Vermont Volleyball Team Banned From Their Locker Room...

[Lisa558]

This all could be solved by one rule:

People born biological males cannot compete on girls’ sports teams, or against individual girls when the sport is individual (like running or swimming).

 

[Bob Blaylock]

This all could be solved by one rule:

People born biological males cannot compete on girls’ sports teams, or against individual girls when the sport is individual (like running or swimming).

Nor should they be allowed to intrude into women's/girls' locker rooms, restrooms, dressing rooms, or other similar private spaces.

For men to compete against women in most sports, on the basis of claiming to be “trans women”, is just plain cheating.

And for them to intrude into women's private spaces is sexual harassment/abuse.

 

[Lisa558]

Nor should they be allowed to intrude into women's/girls' locker rooms, restrooms, dressing rooms, or other similar private spaces.

For men to compete against women in most sports, on the basis of claiming to be “trans women”, is just plain cheating.

And for them to intrude into women's private spaces is sexual harassment/abuse.

And the irony is that most of these “boys-to-girls” can‘t compete against boys. They are not impressive in their sport at all. Only when they compete against girls who have lower muscle mass and lesser lung capacity do they have a chance.

I took tennis lessons from a local kid when we both were around 20 years old, when Chris Evert was in her heyday. He had won some regional competitions but never had what it took to move onto the national stage. He lived winters in Ft. Lauderdale next door to Chris Evert, and he told me that the two of them would play just for fun.

I asked this boy, whom nobody outside the local region ever heard of, whether he was ever able to beat her. His answer: she was never able to beat HIM (although she did occasionally win a set).

And THAT shows the advantage a biological male has over a female.

 

[martybegan]

Uh, sorry, guy. It's hardly absurd. Within my lifetime, it was illegal for people of different races to marry in this country. Jim Crow existed until the 1960's. It wasn't too long ago that Jews weren't allowed to join country clubs... even rich celebrities. There's the famous story about how a hotel wouldn't let Groucho Marx use the pool because he was Jewish, so he asked if his daughter could go into the pool up to her waist because she was half-Jewish. Or the story about how dancer Josephine Baker used a hotel's pool, and the hotel drained the pool because, "eek" it had a black person in it.

The absurdity is that we catered to the bigots instead of simply being fair to everyone.



By lows, you mean, people you don't approve of getting the same access to fair treatment that white, straight, cisgendered males get?

Yes, 10 years ago, people like you were horrified that gays got equal treatment. 22 years ago, I had a gay coworker who was fired from her job because the managers found out she was gay. (Although that was because she brought her girlfriend to the company Christmas Party.)

50 years ago, people were horrified that women could get into the workplace and join the military!

60 years ago, people were horrified that black people could ride on the back of the bus.

Since you are obsessed with my sex life, Bob, I am currently dating a Chinese-American woman (about my age). I lived with a Hispanic woman for 13 years. It once would have been a crime in parts of this country for us to date or marry or have sex.

Societal norms change... especially when you can't find any good reason for them other than your own bigotry.




I'm wondering how many people said that about Jews when you entered the mainstream? In fact, when Rahm Emmanuel became mayor of Chicago, I had a co-worker say to me that he never thought a Jew should become mayor. (That's what an ACTUAL anti-Semite looks like, not someone who criticizes Israel and thinks religion is silly.)

Race isn't the same as sexuality.

 

[Canon Shooter]

Why was this moved to the "Education" forum?

That doesn't make a great deal of sense. Yes, it's about a high school sports team, but it's not about education.

And especially since it's been posted for almost an entire month...

 

[hadit]

He's complaining. "Girls aren't getting naked. It's harassment. I have a civil right to look at naked girls."


Interestingly, the girls gave up complaining about a boy flopping his penis in their faces. They are just refusing to strip for his pleasure. Instead they take turns in one stall toilet, leaving the boy with the entire locker room for his use. That he's complaining only means he is only interested in naked girls. Instructor's will just have to get used to girls being late. It's the price the instructors have to pay for trans rights.

Seriously, why can't he arrive 10 minutes early, get dressed and go out into the gym? Then the girls could get ready in peace. He's causing the disruption, why can't he be inconvenienced instead of them?

