USMB (Saddleback) Forum Question

[CA95380]

This was one of the questions asked during the Saddleback Church Forum of both Obama, and McCain about 'teachers'.

I would really like to hear your opinion, on the question asked of Obama and McCain, please.

Q. OKAY LET'S GO TO EDUCATION. AMERICA RIGHT NOW RANKS 19TH IN HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION. WE'RE FIRST IN INCARCERATIONS. 80 PERCENT OF AMERICANS RECENT POLE SAID THEY BELIEVE IN MERIT PAY FOR TEACHERS. I'M NOT ASKING DO YOU THINK ALL TEACHERS SHOULD GET A RAISE. DO YOU THINK BETTER TEACHERS SHOULD BE PAID BETTER. THEY SHOULD BE MADE MORE THAN POOR TEACHERS?



I found this transcript and I think this is how the question was asked, (not sure of the last sentence)

http://www.rickwarrennews.com/transcript/civil_forum_transcript-02.txt (This question can be found on this link)

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't recall the last sentence. The answer for McCain was that the best way to help out education in America was to make it competitive and allow people the freedom to choose where they want to send their children to school. He pointed out that New Orleans was being re-structured in this way since it was devastated, and it has been a huge success.

I honestly can't remember what Obama said to it. He didn't really have much to say about anything that was memorable.

 

[CA95380]

Sorry .... Allie .... I am asking your opinion and the opinion of others here on the board. Thanks

 

[random3434]

Copy and Pasted from the Transcipt:

Q. OKAY LET'S GO TO EDUCATION. AMERICA RIGHT NOW

23 RANKS 19TH IN HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION. WE'RE FIRST IN

24 INCARCERATIONS.

25 A. NOT GOOD.

1 Q. NOT GOOD. 80 PERCENT OF AMERICANS RECENT POLE

2 SAID THEY BELIEVE IN MERIT PAY FOR TEACHERS. I'M NOT

3 ASKING DO YOU THINK ALL TEACHERS SHOULD GET A RAISE.

4 DO YOU THINK BETTER TEACHERS SHOULD BE PAID BETTER.

5 THEY SHOULD BE MADE MORE THAN POOR TEACHERS?

6 A. I THINK THAT WE SHOULD, AND I'VE SAID THIS

7 PUBLICLY. THAT WE SHOULD SAID UP A SYSTEM OF

8 PERFORMANCE PAY FOR TEACHERS NEGOTIATED WITH TEACHERS,

9 WORKED WITH THE TEACHERS TO FIGURE OUT THE ASSESSMENT

10 SO THEY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE BEING JUDGED FAIRLY THAT IT

11 IS NOT A THE WHIM OF THE PRINCIPAL THAT IS IT NOT BASED

12 ON A SINGLE HIGH TESTS, BUT THE BASIC NOTION THAT

13 TEACHING IS A PROFESSION, THAT TEACHERS ARE UNDERPAID

14 SO WE NEED TO PAY THEM ALL MORE AND CREATE A HIGHER

15 BASE LINE BUT THEN WE SHOULD ALSO REWARD EXCELLENCE. I

16 THINK THAT IS A CONCEPT THAT ALL OF US SHOULD EMBRACE.]

Now, my answer is:

How do you really judge a good teacher? What about parent involvement? If the parents don't care about education, their kids aren't going to care 95% of the time. What about special needs kids? A lot of them will never pass the SAT.


Working with teachers to provide some kind of assessment is good. But then the union would get involved, and all hell would break loose. (yes, I'm anti-union)

 

[CA95380]

lol .... again what I am trying to do is get opinions of others here on the USMB forum?

I remember both of them mentioning vouchers and home schooling. What is your take, Echo .... as a teacher ... about these?

 

[AllieBaba]

My opinion is that Obama, as usual, blathered on and on and really didn't say anything of substance. Other than he thinks we should throw money at teachers. He's big on throwing money at problems...and taking it from areas where it's needed.

 

[CA95380]

My opinion is that Obama, as usual, blathered on and on and really didn't say anything of substance. Other than he thinks we should throw money at teachers. He's big on throwing money at problems...and taking it from areas where it's needed.

Ok, fair enough. One opinion counted, thanks

 

[AllieBaba]

Oh, and I agree with McCain. Competition. Obviously throwing more money at teachers isn't getting us anywhere.

 

[CA95380]

Copy and Pasted from the Transcipt:

Now, my answer is:

How do you really judge a good teacher? What about parent involvement? If the parents don't care about education, their kids aren't going to care 95% of the time. What about special needs kids? A lot of them will never pass the SAT.


Working with teachers to provide some kind of assessment is good. But then the union would get involved, and all hell would break loose. (yes, I'm anti-union)

Good points, Echo. But I would still like to hear your thoughts on home schooling, vouchers?

 

[random3434]

lol .... again what I am trying to do is get opinions of others here on the USMB forum?

I remember both of them mentioning vouchers and home schooling. What is your take, Echo .... as a teacher ... about these?

Well, home schooling is a choice a lot of parents are making these days. What worries me is, are these parents really qualified to teach their kids all they need to know? Some are, some aren't.

Vouchers, eh...I teach in an inner-city public school with over 700 elementary students in one of the poorest areas in Indianapolis. Yet our test scores (the ISTEP) are some of the highest in our county. We have dedicated teachers, some that have been there over 25 years. Our building is strong, the teachers care about the students, and take pride in our school.
Are other public schools like this? I don't know. But I don't feel vouchers to take kids out of a public school to be put in a private school is going to solve any education problems that may have been there anyway.

If the teachers and the students work together, anything is possible!

