.

Trump is clueless on what comes next. Before too much more time passes this will become clear even to you.

Must you repeat everything the DNCMSM tell you?

It gets old quickly. Try to come up with something original.

The right is scrambling to make this make sense. You can't do it, no one can do it because we do not know why Trump made such a reckless move. Until those answers arise just accept that you will have to defend the indefensible. Prepare yourself for the possibility Trump was blackmailed.

Reckless. LOL. Pulling out 50 soldiers is reckless.

What did you say when Ears bugged out of Iraq, removing far more troops? Oh I know. You said nothing because your media sources loved Ears unconditionally.

So you deflect to a different situation? The withdrawal from Iraq was negotiated by GWB before Obama came in and was deemed necessary for several reasons that at least made some sense such as our exhausted military, the cost and the need to respect the newly granted national sovereignty of Iraq. In hindsight it may not have been a good move but it was by no means sudden and inexplicable.

Trump’s removal wasn’t sudden or inexplicable. He said many months ago he planned to leave Syria. You don’t know this because CNN lied to you. Seek real news sources.

 

[mudwhistle]

you can lie or minimize the numbers of troops removed...but what you can't do is lie about the EFFECT that removing them was a Kurdish invasion that will re-empower ISIS and screw our Kurdish allies

It will also destabilize the ME

And why?

To "bring home" 28 troops? Newsflash...not even THAT happened. They were re positioned...they're still there. No troops were brought home and thousands more were sent to Saudi Arabia

It would be nice if you knew what the Hell you were talking about.