 

[hadit]

So now, it's “bigotry” to suppose that teenage girls ought to be able to dress, undress, and shower in a women's locker room, without some creepy, disgusting male pervert leering at them while they do so?

One of the things of which you are fond of falsely accusing me of is misogyny; but you really cannot get more misogynistic than wishing for women and girls to be thus deprived of basic modesty, privacy, and safety; in order to pander to some mentally- and morally-fucked-up freak.

All must be sacrificed on the altar of the current political correctness fad.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Seriously, why can't he arrive 10 minutes early, get dressed and go out into the gym? Then the girls could get ready in peace. He's causing the disruption, why can't he be inconvenienced instead of them?

Common sense goes out the window once the woke take charge.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Why was this moved to the "Education" forum?

That doesn't make a great deal of sense. Yes, it's about a high school sports team, but it's not about education.

And especially since it's been posted for almost an entire month...

I think it was merged with another thread.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Seriously, why can't he arrive 10 minutes early, get dressed and go out into the gym? Then the girls could get ready in peace. He's causing the disruption, why can't he be inconvenienced instead of them?

He shouldn't even be using the girls' locker room, period. His fucked-up mental delusions notwithstanding, he's a boy, not a girl. He should be using the boys' locker room.

 

[Mac-7]

I'd quit if it were me.

For some of the players they could be throwing away a college scholarship

 

[Seymour Flops]

For some of the players they could be throwing away a college scholarship

They should grab the scholarships while they can. It won't be long before "womens" college sports are just a race to load the line ups with as many biological males as each college can recruit.

Yes, the girls will have to subject themselves to humiliating sexual harassment to succeed but that is nothing new for Democrats. They have taught that lesson since the Clinton administration.

 

[FA_Q2]

The suicide rate does not change for people who have the surgery compared to people who do not. Self-acceptance is what people who feel transgender need, and the hormones and the surgery only reinforce their idea that their in the "wrong" body.

Link.

I see this claim a lot. I never see it backed up. Considering that this is a massive and 100 percent objective measure, I would think that it would be much out there a LOT more than it is. Which is usually an indication that the fact is false or it is taken out of context.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Link.

I see this claim a lot. I never see it backed up. Considering that this is a massive and 100 percent objective measure, I would think that it would be much out there a LOT more than it is. Which is usually an indication that the fact is false or it is taken out of context.

Understandable.

I notice that Democrats on here virtually never post links to back up scientific claims, or when they do it is a non-scientific publication. So I get non-Democrats being tired of posting scientific links only to have them ignored by Dems who call them names instead of posting scientific links in rebuttal.

But I have a lot of patience. And I give people a chance. So, here's some science for you:

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden

Context The treatment for transsexualism is sex reassignment, including hormonal treatment and surgery aimed at making the person's body as congruent with the opposite sex as possible. There is a dearth of long term, follow-up studies after sex reassignment. Objective To estimate mortality...

journals.plos.org

Those who claim that encouraging kids to be openly transgender is a way to prevent suicide should pay heed to this:

https://queeramnesty.ch/docs/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

If those people seriously want to reduce transgender suicide, they should look at these results:

What's missing from that list of factors that reduce suicide and suicidal ideation among transgenders?

Hormones and scalpals.

Why? Because it is a scientific study, not an article in the Rolling Stone Magazine. They can't just say that not giving kids hormones and surgeries will drive them to suicide, because that is not science.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Understandable.

I notice that Democrats on here virtually never post links to back up scientific claims, or when they do it is a non-scientific publication. So I get non-Democrats being tired of posting scientific links only to have them ignored by Dems who call them names instead of posting scientific links in rebuttal.

But I have a lot of patience. And I give people a chance. So, here's some science for you:

View attachment 719095

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden

Context The treatment for transsexualism is sex reassignment, including hormonal treatment and surgery aimed at making the person's body as congruent with the opposite sex as possible. There is a dearth of long term, follow-up studies after sex reassignment. Objective To estimate mortality...

journals.plos.org

Those who claim that encouraging kids to be openly transgender is a way to prevent suicide should pay heed to this:

View attachment 719112

https://queeramnesty.ch/docs/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

If those people seriously want to reduce transgender suicide, they should look at these results:

View attachment 719114
What's missing from that list of factors that reduce suicide and suicidal ideation among transgenders?

Hormones and scalpals.

