US Needs To Create Non-Computer Back-Ups for Utilities

[Skylar]

The system is so much more complicated today than it ever was when you were growing up. The idea that its all gonna be controlled now by legions of dudes pulling levers and cranking gears in perfect unison across multiple states by the thousands.....is pure, blissful ignorance.

You old conservative men have this bizarro fantasy that everything can be made simple because you find the modern world confusing or overwhelming.

Yeah, your confusion doesn't define the limits of our technology, boomer.

Sorry, I don't buy your doom scenario one iota, and I'm no the slightest bit confused. I see NO REASON whatsoever why utilities could not once again be run as they were for decades previously, and if there is any particular reason, you haven't posted it here. I challenged you to post detail of your claim. You failed to do that.

Your posting is a lot of nothing, which makes no sense. Nothing could be easier than doing things without computers. Everything is already in place - plumbing systems, electrical grid, traffic lights, etc. All you do is remove the computer component. Duh!

Funny how young people oddly think computers are necessary for these things...or maybe you're in the computer industry, and starting to feel a bit threatened. Don't be. We're talking about backing up our essential utilities, that's all. Hard to see how anybody could be opposed to this. Don't sell your stocks. View attachment 501859

What 'doom' are you talking about? We have developed systems that are sufficiently complex that they require computer to control them. We need to shore up our computer infrastructure to prevent the hacks.

The idea that we're gonna just turn dials and crank nobs to run these hugely vast and complicated systems makes no more sense than insisting that you can 'manually' run your cars fuel injection system by pushing buttons on your dash with each piston reset.

Its happening too fast, with too many moving parts for that to be feasible in virtually any modern car. Its the same for our infrastructure. We're way, way past carburetors.

You imagine the system is simple because you don't understand its complexity. Its the most conservative thing about you.

 

[d0gbreath]

The places being targeted for ransomware attacks probably did their last server updates for Y2K. When you make it easy, you go down.

 

[protectionist]

What 'doom' are you talking about? We have developed systems that are sufficiently complex that they require computer to control them. We need to shore up our computer infrastructure to prevent the hacks.

The idea that we're gonna just turn dials and crank nobs to run these hugely vast and complicated systems makes no more sense than insisting that you can 'manually' run your cars fuel injection system by pushing buttons on your dash with each piston reset.

Its happening too fast, with too many moving parts for that to be feasible in virtually any modern car. Its the same for our infrastructure. We're way, way past carburetors.

You imagine the system is simple because you don't understand its complexity. Its the most conservative thing about you.

YOU don't understand the simplicity. To say that things couldn't be done as they WERE DONE for 100 years, is bizarre. Young people are farther out into the fringe than I ever thought possible. Simply revert back to how we did things. Duh!

And you still have not met my challenge to show how a water treatment plant, a power plant, a phone system is so complex. And who cares how complex it is ?...(IF it is). If necessary, just ditch that, and go back the the pre-computer methodology - and we should be doing that right now, to have these as back-ups if/when our computer controlled systems crash.

Colonial Pipeline didn't have to give in to the ransomsarers. If they had backed up with precomputer technology, they could have kept on going right along.

 

[my2¢]

Operational SCADA systems that control such things as turning on/off valves shouldn't be connected to the internet. Just like voting machines.

 

[Thinker101]

We just had 2 serious ransomware attacks in America. First the Colonial pipeline, with a multimillion $$ ransom paid to the cyber attackers. Then came an attack on JBS, the world’s largest meat processing company. All JBS-fed beef plants and regional beef plants were shut down.

It is bad enough that international cyber criminals are staging these attacks, and causing havoc among private companies, but what about terrorists ? These could be individuals, terrorist organizations, or even unfriendly countries. And what if the targets they hit are essential utilities like the electrical grid, dams, water treatment and sewage plants, traffic lights, telephone and other communications systems ?

Should we be living with question marks pertaining to things we fundamentally need, to function as a society ? The reason why we are in this mess, which is getting worse as time goes by, is that in recent years we have connected all these essential utilities to computer systems, and made them be reliant that way.

What the US needs to do is have non-computer systems operational, like those that existed for decades before computers even existed. I hope this doesn't come as a shock to anyone, but all our essential utilities functioned nationwide, completely without the help of a single computer. Two world wars were fought without any computers in use.

In the wake of the Colonial Pipeline attack, Biden issued an executive order calling for an upgrade to the federal government’s way of handling cybersecurity. He also created a new Cybersecurity Safety Review Board, led by a private-sector representative and the Department of Homeland Security, that would produce reports on cyberattacks, after the fact.

While these moves are helpful, they only address security from a computer controlled context, which if nothing is done apart from that, won't the whole country still be in serious danger of major shutdowns of just about everything ? Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi are well old enough to remember the days before computers, when everything worked, and nobody had any worries about ransomware attacks.
It is time for these old systems to re-emerge, and provide back-ups to our current systems.

White House: Ransomware attack on major meat processing company 'likely' from Russia

The Biden administration is “assessing” any potential impacts on supply, the White House said on Tuesday.

www.politico.com

You may have a point, but don't feel it really matters. Slow Joe would hand it over to those that would attack us.

Biden Actually Gave Putin a List of Critical Infrastructure Not to Carry Out Cyberattacks on in US

 

[Rigby5]

There is nothing wrong with using computer system to control things because they are cheaper then specialized one off controllers.
That is not the problem.
The problem is there is no reason to have it connected to an external network with internet access.
Either leave out the ethernet connection, or only connect it to a private local area network.
Easy to fix.
Anyone who connects to the internet is asking for trouble.

 

[Rigby5]

IMHO In most cases It would be cheaper (and quicker) just to take the necessary steps to secure and provide redundancy for the computer controlled systems that are already in place.

I suspect that for many private companies, adding manual backup systems to all vulnerable infrastructure would be prohibitively expensive to build and maintain and would end posing to secure and

Biden's plans already include steps to secure computer controlled systems already in place. As for your suspicion of an unfavorable risk-reward proposition, regarding non-computer systems, this is based on what ?

It’s based on the fact that companies DON’T DO IT, if it was a FAVORABLE risk-reward proposition they’d already be doing it, given that’s the basis for business decisions.

Unless of course you believe that businesses haven’t already looked at the particulars of adding manual back up systems, which seems a pretty far fetched theory given that I’m in the business of building computer based systems and that particular question is one that is always looked at whenever it’s a possibility.

You miss the point.
Manual back up is not practical since you have to have the system respond to multiple event at any time.
But you could make a special purpose component that could do that.
However, as a very special one off, it would cost too much.
And there no need.
The problem is not the generic computer.
It is lack security to ever allow a valuable computer to be in the internet, where anyone can easily hack it.
If nothing else, any computer on the internet can be drown with constant denial of service attacks.
So the solution is to just not connect an ethernet cable to it.
You can put it on a local network if you want multiple computers to share.
But just no internet.