 

[AllieBaba]

Unless you happen to be living in a school district where the school is crappy and/or dangerous.

I think all Americans should be able to choose where their kids go to school. They should not be forced by the government to attend a certain school. It is the law that children attend school...but the parents should get to decide where, instead of being forced to subject their children to substandard schooling because that happens to be the school in their district.

 

[random3434]

Unless you happen to be living in a school district where the school is crappy and/or dangerous.

I think all Americans should be able to choose where their kids go to school. They should not be forced by the government to attend a certain school. It is the law that children attend school...but the parents should get to decide where, instead of being forced to subject their children to substandard schooling because that happens to be the school in their district.

Why alli, that sounds just like what the Libertarians say!


So who is going to pay for all that transportation if you want to send little Emma and Justin crosstown to a "better" school. I would LOVE to send my 13 year old to a girls school sometimes, but Indiana doesn't have any.

Should the government pay for me to send her to one somewhere that does have one? If so, SIGN ME UP!

 

[random3434]

Unless you happen to be living in a school district where the school is crappy and/or dangerous.

Uh, where I teach has some of the highest crime rate in the city.


The last 2 years I have had 100% parent turn out for PIT. (Parents In Touch)

The parents for the most part want to be involved, though not all. But they want something better for their kids than what they have, and they realize a good education is the key to that.

 

[AllieBaba]

I didn't say your school was bad. But there are bad schools, and they aren't just in the inner cities, and parents should be able to send their kids elsewhere if they so desire.

 

[CA95380]

Well, home schooling is a choice a lot of parents are making these days. What worries me is, are these parents really qualified to teach their kids all they need to know? Some are, some aren't.

Reason I am asking. I am afraid that there are people that may be attemping to teach their kids that have no clue what they are doing. Do they get 'vouchers' (for lack of knowing the right term to use) for teaching at home, now?

Vouchers, eh...I teach in an inner-city public school with over 700 elementary students in one of the poorest areas in Indianapolis. Yet our test scores (the ISTEP) are some of the highest in our county. We have dedicated teachers, some that have been there over 25 years. Our building is strong, the teachers care about the students, and take pride in our school.
Are other public schools like this? I don't know. But I don't feel vouchers to take kids out of a public school to be put in a private school is going to solve any education problems that may have been there anyway.

I think the school and schools like where you teach are different. My opionion only. I don't know that vouchers or home schooling would or even should be a choice. As I said ... MO.

If the teachers and the students work together, anything is possible!

I agree totally ... when our kids were young I think we took more interest in what was going on. But then I could be wrong here too.

 

[CA95380]

Unless you happen to be living in a school district where the school is crappy and/or dangerous.

Excatly! This is my point, too.

I think all Americans should be able to choose where their kids go to school. They should not be forced by the government to attend a certain school. It is the law that children attend school...but the parents should get to decide where, instead of being forced to subject their children to substandard schooling because that happens to be the school in their district.

I agree within reason. But as Echo mentioned ... bussing is a BIG problem and a BIG expense.

 

[Angel Heart]

I'm for putting the power in the hands of the parents. Start giving tax deductions for homeschooling supplies. Providing more charters. Putting something like what Head Start has in place. Policy Council is a major aspect in making Head Start work. Policy Council is a governing body that holds joint governance of local Head Starts. All key decisions are made by the PC. From who to hire to buying of new books. We sit in on most interviews of possable new hires. We are not talking PTO/PTA we're talking we make the votes on it. We are elected out of the parents to serve on the council.

Well if you want to know more, feel free to ask. I need to hurry out the door to this months Policy Council meeting. BTW I'm on my last year (3yrs only) and I'm the current chairperson for the Council.

 

[CA95380]

Angel .... I am looking forward to more of your input in this. Thanks

I like the Head Start program. And I honestly do not know if it has changed over the years .... so I am asking ... is it still for low income families only? Because I honestly do believe it does give a child a head start and if it is like it used to be ... it was smaller classes?

 

[Angel Heart]

Well, home schooling is a choice a lot of parents are making these days. What worries me is, are these parents really qualified to teach their kids all they need to know? Some are, some aren't.

Vouchers, eh...I teach in an inner-city public school with over 700 elementary students in one of the poorest areas in Indianapolis. Yet our test scores (the ISTEP) are some of the highest in our county. We have dedicated teachers, some that have been there over 25 years. Our building is strong, the teachers care about the students, and take pride in our school.
Are other public schools like this? I don't know. But I don't feel vouchers to take kids out of a public school to be put in a private school is going to solve any education problems that may have been there anyway.

If the teachers and the students work together, anything is possible!

How many actual homeschooling families do you know? Or is this another thought of they let's right laws base on the lowest common denominator? Most parents are perfectly capable to educate their kids... Only reason they aren't is due to people like you saying they can't and they now believe it.

Some actual data for ya:

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/comp2001/HomeSchoolAchievement.pdf

I have home schooled 3 of my children for a year and 1 of them for 2 yrs. They went back in at the same academic levels and now have a BETTER understanding of what the real world is like. They learned that education doesn't just happen in a classroom but can happen anywhere you are. They understand life is no more than one huge classroom.

 

[Angel Heart]

Angel .... I am looking forward to more of your input in this. Thanks

I like the Head Start program. And I honestly do not know if it has changed over the years .... so I am asking ... is it still for low income families only? Because I honestly do believe it does give a child a head start and if it is like it used to be ... it was smaller classes?

Depends on what state...

Oh man... I would love to chat with you more about this... I have to be at the meeting ahead of time and it starts in 20.

Post a list of questions and I'll knock them out one at a time .