Why? Because it is a scientific study, not an article in the Rolling Stone Magazine. They can't just say that not giving kids hormones and surgeries will drive them to suicide, because that is not science.

Nothing surprising, there. To believe in “transgenderism” is to reject science, completely, to repudiate science, and to replace it with a bizarre, twisted mockery of science.

 

[FA_Q2]

Understandable.

I notice that Democrats on here virtually never post links to back up scientific claims, or when they do it is a non-scientific publication. So I get non-Democrats being tired of posting scientific links only to have them ignored by Dems who call them names instead of posting scientific links in rebuttal.

But I have a lot of patience. And I give people a chance. So, here's some science for you:

View attachment 719095

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden

Context The treatment for transsexualism is sex reassignment, including hormonal treatment and surgery aimed at making the person's body as congruent with the opposite sex as possible. There is a dearth of long term, follow-up studies after sex reassignment. Objective To estimate mortality...

journals.plos.org

Yes, transgender people have massive risks for suicide. Nowhere has anyone suggested that sex reassignment will reduce that risk to that of the general population. There is, literally, nothing you can do to make that happen. The question is whether or not the surgeries will reduce suicide ideation in transgender population in relation to those that do not undergo the surgery.

Which is something your study does not seem to even attempt to analyze. It looks to me more like the study was centered on analyzing if gender reassignment and other factors would successfully treat suicide ideation. They find that it is insufficient.

Not really surprised there. But, lets remember the claim:

'The suicide rate does not change for people who have the surgery compared to people who do not.

Your study has nothing to do with that charge. It does point out the very real problem that surgery or hormones clearly are not enough. Cant really argue there.

Further, the study itself mentions that it is not a solid finding as there is not enough data out there. This is a major problem because the trend is not all that old and gathering accurate data not only takes time but takes following those that have undergone said surgeries. And then there is the fact that there are several barriers that need to be overcome just because the nature of the question at hand. Most notably the inability for this to be subjected to a double blinded study. That is just flatly impossible.

From your link:
"Data is inconsistent with respect to psychiatric morbidity post sex reassignment. Although many studies have reported psychiatric and psychological improvement after hormonal and/or surgical treatment,[7], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16] other have reported on regrets,[17] psychiatric morbidity, and suicide attempts after SRS.[9], [18] A recent systematic review and meta-analysis concluded that approximately 80% reported subjective improvement in terms of gender dysphoria, quality of life, and psychological symptoms, but also that there are studies reporting high psychiatric morbidity and suicide rates after sex reassignment.[19] The authors concluded though that the evidence base for sex reassignment “is of very low quality due to the serious methodological limitations of included studies.”

The methodological shortcomings have many reasons. First, the nature of sex reassignment precludes double blind randomized controlled studies of the result. Second, transsexualism is rare [20] and many follow-ups are hampered by small numbers of subjects.[5], [8], [21], [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], [27], [28] Third, many sex reassigned persons decline to participate in follow-up studies, or relocate after surgery, resulting in high drop-out rates and consequent selection bias.[6], [9], [12], [21], [24], [28], [29], [30] Forth, several follow-up studies are hampered by limited follow-up periods.[7], [9], [21], [22], [26], [30] Taken together, these limitations preclude solid and generalisable conclusions. A long-term population-based controlled study is one way to address these methodological shortcomings."

Those who claim that encouraging kids to be openly transgender is a way to prevent suicide should pay heed to this:

View attachment 719112

This is not something I was challenging. I was challenging the claim above. "Encouraging children to be openly transgender" has noting to do with the validity of the claim. Indeed, the validity of the claim effects this statement not the other way around.

If those people seriously want to reduce transgender suicide, they should look at these results:

View attachment 719114
What's missing from that list of factors that reduce suicide and suicidal ideation among transgenders?

Hormones and scalpals.

Why? Because it is a scientific study, not an article in the Rolling Stone Magazine. They can't just say that not giving kids hormones and surgeries will drive them to suicide, because that is not science.

?
"as was completing a medical transition through hormones and/or surgeries (when needed)"

Dude, it is right there in your own quote on line 5. Did you read it? It directly states 'hormones and scalpels' as you stated it are associated with a 'large relative and absolute reductions in suicide risk.' That does not support the claim in question.